Terry EAKIN has listed all the Irish National school admission registers that are available. This list can be found in his Irish Newsletters on the Society of Australian Genealogists web site at the URL http://www.sag.org.au/aisnltrs/NSRI2006.pdf It provides PRONI and NAI reference numbers and LDS Film Numbers where available, together with a list of comments on each school record. Acknowledgements to Valerie in sunny Sydney Liam "A bird in the bush is worth two in the cat"

air pollution *acid rain* is now the most common cause and by far the most devastating thing that harms headstones moss etc can be removed easily with a plastic paint scraper but even this must be done after you check that the inscriptions are not of the variety that are moulded on or embossed as pushing and scraping will take what is there off I really do not like to use any abrasive nor cleanser because of the possible damage.........if you feel that you must use anything at all try a natural lemon or orange based detergent but please please please make sure that you wash everything off very carefully sometimes just a wet roller brush ran over the inscription will give you enough to work on. T he only time that I ever touch a headstone is when they are deserted and many miles from anywhere hidden in brush and scrub where there is no church land owner or council protection.... their information will be lost forever by vandals , falling trees or damage is being done by roots and the headstones life expectancy of the headstone is imminent destruction badly

Does anyone have any information on the Irish heritage of the following individuals-- The info we found yesterday is the following J&J Cooke shipping record for passengers on the Lord Maidstone sailing from Derry to St. John, New Brunswick, departing March and arriving May 1848: James DOHERTY of Ture (between Muff and Moville on Inishowen Peninsula of County Donegal) with Robert DOHERTY Sally DOHERTY Katy (or Keatty) DOHERTY Sally SMITH Jane WEIR The Robert DOHERTY in this group may be my family's link back from New Brunswick, Canada, (and Aroostook County, Maine) to Ireland. Thanks for any info you can provide. I'm at the O'Dochartaigh reunion in Donegal now and we are having a grand old time! Best, Will Doherty

But which country didn't have vast swathes of poverty stricken working class folks in the 19th century? Have you ever read "How Green Was My Valley" by Richard Llewellyn, about the crushing poverty in Welsh mining communities, or "The Scots Quair" by Lewis Grassic Gibbon about poverty stricken Scottish crofters, or "The Ragged Trousered Phimanthropist" by Robert Tressell about poverty stricken English painters in Hastings? I think we are in danger of losing sight of the original question here. There IS no shortage of old tombstones in Donegal. No more so than anywhere else in these islands. Just look in the right places - mainly Church of Ireland churches, which are older than Presbyterian or Catholic churches. There are plenty of stones left by the Victorian middle classes in Donegal, just as in England or Scotland or Wales, but ordinary working class folk, no matter which country they lived in, rarely left stones until the 20th century. For a start, they were illiterate - have you never looked at 19th century marriage records and seen all those big Xes? Not much point in marking a stone when you couldn't read it! And secondly, yes, agricultural labourers, which is what they mostly were - mine certainly were - they were dirt poor - just as they were everywhere else in the world in the 19th century. And they most certainly did not sink into any bogs. Donegal has some of the finest agricultural land in Ireland in the Laggan Valley. As for the EU, most Irish people will be aware that in the controversial referendum held only four weeks ago, the people of Ireland brought the EU juggernaut to a juddering halt by voting NO to a new constitution for the EU. Irish people believed it would have damaged Ireland's neutrality and brought about unwanted social changes and too much immigration, but they also voted No because they had been told by the French and the Germans that they, the Irish, should be thankful for all the benefits that the EU brought us, and vote YES. We are a cussed folk, I'm afraid! And proud too. The French and the Germans now wish to press on without Ireland, and, I am sure you will be struck by the irony here, it is likely to be the British who will ride to Ireland's rescue and veto such a move. So, the EU is a very touchy subject here at the moment. Best not mentioned. Especially as it is off topic! Boyd Gray http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm -----Original Message----- From: Beth Cherkowsky [mailto:bcherkowsky@comcast.net] Sent: 04 July 2008 19:55 To: irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com; boydgray26@utvinternet.com Cc: 'IRL-Donegal - List'; janemar1e@yahoo.com; 'IRL-Donegaleire-L'; 'IRL-CO-Donegal'; 'Siobhan' Subject: RE: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - CtyDonegal The fact of the beauty and culture of the country existed doesn't mean they weren't dirt poor. If they hadn't been dirt poor then fewer of them would have died of starvation during the Great Famine and all the other famines and crop failures and bloody purges. SNIP

Hello I am a new member.My Great Grandmother Mary Dugan came to Philadelphia c. 1878 as did her brother Barney.Theirs parents were Patrick Dugan and Catherine Lafferty/McClafferty who may have been from Crossroads.Mary and Barney( Bernard) were close to their Uncle John Dugan and they may have been orphaned. Mary marries my Patrick Faunt also from Ireland and Barneys marries Rose Coyle.Coyles were cousins both in Ireland and America. Kathleen Carrow Ingram

I quoted Dick's 2005 article as I assumed it would be more likely to represent his current position that his earlier 1999 article. I admit that I have not asked him his current position. I am sure that the readers of this list have heard enough on the topic to make up their minds, so I suggest that we drop it. Mike More mikemore@rogers.com

The fact of the beauty and culture of the country existed doesn't mean they weren't dirt poor. If they hadn't been dirt poor then fewer of them would have died of starvation during the Great Famine and all the other famines and crop failures and bloody purges. Appreciating the culture, the art, the language and the resilienceof the people doesn't alleviate their financial situation. Read a history book for heaven's sake. My people came from Mayo and they were DIRT POOR Doesn't mean they weren't good people and it isn't a value judgement. Beth Cherkowsky http://members.aol.com/efc999/donahue.htm http://www.squidoo.com/donahuefamilyhistory/ Bradley, Donahue/Donohue, Boylan, McHugh, Manning/Mannion/Mangan, Barrett, Burke, Walsh & Forrester in Co. Mayo, Fountas, & Cerkauskas in US, Ireland, Greece, Lithuania & worldwide > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Billups > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 3:13 AM > To: <boydgray26@utvinternet.com> > Cc: 'IRL-Donegal - List'; janemar1e@yahoo.com; 'IRL-Donegaleire-L'; 'IRL-CO- > Donegal'; 'Siobhan' > Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - > CtyDonegal > > Perhaps you should read 'How the Irish saved Civilization' by Thomas > Cahill if you really believe your remark about Ireland before the EU. > My great grandfather McGroarty was born in Donegal and if you read a > bit about the history of his surname you will get an idea of the > history and culture of this magnificent country. Visit the museums in > Dublin and the archaeological sites throughout the country and you > will learn about a country which did not need the EU to be one of the > most civilized. > > I have been traveling to Ireland since the 1960s and found an amazing > country with a rich cultural past. Hardly third world. > > Catherine Riley Billups > 26 Frazione Zerbo > 27040 Montu' Beccaria (PV) > Italy > > tel (39) 0385 262404 > Noto (39) 0931 836732 > billups@italiamac.it > > > > On Jul 2, 2008, at 11:36 PM, <boydgray26@utvinternet.com> > <boydgray26@utvinternet.com > > wrote: > > > Very few of my ancestors graves have stones. Does than make them > > repressed > > and impoverished? I think not. Naw - they were just too mean to > > waste the > > money on a headstone. > > > > (And when they did, all they said was "The Brewsters of Dromore". Yea > > thanks, folks.) > > > > Actually, I don't often get cross with what is said in this list but > > I do > > object to my country being called a Third World Country pre EU. > > Simmer > > simmer. Try to remember that some Irish people frequent these lists > > too. > > > > Boyd Gray > > > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Siobhan > > Sent: 02 July 2008 22:24 > > To: janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; > > IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte > > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > > > Well, speaking as a fellow American, I’ve only studied less than two > > dozen > > cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older > > cemeteries > > certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in > > varying > > stages of completion, and the older stones I’ve photographed, dating > > from > > the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it’s taking > > time to > > decipher. A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and > > instead > > rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they > > say. > > Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better > > part of an > > hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only > > continue to deteriorate. > > > > This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history > > (I read > > somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest > > repressive > > foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are > > in > > unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they’d remember who was > > buried > > where but because they couldn’t afford markers, or markers that > > would stand > > the test of time. You’ll see even in more recent times, for > > example, in > > this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were > > handwritten. Most of we Americans don’t really appreciate the fact > > that, > > pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. > > Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or > > destroyed over the years. > > > > What I have come across mostly though, and I’m guessing that it’s > > because of > > the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older > > gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even > > completely > > submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground > > and are > > nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps > > the fact > > that it’s an island may also account for the extreme weathering of > > existing > > stones. I’ve seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are > > barely > > legible anymore due to (I’m guessing) airborne sand and debris in > > the wind. > > The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses > > on my > > part. > > > > That’s actually why, albeit temporarily, I’ve joined the folks who, > > like > > Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount > > of data > > via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to > > preserve > > the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now > > but > > they sure will to the generations who follow us, who’ll never > > otherwise get > > a chance to read > > and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty > > certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess > > with > > their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) > > > > > > Siobhán > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > > From: Jane Ward <janemar1e@yahoo.com> > > To: IRL-CO-Donegal <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegal - > List > > <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegaleire-L > > <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > > > A question, from an ignorant American. > > All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier > > burials? Older graveyards? > > Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure > > I've > > seen earlier gravestones on our travels. > > Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one > > thought > > it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: > > > >> From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> > >> Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > >> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal > - > >> List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" > >> <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM List Members, > >> > >> Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- > >> > >> Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh > >> Church > >> Graveyard in Cty Donegal. > >> > >> "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s northern > >> coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), > >> along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates > >> N55.21062, W7.81094" > >> > >> I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. > >> > >> You can view the file at: > >> http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv > >> > >> The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. > >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ > >> > >> Have a nice day > >> Bob > >> Cdn > >> > >> When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which > >> you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. > >> Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > >> coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > >> > >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > >> > >> > >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE > >> ARCHIVES AT > >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > >> > >> > >> SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > >> Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > >> Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > >> Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > > which you > > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides > > with the > > message subject to which you are replying. > > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE > > ARCHIVES > > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > > which you > > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides > > with the > > message subject to which you are replying. > > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE > > ARCHIVES > > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > > which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your > > reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > > coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED > ARCHIVES AT > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE > SEARCHABLE > > ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONEGALEIRE- > request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

I am not sure you really need to ask him his current opinion to find out, because he wrote an entry to his blog today in the shaving cream thread (or at least the post is attributed to him, evidently quoting Jerry Hale), wherein he (or else some scoundrel pretending to be him) said: Posted by: Dick Eastman | July 04, 2008 at 09:53 AM "As the representative of the tombstone company said (quoted above in the article), "You mean the shaving creme you put on your face every day for 60 years! Not hardly. What can damage one of my headstones is a bird that has been feasting on mulberries."" I agree - dead horse. Brock Way --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Mike More <mikemore@rogers.com> wrote: > I quoted Dick's 2005 article as I assumed it would be > more likely to > represent his current position that his earlier 1999 > article. I admit that I > have not asked him his current position. > > I am sure that the readers of this list have heard enough > on the topic to > make up their minds, so I suggest that we drop it. > > Mike More > mikemore@rogers.com

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Yes and i have been quite successful some that I could not read with the naked eye I have been able to clean up and enlarge christene

It looks like just another case of bias to me. If your fact-checking had been thorough, then rather than just finding the vacillating statements in 30 years made by Eastman that served your purpose, you would have doubtless found this gem also: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENIRE/1999-08/0934332663 "The first method is very simple: use shaving cream! First, wet the stone. Then cover a section of the stone with the moist cream and then scrape the excess cream off with a piece of Styrofoam. The cream goes into the inscription making it readable. The cream must be moist to work. Neither the Styrofoam nor the cream will damage the stone." Does it still not read enough like a recommendation to you? The part saying "use shaving cream!" is the key part. The "if Bonner is wrong" conception is similarly just bias. As pointed out in my last post, the equivalent contention can be made that shaving cream preserves the stone (except better fitting with the fundamentals of chemistry). So if you put people off from using shaving cream, then by the time the proof of the preservative nature of shaving cream turns up, it will be too late, as all those tombstones will have gone without its preserving effect in the interim, and degraded more than they would otherwise have done. So it is better to be safe than sorry, and use the shaving cream. You see? It is the other side of the same coin, and it is biased and unscientific to choose one over the other a priori. When it comes to understanding chemical properties, I still think I'll side with the chemists over the weed-pullers. Happy 4th Everyone! Brock Way --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Mike More <mikemore@rogers.com> wrote: > I read the article by Dr Bonner and was not convinced. I > don't understand > the chemistry but I do know how to check my facts. Dr > Bonner claims that the > shaving cream theory is supported by Dick Eastman. You can > actually read > Dick Eastman's comments on the subject at > http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2005/05/tombstones_and_.html: > "A newsletter reader wrote this week and asked about > the wisdom of using > shaving cream on tombstones. I have been reading about this > topic > occasionally for about thirty years and am still not clear > on the answer." > That does not sound like a recommendation to me. > > Dr Bonner's position sounds an awful like the cigarette > companies: there is > no proof that [insert name of product] causes damage. The > problem with that > position is that it is too late when the proof is found; > the damage has been > done. > > Scroll down the Google page after Dr Bonner's article > and you will find > other websites with positions on both sides of the > argument. > > I am like Dick Eastman; I don't know which theory is > right. But if Dr Bonner > turns out to be wrong, it will be too late to say sorry. > > Mike More > mikemore@rogers.com

I read the article by Dr Bonner and was not convinced. I don't understand the chemistry but I do know how to check my facts. Dr Bonner claims that the shaving cream theory is supported by Dick Eastman. You can actually read Dick Eastman's comments on the subject at http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2005/05/tombstones_and_.html: "A newsletter reader wrote this week and asked about the wisdom of using shaving cream on tombstones. I have been reading about this topic occasionally for about thirty years and am still not clear on the answer." That does not sound like a recommendation to me. Dr Bonner's position sounds an awful like the cigarette companies: there is no proof that [insert name of product] causes damage. The problem with that position is that it is too late when the proof is found; the damage has been done. Scroll down the Google page after Dr Bonner's article and you will find other websites with positions on both sides of the argument. I am like Dick Eastman; I don't know which theory is right. But if Dr Bonner turns out to be wrong, it will be too late to say sorry. Mike More mikemore@rogers.com -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brock Way Sent: July 4, 2008 3:19 AM To: irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] shaving cream on tombstones Fair enough. However, part of the point of the page to which I pointed made is that shaving cream actually protects the stone from damage it already suffers anyway (stones don't last forever, even if they are never given any anthropogenic insult of any kind). Thus if the sake of the stone over the long term is the consideration, then an a priori belief that not using shaving cream is "safer" concomitant to the discounting of what would otherwise be the a priori belief that it helps preserve the stone is simply a good example of meritless bias, since both sides have the same identifiable claimed endpoint of their respective processes (namely stone preservation), and the same evidenciary basis (i.e., none). I subscribe to the view that no a priori bias should be assumed, and that when picking sides where both the claimed process endpoint and the produced evidence are the same, stick with those who are experts in the applicable field. In this case that would be chemists, geologists, and particularly geochemists. Brock Way > I still subscribe to the fact that no evidence that it > causes harm is not > the same as evidence that it doesn't cause harm. If I > don't *know* in > advance whether what I'm considering doing is going to > damage the stone or > not, I assume it will and I don't do it. Given that > both stones and shaving > creams vary in their properties, I submit that one can > never *know* in > advance whether a given cream will harm a given stone. It will be too > late after the damage is done. And since there are ways to > improve visibility > without any possibility of harm, why not use them! > > > Mike More > mikemore@rogers.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gee, do you work where I work? -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brock Way Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 03:19 To: irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] shaving cream on tombstones Fair enough. However, part of the point of the page to which I pointed made is that shaving cream actually protects the stone from damage it already suffers anyway (stones don't last forever, even if they are never given any anthropogenic insult of any kind). Thus if the sake of the stone over the long term is the consideration, then an a priori belief that not using shaving cream is "safer" concomitant to the discounting of what would otherwise be the a priori belief that it helps preserve the stone is simply a good example of meritless bias, since both sides have the same identifiable claimed endpoint of their respective processes (namely stone preservation), and the same evidenciary basis (i.e., none). I subscribe to the view that no a priori bias should be assumed, and that when picking sides where both the claimed process endpoint and the produced evidence are the same, stick with those who are experts in the applicable field. In this case that would be chemists, geologists, and particularly geochemists. Brock Way > I still subscribe to the fact that no evidence that it > causes harm is not > the same as evidence that it doesn't cause harm. If I > don't *know* in > advance whether what I'm considering doing is going to > damage the stone or > not, I assume it will and I don't do it. Given that > both stones and shaving > creams vary in their properties, I submit that one can > never *know* in > advance whether a given cream will harm a given stone. It will be too > late after the damage is done. And since there are ways to > improve visibility > without any possibility of harm, why not use them! > > > Mike More > mikemore@rogers.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So in words of one syllable, this means what? Sorry guys but for the "common person" long out of science or chemistry classes and just trying to read a headstone - this means WHAT? Beth Cherkowsky http://members.aol.com/efc999/donahue.htm http://www.squidoo.com/donahuefamilyhistory/ Bradley, Donahue/Donohue, Boylan, McHugh, Manning/Mannion/Mangan, Barrett, Burke, Walsh & Forrester in Co. Mayo, Fountas, & Cerkauskas in US, Ireland, Greece, Lithuania & worldwide > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brock Way > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 3:19 AM > To: irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] shaving cream on tombstones > > Fair enough. However, part of the point of the page to which I pointed made is that > shaving cream actually protects the stone from damage it already suffers anyway > (stones don't last forever, even if they are never given any anthropogenic insult of any > kind). Thus if the sake of the stone over the long term is the consideration, then an a > priori belief that not using shaving cream is "safer" concomitant to the discounting of > what would otherwise be the a priori belief that it helps preserve the stone is simply a > good example of meritless bias, since both sides have the same identifiable claimed > endpoint of their respective processes (namely stone preservation), and the same > evidenciary basis (i.e., none). > > I subscribe to the view that no a priori bias should be assumed, and that when picking > sides where both the claimed process endpoint and the produced evidence are the > same, stick with those who are experts in the applicable field. In this case that would > be chemists, geologists, and particularly geochemists. > > Brock Way > > > I still subscribe to the fact that no evidence that it > > causes harm is not > > the same as evidence that it doesn't cause harm. If I > > don't *know* in > > advance whether what I'm considering doing is going to > > damage the stone or > > not, I assume it will and I don't do it. Given that > > both stones and shaving > > creams vary in their properties, I submit that one can > > never *know* in > > advance whether a given cream will harm a given stone. It > > will be too late > > after the damage is done. And since there are ways to > > improve visibility > > without any possibility of harm, why not use them! > > > > > > Mike More > > mikemore@rogers.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

Fair enough. However, part of the point of the page to which I pointed made is that shaving cream actually protects the stone from damage it already suffers anyway (stones don't last forever, even if they are never given any anthropogenic insult of any kind). Thus if the sake of the stone over the long term is the consideration, then an a priori belief that not using shaving cream is "safer" concomitant to the discounting of what would otherwise be the a priori belief that it helps preserve the stone is simply a good example of meritless bias, since both sides have the same identifiable claimed endpoint of their respective processes (namely stone preservation), and the same evidenciary basis (i.e., none). I subscribe to the view that no a priori bias should be assumed, and that when picking sides where both the claimed process endpoint and the produced evidence are the same, stick with those who are experts in the applicable field. In this case that would be chemists, geologists, and particularly geochemists. Brock Way > I still subscribe to the fact that no evidence that it > causes harm is not > the same as evidence that it doesn't cause harm. If I > don't *know* in > advance whether what I'm considering doing is going to > damage the stone or > not, I assume it will and I don't do it. Given that > both stones and shaving > creams vary in their properties, I submit that one can > never *know* in > advance whether a given cream will harm a given stone. It > will be too late > after the damage is done. And since there are ways to > improve visibility > without any possibility of harm, why not use them! > > > Mike More > mikemore@rogers.com

Given that that his email expressed respect and reverence for preserving Irish heritage, I assume that he meant "treated like" a third world country. Email is often a difficult medium in which to correctly express your thoughts. It is hard to come up with a modern analogy for the way the Irish were treated. Phil boydgray26@utvinternet.com wrote: > Very few of my ancestors graves have stones. Does than make them repressed > and impoverished? I think not. Naw - they were just too mean to waste the > money on a headstone. > > (And when they did, all they said was "The Brewsters of Dromore". Yea > thanks, folks.) > > Actually, I don't often get cross with what is said in this list but I do > object to my country being called a Third World Country pre EU. Simmer > simmer. Try to remember that some Irish people frequent these lists too. > > Boyd Gray > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Siobhan > Sent: 02 July 2008 22:24 > To: janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; > IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > Well, speaking as a fellow American, I've only studied less than two dozen > cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older cemeteries > certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in varying > stages of completion, and the older stones I've photographed, dating from > the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it's taking time to > decipher. A lot of them I can't even read with the naked eye and instead > rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. > Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an > hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they'll only > continue to deteriorate. > > This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history (I read > somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest repressive > foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are in > unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they'd remember who was buried > where but because they couldn't afford markers, or markers that would stand > the test of time. You'll see even in more recent times, for example, in > this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were > handwritten. Most of we Americans don't really appreciate the fact that, > pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. > Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or > destroyed over the years. > > What I have come across mostly though, and I'm guessing that it's because of > the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older > gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even completely > submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground and are > nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps the fact > that it's an island may also account for the extreme weathering of existing > stones. I've seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are barely > legible anymore due to (I'm guessing) airborne sand and debris in the wind. > The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses on my > part. > > That's actually why, albeit temporarily, I've joined the folks who, like > Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount of data > via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to preserve > the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now but > they sure will to the generations who follow us, who'll never otherwise get > a chance to read > and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty > certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess with > their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) > > > Siobhán > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jane Ward <janemar1e@yahoo.com> > To: IRL-CO-Donegal <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegal - List > <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegaleire-L > <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > A question, from an ignorant American. > All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier > burials? Older graveyards? > Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure I've > seen earlier gravestones on our travels. > Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one thought > it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: > > >> From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> >> Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - >> List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" >> <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM List Members, >> >> Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- >> >> Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh Church >> Graveyard in Cty Donegal. >> >> "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal's northern >> coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), >> along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates >> N55.21062, W7.81094" >> >> I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. >> >> You can view the file at: >> http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv >> >> The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> >> Have a nice day >> Bob >> Cdn >> >> When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which >> you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. >> Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it >> coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ >> >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE >> ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE >> >> >> SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: >> Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ >> Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ >> Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Perhaps you should read 'How the Irish saved Civilization' by Thomas Cahill if you really believe your remark about Ireland before the EU. My great grandfather McGroarty was born in Donegal and if you read a bit about the history of his surname you will get an idea of the history and culture of this magnificent country. Visit the museums in Dublin and the archaeological sites throughout the country and you will learn about a country which did not need the EU to be one of the most civilized. I have been traveling to Ireland since the 1960s and found an amazing country with a rich cultural past. Hardly third world. Catherine Riley Billups 26 Frazione Zerbo 27040 Montu' Beccaria (PV) Italy tel (39) 0385 262404 Noto (39) 0931 836732 billups@italiamac.it On Jul 2, 2008, at 11:36 PM, <boydgray26@utvinternet.com> <boydgray26@utvinternet.com > wrote: > Very few of my ancestors graves have stones. Does than make them > repressed > and impoverished? I think not. Naw - they were just too mean to > waste the > money on a headstone. > > (And when they did, all they said was "The Brewsters of Dromore". Yea > thanks, folks.) > > Actually, I don't often get cross with what is said in this list but > I do > object to my country being called a Third World Country pre EU. > Simmer > simmer. Try to remember that some Irish people frequent these lists > too. > > Boyd Gray > > http://familytrees.genopro.com/boydgray26/Boyd/default.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:donegaleire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Siobhan > Sent: 02 July 2008 22:24 > To: janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; > IRL-Donegaleire-L; hiflyte > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > Well, speaking as a fellow American, I’ve only studied less than two > dozen > cemeteries here in Ireland thus but I have come across older > cemeteries > certainly. I have 13 others I've shot and begun transcribing, in > varying > stages of completion, and the older stones I’ve photographed, dating > from > the 1700s and 1800s can often be very hard to read so it’s taking > time to > decipher. A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and > instead > rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they > say. > Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better > part of an > hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only > continue to deteriorate. > > This was an extremely impoverished country for most of its history > (I read > somewhere recently Ireland has suffered arguably the longest > repressive > foreign occupation in history) and many of my own family members are > in > unmarked plots, not because everyone figured they’d remember who was > buried > where but because they couldn’t afford markers, or markers that > would stand > the test of time. You’ll see even in more recent times, for > example, in > this particular cemetery (Mevagh), that a number of markers were > handwritten. Most of we Americans don’t really appreciate the fact > that, > pre-EU, this country was considered to be a Third World country. > Additionally, many of the death registers have been lost, damaged or > destroyed over the years. > > What I have come across mostly though, and I’m guessing that it’s > because of > the winds, boggy soil and wet conditions, is that many of the older > gravestones have been fallen face down, or partially or even > completely > submerged. Many have literally sunk below the surface of the ground > and are > nothing more than lumps in nettle-ridden, overgrown grass. Perhaps > the fact > that it’s an island may also account for the extreme weathering of > existing > stones. I’ve seen stones as recent as the 1980s and 1990s that are > barely > legible anymore due to (I’m guessing) airborne sand and debris in > the wind. > The faces of the stones just wear off. But these are just guesses > on my > part. > > That’s actually why, albeit temporarily, I’ve joined the folks who, > like > Jane (who moderates Y-IRL and has contributed a mind-boggling amount > of data > via her website for us amateur genealogists) feel the urgency to > preserve > the information on these decaying stones. Some may not seem old now > but > they sure will to the generations who follow us, who’ll never > otherwise get > a chance to read > and/or see these stones in legible condition. Fortunately, I'm pretty > certain that, if only for its Catholic origins, the Irish don't mess > with > their cemeteries, they don't re-site them or re-use the stones. :o) > > > Siobhán > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jane Ward <janemar1e@yahoo.com> > To: IRL-CO-Donegal <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegal - List > <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>; IRL-Donegaleire-L > <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> > Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:57:48 PM > Subject: Re: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal > > A question, from an ignorant American. > All of the graves seem to be fairly recent. What happened to earlier > burials? Older graveyards? > Our local cemeteries in Michigan go back to the 1850's and I'm sure > I've > seen earlier gravestones on our travels. > Have the stones been re-used? melted away from acid-rain? or no-one > thought > it necessary to mark the graves since "everyone" knew where they were? > > > --- On Wed, 7/2/08, hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> wrote: > >> From: hiflyte <hiflyte@telus.net> >> Subject: [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - Cty Donegal >> To: "IRL-CO-Donegal" <IRL-CO-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegal - >> List" <IRL-DONEGAL-L@rootsweb.com>, "IRL-Donegaleire-L" >> <DONEGALEIRE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:54 AM List Members, >> >> Another gem from our roving Irish reporter --- >> >> Siobhán, Gallagher has contributed the cemetery file for Mevagh >> Church >> Graveyard in Cty Donegal. >> >> "Mevagh Church Graveyard is located on Co. Donegal’s northern >> coastline on an unnamed road (unnamed according to my GPS anyway), >> along the signposted Atlantic Drive in Rosapenna, GPS coordinates >> N55.21062, W7.81094" >> >> I wish to thank Siobhán for this addition to the website. >> >> You can view the file at: >> http://tinyurl.com/57w5zv >> >> The file will be uploaded to the IGPA /Donegal website --- soon. >> http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ >> >> Have a nice day >> Bob >> Cdn >> >> When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to which >> you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. >> Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it >> coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ >> >> >> TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE >> ARCHIVES AT >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE >> >> >> SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: >> Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ >> Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ >> Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides > with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > which you > are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, > remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides > with the > message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES > AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > When replying to a digest post, quote only the specific text to > which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your > reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it > coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY SUBJECT, GO TO THE THREADED ARCHIVES AT > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/DONEGALEIRE/ > > > TO VIEW PREVIOUS EMAILS BY DATES AND SUBJECT GO TO THE SEARCHABLE > ARCHIVES AT http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=DONEGALEIRE > > SOME HELPFUL WEBSITES: > Donegal Genealogy Resource (Lindel's Site) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegal/ > Donegaleire Genealogy Links & Data > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegaleire/ > Bob's Donegal Ireland Genealogy > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hiflyte/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DONEGALEIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Has anyone tried taking digital photos and enhancing them with good software like Photoshop? I don't know about tombstones, but Photoshop has helped with other kinds of images. -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike More Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 07:24 To: brockway_32m@yahoo.com; irl-co-donegal@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] shaving cream on tombstones I still subscribe to the fact that no evidence that it causes harm is not the same as evidence that it doesn't cause harm. If I don't *know* in advance whether what I'm considering doing is going to damage the stone or not, I assume it will and I don't do it. Given that both stones and shaving creams vary in their properties, I submit that one can never *know* in advance whether a given cream will harm a given stone. It will be too late after the damage is done. And since there are ways to improve visibility without any possibility of harm, why not use them! Mike More mikemore@rogers.com -----Original Message----- From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brock Way Sent: July 3, 2008 2:52 AM To: IRL-CO-DONEGAL@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] shaving cream on tombstones The notion that shaving cream harms tombstones is a fallacy. It is almost exactly like the idea that sinks drain swirling the other way around on the other side of the equator - once people "learn" this, it is nearly impossible to get them to unlearn it. The rationale behind both assertions sound scientific, but in the end, actual scientists who have training in the applicable fields believe neither of these contentions. The people who believe shaving cream harms tombstones are almost invariably the same people who still believe sinks drain the other way around in Australia. The lie can be put to the sink drainage nonsense by simply testing a few sinks. The lie to the shaving cream harming tombstones nonsense is just as easily dashed, and can be put by merely going to google, and searching using the following search terms: shaving cream tombstones Pick the most popular (i.e., the first) link shown. It was written by a chemist whose specialty is measuring the affinity constants of organic molecules in solutions for solid state materials, which is exactly the matter at hand. Please don't believe the weed-pullers at association for gravestone studies and elsewhere who suddenly now believe themselves experts in chemistry and geology. Believe the expert chemists and geologists on this one. The reason the claim that shaving cream harms tombstones is never accompanied by any evidence supporting the claim is because there isn't any. Brock Way From: "Mike More" <mikemore@rogers.com> Subject: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] Transcribing tombstones Please, NO!!!!. I researched the topic and wrote the following for our local genealogy newsletter last year: We rely on information on tombstones to help us in our research. Projects around the world transcribe cemeteries and make them available for those who can't visit. But how do you transcribe weathered tombstones without causing further damage. We are aware that items that we used in the past, such as shaving cream, may help temporarily but accelerate the damage caused by acid rain, vegetation and insects. I've done some research, in the interest of saving the tombstones for our descendants. Help Preserve Our Cemeteries (http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/preserve.html): Don't spray or rub anything into monuments in an attempt to make the inscriptions more visible. I have heard of people who rub shaving cream or chalk into tombstones so that the inscriptions stand out. There are many non-invasive ways of reading an inscription. Often a simple white card to reflect the light at an angle, or waiting for the right time of day, will make the inscription jump out. It is better to wait a couple of hours rather than risk damaging an historic monument. The Association for Gravestone Studies (http://www.gravestonestudies.org/welcome.htm): . Don't use shaving cream, chalk, graphite, dirt, or other concoctions in an attempt to read worn inscriptions. Use a mirror to shine sunlight across the face of a stone, making the lettering stand out. Always prefer a non-invasive method on gravestones just as we do on medical tests on our own bodies . Don't use detergents, soaps, vinegar, bleach, or any other cleaning solutions on the stone, no matter how mild! . Don't use stiff-bristled or wire brushes, putty knives, nail files, or any metal object to clean or to remove lichen from the stone; Soft natural bristled brushes, whisk brooms, or wooden sticks are usually OK if used gently and carefully . Don't attempt to remove stubborn lichen. Soft lichen may be thoroughly soaked with plain water and then loosened with a gum eraser or a wooden popsicle stick. Be gentle. Stop if lichen does not come off easily. Saving Graves (http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/rubbings.htm) says: A Note About Shaving Cream, Flour Or Chalk: A word of advice, DON'T use shaving cream , chalk, flour or anything else on tombstones!. These have many ingredients harmful to tombstones (like butane) and in some cases can be abrasive. There are a number of websites that promote this method, with one going so far as to assure that the shaving cream will not harm the stone. Please do not attempt this as you WILL be causing a great of damage to the stone and even by washing it after you are finished you will not remove all of the material that you have placed on the stone. More detailed information on why not to use shaving cream on a stone can be found here. In the case of flour, "introducing a starchy organic material to the stone is a death knell for it. not only will feed the lichens that are there but will introduce new ones which will have little natural competition. Also, wheat paste, which the flour essentially becomes when that first rain pours down (or the first dew forms) is a great adhesive. Just because we can't see any of it doesn't mean that it is all gone. Those little fungi and microbes love that sort of stuff and it is best not to introduce anything to the surface of the stone." According to the Crayola website, Molded chalk, such as Crayola Colored chalk, is a softer chalk, made of plaster of Paris, which is defined as quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium sulfate hemihydrate, which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. Sidewalk chalk is much harder than regular chalk; in fact, will actually scratch a typical chalkboard. Saving Graves received the following response from Crayola concerning the use of sidewalk chalk: "Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to." Mike More mikemore@rogers.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not quite as guaranteed is a digital picture and then in your picture editing software, try the "negative" view. Of course, the problem is, if it doesn't work, you have to trek back and do something else. Beth Cherkowsky http://members.aol.com/efc999/donahue.htm http://www.squidoo.com/donahuefamilyhistory/ Bradley, Donahue/Donohue, Boylan, McHugh, Manning/Mannion/Mangan, Barrett, Burke, Walsh & Forrester in Co. Mayo, Fountas, & Cerkauskas in US, Ireland, Greece, Lithuania & worldwide > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-co-donegal-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-co-donegal- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Thompson > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:09 PM > To: Siobhan; janemar1e@yahoo.com; IRL-CO-Donegal; IRL-Donegal - List; IRL- > Donegaleire-L; hiflyte > Subject: Re: [IRL-CO-DONEGAL] [DONEGALEIRE] Mevagh Church Graveyard - > CtyDonegal > > Siobhan . If you take a piece of Chalk and rub it across the engravings they stand out . > Laurie > "A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital > computer > software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can > sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it > because I know they’ll only > continue to deteriorate." > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CO-DONEGAL- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

Siobhan . If you take a piece of Chalk and rub it across the engravings they stand out . Laurie "A lot of them I can’t even read with the naked eye and instead rely on my digital computer software to help me make out what they say. Even so, reading a single stone can sometimes take me the better part of an hour, sometimes more, but I stick with it because I know they’ll only continue to deteriorate."