>>>There is no designated Chief of Clan Scanlan at this time. If and when the Clan organizes and has at >>>least ten members, they could elect a Chief for their clan. Their title would be 'Hon' Chief of Clan >>>Scanlan. I would suggest they contact The Clans of Ireland, Ltd to get registered >>> also which will help build their membership. ==================================== So long as the designation "Hon." means "Honorary" and not "Honorable", I would say go ahead and set up a clan SOCIETY through 'Clans of Ireland' ('C of I') , an apparent agency of the Republic of Ireland. The Chief Herald (Irish Genealogical Office) has declared it will no longer be involved with genuine Irish Chiefships. That decision, at last, was the correct one, as the present successor government of Ireland has no authority whatsoever to regulate ancient Chiefships. Any elected "Chief", lacking a connected and well-documented pedigree to a former chief, most likely would not be the bloodline Chief of Clan Scanlan, or any other clan. Realize that you would be merely joining a C of I (Republic of Ireland) social club heavily involved in tourism. Genuine Irish Chiefships are hereditary through the male-line of the chiefly family, according to Salic tanistry. No outside entity can "designate" a Chief. The final decision on that matter is the family itself, and the only semblance to "election" is among the 'derbhfine' (male-line relatives up to 2nd cousins) of the chiefly heir or claimant, assuming a dormant chiefship being revived. The English system of primogeniture succession imposed by conquest and force of arms, and adopted by the present Irish government, has not changed that and cannot lawfully do so. The O'Cahan

At this time, The Clans of Ireland, Ltd is the only authority that recognizes Irish Clans. They do not recognize Irish Chiefs. The mission statement of The Clans of Ireland, Ltd follows: To promote and develop the concept and organization of Irish Clans on the island of Ireland and abroad. To represent Irish Clans at home or abroad, and to unite them into a cohesive movement. To advance education by promoting Irish historical research, values and culture. To encourage people with the Irish Clans to trace their family history. It is not a social club nor an agency of the Irish government. They are a registered charity with the Irish government supporting the Irish clans. That function of Chief of Name recognition resided with the Chief Heralds Office (no connection to the Irish Genealogical Office) until 2001. The Chiefs of Name recognized by MacLysaght in the 1940s are still recognized. The Chiefs of Name recognized by the Chief Heralds Office between 1989 and 1992 have been suspended pending a review by that office. At this time, the Chief Heralds Office has not reviewed any of these Chiefs. The Chief Heralds Office was never a legal office in regards to Chief recognition. They did perform genealogical research to verify Chiefs that were male bloodline descendents from their last de facto Chief and therefore authorized to use the position designation 'THE' before their surname. 'THE' is not a title but a designation for the person in charge of the senior branch of their family. The Chief Heralds Office does not designate a Chief of Name. In the past, they only verified what someone had claimed. The current Genealogy and Heraldry Bill 2006 before the Irish Senate will make the Chief Heralds Office a government agency with government employees. At that time they will be able to officially recognize Irish Chiefs of Name. I have read the Bill and can't wait for it's approval. It would legitimize the Chief of Name position. The question of elected Chiefs by derbhfine is also acceptable. Unfortunately, there were no records of these elections and therefore cannot be verified. Unfortunate as that may be, that is all we have to work with. One further note: 'HON', as in Honorary, is the proper title for a Chief that is elected from his derbhfine. 'HON' as in Honorable, is the proper title for those with titles received from the British Government. (Sir Conor O'Brien, 18th Baron Inchiquin is addressed as Rt Honorable Conor O'Brien or Lord Inchiquin) Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dolmenx@aol.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] : The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) >>>>There is no designated Chief of Clan Scanlan at this time. If and when > the Clan organizes and has at >>>least ten members, they could elect a > Chief > for their clan. Their title would be 'Hon' Chief of Clan >>>Scanlan. I > would suggest they contact The Clans of Ireland, Ltd to get registered >>>> also which will help build their membership. > ==================================== > > So long as the designation "Hon." means "Honorary" and not "Honorable", > I > would say go ahead and set up a clan SOCIETY through 'Clans of Ireland' > ('C of > I') , an apparent agency of the Republic of Ireland. The Chief Herald > (Irish Genealogical Office) has declared it will no longer be involved > with > genuine Irish Chiefships. That decision, at last, was the correct one, > as the > present successor government of Ireland has no authority whatsoever to > regulate > ancient Chiefships. Any elected "Chief", lacking a connected and > well-documented pedigree to a former chief, most likely would not be the > bloodline > Chief of Clan Scanlan, or any other clan. Realize that you would be > merely > joining a C of I (Republic of Ireland) social club heavily involved in > tourism. > > Genuine Irish Chiefships are hereditary through the male-line of the > chiefly > family, according to Salic tanistry. > No outside entity can "designate" a Chief. The final decision on that > matter is the family itself, and the only semblance to "election" is > among the > 'derbhfine' (male-line relatives up to 2nd cousins) of the chiefly heir > or > claimant, assuming a dormant chiefship being revived. The English system > of > primogeniture succession imposed by conquest and force of arms, and > adopted by the > present Irish government, has not changed that and cannot lawfully do so. > > The O'Cahan > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >