Greetings, Once one has found a grave how does one find out who is buried there? I have a "Whelton" grave in Peabody Mass with lots of folks listed and problably some who are not. I wrote to the archdiocese and they were too busy to reply. I called the church and they said to write to the archdiocese....any thoughts?? All the best, Mary Ellen from beautiful warm and sunny San Francisco searching for the Wheltons of Clonakilty, the Horrigans of Killorglin, the McCarthys of Killarney and the O'Connors of Drumshambo. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Yes Janet, I learned the hard way. For a few years I had the plot bought by my gggrandfather with his first and second wife, her sister and husband buried there but no sign anywhere in New York of him. He was not listed in the plot. Finally I found him in a city census and went year by year for 4 years until I found his death and his death certificate told me when he died and with an exact date they found him there with his two wives. Cozy! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:34 AM Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > Well, that's another problem, Beth. Not all ARE on the headstone. In > fact, sometimes very few of them are on there...but they are down > there. > > Janet > > On 9/21/06, Beth Glaser <eaglaser@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> With the cost of headstones being a bit pricy for some it makes sense to >> have one real nice one for an area or family plot and to have all the >> names >> put on the one stone. I've seen that a lot looking for my family in Irish >> Catholic cemeteries in New York. That plus after a certain number of >> years >> because of decomposition you can stack coffins. After finding some of my >> family in New York the care takers there told me 1. I had family there. >> 2. >> There was still room in a few of the family plots. and 3. I owed upkeep >> costs on the plot. If I could show direct relationship to the past owner >> I >> could "move in". I came back to Los Angeles and told my New York husband >> we >> had property right next to where he grew up. He asked about the >> "neighborhood" so I read off a few names and he said it sounded good to >> him. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "kaye vernon" <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> >> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:23 AM >> Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? >> >> >> > well surely they wouldnt all be buried in the same grave........it >> > would >> > be >> > mighty crowded. >> > Kaye >> > www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

well surely they wouldnt all be buried in the same grave........it would be mighty crowded. Kaye www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm ----- Original Message -----

Hello, Listers. I have the information from familysearch.org. John Connolly date of birth 4 Feb 1878, Cork, son of Michael Connolly and Mary Hayes Connolly. The batch is listed as C006341 but I am unable to get that film. Is there anyone who might have access to this and provide more information to me as to how I could get a copy of this birth/baptismal information? Thank you, Linda

Because recent environmental concerns, using concrete enclosures for the grave seems to be now mandated, at least in Limerick city municipal graves. ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Troy" <sbtroy@comcast.net> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:58 PM Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > Wow. I knew we did double-deep here in the US. Hadn't heard about > triple-deep. I know for double-deep, the hole is 12 feet, so triple-deep > would mean an 18 foot hole! > > Related to that, in the US, caskets are placed in cement boxes to prevent > the ground from sinking over time as caskets decay. I know that's a > relatively recent convention, and I was under the impression that it's > required by law, but maybe not. It sounds like in Ireland, there's not > enough space to use the cement boxes--and that they would actually be > counterproductive given that the decay is beneficial since you can bury > more > people as time goes on. > > > On 9/21/06 1:36 PM, "Edward & Toni McCarthy" <efmamcc@msn.com> wrote: > >> Actually, we are doing the exact same thing nowadays in the U.S. My >> sister >> purchased a plot in PA (outside Phil.) abt. 2 years ago and was told they >> are now going 3 deep so for 1 headstone there are 9 spots. With that she >> has room for her immediate family. >> >> Toni >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Janet Crawford >> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:52 AM >> To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? >> >> Yes, Hilary. The graves are dug deeper here than they would be in the >> states so that they can hold more people. >> >> Janet >> >> On 9/21/06, Moonshadow242@aol.com <Moonshadow242@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>> In a message dated 9/21/2006 9:54:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> padraigogealagain@rogers.com writes: >>> >>> Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, >>> what >>> does the term mean >>> >>> >>> >>> I had always understood that after a certain period of years (not sure >>> how >>> long), more bodies can be buried in a grave (even one that is considered >>> "full"), because of the natural decomposition and settling. I think >>> they >> do that >>> even in some cemeteries here in the US -- but Ireland has been settled >> for a >>> lot longer than the US, so wouldn't that mean that a single grave could >> hold >>> a large number of people? >>> >>> Hilary

Yes, Hilary. The graves are dug deeper here than they would be in the states so that they can hold more people. Janet On 9/21/06, Moonshadow242@aol.com <Moonshadow242@aol.com> wrote: > > In a message dated 9/21/2006 9:54:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > padraigogealagain@rogers.com writes: > > Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, what > does the term mean > > > > I had always understood that after a certain period of years (not sure how > long), more bodies can be buried in a grave (even one that is considered > "full"), because of the natural decomposition and settling. I think they do that > even in some cemeteries here in the US -- but Ireland has been settled for a > lot longer than the US, so wouldn't that mean that a single grave could hold > a large number of people? > > Hilary > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

All over here, Padraig. Sometimes the grave is reused by another family. Think about it....This is a very small island and millions have died here over the last few centuries, and there are very few graves for all those people. Janet On 9/21/06, Pádraig Mór Ó Gealagain <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: > Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, what > does the term mean > ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** > ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** > > Pádraig Mór, > An Sean Gabhar > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> > To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:36 AM > Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > > > > Kaye and all, It is very common to have 3-4 buried at a time in a > > single grave, one on top of the other. It is also common to recycle > > graves after a time. Yes, they may all have been buried there at one > > time or another. > > > > Janet > > > > On 9/21/06, kaye vernon <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > >> well surely they wouldnt all be buried in the same grave........it would > >> be > >> mighty crowded. > >> Kaye > >> www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am new to the list and where do I look for Matthew Dodd, born Mallow 1836 Father Richard, Mother Honora? Esme Dodd. Esme Dodd esdodd@bigpond.com

The following is only tangentially connected to the Irish cemetery discussion, but I concur that the headstones are not proof of who's buried somewhere. I know that a seller of headstones will consider how many people are expected to go into a plot before deciding how much space can be allotted to the first name that goes on a stone. So if more people get added to the plot than were originally planned, there's not enough room to fit the added names in. Not that I know that such planning went into headstone inscriptions going back hundreds of years ago, but you can see how if there's an unpredictable number of people who can be added to a plot, there's no easy way to plan whose name will go on there. And then there's this issue in my family: My great-aunt had her and her husband's names engraved on the headstone on the plot she intended them to be buried in, which was next to her parents in the cemetery. However, she died before he did, so when it came time to bury her, he said, "We'll be buried with my family." So she was buried in another area of the cemetery, and he joined her a few years later. Their names are on both headstones. No one's gotten around to removing their names from the place where they're not buried. It's pretty expensive to do so, and no one else has needed that space yet. So a name on a headstone doesn't necessarily mean the body's down below. On 9/21/06 2:34 PM, "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, that's another problem, Beth. Not all ARE on the headstone. In > fact, sometimes very few of them are on there...but they are down > there. > > Janet > > On 9/21/06, Beth Glaser <eaglaser@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> With the cost of headstones being a bit pricy for some it makes sense to >> have one real nice one for an area or family plot and to have all the names >> put on the one stone. I've seen that a lot looking for my family in Irish >> Catholic cemeteries in New York. That plus after a certain number of years >> because of decomposition you can stack coffins. After finding some of my >> family in New York the care takers there told me 1. I had family there. 2. >> There was still room in a few of the family plots. and 3. I owed upkeep >> costs on the plot. If I could show direct relationship to the past owner I >> could "move in". I came back to Los Angeles and told my New York husband we >> had property right next to where he grew up. He asked about the >> "neighborhood" so I read off a few names and he said it sounded good to him. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "kaye vernon" <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> >> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:23 AM >> Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? >> >> >>> well surely they wouldnt all be buried in the same grave........it would >>> be >>> mighty crowded. >>> Kaye >>> www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Wow. I knew we did double-deep here in the US. Hadn't heard about triple-deep. I know for double-deep, the hole is 12 feet, so triple-deep would mean an 18 foot hole! Related to that, in the US, caskets are placed in cement boxes to prevent the ground from sinking over time as caskets decay. I know that's a relatively recent convention, and I was under the impression that it's required by law, but maybe not. It sounds like in Ireland, there's not enough space to use the cement boxes--and that they would actually be counterproductive given that the decay is beneficial since you can bury more people as time goes on. On 9/21/06 1:36 PM, "Edward & Toni McCarthy" <efmamcc@msn.com> wrote: > Actually, we are doing the exact same thing nowadays in the U.S. My sister > purchased a plot in PA (outside Phil.) abt. 2 years ago and was told they > are now going 3 deep so for 1 headstone there are 9 spots. With that she > has room for her immediate family. > > Toni > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Janet Crawford > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:52 AM > To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > > Yes, Hilary. The graves are dug deeper here than they would be in the > states so that they can hold more people. > > Janet > > On 9/21/06, Moonshadow242@aol.com <Moonshadow242@aol.com> wrote: >> >> In a message dated 9/21/2006 9:54:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> padraigogealagain@rogers.com writes: >> >> Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, what >> does the term mean >> >> >> >> I had always understood that after a certain period of years (not sure how >> long), more bodies can be buried in a grave (even one that is considered >> "full"), because of the natural decomposition and settling. I think they > do that >> even in some cemeteries here in the US -- but Ireland has been settled > for a >> lot longer than the US, so wouldn't that mean that a single grave could > hold >> a large number of people? >> >> Hilary >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Actually, we are doing the exact same thing nowadays in the U.S. My sister purchased a plot in PA (outside Phil.) abt. 2 years ago and was told they are now going 3 deep so for 1 headstone there are 9 spots. With that she has room for her immediate family. Toni -----Original Message----- From: irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Janet Crawford Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:52 AM To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? Yes, Hilary. The graves are dug deeper here than they would be in the states so that they can hold more people. Janet On 9/21/06, Moonshadow242@aol.com <Moonshadow242@aol.com> wrote: > > In a message dated 9/21/2006 9:54:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > padraigogealagain@rogers.com writes: > > Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, what > does the term mean > > > > I had always understood that after a certain period of years (not sure how > long), more bodies can be buried in a grave (even one that is considered > "full"), because of the natural decomposition and settling. I think they do that > even in some cemeteries here in the US -- but Ireland has been settled for a > lot longer than the US, so wouldn't that mean that a single grave could hold > a large number of people? > > Hilary > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Hilary, I think you're right. I've been hanging on Cork because its listed on all of the documentation from marriage records to census records, etc, but that doesn't necesarily mean they didn't die in Kerry. Hannah I know hung around Detroit until at least 1892. With the approximate dates I have, she would have only been about 57. Her children were grown and married. She could have returned to Ireland. I'm in contact with a brother and sister who are related to my great grandfather's wife, Patrick and Hannah's daughter-in-law and I'm getting their stories bit by bit...you see they remember first hand. She's 98 and he's 103...both spry and computer savvy. Hannah, at least, would have been recent history to them when they were children. Still, can't help wishing that Ouiji boards worked. :-) I know that this is the Cork list but any clues on how to go about checking records in Knockbrack? Should I sign onto the Kerry list? Is there a website? Chris in Muskegon Moonshadow242@aol.com wrote: HI Chris, I have found that birthdates can be problematic, Since your grandfather was closer in time to Patrick and Hannah, and presumably might have heard stories or other information to support that photo, maybe you should at least start by exploring that lead? Can you check records in Knockbrack?

Kaye and all, It is very common to have 3-4 buried at a time in a single grave, one on top of the other. It is also common to recycle graves after a time. Yes, they may all have been buried there at one time or another. Janet On 9/21/06, kaye vernon <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > well surely they wouldnt all be buried in the same grave........it would be > mighty crowded. > Kaye > www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am not 100% sure, but I believe that in Ireland there are instances where they put the death details on the headstone sometimes where people have died elsewhere. I had a few instances where I saw headstones in Ireland where there were a dozen or more names on the one headstone, obviously they were not all in the grave.......so could have easily died elsewhere. Kaye www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARY THOMAS" <coloknight@verizon.net> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > Hi Hilary, > > My grandfather had a photo of a gravestone erected for Patrick and > Hannah. Those were his grandparent's names

Well, I thank God that such as you say didn't happen to my family graves in Cahercorney civil parish, Co. Limerick - the oldest of which is from 1675, and the site is still open for new burials for existing plot owners. In the last few years another plot was opened in land behind the old churchyard for new burials. Recycled - bah, humbug! ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:12 AM Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? All over here, Padraig. Sometimes the grave is reused by another family. Think about it....This is a very small island and millions have died here over the last few centuries, and there are very few graves for all those people. Janet On 9/21/06, Pádraig Mór Ó Gealagain <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: > Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, what > does the term mean > ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** > ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** > > Pádraig Mór, > An Sean Gabhar > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> > To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:36 AM > Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > > > > Kaye and all, It is very common to have 3-4 buried at a time in a > > single grave, one on top of the other. It is also common to recycle > > graves after a time. Yes, they may all have been buried there at one > > time or another. > > > > Janet > > > > On 9/21/06, kaye vernon <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > >> well surely they wouldnt all be buried in the same grave........it > >> would > >> be > >> mighty crowded. > >> Kaye >

HI Chris, I have found that birthdates can be problematic, especially when one is dealing with birthdates reported by someone else (as on a death certificate), or even self reported (as in birthdates given by a woman to the census taker -- because women did lie about their ages). I have a death certificate for my great, great grandfather that I know is the proper certificate, and yet, the birthdate/age given is off by about ten years. Since your grandfather was closer in time to Patrick and Hannah, and presumably might have heard stories or other information to support that photo, maybe you should at least start by exploring that lead? Can you check records in Knockbrack? Good luck! Hilary

In a message dated 9/21/2006 9:54:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, padraigogealagain@rogers.com writes: Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, what does the term mean I had always understood that after a certain period of years (not sure how long), more bodies can be buried in a grave (even one that is considered "full"), because of the natural decomposition and settling. I think they do that even in some cemeteries here in the US -- but Ireland has been settled for a lot longer than the US, so wouldn't that mean that a single grave could hold a large number of people? Hilary

>obviously they were not all in the grave.......so could have easily died >elsewhere> I am aware of only one incidence in Co. Limerick where a party died elsewhere and that fact is so inscribed on the headstone - that was Patrick Dooley who was drowned on the maiden voyage of the Titanic - the grave is in Knockainey. Why would you say 'obviously they were not all...' when firstly it isn't obvious and secondly, how old is the grave? two hundred years , more or less, with the headstone been replaced from time to time and all original inscriptions brought forward on the new stone. In Limerick city municipal cemeteries, there is an environment policy now, where certain graves are closed for more burials for thirty years. In the case of my parents that is so, although there is just my brother's remains in it with the parents. And the grave is only about 25 years in use. ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar ----- Original Message ----- From: "kaye vernon" <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:57 PM Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? >I am not 100% sure, but I believe that in Ireland there are instances where > they put the death details on the headstone sometimes where people have > died > elsewhere. > I had a few instances where I saw headstones in Ireland where there were a > dozen or more names on the one headstone, obviously they were not all in > the > grave.......so could have easily died elsewhere. > Kaye > > www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MARY THOMAS" <coloknight@verizon.net> > To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > > >> Hi Hilary, >> >> My grandfather had a photo of a gravestone erected for Patrick and >> Hannah. Those were his grandparent's names >

Where are graves recycled- and specifically , in respect of graves, what does the term mean ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Crawford" <reojan@gmail.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:36 AM Subject: Re: (CORK) Where do I look? > Kaye and all, It is very common to have 3-4 buried at a time in a > single grave, one on top of the other. It is also common to recycle > graves after a time. Yes, they may all have been buried there at one > time or another. > > Janet > > On 9/21/06, kaye vernon <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> wrote: >> well surely they wouldnt all be buried in the same grave........it would >> be >> mighty crowded. >> Kaye >> www.bananatv.com/familytreechecklist.htm

Esme Dodd <ESDODD@bigpond.com> said: >I am new to the list and where do I look for Matthew Dodd, born Mallow >1836 Father Richard, Mother Honora? Esme Dodd. See http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmahs/mherit.htm for info on the Mallow Heritage Centre which has Catholic and Protestant parish records for Mallow on computer. It will cost you money but save you time. The alternative is to go to the National Library in Dublin to look at parish records for Mallow 1836 on microfilm. To do that, however, you will need to get a letter of permisison from the Bishop of the Diocese of Cloyne. You can also subscribe to the Mallow List or search its archives by going to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/IRL/IRL-CORK-MALLOW.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dennis Ahern | Mallow Archaeological & Historical Society Acton, Massachusetts | Mr. John Caplice, Dromore, Mallow, Co. Cork ahern@world.std.com | http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlmahs/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -