"P.J. CLEARY, proprietor of the West Denver Boiler Works, was born in County Clare, Ireland, in 1845, the son of John and Margaret (Rohan) Cleary, also natives of the Emerald Isle. John Cleary was employed as pound master in Ireland, and died there in 1849, at the age of twenty-seven. Afterward Mrs. Cleary was married to M. Ryan, who was for years foreman of the New York Central Railroad at Rochester. In 1849 the family, comprising two children, our subject and a sister, were brought by the mother to America, and for a time lived in New York City, but later moved to Rochester, where she died at sixty-seven years. The daughter, Annie, now resides in Brooklyn. In 1850 an uncle of our subject, James Cleary, came with his mother to America and located in Grand Rapids, Mich., but later removed to La Salle, Ill., where the grandmother died at a very advanced age, and the uncle still makes his home, being retired from active business. .... At the age of eleven, our subject began to work on a farm in Mendon, Monroe County, N. Y., and at the age of sixteen he was apprenticed as a boiler maker in the New York Central & Hudson River Railroad shops at Rochester, where he served his time. Later he was employed by Chapin & Terry, boiler manufacturers of Rochester, and afterward was with Woodbury, Booth & Co., of the same city. December 8, 1868, he went to Omaha, Neb., where he was employed by the Union Pacific Railroad Company and by them sent to Laramie, Wyo., as boiler maker in the car shops. He arrived in Wyoming just before New Year's, 1869, and continued there until April 5, when he was transferred back to the Omaha shops, remaining in them until 1872. He then returned east and worked at his trade in Corning, N. Y., for a few months, then was at Painted Post, Addison and Elmira, in the latter place being foreman in charge of the boiler shops for three years and seven months for the La France Fire Engine Manufacturing Company. Early in 1879 he started west, and reaching Stewart, Iowa, worked there for five months, then in the fall of the same year came to Golden, Colo., where he was made foreman in the boiler department of the Union Pacific shops. This position he held until 1883, after which he was foreman in the Denver & New Orleans Railroad shops about four months, and for seventeen months foreman in what is now the Engineering Works of Denver. In the fall of 1884 he went to Evanston, Wyo., where he worked at his trade about six months. On his return to Denver he accepted a place as foreman with the F. M. Davis Iron Works Company, with whom he remained for five years and five months, then resigned in order to start in business for himself. In July, 1890, he started in business as a member of the firm of Cleary & Campbell, but after eight months bought his partner's interest and has since run the works alone. He manufactures boilers and heavy sheet iron of all descriptions... In Rochester Mr. Cleary married Miss Mary A. Huck, daughter of Edward Huck, a cooper there. They have had ten sons and one daughter, but seven of these are deceased, viz.: John, Katie, William, George (1st), George (2d), Emil and Henry, who died between the ages of six months and eight years. Those living are Edward James, who is employed in the Hungarian Mills; William Tecumseh, Fred Joseph and Albert John Rohan, all of whom are employed in their father's shop..." http://www.memoriallibrary.com/CO/1898DenverPB/pages/pbrd0630.htm

Hi Joseph, 1 Irish acre is 1.62 statute acres or 1 statute acre is 0.617 Irish acres. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C Dorsey" <jcd622@sbcglobal.net> To: "Declan Barron" <newparkhouse.ennis@eircom.net>; <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > Declan, > > What is the difference between Irish acres and Statute acres? > > Thanks, > > Joseph > > > Declan Barron <newparkhouse.ennis@eircom.net> wrote: > Hi, > I think the Tithes are in Irish Acres and Griffith's in Statute acres, > Declan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:24 AM > Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > > >> In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the >> Griffith's >> Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied > differs >> significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years > apart, >> but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there > could >> have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among > occupiers, >> but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely > parish >> in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the > only >> one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar > differences >> in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. >> >> Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full > acreage >> of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living > quarters)? >> >> Ray FitzGerald >> Researching CHERRY >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you very much indeed for looking up these CASEYs, Toni. Greatly appreciated. No documented connection between my Tubber Caseys and the Ennis Caseys yet but various fragments suggest that they are from the same clone so your data is grist to the mill as the noose tightens. Pádraig (the Paddy that was) -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Toni Mason Sent: 02 October 2006 20:47 To: IRL-CLARE@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Index - BRENNAN, CARMODY,CASEY,COONEY BRENNAN - There were so many of these and you did not specify which area so I don't know which ones you are interested in. Might be worthwhile to get the film. CARMODY - Vol/page Bridget Ennis 9/251 Mary " 19/277 CASEY James Ennis 9/257 John " 19/403 Mary " 19/275 " " 4/282 Michael " 9/258 Patrick Killadysert 4/397 COONEY Bridget Limerick 15/393 " Tulla 9/572 Denis Limerick 10/460 " Tulla 9/564 Mary Limerick 10/465 Patrick Limerick 20/412 Source: FHL #0101043 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

And a statute acre is 4 roods (i.e. 160 perches) in size, so an Irish acre contains 6.48 roods or 259.2 perches. Pádraig (the Paddy that was) -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Walton Sent: 02 October 2006 20:23 To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation Hi Joseph, 1 Irish acre is 1.62 statute acres or 1 statute acre is 0.617 Irish acres. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C Dorsey" <jcd622@sbcglobal.net> To: "Declan Barron" <newparkhouse.ennis@eircom.net>; <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > Declan, > > What is the difference between Irish acres and Statute acres? > > Thanks, > > Joseph > > > Declan Barron <newparkhouse.ennis@eircom.net> wrote: > Hi, > I think the Tithes are in Irish Acres and Griffith's in Statute acres, > Declan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:24 AM > Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > > >> In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the >> Griffith's >> Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied > differs >> significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years > apart, >> but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there > could >> have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among > occupiers, >> but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely > parish >> in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the > only >> one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar > differences >> in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. >> >> Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full > acreage >> of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living > quarters)? >> >> Ray FitzGerald >> Researching CHERRY >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Never mind Sharon, tomorrow is another day and we will eventually find the information that we are seeking !! My labourer Dillon ancestors possibly moved to Coolistoonan from Limerick but I cannot confirm that. If only I could find where my great grandfather William Dillon was born about 1835 it would help. It possibly was in the Clonlea/Kilkishen area but unfortunately too early for the records. Best Wishes Ernene -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Carberry Sent: Sunday, 1 October 2006 10:52 PM To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] confused re posts Ernene, I am going to have to disappoint you about this. The promised posting was done - it was the one on the Grace families of Kilkishen and Kilrush (Coolmeen). There is no known direct connection to my family. However this apparent relationship between the Graces of Kilkishen and Kilrush is a documentable demonstration of what we could have expected as to a spread around the county of the descendants of a man listed in the Tithe Applotment or Griffiths Valuation. I would like to see something similar developed for laborers working on estates of a chief landholding family, such as the Studderts, who owned property all over the county. Then we could have a research direction to take when able-bodied men disappear from a parish, as to what other parishes to check for them. My Patrick Carberry had his marriage recorded in the parish of O'Callaghan Mills in Jan 1950 and then had his first two children born in Ireland before 1854, in an unknown parish. Evictions were actively being done in the Kilkishen area as of Dec. 1849, which is when the family of Patrick's wife-to-be was pushed out of Clashduff. It may well be that the landlord was clearing his lands of this undesirable tenantry and that Patrick was directed to move into a different parish to work on the landlord's land there or to await a suitable landlord-assisted voyage. Sharon

Hi Steve Sure have checked out the site and have made various family contacts. I thought I might take it one step further and see how I go with overseas research. Thank you for the tip though Maria Thomas LAKE MUNMORAH, NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Haynes" <stephay@ozemail.com.au> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] FOLEY & COLLINS FAMILY Hello Maria, have you checked out the Monaro Pioneers website, you may find something there. Regards Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "M & M Thomas" <m.mthomas@bigpond.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] FOLEY & COLLINS FAMILY Hi Robert in Melb >From the certificates I do have I know the family name varies from CONNORS, CONNOR & O'CONNOR. As far as I am aware the family moved to the Monaro Area in south-eastern NSW when they arrived and spread to Victoria and Far North Eastern NSW. Sorry, but definitely not in the Port Phillip area, well at least as far as I know :-))))) Maria Thomas LAKE MUNMORAH, NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Craig Doherty" <rdo40224@bigpond.net.au> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] FOLEY & COLLINS FAMILY Hi Maria I have Connor ancestors that come from the west of Clare, Ennis and Kilrush areas. The Connor I know of is John Connor who married Louisa Pilkington around 1820, they had a daughter Elizabeth Connor who married a William Doherty in Ennis in 1843. William and Elizabeth then came to Port Phillip in 1844. I don't know any more about the Connor family or if Connors and Connor are the same name, however it is something to put in your archive in case. Robert in Melb -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of M & M Thomas Sent: Thursday, 28 September 2006 2:08 PM To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] FOLEY & COLLINS FAMILY Hi Padraig Thank you for the tip - its exactly what I was looking for. As to your second paragraph, unfortunately I have no direct connections who are still arrive who may know, or have stories about the families. So I am already in the dark alley, fortunately there are other researchers who are distantly related to me also in the alley, so between us we come up with clues and with luck, concrete evidence which we chase. The FOLEY, COLLINS, CONNELLY & CONNORS family did do quite a bit of procreating, but they quite commonly died young (<50) and so there is little info passed down to grandchildren etc. I have yet to make contact with fellow researchers with these surnames from the families, those I am in contact with are all female lines. Now, I'm back off to do more reading :-) Maria Thomas LAKE MUNMORAH, NSW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Casey" <pcasey@compuserve.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] FOLEY & COLLINS FAMILY Maria, I have the impression that to prevent your quest developing into a goosechase up the wrong tree in a blind alley on a dark night you need some basic pointers to Irish genealogy sources relating to the early- and mid-19th century. Fairly recently on this list Sharon Carberry mentioned two or three manuals of Irish family history which you might like to read. They answer your general questions (marriages around 1845, births around 1825, sources of evidence of evidence of marriages, births, deaths etc). Sharon's list will be in the list archives or maybe Sharon might like to post it again. By the way, you say that the family you are trying to locate would have left Clare in late 1854. Don't let this assumption narrow your research. Close relatives of your emigrés may have remained in Clare and procreated, i.e. you may have quite close living relatives in Clare without your knowing it. To find these people, squeeze as much information as possible out of your Australian family and ethnically close acquaintances. Every little fragment. Interview the elderly before they can no longer be interviewed. Make sound recordings of the interviews because at a later date some little remark which you considered irrelevant and disregarded during the original interview may turn out to be the missing bit in the puzzle. Be persistent and ingenious in your questioning. Anything short of spotlight, rubber truncheons and truth serum. Don't decide that you are too busy for this. By the time you are no longer busy your sources will be dead and you will regret it. I did, believe me. Pádraig (the Paddy that was) -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of M & M Thomas Sent: 27 September 2006 08:40 To: IRL-CLARE@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CLARE] FOLEY & COLLINS FAMILY Hi everyone Me again. I have been doing my homework (well a little anyway) and I seem to be going in circles a bit. I do now know where the family originated from and it will definitely be on my list of must visits :-))) I also am now building up a history of why they left Ireland. When I have searched the Clare Library site, which I agree is wonderful, I am in a little difficulty. The family I am trying to locate would have left Clare in late 1854. The names I have for both Mary Ann FOLEY's parents and Michael Martin COLLINS's parents do appear frequently through the listings, and their siblings christian names. Where would I look to confirm marriages around 1845 and births around 1825. And I am a person who likes to leave a paper trail, so I am looking for concrete (hold in my hand) evidence of marriages, births, deaths etc. Thank you in advance Maria Thomas LAKE MUNMORAH, NSW ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Toni, I am researching Casey in Ennis and some of the names listed match some of my Casey ancestors. However, I don't know what index you are referring to, could you enlighten me? Many thanks, Joan Floegel

Hi, I think the Tithes are in Irish Acres and Griffith's in Statute acres, Declan ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rfitzg@aol.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:24 AM Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the Griffith's > Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied differs > significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years apart, > but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there could > have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among occupiers, > but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely parish > in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the only > one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar differences > in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. > > Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full acreage > of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living quarters)? > > Ray FitzGerald > Researching CHERRY > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

BRENNAN - There were so many of these and you did not specify which area so I don't know which ones you are interested in. Might be worthwhile to get the film. CARMODY - Vol/page Bridget Ennis 9/251 Mary " 19/277 CASEY James Ennis 9/257 John " 19/403 Mary " 19/275 " " 4/282 Michael " 9/258 Patrick Killadysert 4/397 COONEY Bridget Limerick 15/393 " Tulla 9/572 Denis Limerick 10/460 " Tulla 9/564 Mary Limerick 10/465 Patrick Limerick 20/412 Source: FHL #0101043

Thank You Padraig......jcd Patrick Casey <pcasey@compuserve.com> wrote: And a statute acre is 4 roods (i.e. 160 perches) in size, so an Irish acre contains 6.48 roods or 259.2 perches. Pádraig (the Paddy that was) -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Walton Sent: 02 October 2006 20:23 To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation Hi Joseph, 1 Irish acre is 1.62 statute acres or 1 statute acre is 0.617 Irish acres. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C Dorsey" To: "Declan Barron" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > Declan, > > What is the difference between Irish acres and Statute acres? > > Thanks, > > Joseph > > > Declan Barron wrote: > Hi, > I think the Tithes are in Irish Acres and Griffith's in Statute acres, > Declan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:24 AM > Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > > >> In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the >> Griffith's >> Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied > differs >> significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years > apart, >> but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there > could >> have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among > occupiers, >> but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely > parish >> in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the > only >> one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar > differences >> in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. >> >> Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full > acreage >> of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living > quarters)? >> >> Ray FitzGerald >> Researching CHERRY >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, John, I had no idea there was a difference. Joseph John Walton <vabre@optusnet.com.au> wrote: Hi Joseph, 1 Irish acre is 1.62 statute acres or 1 statute acre is 0.617 Irish acres. John. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C Dorsey" To: "Declan Barron" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > Declan, > > What is the difference between Irish acres and Statute acres? > > Thanks, > > Joseph > > > Declan Barron wrote: > Hi, > I think the Tithes are in Irish Acres and Griffith's in Statute acres, > Declan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:24 AM > Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > > >> In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the >> Griffith's >> Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied > differs >> significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years > apart, >> but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there > could >> have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among > occupiers, >> but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely > parish >> in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the > only >> one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar > differences >> in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. >> >> Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full > acreage >> of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living > quarters)? >> >> Ray FitzGerald >> Researching CHERRY >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pat, There is no index, The Journal is published by the Irish Family History Society, P.O. Box 36, Naas, Co. Kildare. Members can have inquiries published in the Journal, Declan ----- Original Message ----- From: <Shanalain@aol.com> To: <IRL-CLARE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 2:47 AM Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Journal of the Irish Family History Society > I am interested in knowing more about the IFHS and the Irish Family Journal. > Is there an index of family names for the journal. Is the information > attainable in person or do they have someone who does inquiries/look-ups? Thanks, > pat > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Declan, What is the difference between Irish acres and Statute acres? Thanks, Joseph Declan Barron <newparkhouse.ennis@eircom.net> wrote: Hi, I think the Tithes are in Irish Acres and Griffith's in Statute acres, Declan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:24 AM Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the Griffith's > Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied differs > significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years apart, > but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there could > have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among occupiers, > but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely parish > in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the only > one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar differences > in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. > > Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full acreage > of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living quarters)? > > Ray FitzGerald > Researching CHERRY > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sharon, sorry I have not replied, we had a little holiday and I have been busy with the little ones since we came back so I have not had time to post. I am looking forward to your information, don't keep me in suspense for too long !!! Ernene -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Carberry Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 9:41 PM To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] confused re posts Thank goodness, Ernene, that things settled out for you and that you can now post at will. We need to keep sharing what we find, between ourselves and with the modern-day equivalent of our East Clare community. I made a very interesting discovery yesterday, but I want to follow it up with some census digging today. So, watch this space for an apparent direct link between Kilkishen and Kilrush, at least for one of our families, one which you would not have suspected. Sharon Carberry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernene Smedley" <ernene@tpg.com.au> To: <IRL-CLARE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 4:11 AM Subject: [IRL-CLARE] confused re posts > I am sending this as a test to see if I am able to post to the list after > having my emails bounce. > > > > Thanks to Chris Goopy for contacting the list on my behalf and to Ellen > Crehan for your reply. > > > > Thanks also to Bob Brooks for your reply to Chris. However, I only have one > email address which I have had for 2 years. Bob, I did not send any blind > copy to my knowledge. I only received that message once, all other postings > just bounced. > > > > All I can do is see if this one goes through and if not, I will contact > Cara. > > > > Regards > > > > Ernene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 9/19/2006 > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Webpage built around materials from a book entitled The Story of the Irish Pub: an Intoxicating History of the Licensed Trade in Ireland, by Cian Molloy. http://www.hoganstand.com/general/identity/extras/inn/stories/clare.htm A fascinating description of the rules governing drinking in Ireland in earlier years, and how the populace dealt with the restrictions. Includes this description of my Clashduff (now Kilkishen) rellies: "Brother and sister, Patrick and Nancy Donnellon run the well known Donnellon's pub in Kilkishen. The pub was originally founded as a licensed grocery by their grandfather, Patrick Donnellon. He was the son of a tenant farmer but they were evicted from their small holding inClassduff, two miles from Kilkishen in the 1850's. However, the family survived and thrived and by 1870, when Patrick married Kate Corbett from Scariff, he was able to describe himself as a publican on his marriage certificate. In 1922 the pub passed on to Patrick's son, John Donnellon, when he married Ellen Flannery. They built up the business and added a bakery to the grocery. During the war of Independence, the pub was ransacked by British troops who took all the spirit bottles from the back of the bar. However, the Donnellons had the last laugh as the brandy and whiskey bottles contained only coloured water." I have a small correction to make to that description, as I have (through the generosity of Ciaran Murtchagh (spelling is not right)), the 12 Dec 1849 article in the Limerick and Clare Examiner which provided the names of those evicted on Dec. 6th, which includes my Michael Donnellan's widow and 3 children, but also Pat Donnellan's widow and 5 children, and John Donnellan's widow and 4 children, as well as the families of Thomas, Michael, and James Grace. John Donnellan's widow's brother married Bridget Grace, and the Graces were baptismal sponsors for the children of John Donnellan and Timothy Donnellan, the latter of whom was able to stay in Clashduff. Other families and locations described: Bohan's of Feakle, originally owned by the Fitzgeralds Browne's of Parteen Clarecastle pub, Daniel O'Brien to Patrick Power in 1872 Roadside Tavern, Lisdoonvarna, Pierce Creagh to Christopher Curtin in 1893 posted by Sharon Carberry

Ray, Remember that this was a time of enormous social movement. During the latter part of those 30 years a very large part of the population emigrated, voluntarily or otherwise, moved to the workhouse, or died of hunger and/or disease and/or exhaustion. Of those who survived or remained, many were unable to pay the rents of their lands and were thrown off them or found a landlord down the road who was offering a better deal that week. Hence the differences between the Tithes and Griffiths. The Tithe Applotment listed the - townland - names of Occupiers - Quantities in Detail (acres, roods and perches) - Quality (arable, inferior arable, rocky pasture, turbary, etc) - Total Quantity in Holding - Total Quantity in Townland - Rents Paid - Real Acreable Value Landlords' names were noted in the 'Townland' column on the left of the page. Pádraig (the Paddy that was) -----Original Message----- From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rfitzg@aol.com Sent: 01 October 2006 03:25 To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the Griffith's Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied differs significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years apart, but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there could have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among occupiers, but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely parish in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the only one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar differences in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full acreage of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living quarters)? Ray FitzGerald Researching CHERRY ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tithe Applotment concerned the tithe placed on all Irish whether they be Catholic or another denomination. Griffith's Valuation was a land survey. The former was about 1824 and the latter started about 1847/1848. Tithe Applotment records do no necessarily list all the tenants a particular landlord had. It may list only the landlord. It varied. In our research in we have never found ancestors listed in Tithe applotments only their landlord. However, I know that fellow researchers in some instances were quite lucky. They found family listed by name and even children. Rfitzg@aol.com wrote: In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the Griffith's Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied differs significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years apart, but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there could have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among occupiers, but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely parish in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the only one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar differences in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full acreage of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living quarters)? Ray FitzGerald Researching CHERRY ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My understanding of why there was a difference is that the Tithes were based on crops produced, whilst meadows, bogs, and mountain scruff land not producing a marketable product were exempt from Tithes. ***** Reply to the LIST ONLY - Please ***** ***** Thanks for your consideration ***** Pádraig Mór, An Sean Gabhar ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rfitzg@aol.com> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:24 PM Subject: [IRL-CLARE] Tithe Applotment vs. Griffith Valuation > In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the Griffith's > Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied > differs > significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years > apart, > but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there > could > have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among > occupiers, > but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely > parish > in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the > only > one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar > differences > in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. > > Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full > acreage > of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living > quarters)? > > Ray FitzGerald > Researching CHERRY >

Ernene, I am going to have to disappoint you about this. The promised posting was done - it was the one on the Grace families of Kilkishen and Kilrush (Coolmeen). There is no known direct connection to my family. However this apparent relationship between the Graces of Kilkishen and Kilrush is a documentable demonstration of what we could have expected as to a spread around the county of the descendants of a man listed in the Tithe Applotment or Griffiths Valuation. I would like to see something similar developed for laborers working on estates of a chief landholding family, such as the Studderts, who owned property all over the county. Then we could have a research direction to take when able-bodied men disappear from a parish, as to what other parishes to check for them. My Patrick Carberry had his marriage recorded in the parish of O'Callaghan Mills in Jan 1950 and then had his first two children born in Ireland before 1854, in an unknown parish. Evictions were actively being done in the Kilkishen area as of Dec. 1849, which is when the family of Patrick's wife-to-be was pushed out of Clashduff. It may well be that the landlord was clearing his lands of this undesirable tenantry and that Patrick was directed to move into a different parish to work on the landlord's land there or to await a suitable landlord-assisted voyage. Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernene Smedley" <ernene@tpg.com.au> To: <irl-clare@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] confused re posts > Sharon, sorry I have not replied, we had a little holiday and I have been > busy with the little ones since we came back so I have not had time to post. > I am looking forward to your information, don't keep me in suspense for too > long !!! > > Ernene > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-clare-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Sharon Carberry > Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 9:41 PM > To: irl-clare@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CLARE] confused re posts > > Thank goodness, Ernene, that things settled out for you and > that you can now post at will. We need to keep sharing > what we find, between ourselves and with the modern-day > equivalent of our East Clare community. > > I made a very interesting discovery yesterday, but I want to follow it up > with some census digging today. So, watch this space for an apparent direct > link between Kilkishen and Kilrush, at least for one of our families, one > which you would not have suspected. > > Sharon Carberry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernene Smedley" <ernene@tpg.com.au> > To: <IRL-CLARE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 4:11 AM > Subject: [IRL-CLARE] confused re posts > > > > I am sending this as a test to see if I am able to post to the list after > > having my emails bounce. > > > > > > > > Thanks to Chris Goopy for contacting the list on my behalf and to Ellen > > Crehan for your reply. > > > > > > > > Thanks also to Bob Brooks for your reply to Chris. However, I only have > one > > email address which I have had for 2 years. Bob, I did not send any blind > > copy to my knowledge. I only received that message once, all other > postings > > just bounced. > > > > > > > > All I can do is see if this one goes through and if not, I will contact > > Cara. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Ernene > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 9/19/2006 > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CLARE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.10/459 - Release Date: 9/29/2006 > >

In looking at land records in both the Tithe Applotment and the Griffith's Valuation Survey, I find that the listed acreage on the land occupied differs significantly. I realize that the two surveys was taken thirty years apart, but the many of the same families appear in both. I also realize there could have been aggregation or dis-aggregation of land "holdings" among occupiers, but in the case of my ancestors' townland (Ballyvoughallan in Killeely parish in Clare) the size went from 20 acres to 173 acres and my family was the only one listed on that townland in both records. I noticed similar differences in my other ancestors townland in Co. Limerick as well. Does anyone know if the acreage in the Tithe Applotment was the full acreage of the farm or only a designated portion (e.g., quality, living quarters)? Ray FitzGerald Researching CHERRY