The Anglican Church was the Established church up to 1870 when it disestablished by Gladstone. As the established church it was part of the civil or government administration. All subjects were entitled to be buried in the graveyard as they were assumed to be members of the established church unless declared otherwise. It was similar to being a municipal graveyard -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Walton Sent: 16 June 2009 07:00 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: R.C. CHURCH NEAREST DUNMAHON/GLANWORTH 1838 Margaret, I have been told that in those times it was not unusual for R.C to be buried in Cof I graveyards. John...Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "margaret trewick" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Re: R.C. CHURCH NEAREST DUNMAHON/GLANWORTH 1838 > John > Another to add to the list. Thank you. > I am a little confused, because my lot were RC, if in 1839 they would > have > RC burial/cemetery or have to be C of I then? > Margaret > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don, Thank you. I appreciate the insight. Indeed, control is sometimes desireable. Too bad that these circumstances haven't been publicized more widely as the old boy has received far too many knocks over the years - not that they hurt him or that he cares about them in all likelihood. Cliff. "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: "donkelly" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:50 PM Subject: Re: Free availability of Irish Records > Don't desire to get into a difference of opinion, but I have some > information about old books that may not be common knowledge: > > 1. It is said that the Archbishop of Emele closed the books after one > researcher tore two pages out of the book, closed it and walked out, thus > depriving thousand of other researchers the pleasures of reading what was > on those two stolen pages. > > 2. The old books must be opened in controlled circumstances, often with > white, soft, acid free gloves. > > 3. Even the natural acid on your hands damages the paper. > > 4. Even a flash camera tends to fade the paper. > > 5. In conclusion, these old books, to last another century, must be kept > in a habitat, low light, constant temperature, and controlled humidity. > > Anything less means no old books left even during our lifetimes. > > 6. Digitizing by professionals is the only way to go, then the books can > be protected for a long time to come. > > So in a way it is control freaks who do this, but for the greater good. > Profit is a motive too, but not at the risk of losing the books forever. > > donkelly > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:11:56 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: Free availability of Irish Records > > You can do away with the volumes that you all have written and explain it > simply with 2 words, "control freak". > > Cliff. > "May the best you've ever seen, > Be the worst you'll ever see;" > from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Steitz" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:26 PM > Subject: Re: Free availability of Irish Records > > >> Bill- >> I respect and I am thankful for all you have done to bring light to the >> west >> Cork region. I do not wish in any way to disrespect your thoughts. >> >> However, I have a different opinion. I cannot accept the Church's silly >> argument of protecting something that happened in the 19th century. It >> should also be considered most of us; who do not know our origins, are >> products of a people who left under extreme durress. As a result our >> families could not communicate those origins. It was simply behind them. >> I >> can respect, albeit I may not agree with, a 100 year rule or something >> similar but complete non transparency is simply wrong. If the Church felt >> it >> is was important for the people to record their faith, it is equally >> important for the Church to report those records to the family. It is no >> wonder why the Catholic Church has lost my generation. They have >> constricted >> and excluded to the point of self strangulation. >> >> I have been to Dublin once and will never go back. I am a person who >> avoids >> any city in any way, manner or form possible. Libraries give me the >> creeps. >> I want to walk the fields amongst the sheep. I want to meet the residents >> where we once were. I want to lift a stone and replace it in a wall. I >> want >> to listen to the music of a local musician. I have zero interest in >> Dublin. >> >> Let me compare apples and apples. I also have Bavarian Catholic >> ancestors. >> I >> have accessed that data. Yes, I paid a fair sum for it and that is ok. I >> can >> share that. Two wasted nights in Dublin is a lot more expensive. Not only >> did they give every BMD detail possible, they listed the date the family >> hitched the horse to the wagon to go to America. They gave me details of >> family I did not even know about in the same town my family had settled. >> I >> could not ask for better. Pittsburgh Catholic Diocese was equal to that >> Bavarian disclosure. So now I ask what details over 100 years old, I >> should >> add, could the Irish Catholic Church be afraid to disclose in BMD >> records? >> >> My goal has been to give my family a target, a place in Ireland for them >> to >> visit. Currently, they all stay home, waiting for that chance to visit a >> home their elders never wanted to leave. This is not claims to ownership, >> this is a vacation. They will do other things and spend a vacation sum of >> money but it is only worth coming if they can visit the special land. >> Those >> are the facts. I wish the Irish Catholic Church would be more reasonable >> and >> attempt to understand these simple needs of the products of their former >> faithful. >> Respectfully >> John (son of a Buckley) >> >> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 8:18 PM, William P. Fahy <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Monica, >>> >>> The Bishop of Cork does not ban you seeing the records. They are in the >>> process of digitising them. >>> >>> The microfilms for religious are available for research at the National >>> Library and National Archives free of charge up to about 1880. >>> >>> For Church records after 1880 you must contact a cooperative Parish >>> Priest >>> or staff and they have the time or the incentive to look something up >>> for >>> you. >>> >>> You must have a religious or civil parish to narrow down the church area >>> you >>> wish to have a look at. >>> >>> If you look at my web site www.westcorkgenealogy.com and click on Church >>> of >>> Ireland Resources or Roman Catholic Resources you will find the records >>> that >>> are >>> >>> available in the various parishes of West Cork. Civil records are also >>> available at www.familysearch.org and Birth, Marriage and Death record >>> Indexes at >>> >>> http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start. These will >>> indicate the the year or the quarter& year plusVolume & Page number to >>> help >>> you get records from Ireland >>> >>> or you can use the same information to look up the microfilm number for >>> copies of the original documents whether they be Birth, Marriage or >>> Death >>> records and if they have been filmed by >>> >>> the LDS church. The microfilm indicated in the records at the pilot >>> search >>> is only an Index, the Volume & Page number and the year of the event >>> will >>> get you what you need under Birth or >>> >>> Marriage records. >>> >>> >>> Bill Fahy >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Jenny, good move and thanks for posting the reply - I am awaiting a reply from the Department of Culture and Tourism so will see if it differs in any way from the one you received. In the meantime some comments on the fellow who 'looks after the area of genealogy' for Failte Ireland: I am somewhat astounded by the inability to grasp the scale of interest in Irish research and the possibilities for genealogy tourism. 'Up to the individual' indeed!! We know that, and it is costly and sometimes soul-destroying. Our point is that if it were not so darned difficult to locate our ancestors many more of us would be off to Ireland in a flash to visit their home places, subject to finance of course. As I have already stated, the matter of the IFHF centres is one which frustrates me greatly, as does the reluctance of the Church to free up its records. I outlined my concerns in my message to the Department. Clearly our greatest frustration is not with 'state records' although progress is painfully slow there, but with the Church records. Many HAVE been transcribed and are 'locked up' by the Heritage Centres whose search facility is abysmal unless you already know the answer. (Some RC dioceses, parishes and individual priests have been/are more helpful in answering queries of course). As I understand it, the National Library of Ireland recently won a 17 year battle with the Church regarding the 'ownership' of the microfilmed records the Library holds (filmed originally by the LDS I think). To say the RC Church may be 'frightened of opening their books' after recent scandals is to show that this person does not know anything about the history of this problem. As far as the Church of Ireland is concerned, they have no restrictions on who can look at their records and they do not charge for access. They simply don't have the resources to make them available online. Many are on film at the National Archives in Dublin though, and these could be digitised, obviously at a cost. If the State does not step in and take control, the whole kit and caboodle could end up in private or corporate hands and we will pay even more for access. As for the BMDs being 'available through the GRO in Roscommon' well that's great - once you know what you want. The staff at the Dublin office simply shrugged when I asked last year when their indexes might go online. If it were not for the Familysearch BMDs we might never have seen them online at all. So much for the aim of making State records more accessible. The website he gives is the Central Signposting Index which I think (stand to be corrected) is the predecessor of the IFHF search site - out of date now and certainly does not cover the whole of the country. And of course is NOT free. Jenny my friend, I am not shooting the messenger here - Lord knows you do amazing work for Irish research in NZ. But you have shown what we are up against when those in these key roles have so little understanding of the issues. I can only hope we can be like the water and the stone, wear it away by our persistence. Best wishes, (Grumpy) Patsy - New Zealand Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:16 PM Subject: Free availability of Irish Records > In reply to Patsy, John, Margaret and others, > > I contacted the Irish Consulate in New Zealand to see if we could nudge > Ireland into fulfilling our wishes re Family research. > I also signed the partition for support in this. (listed by another member > on this list) > My email was sent to Ireland and the reply from Damian is below. > He works for Failte Ireland, the National Tourism Development Authority in > Dublin and handles the Genealogy area. > Regards > Jenny Martin (New Zealand) > <snip>

My Hurley, Donahue & Spillane ancestors were Roman Catholic. I keep hoping the Bishop will have a change of heart and permit access those records. Looks like it will be a longer wait. In the meantime, can someone on the list recommend a few areas for researching the West Cork/Bantry, Glengariff area? Pat On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > In a message dated 16/06/2009 11:17:15 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > as in the case of West Cork, mentioned in the email. > Cork, Cashel & Emly and Kerry are the main Roman Catholic dioceses where > the Bishop has not permitted access. > > > Just my luck that ALL my ancestors came from West Cork( Timoleague area), > Cashel & Emly (Pallasgreen area) and Kerry ( Listowel). I have now hit a > huge brick wall by not being able to access these records. > > As mentioned, when names in particular areas are so common then these > "heritage" units are only able to help when you can give them the > information... > which seems to miss the whole point of the reason you are searching. I > don't mind paying but dozens of useless searches are not much use to me. > > In these hard economic times I am truly amazed at their failure to > capitalise on the extra benefits that would spring from making these > records more > widely available. > > Monica > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Don't desire to get into a difference of opinion, but I have some information about old books that may not be common knowledge: 1. It is said that the Archbishop of Emele closed the books after one researcher tore two pages out of the book, closed it and walked out, thus depriving thousand of other researchers the pleasures of reading what was on those two stolen pages. 2. The old books must be opened in controlled circumstances, often with white, soft, acid free gloves. 3. Even the natural acid on your hands damages the paper. 4. Even a flash camera tends to fade the paper. 5. In conclusion, these old books, to last another century, must be kept in a habitat, low light, constant temperature, and controlled humidity. Anything less means no old books left even during our lifetimes. 6. Digitizing by professionals is the only way to go, then the books can be protected for a long time to come. So in a way it is control freaks who do this, but for the greater good. Profit is a motive too, but not at the risk of losing the books forever. donkelly ----- Original Message ----- From: Cliff. Johnston <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:11:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Free availability of Irish Records You can do away with the volumes that you all have written and explain it simply with 2 words, "control freak". Cliff. "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Steitz" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Free availability of Irish Records > Bill- > I respect and I am thankful for all you have done to bring light to the > west > Cork region. I do not wish in any way to disrespect your thoughts. > > However, I have a different opinion. I cannot accept the Church's silly > argument of protecting something that happened in the 19th century. It > should also be considered most of us; who do not know our origins, are > products of a people who left under extreme durress. As a result our > families could not communicate those origins. It was simply behind them. I > can respect, albeit I may not agree with, a 100 year rule or something > similar but complete non transparency is simply wrong. If the Church felt > it > is was important for the people to record their faith, it is equally > important for the Church to report those records to the family. It is no > wonder why the Catholic Church has lost my generation. They have > constricted > and excluded to the point of self strangulation. > > I have been to Dublin once and will never go back. I am a person who > avoids > any city in any way, manner or form possible. Libraries give me the > creeps. > I want to walk the fields amongst the sheep. I want to meet the residents > where we once were. I want to lift a stone and replace it in a wall. I > want > to listen to the music of a local musician. I have zero interest in > Dublin. > > Let me compare apples and apples. I also have Bavarian Catholic ancestors. > I > have accessed that data. Yes, I paid a fair sum for it and that is ok. I > can > share that. Two wasted nights in Dublin is a lot more expensive. Not only > did they give every BMD detail possible, they listed the date the family > hitched the horse to the wagon to go to America. They gave me details of > family I did not even know about in the same town my family had settled. I > could not ask for better. Pittsburgh Catholic Diocese was equal to that > Bavarian disclosure. So now I ask what details over 100 years old, I > should > add, could the Irish Catholic Church be afraid to disclose in BMD records? > > My goal has been to give my family a target, a place in Ireland for them > to > visit. Currently, they all stay home, waiting for that chance to visit a > home their elders never wanted to leave. This is not claims to ownership, > this is a vacation. They will do other things and spend a vacation sum of > money but it is only worth coming if they can visit the special land. > Those > are the facts. I wish the Irish Catholic Church would be more reasonable > and > attempt to understand these simple needs of the products of their former > faithful. > Respectfully > John (son of a Buckley) > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 8:18 PM, William P. Fahy <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Monica, >> >> The Bishop of Cork does not ban you seeing the records. They are in the >> process of digitising them. >> >> The microfilms for religious are available for research at the National >> Library and National Archives free of charge up to about 1880. >> >> For Church records after 1880 you must contact a cooperative Parish >> Priest >> or staff and they have the time or the incentive to look something up for >> you. >> >> You must have a religious or civil parish to narrow down the church area >> you >> wish to have a look at. >> >> If you look at my web site www.westcorkgenealogy.com and click on Church >> of >> Ireland Resources or Roman Catholic Resources you will find the records >> that >> are >> >> available in the various parishes of West Cork. Civil records are also >> available at www.familysearch.org and Birth, Marriage and Death record >> Indexes at >> >> http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start. These will >> indicate the the year or the quarter& year plusVolume & Page number to >> help >> you get records from Ireland >> >> or you can use the same information to look up the microfilm number for >> copies of the original documents whether they be Birth, Marriage or Death >> records and if they have been filmed by >> >> the LDS church. The microfilm indicated in the records at the pilot >> search >> is only an Index, the Volume & Page number and the year of the event will >> get you what you need under Birth or >> >> Marriage records. >> >> >> Bill Fahy >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bill- I respect and I am thankful for all you have done to bring light to the west Cork region. I do not wish in any way to disrespect your thoughts. However, I have a different opinion. I cannot accept the Church's silly argument of protecting something that happened in the 19th century. It should also be considered most of us; who do not know our origins, are products of a people who left under extreme durress. As a result our families could not communicate those origins. It was simply behind them. I can respect, albeit I may not agree with, a 100 year rule or something similar but complete non transparency is simply wrong. If the Church felt it is was important for the people to record their faith, it is equally important for the Church to report those records to the family. It is no wonder why the Catholic Church has lost my generation. They have constricted and excluded to the point of self strangulation. I have been to Dublin once and will never go back. I am a person who avoids any city in any way, manner or form possible. Libraries give me the creeps. I want to walk the fields amongst the sheep. I want to meet the residents where we once were. I want to lift a stone and replace it in a wall. I want to listen to the music of a local musician. I have zero interest in Dublin. Let me compare apples and apples. I also have Bavarian Catholic ancestors. I have accessed that data. Yes, I paid a fair sum for it and that is ok. I can share that. Two wasted nights in Dublin is a lot more expensive. Not only did they give every BMD detail possible, they listed the date the family hitched the horse to the wagon to go to America. They gave me details of family I did not even know about in the same town my family had settled. I could not ask for better. Pittsburgh Catholic Diocese was equal to that Bavarian disclosure. So now I ask what details over 100 years old, I should add, could the Irish Catholic Church be afraid to disclose in BMD records? My goal has been to give my family a target, a place in Ireland for them to visit. Currently, they all stay home, waiting for that chance to visit a home their elders never wanted to leave. This is not claims to ownership, this is a vacation. They will do other things and spend a vacation sum of money but it is only worth coming if they can visit the special land. Those are the facts. I wish the Irish Catholic Church would be more reasonable and attempt to understand these simple needs of the products of their former faithful. Respectfully John (son of a Buckley) On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 8:18 PM, William P. Fahy <[email protected]> wrote: > Monica, > > The Bishop of Cork does not ban you seeing the records. They are in the > process of digitising them. > > The microfilms for religious are available for research at the National > Library and National Archives free of charge up to about 1880. > > For Church records after 1880 you must contact a cooperative Parish Priest > or staff and they have the time or the incentive to look something up for > you. > > You must have a religious or civil parish to narrow down the church area > you > wish to have a look at. > > If you look at my web site www.westcorkgenealogy.com and click on Church > of > Ireland Resources or Roman Catholic Resources you will find the records > that > are > > available in the various parishes of West Cork. Civil records are also > available at www.familysearch.org and Birth, Marriage and Death record > Indexes at > > http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start. These will > indicate the the year or the quarter& year plusVolume & Page number to help > you get records from Ireland > > or you can use the same information to look up the microfilm number for > copies of the original documents whether they be Birth, Marriage or Death > records and if they have been filmed by > > the LDS church. The microfilm indicated in the records at the pilot search > is only an Index, the Volume & Page number and the year of the event will > get you what you need under Birth or > > Marriage records. > > > Bill Fahy > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In reply to Patsy, John, Margaret and others, I contacted the Irish Consulate in New Zealand to see if we could nudge Ireland into fulfilling our wishes re Family research. I also signed the partition for support in this. (listed by another member on this list) My email was sent to Ireland and the reply from Damian is below. He works for Failte Ireland, the National Tourism Development Authority in Dublin and handles the Genealogy area. Regards Jenny Martin (New Zealand) I can appreciate their frustration about the lack or availability of records. The Irish Genealogy Project which the government founded in 1987 is still in the business of 'digitising' the records. The aim is to have all state held records online and free of charge. Some great work has already been achieved with the 1901 and 1911 Census returns which are now online. State records only commenced in the mid 19th Century but all births/deaths/marriages are now available through the General Registrars Office in Roscommon. The government is committed to providing state records free of charge. Further info can be got at www.irishgenealogy.ie Two separate groups, the Irish Family History Foundation and the Ulster Family History Foundation operate a pay per view system. However these records are in the public domain. It is up to the consumer whether they wish to pay for the service or do their searching independently. The problem with church records is that they are the property of the churches and they are perfectly entitled to withhold access to the records, as in the case of West Cork, mentioned in the email. Cork, Cashel & Emly and Kerry are the main Roman Catholic dioceses where the Bishop has not permitted access. Given all the scandals in recent years, I guess the Roman Catholic churches are frightened of opening their records. Church of Ireland and Presbyterian records are openly available. I work for Failte Ireland, the National Tourism Development Authority in Dublin, and I look after the area of genealogy. Regards and thanks Damian O'Brien Product Officer - Contemporary Culture & the Arts

You can do away with the volumes that you all have written and explain it simply with 2 words, "control freak". Cliff. "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Steitz" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Free availability of Irish Records > Bill- > I respect and I am thankful for all you have done to bring light to the > west > Cork region. I do not wish in any way to disrespect your thoughts. > > However, I have a different opinion. I cannot accept the Church's silly > argument of protecting something that happened in the 19th century. It > should also be considered most of us; who do not know our origins, are > products of a people who left under extreme durress. As a result our > families could not communicate those origins. It was simply behind them. I > can respect, albeit I may not agree with, a 100 year rule or something > similar but complete non transparency is simply wrong. If the Church felt > it > is was important for the people to record their faith, it is equally > important for the Church to report those records to the family. It is no > wonder why the Catholic Church has lost my generation. They have > constricted > and excluded to the point of self strangulation. > > I have been to Dublin once and will never go back. I am a person who > avoids > any city in any way, manner or form possible. Libraries give me the > creeps. > I want to walk the fields amongst the sheep. I want to meet the residents > where we once were. I want to lift a stone and replace it in a wall. I > want > to listen to the music of a local musician. I have zero interest in > Dublin. > > Let me compare apples and apples. I also have Bavarian Catholic ancestors. > I > have accessed that data. Yes, I paid a fair sum for it and that is ok. I > can > share that. Two wasted nights in Dublin is a lot more expensive. Not only > did they give every BMD detail possible, they listed the date the family > hitched the horse to the wagon to go to America. They gave me details of > family I did not even know about in the same town my family had settled. I > could not ask for better. Pittsburgh Catholic Diocese was equal to that > Bavarian disclosure. So now I ask what details over 100 years old, I > should > add, could the Irish Catholic Church be afraid to disclose in BMD records? > > My goal has been to give my family a target, a place in Ireland for them > to > visit. Currently, they all stay home, waiting for that chance to visit a > home their elders never wanted to leave. This is not claims to ownership, > this is a vacation. They will do other things and spend a vacation sum of > money but it is only worth coming if they can visit the special land. > Those > are the facts. I wish the Irish Catholic Church would be more reasonable > and > attempt to understand these simple needs of the products of their former > faithful. > Respectfully > John (son of a Buckley) > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 8:18 PM, William P. Fahy <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Monica, >> >> The Bishop of Cork does not ban you seeing the records. They are in the >> process of digitising them. >> >> The microfilms for religious are available for research at the National >> Library and National Archives free of charge up to about 1880. >> >> For Church records after 1880 you must contact a cooperative Parish >> Priest >> or staff and they have the time or the incentive to look something up for >> you. >> >> You must have a religious or civil parish to narrow down the church area >> you >> wish to have a look at. >> >> If you look at my web site www.westcorkgenealogy.com and click on Church >> of >> Ireland Resources or Roman Catholic Resources you will find the records >> that >> are >> >> available in the various parishes of West Cork. Civil records are also >> available at www.familysearch.org and Birth, Marriage and Death record >> Indexes at >> >> http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start. These will >> indicate the the year or the quarter& year plusVolume & Page number to >> help >> you get records from Ireland >> >> or you can use the same information to look up the microfilm number for >> copies of the original documents whether they be Birth, Marriage or Death >> records and if they have been filmed by >> >> the LDS church. The microfilm indicated in the records at the pilot >> search >> is only an Index, the Volume & Page number and the year of the event will >> get you what you need under Birth or >> >> Marriage records. >> >> >> Bill Fahy >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Monica, The Bishop of Cork does not ban you seeing the records. They are in the process of digitising them. The microfilms for religious are available for research at the National Library and National Archives free of charge up to about 1880. For Church records after 1880 you must contact a cooperative Parish Priest or staff and they have the time or the incentive to look something up for you. You must have a religious or civil parish to narrow down the church area you wish to have a look at. If you look at my web site www.westcorkgenealogy.com and click on Church of Ireland Resources or Roman Catholic Resources you will find the records that are available in the various parishes of West Cork. Civil records are also available at www.familysearch.org and Birth, Marriage and Death record Indexes at http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start. These will indicate the the year or the quarter& year plusVolume & Page number to help you get records from Ireland or you can use the same information to look up the microfilm number for copies of the original documents whether they be Birth, Marriage or Death records and if they have been filmed by the LDS church. The microfilm indicated in the records at the pilot search is only an Index, the Volume & Page number and the year of the event will get you what you need under Birth or Marriage records. Bill Fahy

In a message dated 16/06/2009 11:17:15 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: as in the case of West Cork, mentioned in the email. Cork, Cashel & Emly and Kerry are the main Roman Catholic dioceses where the Bishop has not permitted access. Just my luck that ALL my ancestors came from West Cork( Timoleague area), Cashel & Emly (Pallasgreen area) and Kerry ( Listowel). I have now hit a huge brick wall by not being able to access these records. As mentioned, when names in particular areas are so common then these "heritage" units are only able to help when you can give them the information... which seems to miss the whole point of the reason you are searching. I don't mind paying but dozens of useless searches are not much use to me. In these hard economic times I am truly amazed at their failure to capitalise on the extra benefits that would spring from making these records more widely available. Monica

Aye, I've run into the same issues with my wife's side of our family - O'Sullivan & Casey from W. Co. Cork - AAARGH! Good hunting, Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Free availability of Irish Records > > > In a message dated 16/06/2009 11:17:15 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > as in the case of West Cork, mentioned in the email. > Cork, Cashel & Emly and Kerry are the main Roman Catholic dioceses where > the Bishop has not permitted access. > > > Just my luck that ALL my ancestors came from West Cork( Timoleague area), > Cashel & Emly (Pallasgreen area) and Kerry ( Listowel). I have now hit a > huge brick wall by not being able to access these records. > > As mentioned, when names in particular areas are so common then these > "heritage" units are only able to help when you can give them the > information... > which seems to miss the whole point of the reason you are searching. I > don't mind paying but dozens of useless searches are not much use to me. > > In these hard economic times I am truly amazed at their failure to > capitalise on the extra benefits that would spring from making these > records more > widely available. > > Monica > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Richard, I would be very interested in anything you find out about the O'Callaghans of Kilshannig. Mine were land owners, at least in the 1700's & I was given to understand they descended from Owen of Dromore, the 6th son of Teige, Lord of Pobul-l-Callaghan, Lord of Dunhallow, but not how! The information came from a book on the Vowell family. Have you looked at the Irish Land Deeds project? There are quite a few Callaghans/O'Callaghans there already. Hopefully one day we will sort them all out! >From Jenny, Sydney, Australia http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~becher/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:10 PM Subject: Richard Isaac - O'Callaghan's from Glantane > Jenny, > > There is a strong possibility that O'Callaghan families around Kilshannig > are linked. > Your findings indicated that your Kilshannig family were landowners or did > they transfer the lease for land. My Cornelius was unable to read and at > the time of his enlistment into the army in 1846 in Mallow aged abt 23. I > suspect that it is the same Cornelius that is recorded as distressed in > Mallow in 1846 and that his family were victims of the Famine. He was > unable to write and was a labourer when he enlisted which raises questions > about his family and the ownership of land. In 1846 his family may well > have owned land but met hard times and lost everthing. > > I have spoken to a local O'Callaghan and there is an interest in > conducting some local research. I intend to return to Mallow next year > and hope to find some information about Kilshannig cemetery. There are > some later O'Callaghan graves there and I was informed that a local lady > had information about the churchyard. ] > After enlisting, his name was recorded Callaghan which remained until > after his death in 1873 and so my search grows. A while ago I found an Ed > Callaghan from the USA researching (O) Callaghan and I am trying to locate > him as his family came from Glantane, Kilshannig. > Many thanks > Richard > Brisbane - AUSTRALIA > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

John Thanks for the clarification that RC would possibly be buried in C of I graveyards. Regards Margaret

Margaret, I have been told that in those times it was not unusual for R.C to be buried in Cof I graveyards. John...Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "margaret trewick" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Re: R.C. CHURCH NEAREST DUNMAHON/GLANWORTH 1838 > John > Another to add to the list. Thank you. > I am a little confused, because my lot were RC, if in 1839 they would > have > RC burial/cemetery or have to be C of I then? > Margaret > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat Thanks for the reference to the book . I will try to see if anyone has a copy of it. Regards Margaret

Hi Jan, Just wanted to thank you for the upload of Glanworth cemetery; it was great to at least see it! I hope to see ancestors names when you upload the booklet but with my luck, they didn't have gravestones. I kbnow their children didn't have them in US in late 1800s. But looking forward anyway!.........Maryann (researching Sullivan, Casey, and Hegarty) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Kenney Fortado" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Glanworth Cemetery > Catholics, as a rule, who lived in Glanworth RC parish, were buried in the > old Glanworth Cemetery. I have a few pictures on the IGP site. > > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/cork/photos/tombstones/markers.htm > > > The book that was mentioned: > > "St. Dominick's Old Cemetery: Glanworth History and Inscriptions," > publshed > by the Glanworth Community Council / Fas 1990-91 > > is a booklet with typed names from the cemetery. Inscriptions, if legible, > were printed. I have a few pages from the booklet that I was going to add > to > the IGP site, but it is lost somewhere in my "pile of things." Eventually > I > will try to find the time to locate it and put the names on the IGP site. > Again, I have only a few pages, not the entire booklet. > > I have found that many families never had a tombstone put up. I once > learned > from a relative where one of my families was buried - over several > generations - but there was no marker. > Jan > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Catholics, as a rule, who lived in Glanworth RC parish, were buried in the old Glanworth Cemetery. I have a few pictures on the IGP site. http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/cork/photos/tombstones/markers.htm The book that was mentioned: "St. Dominick's Old Cemetery: Glanworth History and Inscriptions," publshed by the Glanworth Community Council / Fas 1990-91 is a booklet with typed names from the cemetery. Inscriptions, if legible, were printed. I have a few pages from the booklet that I was going to add to the IGP site, but it is lost somewhere in my "pile of things." Eventually I will try to find the time to locate it and put the names on the IGP site. Again, I have only a few pages, not the entire booklet. I have found that many families never had a tombstone put up. I once learned from a relative where one of my families was buried - over several generations - but there was no marker. Jan

John Another to add to the list. Thank you. I am a little confused, because my lot were RC, if in 1839 they would have RC burial/cemetery or have to be C of I then? Margaret

Dear listers - just a small thing I came across last year in researching for a paper on workhouses and the famine. In order to be eligible for aid from the Poor Law Guardians you could not hold more than one quarter of an acre of land. I also came across a man who was denied help as he was said to have a part share in a fishing boat and equipment. So if your folk 'disappear' from land records about this time, it is possible they were forced to give up their holding in order to receive even the meagre assistance they would get from the Poor Law Union. Just another perspective. Regards, Patsy - New Zealand Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:10 PM Subject: Richard Isaac - O'Callaghan's from Glantane > Jenny, > > There is a strong possibility that O'Callaghan families around Kilshannig > are linked. > Your findings indicated that your Kilshannig family were landowners or did > they transfer the lease for land. My Cornelius was unable to read and at > the time of his enlistment into the army in 1846 in Mallow aged abt 23. I > suspect that it is the same Cornelius that is recorded as distressed in > Mallow in 1846 and that his family were victims of the Famine. He was > unable to write and was a labourer when he enlisted which raises questions > about his family and the ownership of land. In 1846 his family may well > have owned land but met hard times and lost everthing. > > I have spoken to a local O'Callaghan and there is an interest in > conducting some local research. I intend to return to Mallow next year > and hope to find some information about Kilshannig cemetery. There are > some later O'Callaghan graves there and I was informed that a local lady > had information about the churchyard. ] > After enlisting, his name was recorded Callaghan which remained until > after his death in 1873 and so my search grows. A while ago I found an Ed > Callaghan from the USA researching (O) Callaghan and I am trying to locate > him as his family came from Glantane, Kilshannig. > Many thanks > Richard > Brisbane - AUSTRALIA

John Thanks for a starting point. Regards Margaret