I still subscribe to the fact that no evidence that it causes harm is not the same as evidence that it doesn't cause harm. If I don't *know* in advance whether what I'm considering doing is going to damage the stone or not, I assume it will and I don't do it. Given that both stones and shaving creams vary in their properties, I submit that one can never *know* in advance whether a given cream will harm a given stone. It will be too late after the damage is done. And since there are ways to improve visibility without any possibility of harm, why not use them! Mike More mikemore@rogers.com -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brock Way Sent: July 3, 2008 2:52 AM To: IRL-CO-DONEGAL@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] shaving cream on tombstones The notion that shaving cream harms tombstones is a fallacy. It is almost exactly like the idea that sinks drain swirling the other way around on the other side of the equator - once people "learn" this, it is nearly impossible to get them to unlearn it. The rationale behind both assertions sound scientific, but in the end, actual scientists who have training in the applicable fields believe neither of these contentions. The people who believe shaving cream harms tombstones are almost invariably the same people who still believe sinks drain the other way around in Australia. The lie can be put to the sink drainage nonsense by simply testing a few sinks. The lie to the shaving cream harming tombstones nonsense is just as easily dashed, and can be put by merely going to google, and searching using the following search terms: shaving cream tombstones Pick the most popular (i.e., the first) link shown. It was written by a chemist whose specialty is measuring the affinity constants of organic molecules in solutions for solid state materials, which is exactly the matter at hand. Please don't believe the weed-pullers at association for gravestone studies and elsewhere who suddenly now believe themselves experts in chemistry and geology. Believe the expert chemists and geologists on this one. The reason the claim that shaving cream harms tombstones is never accompanied by any evidence supporting the claim is because there isn't any. Brock Way From: "Mike More" <mikemore@rogers.com> Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] Transcribing tombstones Please, NO!!!!. I researched the topic and wrote the following for our local genealogy newsletter last year: We rely on information on tombstones to help us in our research. Projects around the world transcribe cemeteries and make them available for those who can't visit. But how do you transcribe weathered tombstones without causing further damage. We are aware that items that we used in the past, such as shaving cream, may help temporarily but accelerate the damage caused by acid rain, vegetation and insects. I've done some research, in the interest of saving the tombstones for our descendants. Help Preserve Our Cemeteries (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/preserve.html): Don't spray or rub anything into monuments in an attempt to make the inscriptions more visible. I have heard of people who rub shaving cream or chalk into tombstones so that the inscriptions stand out. There are many non-invasive ways of reading an inscription. Often a simple white card to reflect the light at an angle, or waiting for the right time of day, will make the inscription jump out. It is better to wait a couple of hours rather than risk damaging an historic monument. The Association for Gravestone Studies (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/welcome.htm): . Don't use shaving cream, chalk, graphite, dirt, or other concoctions in an attempt to read worn inscriptions. Use a mirror to shine sunlight across the face of a stone, making the lettering stand out. Always prefer a non-invasive method on gravestones just as we do on medical tests on our own bodies . Don't use detergents, soaps, vinegar, bleach, or any other cleaning solutions on the stone, no matter how mild! . Don't use stiff-bristled or wire brushes, putty knives, nail files, or any metal object to clean or to remove lichen from the stone; Soft natural bristled brushes, whisk brooms, or wooden sticks are usually OK if used gently and carefully . Don't attempt to remove stubborn lichen. Soft lichen may be thoroughly soaked with plain water and then loosened with a gum eraser or a wooden popsicle stick. Be gentle. Stop if lichen does not come off easily. Saving Graves (http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm) says: A Note About Shaving Cream, Flour Or Chalk: A word of advice, DON'T use shaving cream , chalk, flour or anything else on tombstones!. These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive. There are a number of websites that promote this method, with one going so far as to assure that the shaving cream will not harm the stone. Please do not attempt this as you WILL be causing a great of damage to the stone and even by washing it after you are finished you will not remove all of the material that you have placed on the stone. More detailed information on why not to use shaving cream on a stone can be found here. In the case of flour, "introducing a starchy organic material to the stone is a death knell for it. not only will feed the lichens that are there but will introduce new ones which will have little natural competition. Also, wheat paste, which the flour essentially becomes when that first rain pours down (or the first dew forms) is a great adhesive. Just because we can't see any of it doesn't mean that it is all gone. Those little fungi and microbes love that sort of stuff and it is best not to introduce anything to the surface of the stone." According to the Crayola website, Molded chalk, such as Crayola Colored chalk, is a softer chalk, made of plaster of Paris, which is defined as quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium sulfate hemihydrate, which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. Sidewalk chalk is much harder than regular chalk; in fact, will actually scratch a typical chalkboard. Saving Graves received the following response from Crayola concerning the use of sidewalk chalk: "Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to." Mike More mikemore@rogers.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hey - sorry. just read your posting. I had no idea that CHALK was harmful to stone. I only used it on very difficult to read stones & we would pour water over it to wash most of it off before we left. Won't do that anymore. Thanks for the warnings. Michelle learning something new everyday. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike More" <mikemore@rogers.com> To: <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] Transcribing tombstones > Please, NO!!!!. I researched the topic and wrote the following for our local > genealogy newsletter last year: > > We rely on information on tombstones to help us in our research. Projects > around the world transcribe cemeteries and make them available for those who > can't visit. But how do you transcribe weathered tombstones without causing > further damage. We are aware that items that we used in the past, such as > shaving cream, may help temporarily but accelerate the damage caused by acid > rain, vegetation and insects. I've done some research, in the interest of > saving the tombstones for our descendants. > > Help Preserve Our Cemeteries (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/preserve.html): > > Saving Graves (http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm) > says: > > A Note About Shaving Cream, Flour Or Chalk: A word of advice, DON'T use > shaving cream , chalk, flour or anything else on tombstones!. These have > many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can > be abrasive. There are a number of websites that promote this method, with > one going so far as to assure that the shaving cream will not harm the > stone. Please do not attempt this as you WILL be causing a great of damage > to the stone and even by washing it after you are finished you will not > remove all of the material that you have placed on the stone. More detailed > information on why not to use shaving cream on a stone can be found here. > > According to the Crayola website, Molded chalk, such as Crayola Colored > chalk, is a softer chalk, made of plaster of Paris, which is defined as > quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium > sulfate hemihydrate, which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. > Sidewalk chalk is much harder than regular chalk; in fact, will actually > scratch a typical chalkboard. Saving Graves received the following response > from Crayola concerning the use of sidewalk chalk: "Crayola sidewalk chalk > contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is > not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained > in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that > may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what > you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, > chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather > conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the > surface it is applied to." > > Mike More > mikemore@rogers.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The notion that shaving cream harms tombstones is a fallacy. It is almost exactly like the idea that sinks drain swirling the other way around on the other side of the equator - once people "learn" this, it is nearly impossible to get them to unlearn it. The rationale behind both assertions sound scientific, but in the end, actual scientists who have training in the applicable fields believe neither of these contentions. The people who believe shaving cream harms tombstones are almost invariably the same people who still believe sinks drain the other way around in Australia. The lie can be put to the sink drainage nonsense by simply testing a few sinks. The lie to the shaving cream harming tombstones nonsense is just as easily dashed, and can be put by merely going to google, and searching using the following search terms: shaving cream tombstones Pick the most popular (i.e., the first) link shown. It was written by a chemist whose specialty is measuring the affinity constants of organic molecules in solutions for solid state materials, which is exactly the matter at hand. Please don't believe the weed-pullers at association for gravestone studies and elsewhere who suddenly now believe themselves experts in chemistry and geology. Believe the expert chemists and geologists on this one. The reason the claim that shaving cream harms tombstones is never accompanied by any evidence supporting the claim is because there isn't any. Brock Way From: "Mike More" <mikemore@rogers.com> Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] Transcribing tombstones Please, NO!!!!. I researched the topic and wrote the following for our local genealogy newsletter last year: We rely on information on tombstones to help us in our research. Projects around the world transcribe cemeteries and make them available for those who can't visit. But how do you transcribe weathered tombstones without causing further damage. We are aware that items that we used in the past, such as shaving cream, may help temporarily but accelerate the damage caused by acid rain, vegetation and insects. I've done some research, in the interest of saving the tombstones for our descendants. Help Preserve Our Cemeteries (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/preserve.html): Don't spray or rub anything into monuments in an attempt to make the inscriptions more visible. I have heard of people who rub shaving cream or chalk into tombstones so that the inscriptions stand out. There are many non-invasive ways of reading an inscription. Often a simple white card to reflect the light at an angle, or waiting for the right time of day, will make the inscription jump out. It is better to wait a couple of hours rather than risk damaging an historic monument. The Association for Gravestone Studies (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/welcome.htm): . Don't use shaving cream, chalk, graphite, dirt, or other concoctions in an attempt to read worn inscriptions. Use a mirror to shine sunlight across the face of a stone, making the lettering stand out. Always prefer a non-invasive method on gravestones just as we do on medical tests on our own bodies . Don't use detergents, soaps, vinegar, bleach, or any other cleaning solutions on the stone, no matter how mild! . Don't use stiff-bristled or wire brushes, putty knives, nail files, or any metal object to clean or to remove lichen from the stone; Soft natural bristled brushes, whisk brooms, or wooden sticks are usually OK if used gently and carefully . Don't attempt to remove stubborn lichen. Soft lichen may be thoroughly soaked with plain water and then loosened with a gum eraser or a wooden popsicle stick. Be gentle. Stop if lichen does not come off easily. Saving Graves (http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm) says: A Note About Shaving Cream, Flour Or Chalk: A word of advice, DON'T use shaving cream , chalk, flour or anything else on tombstones!. These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive. There are a number of websites that promote this method, with one going so far as to assure that the shaving cream will not harm the stone. Please do not attempt this as you WILL be causing a great of damage to the stone and even by washing it after you are finished you will not remove all of the material that you have placed on the stone. More detailed information on why not to use shaving cream on a stone can be found here. In the case of flour, "introducing a starchy organic material to the stone is a death knell for it. not only will feed the lichens that are there but will introduce new ones which will have little natural competition. Also, wheat paste, which the flour essentially becomes when that first rain pours down (or the first dew forms) is a great adhesive. Just because we can't see any of it doesn't mean that it is all gone. Those little fungi and microbes love that sort of stuff and it is best not to introduce anything to the surface of the stone." According to the Crayola website, Molded chalk, such as Crayola Colored chalk, is a softer chalk, made of plaster of Paris, which is defined as quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium sulfate hemihydrate, which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. Sidewalk chalk is much harder than regular chalk; in fact, will actually scratch a typical chalkboard. Saving Graves received the following response from Crayola concerning the use of sidewalk chalk: "Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to." Mike More mikemore@rogers.com

Very few of my ancestors graves have stones. Does than make them repressed and impoverished? I think not. Naw - they were just too mean to waste the money on a headstone. (And when they did, all they said was "The Brewsters of Dromore". Yea thanks, folks.) Actually, I don't often get cross with what is said in this list but I do object to my country being called a Third World Country pre EU. Simmer simmer. Try to remember that some Irish people frequent these lists too. Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm -----Original Message----- From: donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Siobhan Sent: 02 July 2008 22:24 To: janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal Well, speaking as a fellow American, I’ve only studied less than two dozen cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older cemeteries certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in varying stages of completion, and the older stones I’ve photographed, dating from the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it’s taking time to decipher. A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only continue to deteriorate. This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history (I read somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest repressive foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are in unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they’d remember who was buried where but because they couldn’t afford markers, or markers that would stand the test of time. You’ll see even in more recent times, for example, in this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were handwritten. Most of we Americans don’t really appreciate the fact that, pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or destroyed over the years. What I have come across mostly though, and I’m guessing that it’s because of the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even completely submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground and are nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps the fact that it’s an island may also account for the extreme weathering of existing stones. I’ve seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are barely legible anymore due to (I’m guessing) airborne sand and debris in the wind. The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses on my part. That’s actually why, albeit temporarily, I’ve joined the folks who, like Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount of data via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to preserve the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now but they sure will to the generations who follow us, who’ll never otherwise get a chance to read and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess with their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) Siobhán ----- Original Message ---- From: Jane Ward <janemar1e@yahoo.com> To: IRL-CO-Donegal <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegal - List <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegaleire-L <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal A question, from an ignorant American. All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier burials? Older graveyards? Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've seen earlier gravestones on our travels. Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: > From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - > List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" > <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM List Members, > > Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- > > Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh Church > Graveyard in Cty Donegal. > > "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s northern > coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), > along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates > N55.21062, W7.81094" > > I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. > > You can view the file at: > http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv > > The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ > > Have a nice day > Bob > Cdn > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which > you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. > Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Folks, Ireland and especially Donegal is heaving with old gravestones. Most Catholic and Presbyterian churches do not have stones pre 1850 because those denominations were not allowed to bury officially until 1845/1864. But Church of Ireland graveyards will have gravestones going back to the 18th century, some of them belonging to Catholics and Presbyterians. If you check out Lindel's website, you will find zillions: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/mis.htm Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm -----Original Message----- From: donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of judy smith Sent: 02 July 2008 21:43 To: janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte Cc: stdominics1950@verizon.net Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal Jane, Re: No OLD pre: 1800's grave stones to be seen in old Irish cemeteries. I noticed that as well. My people came over to America c.1848 so we have grave stones here in America - New York - Boston - Portland Maine. SNIP

Please, NO!!!!. I researched the topic and wrote the following for our local genealogy newsletter last year: We rely on information on tombstones to help us in our research. Projects around the world transcribe cemeteries and make them available for those who can't visit. But how do you transcribe weathered tombstones without causing further damage. We are aware that items that we used in the past, such as shaving cream, may help temporarily but accelerate the damage caused by acid rain, vegetation and insects. I've done some research, in the interest of saving the tombstones for our descendants. Help Preserve Our Cemeteries (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/preserve.html): Don't spray or rub anything into monuments in an attempt to make the inscriptions more visible. I have heard of people who rub shaving cream or chalk into tombstones so that the inscriptions stand out. There are many non-invasive ways of reading an inscription. Often a simple white card to reflect the light at an angle, or waiting for the right time of day, will make the inscription jump out. It is better to wait a couple of hours rather than risk damaging an historic monument. The Association for Gravestone Studies (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/welcome.htm): . Don't use shaving cream, chalk, graphite, dirt, or other concoctions in an attempt to read worn inscriptions. Use a mirror to shine sunlight across the face of a stone, making the lettering stand out. Always prefer a non-invasive method on gravestones just as we do on medical tests on our own bodies . Don't use detergents, soaps, vinegar, bleach, or any other cleaning solutions on the stone, no matter how mild! . Don't use stiff-bristled or wire brushes, putty knives, nail files, or any metal object to clean or to remove lichen from the stone; Soft natural bristled brushes, whisk brooms, or wooden sticks are usually OK if used gently and carefully . Don't attempt to remove stubborn lichen. Soft lichen may be thoroughly soaked with plain water and then loosened with a gum eraser or a wooden popsicle stick. Be gentle. Stop if lichen does not come off easily. Saving Graves (http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm) says: A Note About Shaving Cream, Flour Or Chalk: A word of advice, DON'T use shaving cream , chalk, flour or anything else on tombstones!. These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive. There are a number of websites that promote this method, with one going so far as to assure that the shaving cream will not harm the stone. Please do not attempt this as you WILL be causing a great of damage to the stone and even by washing it after you are finished you will not remove all of the material that you have placed on the stone. More detailed information on why not to use shaving cream on a stone can be found here. In the case of flour, "introducing a starchy organic material to the stone is a death knell for it. not only will feed the lichens that are there but will introduce new ones which will have little natural competition. Also, wheat paste, which the flour essentially becomes when that first rain pours down (or the first dew forms) is a great adhesive. Just because we can't see any of it doesn't mean that it is all gone. Those little fungi and microbes love that sort of stuff and it is best not to introduce anything to the surface of the stone." According to the Crayola website, Molded chalk, such as Crayola Colored chalk, is a softer chalk, made of plaster of Paris, which is defined as quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium sulfate hemihydrate, which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. Sidewalk chalk is much harder than regular chalk; in fact, will actually scratch a typical chalkboard. Saving Graves received the following response from Crayola concerning the use of sidewalk chalk: "Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to." Mike More mikemore@rogers.com -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Thompson Sent: July 2, 2008 6:09 PM To: Siobhan; janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - CtyDonegal Siobhan . If you take a piece of Chalk and rub it across the engravings they stand out . Laurie

I agree - rub the headstones with chalk - BLUE works better than white if you have it.... it will be easier to read sometimes... then take a picture........... I've ,even then, have had to wait till I got the pictures back to read the headstone. Good luck Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurie Thompson" <lt030329@bigpond.net.au> To: "Siobhan" <smg_ct@yahoo.com>; <janemar1e@yahoo.com>; "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; "hiflyte" <hiflyte@telus.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - CtyDonegal Siobhan . If you take a piece of Chalk and rub it across the engravings they stand out . Laurie "A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only continue to deteriorate." ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Please, NO!!!!. I researched the topic and wrote the following for our local genealogy newsletter last year: We rely on information on tombstones to help us in our research. Projects around the world transcribe cemeteries and make them available for those who can't visit. But how do you transcribe weathered tombstones without causing further damage. We are aware that items that we used in the past, such as shaving cream, may help temporarily but accelerate the damage caused by acid rain, vegetation and insects. I've done some research, in the interest of saving the tombstones for our descendants. Help Preserve Our Cemeteries (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/preserve.html): Don't spray or rub anything into monuments in an attempt to make the inscriptions more visible. I have heard of people who rub shaving cream or chalk into tombstones so that the inscriptions stand out. There are many non-invasive ways of reading an inscription. Often a simple white card to reflect the light at an angle, or waiting for the right time of day, will make the inscription jump out. It is better to wait a couple of hours rather than risk damaging an historic monument. The Association for Gravestone Studies (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/welcome.htm): . Don't use shaving cream, chalk, graphite, dirt, or other concoctions in an attempt to read worn inscriptions. Use a mirror to shine sunlight across the face of a stone, making the lettering stand out. Always prefer a non-invasive method on gravestones just as we do on medical tests on our own bodies . Don't use detergents, soaps, vinegar, bleach, or any other cleaning solutions on the stone, no matter how mild! . Don't use stiff-bristled or wire brushes, putty knives, nail files, or any metal object to clean or to remove lichen from the stone; Soft natural bristled brushes, whisk brooms, or wooden sticks are usually OK if used gently and carefully . Don't attempt to remove stubborn lichen. Soft lichen may be thoroughly soaked with plain water and then loosened with a gum eraser or a wooden popsicle stick. Be gentle. Stop if lichen does not come off easily. Saving Graves (http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm) says: A Note About Shaving Cream, Flour Or Chalk: A word of advice, DON'T use shaving cream , chalk, flour or anything else on tombstones!. These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive. There are a number of websites that promote this method, with one going so far as to assure that the shaving cream will not harm the stone. Please do not attempt this as you WILL be causing a great of damage to the stone and even by washing it after you are finished you will not remove all of the material that you have placed on the stone. More detailed information on why not to use shaving cream on a stone can be found here. In the case of flour, "introducing a starchy organic material to the stone is a death knell for it. not only will feed the lichens that are there but will introduce new ones which will have little natural competition. Also, wheat paste, which the flour essentially becomes when that first rain pours down (or the first dew forms) is a great adhesive. Just because we can't see any of it doesn't mean that it is all gone. Those little fungi and microbes love that sort of stuff and it is best not to introduce anything to the surface of the stone." According to the Crayola website, Molded chalk, such as Crayola Colored chalk, is a softer chalk, made of plaster of Paris, which is defined as quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium sulfate hemihydrate, which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. Sidewalk chalk is much harder than regular chalk; in fact, will actually scratch a typical chalkboard. Saving Graves received the following response from Crayola concerning the use of sidewalk chalk: "Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to." Mike More mikemore@rogers.com -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Thompson Sent: July 2, 2008 6:09 PM To: Siobhan; janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - CtyDonegal Siobhan . If you take a piece of Chalk and rub it across the engravings they stand out . Laurie

Jane, Re: No OLD pre: 1800's grave stones to be seen in old Irish cemeteries. I noticed that as well. My people came over to America c.1848 so we have grave stones here in America - New York - Boston - Portland Maine. Would love to see really OLD markers in Ireland. Erin Go Bragh! Judy Corbin Smith, stdomincics@verizon.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Ward" <janemar1e@yahoo.com> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; "hiflyte" <hiflyte@telus.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >A question, from an ignorant American. > All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier > burials? Older graveyards? > Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've > seen earlier gravestones on our travels. > Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one > thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they > were? > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: > >> From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> >> Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - >> List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" >> <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM >> List Members, >> >> Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- >> >> Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for >> Mevagh Church >> Graveyard in Cty Donegal. >> >> "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s >> northern coastline >> on an >> unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along >> the signposted >> Atlantic >> Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, >> W7.81094" >> >> I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. >> >> You can view the file at: >> http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv >> >> The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- >> soon. >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> >> Have a nice day >> Bob >> Cdn >> >> When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific >> text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the >> digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the >> subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message >> subject to which you are replying. >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED >> ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ >> >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE >> SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE >> >> >> SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: >> Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ >> Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ >> Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, speaking as a fellow American, I’ve only studied less than two dozen cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older cemeteries certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in varying stages of completion, and the older stones I’ve photographed, dating from the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it’s taking time to decipher. A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only continue to deteriorate. This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history (I read somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest repressive foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are in unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they’d remember who was buried where but because they couldn’t afford markers, or markers that would stand the test of time. You’ll see even in more recent times, for example, in this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were handwritten. Most of we Americans don’t really appreciate the fact that, pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or destroyed over the years. What I have come across mostly though, and I’m guessing that it’s because of the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even completely submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground and are nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps the fact that it’s an island may also account for the extreme weathering of existing stones. I’ve seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are barely legible anymore due to (I’m guessing) airborne sand and debris in the wind. The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses on my part. That’s actually why, albeit temporarily, I’ve joined the folks who, like Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount of data via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to preserve the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now but they sure will to the generations who follow us, who’ll never otherwise get a chance to read and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess with their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) Siobhán ----- Original Message ---- From: Jane Ward <janemar1e@yahoo.com> To: IRL-CO-Donegal <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegal - List <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegaleire-L <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal A question, from an ignorant American. All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier burials? Older graveyards? Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've seen earlier gravestones on our travels. Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: > From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM > List Members, > > Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- > > Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for > Mevagh Church > Graveyard in Cty Donegal. > > "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s > northern coastline > on an > unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along > the signposted > Atlantic > Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, > W7.81094" > > I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. > > You can view the file at: > http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv > > The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- > soon. > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ > > Have a nice day > Bob > Cdn > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific > text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the > digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the > subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message > subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A question, from an ignorant American. All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier burials? Older graveyards? Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've seen earlier gravestones on our travels. Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: > From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> > Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM > List Members, > > Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- > > Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for > Mevagh Church > Graveyard in Cty Donegal. > > "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s > northern coastline > on an > unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along > the signposted > Atlantic > Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, > W7.81094" > > I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. > > You can view the file at: > http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv > > The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- > soon. > http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ > > Have a nice day > Bob > Cdn > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific > text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the > digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the > subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message > subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

List Members, Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh Church Graveyard in Cty Donegal. "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s northern coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates N55.21062, W7.81094" I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. You can view the file at: http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ Have a nice day Bob Cdn

The Index is now online for surnames beginning with A, B, C, D, E, and F. We are up to L in our transcriptions and when I get some more time, I hope to get more letters online. If you submitted a surname to the Surname Registry in June and it is not online, it is because it is floating around in cyberspace. We moved to a new server and suddenly our form wasn't working. But now all is well and it is fixed. So I apologize if yours is lost. Please resubmit another one and we will include it in our next update. Also, I had a note from someone who is trying to contact a person who listed a surname because they may be related. If your email changed, submit a new form and put 'change' in the field where you want the change. You can find links to both the Surname Registries and the 1864 Ireland Birth Index at: http://www.irelandgenweb.com/ -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Most digital scanners come with software that has an OCR (optical character recognition) component. Omnipage by CAERE seems to be the most common program bundled with the scanners now (I've bought a number of scanners over the years). It works well but you still need to proof your results which is easily done once digitized. Jim

List Members, IGPA Update Summary for the Month of June 2008 A number of files of interest to those searching the Donegal area have been uploaded to the Ireland Genealogy Project Archives (IGPA) for the month of May. http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ Click on Donegal Donegal Cemetery Records: Miscellaneous Records Martins of East Central Donegal, submitted by Liam Martin The Mathew Martins of St. Johnston, Donegal submitted by Liam Martin Donegal Vital Records McConnel Deaths, Will Probate, submitted by Anne Ward -------------------------------------------- Laois Queens No new data has been added ------------------------------------ I would like to thank all those researchers who have contributed files to the Donegal Archives. These individuals are making our task much simpler by depositing their research data on a public forum for all to utilize. --------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Have you some item of genealogy interest, all types of files, photos of documents, headstones are welcomed at the Archives. If you would like to contribute files or images to the Donegal Archive please contact me or sent the files to my email address listed on the home page of the IGPA website. Contributions for other counties in Ireland are also welcomed, contact the county coordinator listed on the home page http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ Thanks to All Bob Cdn IGPA - Donegal - Laois File Manager ==================================

Marie, For paper you need a scanner. I have a Brother networked multifunction but I find them all pretty much the same unless you get a professional or A3. Autofeed helps and you also need a beefy PC to scan pictures in a reasonable time/quality. Most come with a basic OCR package. There was also a package that came with Microsoft Office at least up to 2003, otherwise you need something like IRIS pro which I use and find reasonable depending on the quality of the original. For Acrobat, there are two types of file, one is where Acrobat is aware of the individual letters and their position (like a word document) the other where it just sees a picture. You can tell the difference when you highlight words, the first will let you select characters, the second only a rectangular area. If it is an image you should print and scan. Nuance have packages that allow you to convert and create Acrobat files and there are shareware versions around. Plan B is voice recognition, for example Dragon Naturally Speaking which allows you to "read" to Word. Training the speech unit is hard work but after that looking at a single document and not have to concentrate on typing is worth it. Side effect is that you drive everybody else in the room crazy. Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marie Van Laeys Sent: 29 June 2008 17:17 To: grantmc@yahoo.com; irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] digitization -- OCR Have you access to the Adobe Software in Ireland? Some of the more sophisticated upgrades may do that for you. Marie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant McLaughlin" <grantmc@yahoo.com> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; <irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:07 AM Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] digitization -- OCR Question for the group...... I have compiled quite a stack of paper and would like to digitize the files -- yet able to modifiy to data once it is digitized. I understand I need to use Optimization Character Resolution (OCR) software to do what I want to do... Does any have a recommendation of hardware and/or software that would enable me to do both photos/PDFs and articles? many thanks. --- On Sun, 6/29/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] How the LDS Digitize the Films To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 9:38 AM Hi, Gen but information only on the Digitization Project at the LDS/FHC Church If not interest hit the delete key. I was browsing the web and came across this explanation of how the digitization project is handled in the deep dark vaults of Granite Mountain Vaults in the Salt Lake area. The actual Record Search site (pilot project ) is at: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=118377 6820771#p=0 New or updated items have a red start adjacent to their name - hyperlink I am not a member of the LDS church just a big time user of their FHCs and CD they sell. Have a nice day Bob Cdn ------------------------------------------ Unlocking the Vault: Conversion to Digital Records is Progressing By Brittany Karford, Church Magazines Members may not have to wonder what lies behind the 14-ton vault door at the Church's Granite Mountain Records Vault (GMRV) facility for much longer. In as little as 10 years, much of its genealogical collection may be at their fingertips. The billions of names preserved on microfilmed records at the vault are being converted to digital images that can eventually be viewed online at FamilySearch.org and ultimately searched in and linked to an online index. The process of digitizing the microfilm is now faster than ever through a "bleeding edge" technology system called FamilySearch^(TM) Scanning. "I call it unlocking the vault," says Heath Nielson, the program's lead software engineer. "I cannot wait for the day when accessibility to these records becomes available to all." When that day comes, the records will be available to everyone, both Latter-day Saints and the public---"God's children everywhere"---according to the project team. And for those researching family history under either title, it will mean no more microfilm, and no more eyes strained from looking at film under dim light. The vision, says Brent Thompson, director of records preservation, is that in the future members in Lima, Peru, who now wait up to six or eight weeks for microfilm, will be able to go to a family history center or anywhere with Internet access and look at records with the click of a button. It is a giant first step toward putting most of the family history collection of the GMRV online. Online images and indexes of birth, marriage, and death records from all over the world may altogether change how family history work is done. Currently, only a minority of members pursue family history work, but the accessibility enabled through FamilySearch Scanning will make it simple for anyone with Internet access to get involved. Brother Thompson believes they will, though at first he didn't dream digitizing the collection would be possible. "I couldn't imagine it possible in my lifetime," he says. "I couldn't imagine it possible in /my children's/ lifetime." At the rate they were going prior to the FamilySearch Scanning technology, it was estimated that it would take 120 years to convert applicable films to digital. That same projection is now less than 30 years, perhaps sooner with planned expansions of additional scanners. The team that couldn't fathom living to see the end result will now be the team that will someday complete the digitizing process. So how does it work? One vault worker loads rolls of film into a pod of scanners and presses "Go". The scanner then takes one comprehensive video picture and transfers that continuous file to another computer, where an application analyzes the contrast of the ribbon for quality and splits each frame into individual JPEGs (a digital file of an image). To finish, a good pair of eyes reviews the job and processes the newly created JPEGs. The digital images are then readied for use by the Church's online indexing program, where volunteers over time will help extract the birth, marriage, and death information from the images to create free searchable indexes online (like the 1880 U.S., 1880 Canada, and 1881 British Censuses currently found at FamilySearch.org). This is a great improvement over the process used just a little more than a year ago, where one person had to be present throughout the entire process, manually scrutinizing each frame. Through three to four feet of film, one technician would adjust the light and contrast with the film density changes, watching every image come across the screen and cutting it out. "We thought, 'How can we apply computer technology to save these poor people's eyes?' " explains Derek Dobson, product manager. "And how can we more quickly convert these microfilms to digital images so people can access them more readily on the Internet?" Enter Heath Nielson and a team of engineers. Not only does the computer system they developed speed the process up, but by taking the frames on a continuous file, it retains the contextual information of each slide as a piece of a whole. "In the computer, it's not piecemeal. You can look at a single frame next to its neighbors, and it tells you something about it," Brother Nielson says. Also, with the manual process there was no way of knowing if they had missed an image, something that is not a factor with the continuous file. Though the technology is not entirely novel, their ability to act and the Church's ability to execute and implement the technology for its intended purposes makes them pioneers in the field. Yet setting the program into motion has not been without its glitches. "It's something I still feel fervently about," Brother Nielson says. "I knew that if this was something we needed to do, there would be a way provided." And there was. In the hard and frustrating times, he said they would find just what mechanism they needed and receive help from specific individuals just when they needed it---one step at a time. On just four scanners, they have tripled output---yet they've still only completed four percent of the targeted films at the vault, and more films are coming in. This year alone, they expect to acquire an additional 28,000, says Wayne Crosby, general manager of GMVR. They have a lot of work to do. The good news is they are two to three years away from completing the transition from microfilm cameras to digital cameras. When this transition is complete, only the existing microfilm collection will need to be converted to digital. Film and microfiche will continue to be stored in the vault, even after their digital conversion. "The polyester film lasts 300 to 500 years and will continue to be used for long-term preservation," Brother Crosby explains, noting that the digitizing of the records is to make them more accessible to family history researchers, not to make preservation easier. And so it's back into the long, chilly corridors deep within Granite Mountain for not only the polyester films, but the new digital records as well. There they will reside in one of six 190-foot long rooms. About 1 million rolls of film are held in each vault, maintained at a constant 55 degrees and 30 percent humidity, ideal for preservation. From the doorway, the row after row of monstrous file cabinets creates the impression of having fallen into /Alice and Wonderland/ and stepped into a strange office where filing cabinets stretch from floor to ceiling. But the vault where the digital images are stored is for the most part empty (One DVD can hold up to 4 digitized microfilms). A few short cabinets hold what's been converted so far, and the expansiveness of the room whispers of a future when it will be filled. When that day comes, most members will be able to access the digital images of the films anywhere they have Internet access---from their homes or local Family History Center---through the Church's genealogical Web site, http://www.familysearch.org; and the staff at GMVR won't be bundling in their coats as often to retrieve fiche and film. "Think how easy that will be," says Paul Nauta, public relations manager for the Family and Church History Department. "In the future individuals anywhere in the world through the Internet will be able to search the majority of the GMRV's film collection and the billions of names currently hidden in them---all from the convenience of their homes or family history center." "Won't it be nice if in between naps and playing with my children, I can jump on the Internet and do family history research," says Brother Nielson. "This technology is the answer to our hopes, our dreams, and our prayers," Brother Thompson adds. He smiles, looking out one of the main office windows---or rather, a giant half-dome portal that opens the granite slab to the north-facing alpine slope across the canyon. About to step out of the paper-and-film world that has shaped his profession, he reflects on the mountainside. "What a view," he says, "and what a great resource this is for the Church. What an inspiration it was to build this facility in a solid wall of granite." ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Have you access to the Adobe Software in Ireland? Some of the more sophisticated upgrades may do that for you. Marie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant McLaughlin" <grantmc@yahoo.com> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; <irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:07 AM Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] digitization -- OCR Question for the group...... I have compiled quite a stack of paper and would like to digitize the files -- yet able to modifiy to data once it is digitized. I understand I need to use Optimization Character Resolution (OCR) software to do what I want to do... Does any have a recommendation of hardware and/or software that would enable me to do both photos/PDFs and articles? many thanks. --- On Sun, 6/29/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] How the LDS Digitize the Films To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 9:38 AM Hi, Gen but information only on the Digitization Project at the LDS/FHC Church If not interest hit the delete key. I was browsing the web and came across this explanation of how the digitization project is handled in the deep dark vaults of Granite Mountain Vaults in the Salt Lake area. The actual Record Search site (pilot project ) is at: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1183776820771#p=0 New or updated items have a red start adjacent to their name - hyperlink I am not a member of the LDS church just a big time user of their FHCs and CD they sell. Have a nice day Bob Cdn ------------------------------------------ Unlocking the Vault: Conversion to Digital Records is Progressing By Brittany Karford, Church Magazines Members may not have to wonder what lies behind the 14-ton vault door at the Church's Granite Mountain Records Vault (GMRV) facility for much longer. In as little as 10 years, much of its genealogical collection may be at their fingertips. The billions of names preserved on microfilmed records at the vault are being converted to digital images that can eventually be viewed online at FamilySearch.org and ultimately searched in and linked to an online index. The process of digitizing the microfilm is now faster than ever through a "bleeding edge" technology system called FamilySearch^(TM) Scanning. "I call it unlocking the vault," says Heath Nielson, the program's lead software engineer. "I cannot wait for the day when accessibility to these records becomes available to all." When that day comes, the records will be available to everyone, both Latter-day Saints and the public---"God's children everywhere"---according to the project team. And for those researching family history under either title, it will mean no more microfilm, and no more eyes strained from looking at film under dim light. The vision, says Brent Thompson, director of records preservation, is that in the future members in Lima, Peru, who now wait up to six or eight weeks for microfilm, will be able to go to a family history center or anywhere with Internet access and look at records with the click of a button. It is a giant first step toward putting most of the family history collection of the GMRV online. Online images and indexes of birth, marriage, and death records from all over the world may altogether change how family history work is done. Currently, only a minority of members pursue family history work, but the accessibility enabled through FamilySearch Scanning will make it simple for anyone with Internet access to get involved. Brother Thompson believes they will, though at first he didn't dream digitizing the collection would be possible. "I couldn't imagine it possible in my lifetime," he says. "I couldn't imagine it possible in /my children's/ lifetime." At the rate they were going prior to the FamilySearch Scanning technology, it was estimated that it would take 120 years to convert applicable films to digital. That same projection is now less than 30 years, perhaps sooner with planned expansions of additional scanners. The team that couldn't fathom living to see the end result will now be the team that will someday complete the digitizing process. So how does it work? One vault worker loads rolls of film into a pod of scanners and presses "Go". The scanner then takes one comprehensive video picture and transfers that continuous file to another computer, where an application analyzes the contrast of the ribbon for quality and splits each frame into individual JPEGs (a digital file of an image). To finish, a good pair of eyes reviews the job and processes the newly created JPEGs. The digital images are then readied for use by the Church's online indexing program, where volunteers over time will help extract the birth, marriage, and death information from the images to create free searchable indexes online (like the 1880 U.S., 1880 Canada, and 1881 British Censuses currently found at FamilySearch.org). This is a great improvement over the process used just a little more than a year ago, where one person had to be present throughout the entire process, manually scrutinizing each frame. Through three to four feet of film, one technician would adjust the light and contrast with the film density changes, watching every image come across the screen and cutting it out. "We thought, 'How can we apply computer technology to save these poor people's eyes?' " explains Derek Dobson, product manager. "And how can we more quickly convert these microfilms to digital images so people can access them more readily on the Internet?" Enter Heath Nielson and a team of engineers. Not only does the computer system they developed speed the process up, but by taking the frames on a continuous file, it retains the contextual information of each slide as a piece of a whole. "In the computer, it's not piecemeal. You can look at a single frame next to its neighbors, and it tells you something about it," Brother Nielson says. Also, with the manual process there was no way of knowing if they had missed an image, something that is not a factor with the continuous file. Though the technology is not entirely novel, their ability to act and the Church's ability to execute and implement the technology for its intended purposes makes them pioneers in the field. Yet setting the program into motion has not been without its glitches. "It's something I still feel fervently about," Brother Nielson says. "I knew that if this was something we needed to do, there would be a way provided." And there was. In the hard and frustrating times, he said they would find just what mechanism they needed and receive help from specific individuals just when they needed it---one step at a time. On just four scanners, they have tripled output---yet they've still only completed four percent of the targeted films at the vault, and more films are coming in. This year alone, they expect to acquire an additional 28,000, says Wayne Crosby, general manager of GMVR. They have a lot of work to do. The good news is they are two to three years away from completing the transition from microfilm cameras to digital cameras. When this transition is complete, only the existing microfilm collection will need to be converted to digital. Film and microfiche will continue to be stored in the vault, even after their digital conversion. "The polyester film lasts 300 to 500 years and will continue to be used for long-term preservation," Brother Crosby explains, noting that the digitizing of the records is to make them more accessible to family history researchers, not to make preservation easier. And so it's back into the long, chilly corridors deep within Granite Mountain for not only the polyester films, but the new digital records as well. There they will reside in one of six 190-foot long rooms. About 1 million rolls of film are held in each vault, maintained at a constant 55 degrees and 30 percent humidity, ideal for preservation. From the doorway, the row after row of monstrous file cabinets creates the impression of having fallen into /Alice and Wonderland/ and stepped into a strange office where filing cabinets stretch from floor to ceiling. But the vault where the digital images are stored is for the most part empty (One DVD can hold up to 4 digitized microfilms). A few short cabinets hold what's been converted so far, and the expansiveness of the room whispers of a future when it will be filled. When that day comes, most members will be able to access the digital images of the films anywhere they have Internet access---from their homes or local Family History Center---through the Church's genealogical Web site, http://www.familysearch.org; and the staff at GMVR won't be bundling in their coats as often to retrieve fiche and film. "Think how easy that will be," says Paul Nauta, public relations manager for the Family and Church History Department. "In the future individuals anywhere in the world through the Internet will be able to search the majority of the GMRV's film collection and the billions of names currently hidden in them---all from the convenience of their homes or family history center." "Won't it be nice if in between naps and playing with my children, I can jump on the Internet and do family history research," says Brother Nielson. "This technology is the answer to our hopes, our dreams, and our prayers," Brother Thompson adds. He smiles, looking out one of the main office windows---or rather, a giant half-dome portal that opens the granite slab to the north-facing alpine slope across the canyon. About to step out of the paper-and-film world that has shaped his profession, he reflects on the mountainside. "What a view," he says, "and what a great resource this is for the Church. What an inspiration it was to build this facility in a solid wall of granite." ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Question for the group......   I have compiled quite a stack of paper and would like to digitize the files -- yet able to modifiy to data once it is digitized.  I understand I need to use Optimization Character Resolution (OCR) software to do what I want to do...  Does any have a recommendation of hardware and/or software that would enable me to do both photos/PDFs and articles?     many thanks. --- On Sun, 6/29/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] How the LDS Digitize the Films To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 9:38 AM Hi, Gen but information only on the Digitization Project at the LDS/FHC Church If not interest hit the delete key. I was browsing the web and came across this explanation of how the digitization project is handled in the deep dark vaults of Granite Mountain Vaults in the Salt Lake area. The actual Record Search site (pilot project ) is at: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1183776820771#p=0 New or updated items have a red start adjacent to their name - hyperlink I am not a member of the LDS church just a big time user of their FHCs and CD they sell. Have a nice day Bob Cdn ------------------------------------------ Unlocking the Vault: Conversion to Digital Records is Progressing By Brittany Karford, Church Magazines Members may not have to wonder what lies behind the 14-ton vault door at the Church's Granite Mountain Records Vault (GMRV) facility for much longer. In as little as 10 years, much of its genealogical collection may be at their fingertips. The billions of names preserved on microfilmed records at the vault are being converted to digital images that can eventually be viewed online at FamilySearch.org and ultimately searched in and linked to an online index. The process of digitizing the microfilm is now faster than ever through a "bleeding edge" technology system called FamilySearch^(TM) Scanning. "I call it unlocking the vault," says Heath Nielson, the program's lead software engineer. "I cannot wait for the day when accessibility to these records becomes available to all." When that day comes, the records will be available to everyone, both Latter-day Saints and the public---"God's children everywhere"---according to the project team. And for those researching family history under either title, it will mean no more microfilm, and no more eyes strained from looking at film under dim light. The vision, says Brent Thompson, director of records preservation, is that in the future members in Lima, Peru, who now wait up to six or eight weeks for microfilm, will be able to go to a family history center or anywhere with Internet access and look at records with the click of a button. It is a giant first step toward putting most of the family history collection of the GMRV online. Online images and indexes of birth, marriage, and death records from all over the world may altogether change how family history work is done. Currently, only a minority of members pursue family history work, but the accessibility enabled through FamilySearch Scanning will make it simple for anyone with Internet access to get involved. Brother Thompson believes they will, though at first he didn't dream digitizing the collection would be possible. "I couldn't imagine it possible in my lifetime," he says. "I couldn't imagine it possible in /my children's/ lifetime." At the rate they were going prior to the FamilySearch Scanning technology, it was estimated that it would take 120 years to convert applicable films to digital. That same projection is now less than 30 years, perhaps sooner with planned expansions of additional scanners. The team that couldn't fathom living to see the end result will now be the team that will someday complete the digitizing process. So how does it work? One vault worker loads rolls of film into a pod of scanners and presses "Go". The scanner then takes one comprehensive video picture and transfers that continuous file to another computer, where an application analyzes the contrast of the ribbon for quality and splits each frame into individual JPEGs (a digital file of an image). To finish, a good pair of eyes reviews the job and processes the newly created JPEGs. The digital images are then readied for use by the Church's online indexing program, where volunteers over time will help extract the birth, marriage, and death information from the images to create free searchable indexes online (like the 1880 U.S., 1880 Canada, and 1881 British Censuses currently found at FamilySearch.org). This is a great improvement over the process used just a little more than a year ago, where one person had to be present throughout the entire process, manually scrutinizing each frame. Through three to four feet of film, one technician would adjust the light and contrast with the film density changes, watching every image come across the screen and cutting it out. "We thought, 'How can we apply computer technology to save these poor people's eyes?' " explains Derek Dobson, product manager. "And how can we more quickly convert these microfilms to digital images so people can access them more readily on the Internet?" Enter Heath Nielson and a team of engineers. Not only does the computer system they developed speed the process up, but by taking the frames on a continuous file, it retains the contextual information of each slide as a piece of a whole. "In the computer, it's not piecemeal. You can look at a single frame next to its neighbors, and it tells you something about it," Brother Nielson says. Also, with the manual process there was no way of knowing if they had missed an image, something that is not a factor with the continuous file. Though the technology is not entirely novel, their ability to act and the Church's ability to execute and implement the technology for its intended purposes makes them pioneers in the field. Yet setting the program into motion has not been without its glitches. "It's something I still feel fervently about," Brother Nielson says. "I knew that if this was something we needed to do, there would be a way provided." And there was. In the hard and frustrating times, he said they would find just what mechanism they needed and receive help from specific individuals just when they needed it---one step at a time. On just four scanners, they have tripled output---yet they've still only completed four percent of the targeted films at the vault, and more films are coming in. This year alone, they expect to acquire an additional 28,000, says Wayne Crosby, general manager of GMVR. They have a lot of work to do. The good news is they are two to three years away from completing the transition from microfilm cameras to digital cameras. When this transition is complete, only the existing microfilm collection will need to be converted to digital. Film and microfiche will continue to be stored in the vault, even after their digital conversion. "The polyester film lasts 300 to 500 years and will continue to be used for long-term preservation," Brother Crosby explains, noting that the digitizing of the records is to make them more accessible to family history researchers, not to make preservation easier. And so it's back into the long, chilly corridors deep within Granite Mountain for not only the polyester films, but the new digital records as well. There they will reside in one of six 190-foot long rooms. About 1 million rolls of film are held in each vault, maintained at a constant 55 degrees and 30 percent humidity, ideal for preservation. From the doorway, the row after row of monstrous file cabinets creates the impression of having fallen into /Alice and Wonderland/ and stepped into a strange office where filing cabinets stretch from floor to ceiling. But the vault where the digital images are stored is for the most part empty (One DVD can hold up to 4 digitized microfilms). A few short cabinets hold what's been converted so far, and the expansiveness of the room whispers of a future when it will be filled. When that day comes, most members will be able to access the digital images of the films anywhere they have Internet access---from their homes or local Family History Center---through the Church's genealogical Web site, http://www.familysearch.org; and the staff at GMVR won't be bundling in their coats as often to retrieve fiche and film. "Think how easy that will be," says Paul Nauta, public relations manager for the Family and Church History Department. "In the future individuals anywhere in the world through the Internet will be able to search the majority of the GMRV's film collection and the billions of names currently hidden in them---all from the convenience of their homes or family history center." "Won't it be nice if in between naps and playing with my children, I can jump on the Internet and do family history research," says Brother Nielson. "This technology is the answer to our hopes, our dreams, and our prayers," Brother Thompson adds. He smiles, looking out one of the main office windows---or rather, a giant half-dome portal that opens the granite slab to the north-facing alpine slope across the canyon. About to step out of the paper-and-film world that has shaped his profession, he reflects on the mountainside. "What a view," he says, "and what a great resource this is for the Church. What an inspiration it was to build this facility in a solid wall of granite." ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Gen but information only on the Digitization Project at the LDS/FHC Church If not interest hit the delete key. I was browsing the web and came across this explanation of how the digitization project is handled in the deep dark vaults of Granite Mountain Vaults in the Salt Lake area. The actual Record Search site (pilot project ) is at: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1183776820771#p=0 New or updated items have a red start adjacent to their name - hyperlink I am not a member of the LDS church just a big time user of their FHCs and CD they sell. Have a nice day Bob Cdn ------------------------------------------ Unlocking the Vault: Conversion to Digital Records is Progressing By Brittany Karford, Church Magazines Members may not have to wonder what lies behind the 14-ton vault door at the Church's Granite Mountain Records Vault (GMRV) facility for much longer. In as little as 10 years, much of its genealogical collection may be at their fingertips. The billions of names preserved on microfilmed records at the vault are being converted to digital images that can eventually be viewed online at FamilySearch.org and ultimately searched in and linked to an online index. The process of digitizing the microfilm is now faster than ever through a "bleeding edge" technology system called FamilySearch^(TM) Scanning. "I call it unlocking the vault," says Heath Nielson, the program's lead software engineer. "I cannot wait for the day when accessibility to these records becomes available to all." When that day comes, the records will be available to everyone, both Latter-day Saints and the public---"God's children everywhere"---according to the project team. And for those researching family history under either title, it will mean no more microfilm, and no more eyes strained from looking at film under dim light. The vision, says Brent Thompson, director of records preservation, is that in the future members in Lima, Peru, who now wait up to six or eight weeks for microfilm, will be able to go to a family history center or anywhere with Internet access and look at records with the click of a button. It is a giant first step toward putting most of the family history collection of the GMRV online. Online images and indexes of birth, marriage, and death records from all over the world may altogether change how family history work is done. Currently, only a minority of members pursue family history work, but the accessibility enabled through FamilySearch Scanning will make it simple for anyone with Internet access to get involved. Brother Thompson believes they will, though at first he didn't dream digitizing the collection would be possible. "I couldn't imagine it possible in my lifetime," he says. "I couldn't imagine it possible in /my children's/ lifetime." At the rate they were going prior to the FamilySearch Scanning technology, it was estimated that it would take 120 years to convert applicable films to digital. That same projection is now less than 30 years, perhaps sooner with planned expansions of additional scanners. The team that couldn't fathom living to see the end result will now be the team that will someday complete the digitizing process. So how does it work? One vault worker loads rolls of film into a pod of scanners and presses "Go". The scanner then takes one comprehensive video picture and transfers that continuous file to another computer, where an application analyzes the contrast of the ribbon for quality and splits each frame into individual JPEGs (a digital file of an image). To finish, a good pair of eyes reviews the job and processes the newly created JPEGs. The digital images are then readied for use by the Church's online indexing program, where volunteers over time will help extract the birth, marriage, and death information from the images to create free searchable indexes online (like the 1880 U.S., 1880 Canada, and 1881 British Censuses currently found at FamilySearch.org). This is a great improvement over the process used just a little more than a year ago, where one person had to be present throughout the entire process, manually scrutinizing each frame. Through three to four feet of film, one technician would adjust the light and contrast with the film density changes, watching every image come across the screen and cutting it out. "We thought, 'How can we apply computer technology to save these poor people's eyes?' " explains Derek Dobson, product manager. "And how can we more quickly convert these microfilms to digital images so people can access them more readily on the Internet?" Enter Heath Nielson and a team of engineers. Not only does the computer system they developed speed the process up, but by taking the frames on a continuous file, it retains the contextual information of each slide as a piece of a whole. "In the computer, it's not piecemeal. You can look at a single frame next to its neighbors, and it tells you something about it," Brother Nielson says. Also, with the manual process there was no way of knowing if they had missed an image, something that is not a factor with the continuous file. Though the technology is not entirely novel, their ability to act and the Church's ability to execute and implement the technology for its intended purposes makes them pioneers in the field. Yet setting the program into motion has not been without its glitches. "It's something I still feel fervently about," Brother Nielson says. "I knew that if this was something we needed to do, there would be a way provided." And there was. In the hard and frustrating times, he said they would find just what mechanism they needed and receive help from specific individuals just when they needed it---one step at a time. On just four scanners, they have tripled output---yet they've still only completed four percent of the targeted films at the vault, and more films are coming in. This year alone, they expect to acquire an additional 28,000, says Wayne Crosby, general manager of GMVR. They have a lot of work to do. The good news is they are two to three years away from completing the transition from microfilm cameras to digital cameras. When this transition is complete, only the existing microfilm collection will need to be converted to digital. Film and microfiche will continue to be stored in the vault, even after their digital conversion. "The polyester film lasts 300 to 500 years and will continue to be used for long-term preservation," Brother Crosby explains, noting that the digitizing of the records is to make them more accessible to family history researchers, not to make preservation easier. And so it's back into the long, chilly corridors deep within Granite Mountain for not only the polyester films, but the new digital records as well. There they will reside in one of six 190-foot long rooms. About 1 million rolls of film are held in each vault, maintained at a constant 55 degrees and 30 percent humidity, ideal for preservation. From the doorway, the row after row of monstrous file cabinets creates the impression of having fallen into /Alice and Wonderland/ and stepped into a strange office where filing cabinets stretch from floor to ceiling. But the vault where the digital images are stored is for the most part empty (One DVD can hold up to 4 digitized microfilms). A few short cabinets hold what's been converted so far, and the expansiveness of the room whispers of a future when it will be filled. When that day comes, most members will be able to access the digital images of the films anywhere they have Internet access---from their homes or local Family History Center---through the Church's genealogical Web site, http://www.familysearch.org; and the staff at GMVR won't be bundling in their coats as often to retrieve fiche and film. "Think how easy that will be," says Paul Nauta, public relations manager for the Family and Church History Department. "In the future individuals anywhere in the world through the Internet will be able to search the majority of the GMRV's film collection and the billions of names currently hidden in them---all from the convenience of their homes or family history center." "Won't it be nice if in between naps and playing with my children, I can jump on the Internet and do family history research," says Brother Nielson. "This technology is the answer to our hopes, our dreams, and our prayers," Brother Thompson adds. He smiles, looking out one of the main office windows---or rather, a giant half-dome portal that opens the granite slab to the north-facing alpine slope across the canyon. About to step out of the paper-and-film world that has shaped his profession, he reflects on the mountainside. "What a view," he says, "and what a great resource this is for the Church. What an inspiration it was to build this facility in a solid wall of granite."

Bob --- I am fortunate enough to have an LDS Family History Library right here in town, and I've spent a lot of time there. I'm not an LDS member but I've been working on the indexing project for several weeks now and it's actually rather interesting. The object is to get all their millions of records from around the world digitized and posted on the internet for all the world to use. I haven't been able to do any Irish records yet but I keep looking for them to come up! I'm currently working on the 1870 Virginia and Louisiana censuses, and it's interesting to think that a lot of these people were slaves only a couple years earlier. For anyone interested, you can work on your own computer from home. The sign up page is: https://www.familysearchindexing.org/fsi-admin/signup/usersignup.jsf Jack Harron, Tallahassee, Florida