Your best sources are obviously the English census records and then the civil birth records for England, using the Free BMD indexes. In addition to the 1871 and 1881 census records that you mentioned, I found the family in 1861, again in Harlington, with children Patrick, age 3 born in West Drayton, Middlesex County, and Johanna, age 11 months born in Harlington, Middlesex. The 1871 census has those 2 children as well as John, age 8, and Denis, age 5. Jumping over to _http://www.freebmd.org.uk_ (http://www.freebmd.org.uk) , I found a birth for Patrick Carmady, recorded in the first quarter (March) of 1858 in the district of Uxbridge, Middlesex. West Drayton is part of the district of Uxbridge. I also found the birth of John Cormady, recorded in the third quarter (Sep) of 1862 in the district of Staines, Middlesex. Harlington is part of the district of Staines. The places and the ages are right so I am comfortable that these are your family. When using the index, the key is to check the box for using phonetic spellings. You can use the links in the freebmd website to go the GRO website and order the birth record of John or Patrick. They take credit cards and are very prompt in processing orders - I've gotten one in less than a week mailed to the US - and the cost is 9.25 pounds. The birth record will have their mother's maiden name. I was not able to find any marriage record for a Denis Carmody under any spelling. So it may be that he and Johanna were married in Ireland. Once you have a maiden name, you can narrow your search. If you need some help working through the ordering process for the birth certificate, let me know. Once you have it, the list may be able to help you with the next step. Theresa Liewer Ankeny, Iowa In a message dated 5/17/2011 9:48:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: