Alanna, I didn't send the list but will give you some answers. There is no designated Chief of Clan Scanlan at this time. If and when the Clan organizes and has at least ten members, they could elect a Chief for their clan. Their title would be 'Hon' Chief of Clan Scanlan. I would suggest they contact The Clans of Ireland, Ltd to get registered also which will help build their membership. Information to help you get started is located here (http://www.araltas.com/features/scanlan/). Scanlan is an old gaelic family. They are cousins to O'Brien and Mahon. In O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees you will find Scanlan as number 98 Turlogh on the O'Brien of Thomond pedigree (No. 1). Turlogh's son Ailgeanan who was the ancestor of O'Meara, Scanlan and MacArthur. Mahon is on the same pedigree and they descend from Mahon, son of Murtogh, son of Turlogh Mor O'Brien (d. 1086)(No 107) on the O'Brien pedigree. (Mac) Cotter Mac Coitir formerly MacOitir. This is an old Gaelic-Irish family though their name is formed from a Norse personal name. Ballymacotter locates their homeland. (Co. Cork). (from Irish Surnames by MacLysaght). Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alanna Scanlon" <alannal@prodigy.net> To: "IRL-CLARE" <IRL-CLARE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > Dear Sir, > > I see my surname listed -- Scanlan. How would one know who is The Chief? Where would one find information about how this name became an Irish Sept? > > I also see the name Cotter, and O' Connor in the list. These are also my names. My Tadgh Scanlan married a Mahon who was suppose to be connected to Brian Boru. > > My Tadgh who lived in say the late 1700's or early 1800's may have escaped from Limerick to Co Clare. > > Many years ago, I post my lineage on a web site and someone became angry that I had said I descended from a Cotter. They said that the name did not exist. I just ignored the person. > > Thank you. > > Alanna > > padraigogealagain <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: > The arms to which MacLysaght refers and which fall in the category of sept arms include, but are not limited to the following ...O' Connor, Cotter, Scanlan, etc. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Two points, Mike,: 1). No serious genealogist of this age puts any credence on the works of O'Hart genealogies prior to the 16/17th. centuries. 2). Mac Lysaght [Surnames of Ireland] in writing about the O' Scanlans, as opposed to the Mac Scanlans who have the same Gaelic etymological root wrote: "(O) Scanlan - O Scanlain ( for derivation see Scannell). There were several Septs of this name (see map), the most important being of West" Munster [This writer's footnote: Not the ancestral territory of O'Brien/McNamara/McMahon in east Clare]. "There are no less that eight place-names embodying the surname in different parts of Ireland. The numerous Scanlans of Co. Clare mostly belong to the Connacht sept. Further north Scanlans are really as a rule Scannells. Bibl. IF Map Cork, Fermanagh and Galway" " (O) Scannell - O Scannail ( The early meaning of the word scannal is contention, not scandal). Properly a sept of north-west Ireland, it has become Scanlan in Co.Sligo, where Scanlans are really as a rule Scannells. IF Map Sligo." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike O'Brien" <mike@obrienclan.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > Alanna, > I didn't send the list but will give you some answers. > There is no designated Chief of Clan Scanlan at this time. If and when > the Clan organizes and has at least ten members, they could elect a Chief > for their clan. Their title would be 'Hon' Chief of Clan Scanlan. I > would suggest they contact The Clans of Ireland, Ltd to get registered > also which will help build their membership. Information to help you get > started is located here (http://www.araltas.com/features/scanlan/). > > Scanlan is an old gaelic family. They are cousins to O'Brien and Mahon. > In O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees you will find Scanlan as number 98 Turlogh on > the O'Brien of Thomond pedigree (No. 1). Turlogh's son Ailgeanan who was > the ancestor of O'Meara, Scanlan and MacArthur. > > Mahon is on the same pedigree and they descend from Mahon, son of Murtogh, > son of Turlogh Mor O'Brien (d. 1086)(No 107) on the O'Brien pedigree. > >SNIP>> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alanna Scanlon" <alannal@prodigy.net> > To: "IRL-CLARE" <IRL-CLARE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:34 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > > >> Dear Sir, >> >> I see my surname listed -- Scanlan. How would one know who is The >> Chief? Where would one find information about how this name became an >> Irish Sept? >> >> I also see the name Cotter, and O' Connor in the list. These are also >> my names. My Tadgh Scanlan married a Mahon who was suppose to be >> connected to Brian Boru. >> >> My Tadgh who lived in say the late 1700's or early 1800's may have >> escaped from Limerick to Co Clare. >> >> Many years ago, I post my lineage on a web site and someone became angry >> that I had said I descended from a Cotter. They said that the name did >> not exist. I just ignored the person. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Alanna >> >> padraigogealagain <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: >> The arms to which MacLysaght refers and which fall in the category of >> sept arms include, but are not limited to the following ...O' Connor, >> Cotter, Scanlan, etc. >>

One more point, Padraig: 1. No serious genealogist of this age puts any credence in any one works. I use O'Hart, O'Laughlin, MacLysaght, Keating, Bell and the Four Masters. According to O'Laughlin (The Book of Irish Families Great & Small): O'Scanlan Scannlain, O'Scannell, Scanlan, Scanlane, Skanlane Families of the name of Scanlon can find their family commemorated in place names such as Ballyscanlon, Ballymacscanlon, Scanlansland and Scanlans Island in Ireland. Those of the name may find origins from one of several different family lines. Some descend from Mac Scannlain of Louth, others from O'Scannlain of the province of Munster, and others still from O'Scannell of the north of Ireland in counties Sligo and Donegal. These names have been interchanged from time to time, so origins maybe difficult to determine without some specific research. Keatings History gives the family of O'Scanlon in Co. Kerry, and again separately in Co. Limerick in the barony of Pubblebrien, along with the MacArthur family. In the older territory of Oriel we find "MacScannlain" centered at Ballymacscanlan, in the barony of Lower Dundalk barony in Co. Louth. In more modern times the family had faded from view there. Counties, Kerry, Clare and Sligo were all principal locations for the name of Scanlon in the 17th century. Scannell was a principal name of Cork and Kerry at that time, as it was later in the 1890 birth index. That index shows 54 births of Scanlon and 42 births of Scanlan, concentrated in Kerry, Clare, Sligo, Limerick and Cork. You will notice here that this also coincides the fact that both Scanlan and MacArthur lived in the same area in Co limerick as O'Hart had indicated. I agree that there will always be several branches from different areas of most families. O'Hart shows O'Brien with 12 pedigrees. Ten pedigrees in Munster and two pedigrees in Ulster. The two in Ulster are not of the same line as the other 10. The only way to know is to trace the lineage back. So far I am back to Co Limerick (1824). No town or parish nor parents names. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "padraigogealagain" <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > Two points, Mike,: > 1). No serious genealogist of this age puts any credence on the works of > O'Hart genealogies prior to the 16/17th. centuries. > > 2). Mac Lysaght [Surnames of Ireland] in writing about the O' Scanlans, as > opposed to the Mac Scanlans who have the same Gaelic etymological root > wrote: > > "(O) Scanlan - O Scanlain ( for derivation see Scannell). There were > several Septs of this name (see map), the most important being of West" > Munster [This writer's footnote: Not the ancestral territory of > O'Brien/McNamara/McMahon in east Clare]. "There are no less that eight > place-names embodying the surname in different parts of Ireland. The > numerous Scanlans of Co. Clare mostly belong to the Connacht sept. Further > north Scanlans are really as a rule Scannells. Bibl. IF Map Cork, > Fermanagh > and Galway" > > " (O) Scannell - O Scannail ( The early meaning of the word scannal is > contention, not scandal). Properly a sept of north-west Ireland, it has > become Scanlan in Co.Sligo, where Scanlans are really as a rule Scannells. > IF Map Sligo." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike O'Brien" <mike@obrienclan.com> > To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > > >> Alanna, >> I didn't send the list but will give you some answers. >> There is no designated Chief of Clan Scanlan at this time. If and when >> the Clan organizes and has at least ten members, they could elect a Chief >> for their clan. Their title would be 'Hon' Chief of Clan Scanlan. I >> would suggest they contact The Clans of Ireland, Ltd to get registered >> also which will help build their membership. Information to help you get >> started is located here (http://www.araltas.com/features/scanlan/). >> >> Scanlan is an old gaelic family. They are cousins to O'Brien and Mahon. >> In O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees you will find Scanlan as number 98 Turlogh on >> the O'Brien of Thomond pedigree (No. 1). Turlogh's son Ailgeanan who was >> the ancestor of O'Meara, Scanlan and MacArthur. >> >> Mahon is on the same pedigree and they descend from Mahon, son of >> Murtogh, >> son of Turlogh Mor O'Brien (d. 1086)(No 107) on the O'Brien pedigree. >> >>SNIP>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alanna Scanlon" <alannal@prodigy.net> >> To: "IRL-CLARE" <IRL-CLARE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) >> >> >>> Dear Sir, >>> >>> I see my surname listed -- Scanlan. How would one know who is The >>> Chief? Where would one find information about how this name became an >>> Irish Sept? >>> >>> I also see the name Cotter, and O' Connor in the list. These are also >>> my names. My Tadgh Scanlan married a Mahon who was suppose to be >>> connected to Brian Boru. >>> >>> My Tadgh who lived in say the late 1700's or early 1800's may have >>> escaped from Limerick to Co Clare. >>> >>> Many years ago, I post my lineage on a web site and someone became >>> angry >>> that I had said I descended from a Cotter. They said that the name did >>> not exist. I just ignored the person. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Alanna >>> >>> padraigogealagain <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: >>> The arms to which MacLysaght refers and which fall in the category of >>> sept arms include, but are not limited to the following ...O' Connor, >>> Cotter, Scanlan, etc. >>> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

> The only way to know is to trace the lineage back. So far I am back to Co > Limerick (1824). No town or parish nor parents names. Well, Mike, that is a 'BRICK WALL' I hope you can demolish it. I, fortunately, have documentation to direct Galligan ancestors of Cahercorney, Co.Limerick - but then my ancestors, thankfully, were not of the 'Diaspora". In fact I was born there. I think I'll declare myself the 'The' of the sub-sept of Co. Limerick :-) ! Ha, ha! Well said, Mike, about particularly O'Hart, but a lot of mis-informed knowledge - or wishful thinking - is (and not can be) very conflicting; it tends to 'muddy the waters" The stuff you gave Alanna on pre-16/17th centuries of the O'Hart genealogies has long being declared by learned and well educated genealogists, in the Irish expression as 'Rawmeash' ( pure rubbish) "! Why even Mac Lysaght said ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike O'Brien" <mike@obrienclan.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > One more point, Padraig: > 1. No serious genealogist of this age puts any credence in any one works. > I > use O'Hart, O'Laughlin, MacLysaght, Keating, Bell and the Four Masters. > SNIP> > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "padraigogealagain" <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> > To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:47 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > > >> Two points, Mike,: >> 1). No serious genealogist of this age puts any credence on the works of >> O'Hart genealogies prior to the 16/17th. centuries. >> >> 2). Mac Lysaght [Surnames of Ireland] in writing about the O' Scanlans, >> as >> opposed to the Mac Scanlans who have the same Gaelic etymological root >> wrote: >> >> "(O) Scanlan - O Scanlain ( for derivation see Scannell). There were >> several Septs of this name (see map), the most important being of West" >> Munster [This writer's footnote: Not the ancestral territory of >> O'Brien/McNamara/McMahon in east Clare]. "There are no less that eight >> place-names embodying the surname in different parts of Ireland. The >> numerous Scanlans of Co. Clare mostly belong to the Connacht sept. >> Further >> north Scanlans are really as a rule Scannells. Bibl. IF Map Cork, >> Fermanagh >> and Galway" >> >> " (O) Scannell - O Scannail ( The early meaning of the word scannal is >> contention, not scandal). Properly a sept of north-west Ireland, it has >> become Scanlan in Co.Sligo, where Scanlans are really as a rule >> Scannells. >> IF Map Sligo." >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike O'Brien" <mike@obrienclan.com> >> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) >> >> >>> Alanna, >>> I didn't send the list but will give you some answers. >>> There is no designated Chief of Clan Scanlan at this time. If and when >>> the Clan organizes and has at least ten members, they could elect a >>> Chief >>> for their clan. Their title would be 'Hon' Chief of Clan Scanlan. I >>> would suggest they contact The Clans of Ireland, Ltd to get registered >>> also which will help build their membership. Information to help you >>> get >>> started is located here (http://www.araltas.com/features/scanlan/). >>> >>> Scanlan is an old gaelic family. They are cousins to O'Brien and Mahon. >>> In O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees you will find Scanlan as number 98 Turlogh >>> on >>> the O'Brien of Thomond pedigree (No. 1). Turlogh's son Ailgeanan who was >>> the ancestor of O'Meara, Scanlan and MacArthur. >>> >>> Mahon is on the same pedigree and they descend from Mahon, son of >>> Murtogh, >>> son of Turlogh Mor O'Brien (d. 1086)(No 107) on the O'Brien pedigree. >>> >>>SNIP>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Alanna Scanlon" <alannal@prodigy.net> >>> To: "IRL-CLARE" <IRL-CLARE-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part >>> 1) >>> >>> >>>> Dear Sir, >>>> >>>> I see my surname listed -- Scanlan. How would one know who is The >>>> Chief? Where would one find information about how this name became an >>>> Irish Sept? >>>> >>>> I also see the name Cotter, and O' Connor in the list. These are also >>>> my names. My Tadgh Scanlan married a Mahon who was suppose to be >>>> connected to Brian Boru. >>>> >>>> My Tadgh who lived in say the late 1700's or early 1800's may have >>>> escaped from Limerick to Co Clare. >>>> >>>> Many years ago, I post my lineage on a web site and someone became >>>> angry >>>> that I had said I descended from a Cotter. They said that the name did >>>> not exist. I just ignored the person. >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> Alanna >>>> >>>> padraigogealagain <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: >>>> The arms to which MacLysaght refers and which fall in the category >>>> of >>>> sept arms include, but are not limited to the following ...O' Connor, >>>> Cotter, Scanlan, etc. >>>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

G'Day Mike Could you advise on the situation with the Doherty name, I guess Dougherty, Doharty, Docherty, Dockerty, and probably originally O'Docataigh. Robert in Aus -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 9:19 AM To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) One more point, Padraig: 1. No serious genealogist of this age puts any credence in any one works. I use O'Hart, O'Laughlin, MacLysaght, Keating, Bell and the Four Masters. According to O'Laughlin (The Book of Irish Families Great & Small): O'Scanlan Scannlain, O'Scannell, Scanlan, Scanlane, Skanlane Families of the name of Scanlon can find their family commemorated in place names such as Ballyscanlon, Ballymacscanlon, Scanlansland and Scanlans Island in Ireland. Those of the name may find origins from one of several different family lines. Some descend from Mac Scannlain of Louth, others from O'Scannlain of the province of Munster, and others still from O'Scannell of the north of Ireland in counties Sligo and Donegal. These names have been interchanged from time to time, so origins maybe difficult to determine without some specific research. Keatings History gives the family of O'Scanlon in Co. Kerry, and again separately in Co. Limerick in the barony of Pubblebrien, along with the MacArthur family. In the older territory of Oriel we find "MacScannlain" centered at Ballymacscanlan, in the barony of Lower Dundalk barony in Co. Louth. In more modern times the family had faded from view there. Counties, Kerry, Clare and Sligo were all principal locations for the name of Scanlon in the 17th century. Scannell was a principal name of Cork and Kerry at that time, as it was later in the 1890 birth index. That index shows 54 births of Scanlon and 42 births of Scanlan, concentrated in Kerry, Clare, Sligo, Limerick and Cork. You will notice here that this also coincides the fact that both Scanlan and MacArthur lived in the same area in Co limerick as O'Hart had indicated. I agree that there will always be several branches from different areas of most families. O'Hart shows O'Brien with 12 pedigrees. Ten pedigrees in Munster and two pedigrees in Ulster. The two in Ulster are not of the same line as the other 10. The only way to know is to trace the lineage back. So far I am back to Co Limerick (1824). No town or parish nor parents names. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "padraigogealagain" <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > Two points, Mike,: > 1). No serious genealogist of this age puts any credence on the works of > O'Hart genealogies prior to the 16/17th. centuries. > > 2). Mac Lysaght [Surnames of Ireland] in writing about the O' Scanlans, as > opposed to the Mac Scanlans who have the same Gaelic etymological root > wrote: > > "(O) Scanlan - O Scanlain ( for derivation see Scannell). There were > several Septs of this name (see map), the most important being of West" > Munster [This writer's footnote: Not the ancestral territory of > O'Brien/McNamara/McMahon in east Clare]. "There are no less that eight > place-names embodying the surname in different parts of Ireland. The > numerous Scanlans of Co. Clare mostly belong to the Connacht sept. Further > north Scanlans are really as a rule Scannells. Bibl. IF Map Cork, > Fermanagh > and Galway" > > " (O) Scannell - O Scannail ( The early meaning of the word scannal is > contention, not scandal). Properly a sept of north-west Ireland, it has > become Scanlan in Co.Sligo, where Scanlans are really as a rule Scannells. > IF Map Sligo." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike O'Brien" <mike@obrienclan.com> > To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) > > >> Alanna, >> I didn't send the list but will give you some answers. >> There is no designated Chief of Clan Scanlan at this time. If and when >> the Clan organizes and has at least ten members, they could elect a Chief >> for their clan. Their title would be 'Hon' Chief of Clan Scanlan. I >> would suggest they contact The Clans of Ireland, Ltd to get registered >> also which will help build their membership. Information to help you get >> started is located here (http://www.araltas.com/features/scanlan/). >> >> Scanlan is an old gaelic family. They are cousins to O'Brien and Mahon. >> In O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees you will find Scanlan as number 98 Turlogh on >> the O'Brien of Thomond pedigree (No. 1). Turlogh's son Ailgeanan who was >> the ancestor of O'Meara, Scanlan and MacArthur. >> >> Mahon is on the same pedigree and they descend from Mahon, son of >> Murtogh, >> son of Turlogh Mor O'Brien (d. 1086)(No 107) on the O'Brien pedigree. >> >>SNIP>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alanna Scanlon" <alannal@prodigy.net> >> To: "IRL-CLARE" <IRL-CLARE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:34 PM >> Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] The Arms of Irish Septs- An Explanation (Part 1) >> >> >>> Dear Sir, >>> >>> I see my surname listed -- Scanlan. How would one know who is The >>> Chief? Where would one find information about how this name became an >>> Irish Sept? >>> >>> I also see the name Cotter, and O' Connor in the list. These are also >>> my names. My Tadgh Scanlan married a Mahon who was suppose to be >>> connected to Brian Boru. >>> >>> My Tadgh who lived in say the late 1700's or early 1800's may have >>> escaped from Limerick to Co Clare. >>> >>> Many years ago, I post my lineage on a web site and someone became >>> angry >>> that I had said I descended from a Cotter. They said that the name did >>> not exist. I just ignored the person. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Alanna >>> >>> padraigogealagain <padraigogealagain@rogers.com> wrote: >>> The arms to which MacLysaght refers and which fall in the category of >>> sept arms include, but are not limited to the following ...O' Connor, >>> Cotter, Scanlan, etc. >>> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message