Surely geneaology is more than just BD and M. It is the life and times of our ancestors and their social history. I confess to having got a bit "modern" in some of my comments but what's happening today is a product of history and worthy of study and comment, this is a discussion group after all. Co Cavan is in Ulster, home of the troubles, I don't think we can isolate ourselves from that, you only have to read the excellent Newspaper transcriptions to have the woes of the world as it was then brought home to you. regards Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: <CARADOC28@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > In a message dated 2/26/2004 2:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, > pne.anne@ntlworld.com writes: > > > > > > > > I do not think a genealogy message board is the place to discuss religion > > and politics. I do this hobby to take my mind off all the troubles in the > > world and I don't want to be reminded of them on here. I am trying to find > > out about my four lines of Irish ancestors which include three Catholic > > families and one Protestant family. > > > > yeah i agree but Not all Irish are all Protestant or all catholic mine are > mixed > and the reason they came to america as exciles is that in 1798 rebellion > whats not known is it was a protestant catholic rebellion. > In Ireland separating politics and religionand geneaology is wandering in > fairy tale land . becase one causes the other > My family is predominately coming from england until Mary Queen Of Scots and > the split of the churchs . At that time many went north to Scotland . Then > came Knox and that insanity. Being lowland catholics was like being black in > Georgia in 1805. So when the Forbes left for longsford they took us to build > their castles. 1775 forbes left to America and Chelsea Ma . 180_? we followed > how do you tell that story with out religion and politics. I dont think you > can. > > thepoint is lets get it straight > > > > > > > Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinnin g- > carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mch ug > h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop ,M > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > Jim Denning > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN >

This is from someone I know who has done Ireland research. If you wish more information from her you can e-mail her directly: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net>. She gave me permission to post this and her e-mail address. Do me favor, e-mail her only for information not to discuss your views on Irish or US politics. We haven't yet started to call each other Nazi and Hilter but we have started to tell each to leave 'the country' , which is amusing since the list international. Genealogy is history so at times we will find our discussing things politcially 'hot,' I do think we needn't poke each other in the eye. There is no doubt that the list has people of both Irish Republican [nothing to do with Bush] and Unionist's opinions, I can tell you that we can discuss this for month, for several years and we are not going to solve it on an e-mail list. I doubt we could solve or agree on an even simplier issue of whether gays should be able to marry. There is no doubt the list has Amercian Republicans and Amercian Democrats but the list is about Cavan. Hi Mike, I can imagine the discussion in Cavan!!! The short version of it is its the Protestant AOH. Ie it is a sectarian organization whose purpose was to help protect its community and foster its views and religion and harrass the other side. It grew out of the 1790s troubles. During various parts of its history it was illegal so of course there are no records. By around 1850 you find it in the USA and Canada where it gave charity to new immigrants: blankets, places to live, and jobs. The Indians in Canada formed their own lodges as Canada protected them agains the nasty US, who tried its best to exterminate them. Records: the Orangemen are lot a like Presbyterians: very independent. Each lodge elects its own members. So the quality and views vary a lot. The grand lodge tends to be much more moderate and forward thinking than the local lodges. Each lodge held its own records. Some end up centralized. In Ulster that's in GOLI (Grand Orange Lodge) and in the USA it was the Balch Institute, that is now the PA Historical Society or something like that. I have the email of the man who deposited the records of defunct American lodges there. If the lodge is not defunct, then the records are held by the local lodge. The same email can assist in finding out the status. This website can help: http://www.orangenet.org/ The Orange Order is undergoing a renaissance in the USA among evangelical Christians. It seems much more able to recruit them then Noraid, which was trying a few years ago. As such it is less focused on Ulster. The US group are totally apolitical though a few members are not. It's largely another men's club like the Masons. Most Protestant men would have been members of the Orange Order in Ireland in the latter 1800s and so on. I am sure that some were not due to religious reasons (don't believe in secret societies, etc). Some would have been kicked out for marrying Catholics too. Hope this info helps! Linda ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk http://www.panix.com/~cassidy [Public key available.]

Well done Mike a good sumation AND hard historical info. AND you haven't insulted anyone , tho you may be treading on thin ice with the Hitler and Nazis commentn not to mention whether gays should marry, I've thought it several times during this thread (re Hitler) but haven't had the guts to come out with it, as it is I now triple lock the doors and windows and daren't show my face in public in case other lkist members are out there waiting for me;) Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Cassidy" <cassidy@panix.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > This is from someone I know who has done Ireland research. If you wish more > information from her you can e-mail her directly: "Linda Merle" > <merle@mail.fea.net>. > She gave me permission to post this and her e-mail address. > > Do me favor, e-mail her only for information not to discuss your views on > Irish or US politics. > > We haven't yet started to call each other Nazi and Hilter but we have > started to tell each to leave 'the country' , which is amusing since the > list international. > > Genealogy is history so at times we will find our discussing things > politcially 'hot,' I do think we needn't poke each other in the eye. > > There is no doubt that the list has people of both Irish Republican > [nothing to do with Bush] and Unionist's opinions, I can tell you that we > can discuss this for month, for several years and we are not going to solve > it on an e-mail list. I doubt we could solve or agree on an even simplier > issue of whether gays should be able to marry. > > There is no doubt the list has Amercian Republicans and Amercian Democrats > but the list is about Cavan. > > Hi Mike, > > I can imagine the discussion in Cavan!!! The > short version of it is its the Protestant AOH. > > Ie it is a sectarian organization whose purpose > was to help protect its community and foster its > views and religion and harrass the other side. > It grew out of the 1790s troubles. During various > parts of its history it was illegal so of course > there are no records. By around 1850 you find it > in the USA and Canada where it gave charity to > new immigrants: blankets, places to live, and jobs. > The Indians in Canada formed their own lodges > as Canada protected them agains the nasty US, > who tried its best to exterminate them. > > Records: the Orangemen are lot a like Presbyterians: very independent. Each > lodge elects its own members. So the quality and views vary a lot. The > grand lodge tends to be much more moderate and forward thinking than the > local lodges. Each lodge held its own records. Some end up centralized. In > Ulster that's in GOLI (Grand Orange Lodge) and in the USA it was the Balch > Institute, > that is now the PA Historical Society or something like that. I have the > email of the man who deposited the records of defunct American lodges > there. If the lodge is not defunct, then the records are held by the local > lodge. The same email can assist in finding out the status. > > This website can help: > http://www.orangenet.org/ > > The Orange Order is undergoing a renaissance in the USA among evangelical > Christians. It seems much more able to recruit them then Noraid, which was > trying a few years ago. As such it is less focused on Ulster. The US group > are totally apolitical though a few members are not. It's largely another > men's club like the Masons. > > Most Protestant men would have been members of the Orange Order in Ireland > in the latter 1800s and so on. I am sure that some were not due to > religious reasons (don't believe in secret societies, etc). Some would have > been kicked out for marrying Catholics too. > > Hope this info helps! > > Linda > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk > http://www.panix.com/~cassidy > [Public key available.] > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) >