I would like to reply to Jill's excellent post.The main thing in our research is we keep an open mind without sweeping generalisations . I am living in Ireland but I was born in England and grew up in Wales. My Father was from Ireland and from a devout Catholic family.I was baptised at the age of 3.... what the reason for that was I do not know but thats the story. As for children being baptised almost immediately ...yes that it is true. But obviously there were exceptions as my baptism shows. If we are to get into the social history of our ancestors we have to take everything into consideration. In the mid 1800's where did our ancestors learn to read and write ..... there were the hedgerow schools but as Jill says look at the 1901 and 1911 census for Ireland ..... it tells you if they were literate and what language they spoke.Have you wondered if your ancestors even spoke English? Many had Irish as an only language! This would obv. add to the confusion. One more thing to think about..... I was lucky in my Irish ancestry as an expert from Boston ( her husband is a 3rd cousin to me) researched my McCoramck ancestry and has a book in the National Library of Ireland.I have all of the details back to 1806....and I mean all! (lucky me) In the records I have seen on numerous occassions where a child has died and the following child has been given the name of the dead child (this was common in Eng. and Wales too)Perhaps this can be added to the confusion too..... parents with 7-8 children trying to remember when someone was born exactly......add to that potential illiteracy (you have to admit most were) no wonder there was so much confusion.I again make the point....I have researched Ireland , England and Wales for a long time .....and the same confusion is found everywhere.Have a good weekend,Kevin McCormack,Co Cork,Ireland. > > Here's one for you.....for records found in mid 1800's in South West Cork, Ireland, I have a family member who's baptismal record was dated a few months earlier then the later found birth record. > Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe at one time, it was customary for children of Catholic families to be baptized with in 24 hours of birth. That's fine if the crops weren't being harvested or turf didn't need turning Keep in mind that transportation wasn't always readily available for the farmers that lived on the far outskirts. > My discussion with Father put in perspective for me. He said Ireland was a very difficult time for 99% of it's people in earlier times (I am researching the 1700-1800's). Giving birth, never mind the high mortality rate for new born, being able to put food on the table each night and getting through the other normal everyday hardships were hard enough (and it was here in the US too for many). The Priests knew that the babies were older, even though it was recorded as born a few days prior. Yes it was frowned upon but they understood the families situation and the time period. > I agree with Kevin, it's not just the Irish. Look at your census research or family Bible recordings. > The only correct birth date for my grandmother is her birth record-1887. She would never have told people that she was 3 years younger then my grandfather. Her social security records and her drivers license didn't even have the correct year. But she was consistent....1900 on EVERYTHING...even her memorial stone. LOL. > My thought...the older the record is, the more chance for it to be not accurate. > For me...... I am content that I can find the records of my early ancestors here and in Ireland. And if the records are a bit off.....so be it. > kevin <kevinmcc59@eircom.net> wrote: > I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let sweeping statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing this a long time and have come to accept the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth" is quite ridiculous and to be honest insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 the official records arent there and I can understand your frustration on finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of history is ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their age it was due to illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish person as a whole. Best regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > > > > > Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: RobinVanM@aol.com > > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm > > Subject: Irish Birthdates > > To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > > > > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for Irish > > > immigrant > > > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's Guide > > > to Discovering > > > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year they > > > were born. It > > > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit said > > > Irish > > > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their actual > > > birth year, although > > > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > > > tombstones, local > > > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish ancestors > > > would range from > > > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a Civil > > > War pension, > > > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > > > should judge him > > > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the same > > > first names > > > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > > > Hampshire town of 1700 > > > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > > > them. > > > Robin in Maryland > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > www.ancestralservices.co.uk > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > www.ancestralservices.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

> I can assure you from my experience that it was illiteracy, compare marriage certs and entries.....the old x. was very prevalent...> Yes, for sure there are nearly all signed by the mark 'X', but I can not believe that such a mark meant it was always a result of illiteracy on the part of the informants. Consider this probable scenario of a time before the invention of photo-copiers and computer digitisation as to how the process of registrations might have been accomplished: The informants of a birth or death, or marriage (in which case the required form was completed by the officiating priest or minister) reported the event in person at the local registration office where they made their statements which was duly recorded by the local registrar or one of his staff, and then signed by the informants - if they could write their name. These individual declarations made at local registration offices were then sent to the town wherein the area Superintendent's registration office was located. There they were transcribed onto a large folio, and , at the end of that quarter year, were sent as a batch to the General Registry Office (GRO) Dublin, where they were again transcribed alphabetically in a large folio when all the original individual quarterly returns from the many Superintendents' registration districts were received. In consequence, when one obtains a copy from the GRO, or a local Superintendents' district office, it is understandable that the original signature of informants who could write, could not possibly appear on such a copy. So, that office at the time of issuing a certificate, the clerk had to write the name of the informing party and place an 'x' on the signature line over the original informants names. (I had occasion a few years ago to visit the Superintendents office in Limerick city and witnessed the clerk transcribe the information I had requested from a large folio onto a blank form of certificate). If the above scenario is what happened then one will understand the missing signature and its substitution by an 'x' at a time when no one even dreamt about a device that would make 'de facto' copies. I have copied this to other lists in the hope that someone more informed might add or detract from my supposition on the matter. ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevin " <kevinmcc59@eircom.net> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Irish Birthdates > Hello Dolores, Sorry about the slip up of course it's 1864. You may very > well find yours inconsistent but that hardly means you can include all of > Ireland. I have encountered the same problem with Eng. and Wales as I > said. > I can assure you from my experience that it was illiteracy > compare marriage certs and entries.....the old x. was very prevalent.As > for rounding up and down that was only used in the UK census 1841 as for > the US i do not know, Regards,Kevin. > >> >> Sorry I offended , but after 25 years of research every document and >> census I have on my lines their ages never agree. Civil Registration >> started in 1864 not 1868. I was merely speaking from my experience even >> up to 1940's. Dolores

could the admin cut the size of the digest so it does come as an atachment Jim Denning -Ygenealogist-MTgenealogist using Genetics to connect Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.- and ever an growing list List owner of Irish-dna,Piscopo-l-Heslin-l,McHugh-l,Cogan-l-Machelsea-l,Ita-Frosinone-l,Mazzola-l-Duggan-l Project Manager of Chelsea Ma. Genetics Project,Denning&Variants Project-Farrell Genetics Project-The Cogan Project- the Duggan Project- County Longford Project-Frosinone Italy Project-Parramatta-Sydney Project- Hannibal MO-QuincyIL Project-Brighton-NewtonMA Project

Fostering of children is a centuries old Irish tradition. Sometimes children were fostered by the parents' siblings or near cousins, while other times they were fostered by known 'enemies', almost as hostages to assure some degree of peace between warring factions. Just as with fostering relationships today, some foster siblings would have been very close and treated as true brothers and sisters while others would have been barely tolerated, with every possible variation between the two extremes. Rather than comparing John Finn to the widow and children, my suggestion would be to compare him to James' birth brothers and sisters. If John was mentioned and known birth siblings were not, or if the birth siblings fared worse than John then it's probably safe to conclude that John and James were fairly close. L -----Original Message----- From: irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-cork-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Judie Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 10:04 PM To: IRL-CORK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Foster Brother. Hello everyone, I have a will written by James Thornhill in 1796 wherein he leaves a sum of money to his "foster brother," John Finn. It was a small amount, equivalent to that bequeathed to his staff and much less than the legacies left to his wife and children. It seems to me that John was not a brother in the way that a foster brother would be today - if this were the case I feel that he'd have fared better in the will. Is anyone able to enlighten me as to the probable relationship between James Thornhill and John Finn, in Cork, in the late 18th century? Judie Morris, Victoria, Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi list I am trying to find any members of this family from Kanturk who went to America I know this is asking a lot but any information however small would be very much appreciated.Mick Mick and Rita Winkle

Hello Dolores, Sorry about the slip up of course it's 1864. You may very well find yours inconsistent but that hardly means you can include all of Ireland. I have encountered the same problem with Eng. and Wales as I said. I can assure you from my experience that it was illiteracy compare marriage certs and entries.....the old x. was very prevalent.As for rounding up and down that was only used in the UK census 1841 as for the US i do not know, Regards,Kevin. > > Sorry I offended , but after 25 years of research every document and census I have on my lines their ages never agree. Civil Registration started in 1864 not 1868. I was merely speaking from my experience even up to 1940's. Dolores > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kevin > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:42 pm > Subject: Re: Irish Birthdates > To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com > > > I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let > > sweeping statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing > > this a long time and have come to accept the Irish didn't know > > their age or date of birth" is quite ridiculous and to be honest > > insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 the official > > records arent there and I can understand your frustration on > > finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of > > history is ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their > > age it was due to illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish > > person as a whole. Best regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > > > > > > > > Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to > > accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. > > What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City > > the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one > > birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger > > list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never > > learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: RobinVanM@aol.com > > > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm > > > Subject: Irish Birthdates > > > To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for > > Irish > > > > immigrant > > > > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's > > Guide > > > > to Discovering > > > > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year > > they > > > > were born. It > > > > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit > > said > > > > Irish > > > > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their > > actual > > > > birth year, although > > > > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > > > > tombstones, local > > > > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish > > ancestors > > > > would range from > > > > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a > > Civil > > > > War pension, > > > > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > > > > should judge him > > > > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the > > same > > > > first names > > > > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > > > > Hampshire town of 1700 > > > > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > > > > them. > > > > Robin in Maryland > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL- > > CORK- > > > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > www.ancestralservices.co.uk > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > > Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > www.ancestralservices.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let sweeping statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing this a long time and have come to accept the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth" is quite ridiculous and to be honest insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 the official records arent there and I can understand your frustration on finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of history is ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their age it was due to illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish person as a whole. Best regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > > Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: RobinVanM@aol.com > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm > Subject: Irish Birthdates > To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for Irish > > immigrant > > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's Guide > > to Discovering > > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year they > > were born. It > > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit said > > Irish > > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their actual > > birth year, although > > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > > tombstones, local > > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish ancestors > > would range from > > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a Civil > > War pension, > > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > > should judge him > > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the same > > first names > > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > > Hampshire town of 1700 > > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > > them. > > Robin in Maryland > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > www.ancestralservices.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

Sorry I offended , but after 25 years of research every document and census I have on my lines their ages never agree. Civil Registration started in 1864 not 1868. I was merely speaking from my experience even up to 1940's. Dolores ----- Original Message ----- From: kevin Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:42 pm Subject: Re: Irish Birthdates To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com > I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let > sweeping statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing > this a long time and have come to accept the Irish didn't know > their age or date of birth" is quite ridiculous and to be honest > insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 the official > records arent there and I can understand your frustration on > finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of > history is ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their > age it was due to illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish > person as a whole. Best regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > > > > > Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to > accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. > What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City > the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one > birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger > list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never > learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: RobinVanM@aol.com > > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm > > Subject: Irish Birthdates > > To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > > > > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for > Irish > > > immigrant > > > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's > Guide > > > to Discovering > > > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year > they > > > were born. It > > > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit > said > > > Irish > > > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their > actual > > > birth year, although > > > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > > > tombstones, local > > > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish > ancestors > > > would range from > > > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a > Civil > > > War pension, > > > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > > > should judge him > > > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the > same > > > first names > > > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > > > Hampshire town of 1700 > > > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > > > them. > > > Robin in Maryland > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL- > CORK- > > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > www.ancestralservices.co.uk > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have the same problem with ancestors in England and Wales. It's due to the fact of illiteracy rather than rural life. When you think of it...... how could you possibly keep a track of dates? There was only the written word.In England I found a husband gain 2 years on his wife over 10 years. regards,Kevin. > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for Irish immigrant > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's Guide to Discovering > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year they were born. It > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit said Irish > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their actual birth year, although > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, tombstones, local > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish ancestors would range from > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a Civil War pension, > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We should judge him > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the same first names > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New Hampshire town of 1700 > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding them. > Robin in Maryland > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > www.ancestralservices.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts

Have the marriage records of Christ Evangelical Lutheran Church, York been transcribed? If so where can they be found. Thank you. Marcy

Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York ----- Original Message ----- From: RobinVanM@aol.com Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm Subject: Irish Birthdates To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for Irish > immigrant > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's Guide > to Discovering > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year they > were born. It > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit said > Irish > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their actual > birth year, although > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > tombstones, local > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish ancestors > would range from > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a Civil > War pension, > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > should judge him > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the same > first names > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > Hampshire town of 1700 > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > them. > Robin in Maryland > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Here's one for you.....for records found in mid 1800's in South West Cork, Ireland, I have a family member who's baptismal record was dated a few months earlier then the later found birth record. Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe at one time, it was customary for children of Catholic families to be baptized with in 24 hours of birth. That's fine if the crops weren't being harvested or turf didn't need turning Keep in mind that transportation wasn't always readily available for the farmers that lived on the far outskirts. My discussion with Father put in perspective for me. He said Ireland was a very difficult time for 99% of it's people in earlier times (I am researching the 1700-1800's). Giving birth, never mind the high mortality rate for new born, being able to put food on the table each night and getting through the other normal everyday hardships were hard enough (and it was here in the US too for many). The Priests knew that the babies were older, even though it was recorded as born a few days prior. Yes it was frowned upon but they understood the families situation and the time period. I agree with Kevin, it's not just the Irish. Look at your census research or family Bible recordings. The only correct birth date for my grandmother is her birth record-1887. She would never have told people that she was 3 years younger then my grandfather. Her social security records and her drivers license didn't even have the correct year. But she was consistent....1900 on EVERYTHING...even her memorial stone. LOL. My thought...the older the record is, the more chance for it to be not accurate. For me...... I am content that I can find the records of my early ancestors here and in Ireland. And if the records are a bit off.....so be it. kevin <kevinmcc59@eircom.net> wrote: I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let sweeping statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing this a long time and have come to accept the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth" is quite ridiculous and to be honest insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 the official records arent there and I can understand your frustration on finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of history is ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their age it was due to illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish person as a whole. Best regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > > Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to accept that the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. What really got me recently, working on a family in Jersey City the siblings claim they were born in NY or NJ when I have one birth cert. from England and several of them on the passenger list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: RobinVanM@aol.com > Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm > Subject: Irish Birthdates > To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com > > > I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for Irish > > immigrant > > ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's Guide > > to Discovering > > Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year they > > were born. It > > just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit said > > Irish > > immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their actual > > birth year, although > > the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, > > tombstones, local > > histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish ancestors > > would range from > > 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a Civil > > War pension, > > the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We > > should judge him > > 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the same > > first names > > over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New > > Hampshire town of 1700 > > people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding > > them. > > Robin in Maryland > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- > > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > www.ancestralservices.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Linda A batch number found in the IGI is not a film number, although film is mentioned is the extreme right hand corner of the entry you originally located on the IGI which I've double checked. If a film number had been given it usually says it's a Call Number, American terminology is rather confusing I know. I rather suspect your entry could either be a restricted film or is a LDS patron submission for Temple Ready work in which case obtaining the film will be of no use to you whatsoever, as the entry you want is already shown on the IGI. Just remember that the IGI should be used as a 'finding aid only' not everybody is listed as it is basically a 2% name extraction taken from various Parish registers and Bishop's Transcripts. The IGI is regional and Ancestral File contains family units and pedigrees. I could not find your John Connolly under Ancestral File, which may have produced a submitter's name which could have been helpful but not necessarily so. I've checked my 1992 edition of the Batch Number Index microfiche which I have at home but could not locate the relevant batch number you quoted - C006339 is there but the film number given is for BT's for Aldgate but no C006341. I've also checked out http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm and again without success. Have also checked British Vital Records 2nd edition CD Rom (put out by the LDS church) which has some entries for Ireland again no luck with your John Connolly for the year and date you quote. I would perhaps advise you to go back to www.familysearch.org and look at the library catalogue located on the right hand side of the screen, click on place name, type in Cork and look under the sub heading of Church records - whatever the LDS have been allowed to film will appear here which you can then order from any LDS Family History Centre. Unfortunately, it's very much a case of a lucky dip - very few records are indexed. As John Connolly was born in 1878, look in the library catalogue under keyword search and type in Civil Registration Ireland and look for a film which covers 1878, and order in the film at your local LDS Family History centre. As these are indexes only, it will at least give you the relevant information in which to order a birth certificate in Ireland. I'm sorry I can offer no other suggestions, perhaps fellow listers may be able to add to my comments or to provide additional advice. Carol Redgrove (LDS volunteer librarian) Auckland, NZ -----Original Message----- From: LindaG2854@aol.com [mailto:LindaG2854@aol.com] Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006 8:40 a.m. To: irl-cork@rootsweb.com Subject: John Connolly Hello, Listers. I have the information from familysearch.org. John Connolly date of birth 4 Feb 1878, Cork, son of Michael Connolly and Mary Hayes Connolly. The batch is listed as C006341 but I am unable to get that film. Is there anyone who might have access to this and provide more information to me as to how I could get a copy of this birth/baptismal information? Thank you, Linda

Information given on Irish records at the recent national genealogical conference in Boston suggested that the Irish did know their year of birth but did not compute it the same way we do. They might say they were born in the "year of the big wind." Everyone in their area would have known when that was. I suppose they didn't always know exactly what year (A.D.) that was, but from years of birth given when they emigrated to the US, they had a general idea of the year. My grandfather, who was supposed to be great with numbers, gave his year of birth as 1856, but I found it was really 1855. I suppose, generally speaking, that was close. My grandfather's brother shaved 20 years off his life but not because he didn't know his year of birth. He wanted to continue to be employed and was afraid he would be let go from work. My grandmother's sister shaved 20 years off her life too because she said she didn't want to be considered elderly so the city of Boston would put her in a home for the aged and infirm. When speaking to family, she did give her correct year of birth. So I think there are many, many variations regarding inaccuracy of age, at least what we consider to be inaccurate. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: <irl-cork-request@rootsweb.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:46 PM Subject: IRL-CORK Digest, Vol 1, Issue 22 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: John Connolly (LindaG2854@aol.com) > 2. Difference between Baurnahulla townland and village of > Dromdaleague, Baurnahulla? (Jan Fortado) > 3. Irish Birthdates (RobinVanM@aol.com) > 4. depth of grave considerations (Zizek, Candi (DHS-DCDC-IDB)) > 5. Re: Irish Birthdates (kevin ) > 6. Re: Irish Birthdates (dolard54@optonline.net) > 7. Re: Irish Birthdates (Ann W) > 8. Re: Irish Birthdates (kevin ) > 9. Re: Irish Birthdates (LindaG2854@aol.com) > 10. Re: Irish Birthdates (Susan Troy) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To contact the IRL-CORK list administrator, send an email to > IRL-CORK-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the IRL-CORK mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. >

Jan at janfortado@comcast.net writes: << Why all of a sudden would something be added on to the townland of Baurnahulla? And how would the village of Dromdaleague, townland of Baurnahulla, differ from simply the Village of Dromdaleague. >> Jan, The village of Dromdaleague lies across the boundary between the townlands of Dromdaleague and Baurnahulla. Baurnahulla is the "host" townland for those in the southern part of the village - essentially, those living on the south side of the main east-west R 586 regional road. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts

All this talk about headstones leaves me wanting to be cremated......hehehe

Hi Kaye, That was my first impression...that it was a memorial stone but the death dates are way off and the birthdates are so close that they couldn't be parents or grandparents of my Patrick and Hannah. So the search is on. In 1870 Hannah is listed as Patrick's widow and the previous census had them in Massachusetts. However, their youngest son was born in 1861 in Vermont so I'm heading there...online...to see if I can verify his death. Then it's back to Detroit to get verification of Hannah's death in or around 1893. Wish me luck. Chris kaye vernon <kjvernon@bigpond.net.au> wrote: I am not 100% sure, but I believe that in Ireland there are instances where they put the death details on the headstone sometimes where people have died elsewhere.

I've found birth dates in the US with huge variations as for birth years, even when I'm absolutely sure I have the right person. So I'd say it's probably a universal problem, not one endemic to Ireland. On 9/22/06 6:42 PM, "kevin" <kevinmcc59@eircom.net> wrote: > I'm sorry I don't get worked up about much.....but I can't let sweeping > statements go unchallenged. To say "I've been doing this a long time and have > come to accept the Irish didn't know their age or date of birth" is quite > ridiculous and to be honest insulting.In the US and UK they did? True pre 1868 > the official records arent there and I can understand your frustration on > finding records but making sweeping statements in a field of history is > ridiculous.I again say....if someone didnt know their age it was due to > illiteracy and nothing to do with the Irish person as a whole. Best > regards,Kevin, Co Cork. > >> >> Robin I have been doing this a long time and have come to accept that the >> Irish didn't know their age or date of birth. What really got me recently, >> working on a family in Jersey City the siblings claim they were born in NY or >> NJ when I have one birth cert. from England and several of them on the >> passenger list immigrating claiming they were born in Ireland. I'll never >> learn where they came from in Ireland. Dolores New York >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: RobinVanM@aol.com >> Date: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:41 pm >> Subject: Irish Birthdates >> To: IRL-CORK@rootsweb.com >> >>> I was surprised to find wildly differing birthdates for Irish >>> immigrant >>> ancestors, but Radford and Betit's excellent Genealogist's Guide >>> to Discovering >>> Your Irish Ancestors said they often didn't know the year they >>> were born. It >>> just wasn't important in rural Ireland. Radford and Betit said >>> Irish >>> immigrants sometimes were 5, 10, or 15 years off their actual >>> birth year, although >>> the day and date were often more accurate. From censuses, >>> tombstones, local >>> histories, etc. I found birth years for an my Irish ancestors >>> would range from >>> 9 to 17 years, like 1813 to 1830. When one applied for a Civil >>> War pension, >>> the pension examiner said he "could not tell his age. We >>> should judge him >>> 52." Combine that with the fact that they kept using the same >>> first names >>> over and over (there were five Michael McMahons in a New >>> Hampshire town of 1700 >>> people), and it's no wonder we have such a hard time finding >>> them. >>> Robin in Maryland >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CORK- >>> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > www.ancestralservices.co.uk > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Find the home of your dreams with eircom net property > Sign up for email alerts now http://www.eircom.net/propertyalerts > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I hadn't tried missing friends but you can bet I will. Thanks for the lead. Moonshadow242@aol.com wrote: I think you mentioned a connection to Massachusetts in an earlier post -- have you tried the Search for Missing Friends, which is a compilation of Irish immigrant search notices from the Boston Pilot? Stay well, stay safe, and may you always have enough, Chris

P.S. Have you noticed Cara's List? Wow! If you have any questions at all about Irish graves, I'll bet Cara can give you an answer! Sheila ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheila Bransfield" <Sheila.Bransfield@btinternet.com> To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Tombstones listing locations > Oops! I know I gave you the email address, but if you go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/IRL/IRL-TOMBSTONE-INSCRIPTIONS.html > you > can log on and register for updates. > Sheila Bransfield > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sheila Bransfield" <Sheila.Bransfield@btinternet.com> > To: <irl-cork@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 9:10 AM > Subject: Re: Tombstones listing locations > > >>I have this tombstone website. I think it's still going. The last >>message >> I received was in August. >> IRL-TOMBSTONE-INSCRIPTIONS-L@rootsweb.com >> Sheila Bransfield >> Kent, UK >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CORK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >