J.T. Pearson, et al.: Many years ago, when I was a freshman in college, I had a prof say "There is no more brutal war than one waged in the name of Religion. Both sides, except for the leadership, are driven by a self-rightous zeal in pursuing the ends espoused by their faction. It is incorrect to say, as you point out, that all Catholics hate Protestants or that all Protestents hate Catholics. Which, from a personal perspective, is very fortunate for me! Ian Paisley, is the "GEORGE WALLACE" of Ulster, he was also the biggest money raiser that the IRA and Shien Fein ever had. This probably explains his longevity. But for too long he has been portrayed as the acrhetypical Ulster Orangeman/Protestent. He is not! Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness are NOT the archetypical Ulster Catholic for that matter. It is the politicians, and power brokers who keep this antagonism on the front burner so that they may retain power, and power equates with privaledge and money. Just look at the good old USofA today. Parades and celebrations are not, in and of themselves, foolish. What is foolish is a celebration where the celebrants have no idea of the true events which they are commerating. The Original Orangemen celebrated the Battle of Aughrim which took place in July of 1691, one year after the Battle of the Boyne which, courtesy of a young, bold, dashing, brave and none too bright cavalry commander named Sedgewick, gave James II a victory he apparently did not want. The Annual celebration of Aughrim is mentioned in one of Kay Stanton's transcription of "The ANGLO-CELT" not too long ago. James left Ireland the day after the Boyne, and William fled Ireland the day after that. War, all war, is the statement of the ultimate failure of the human spirit. Bill Golden, Green Harbor, Massachusetts _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/

Just read through all the posts and Bill, you are right on in your thoughts!!! Thank you for saying what needs to be said! Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland & Rosemary Golden" <margold56@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > J.T. Pearson, et al.: Many years ago, when I was a freshman in college, I > had a prof say "There is no more brutal war than one waged in the name of > Religion. Both sides, except for the leadership, are driven by a > self-rightous zeal in pursuing the ends espoused by their faction. It is > incorrect to say, as you point out, that all Catholics hate Protestants or > that all Protestents hate Catholics. Which, from a personal perspective, is > very fortunate for me! Ian Paisley, is the "GEORGE WALLACE" of Ulster, he > was also the biggest money raiser that the IRA and Shien Fein ever had. This > probably explains his longevity. But for too long he has been portrayed as > the acrhetypical Ulster Orangeman/Protestent. He is not! Gerry Adams and > Martin McGuiness are NOT the archetypical Ulster Catholic for that matter. > It is the politicians, and power brokers who keep this antagonism on the > front burner so that they may retain power, and power equates with > privaledge and money. Just look at the good old USofA today. > > Parades and celebrations are not, in and of themselves, foolish. What is > foolish is a celebration where the celebrants have no idea of the true > events which they are commerating. The Original Orangemen celebrated the > Battle of Aughrim which took place in July of 1691, one year after the > Battle of the Boyne which, courtesy of a young, bold, dashing, brave and > none too bright cavalry commander named Sedgewick, gave James II a victory > he apparently did not want. The Annual celebration of Aughrim is mentioned > in one of Kay Stanton's transcription of "The ANGLO-CELT" not too long ago. > James left Ireland the day after the Boyne, and William fled Ireland the day > after that. > > War, all war, is the statement of the ultimate failure of the human spirit. > Bill Golden, Green Harbor, Massachusetts > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN > >

Jane Pearson & Bill Wheeler J T Pearson Outdoor Training 12 Mountfort Street Outram New Zealand Tel. 643 486 1363 jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland & Rosemary Golden" <margold56@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > J.T. Pearson, et al.: Many years ago, when I was a freshman in college, I > had a prof say "There is no more brutal war than one waged in the name of > Religion. Both sides, except for the leadership, are driven by a > self-rightous zeal in pursuing the ends espoused by their faction. It is > incorrect to say, as you point out, that all Catholics hate Protestants or > that all Protestents hate Catholics. Which, from a personal perspective, is > very fortunate for me! Ian Paisley, is the "GEORGE WALLACE" of Ulster, ++ I'm sorry but who is George Wallace? he > was also the biggest money raiser that the IRA and Shien Fein ever had. ++ yes I always suspected that as well This > probably explains his longevity. But for too long he has been portrayed as > the acrhetypical Ulster Orangeman/Protestent. He is not! Gerry Adams and > Martin McGuiness are NOT the archetypical Ulster Catholic for that matter. > It is the politicians, and power brokers who keep this antagonism on the > front burner so that they may retain power, and power equates with > privaledge and money. Just look at the good old USofA today. ++ no arguements there. My problem with organisations SUCH AS the Orangemen is that they are the polite and public face of something unpleasant running much deeper. Although these organisations may not actively promote violence they can keep the bigotry and hatred going in the community long after it should have gone away. The more acceptable the front face the worse the problem as it becomes the norm for the community. > > Parades and celebrations are not, in and of themselves, foolish. What is > foolish is a celebration where the celebrants have no idea of the true > events which they are commerating. The Original Orangemen celebrated the > Battle of Aughrim which took place in July of 1691, one year after the > Battle of the Boyne which, courtesy of a young, bold, dashing, brave and > none too bright cavalry commander named Sedgewick, gave James II a victory > he apparently did not want. The Annual celebration of Aughrim is mentioned > in one of Kay Stanton's transcription of "The ANGLO-CELT" not too long ago. > James left Ireland the day after the Boyne, and William fled Ireland the day > after that. > > War, all war, is the statement of the ultimate failure of the human spirit. > Bill Golden, Green Harbor, Massachusetts > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN > >

To the original correspondant on this subject (sorry I delete all emails after reading and haven't got your name ...ooops) I remembered there is a web site which has the Ulster Roll on it. I've only visited the site once and didn't note the address (I never do) but it has a scanned copy containing names (male and female) and places of residence for those who signed it . My memory tells me it was a petition against becoming part of Ireland. I think the web site is maintained by Ulster Archives or Libraries , Cyndis list would probably be the best place to go looking for it. You might well find the family names you are looking for on it. Many Protestants signed it and it's a scan of the original. regards. Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz