Thanks for this post - I was wondering about this. I had presumed that C of E recorded as a religion would mean that the family were not originally Irish, but possibly Scots or English. Would CofI and CofE also include Protestants and Methodists? Rgds Charlotte On Saturday, February 28, 2004, at 03:23 AM, Michael Cassidy wrote: > At 8:55 PM -0500 2/25/04, Cush and Karen Anthony wrote: >> Re: ANGLO CELT "THE ESTABLISHED CHURCH >> >> " At an ordination by the Lord Bishop of Meath, in the Church of >> Ardbracan, for the Diocese of Meath, on Sunday, the 24th December, >> 1848, >> the following persons were admitted to the holy order of Priests:--" >> >> So ...is the "Established Church" the Church of Ireland? >> > Church of Ireland = Chuch of England = Episcopal Church in the US. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk > http://www.panix.com/~cassidy > [Public key available.] > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list > mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest > mode) >

Charlotte, The 'Established Church' is sometimes referred to in records as 'EC'. This is the Church of Ireland in Irish records and the Church of England in English records. They all refer to the same denomination that is known in the USA as the Episcopal Church or Anglican Church. In Ireland [in the 1700 and 1800's at least] the Church of Ireland a/k/a Established Church were referred to as Protestants. The other denominations were known by their individual names: Methodist; Quaker; Plymouth Brethren; Presbyterian; Seceder Presbyterian, etc. Nowadays, the term 'Protestant' is an umbrella term for all the above. The Established Church of Scotland is Presbyterian, not Anglican/Episcopal. Patricia

>Thanks for this post - I was wondering about this. I had presumed that >C of E recorded as a religion would mean that the family were not >originally Irish, but possibly Scots or English. > >Would CofI and CofE also include Protestants and Methodists? > Protestants are all non-Roman Catholic Christian denominations. Methodists grew out of the Church of England; this is a history written by a friend for me a few years ago when I discovered my Pattisons were Methodists: Methodism starts w/ two brothers .. John and Charles Wesley, both ordained clergymen of the Church of England [Episcopal Church]. While at Oxford, they formed a study group called the "Holy Club" for prayer, Bible reading, etc. Because they had a strict "method" of reading, prayer, study the other students mocked them as "Bible Moths" or "Methodists" .. the later name stuck. John was sent to Georgia as a missionary by the C of E. On the way over, the ship nearly sank in a storm. John was terrified .. but a group of persecuted German Moravians were calmly singing and praying ... they had the Faith that John lacked. After a few miserable years in America, John returned to England .. still doubting his Faith. He later said he had gone to America to convert the sinners only to realize he was just a sinner himself ... and a sinner w/out hope. In late May 1738, he went to the Moravian Meetinghouse on Aldersgate Street, London, to attend a service. There he heard the message .. preached from Luther's "Preface on the Book of Romans" ... St. Paul writes that all men are saved by Christ's blood, faith in Christ and Christ alone. At that point, John was "saved" .. "My heart was strangely warmed. I knew that Christ had died for me." That's now celebrated as the "birthday" of Methodism ... called Aldersgate Sunday ... the simple message was/and still is that Christ died for the sins of the world and that the sinner need only to accept and believe by Faith and by Faith lead a New Life. After 1738, John and Charles preached this message across England and Ireland. John travelled a couple of hundred thousand miles by horseback preaching for more than 50 years until his death in the 1790's. His message appealed to the poor, not to the upper classes. Eventually, the authorities of the Church of England closed the churches to the Wesley brothers. They were forced to preach in fields, under trees, in market places .. they were attacked by mobs, but they kept on preaching. Gradually Methodist Societies were set up across England and Ireland [but NOT Scotland] in the 1740's-50's-60's-70's. The Methodists were to go to the Church of England [or in Ireland to the Church of Ireland] for communion and morning service and then to the Methodist chapels for preaching in the evening. This lasted until the 1780's when the two groups .. Church of England and Methodist .. gradually separated into distinct churches ... sometime in the 1790's in Britain. Irish Methodists showed up in New York City and Maryland in the 1760's and from these spots, but Maryland especially, the message spread across the American colonies. In the 1770's, John Wesley sent Francis Asbury to America to supervise the Methodist societies. After the Revolution, Asbury and his followers celebrated the first communion service [w/out a Church of England minister] in Delaware and a few months later Christmas Eve 1783 at Baltimore, Md., they organized a new church .. Methodist Episcopal at Baltimore, w/ Asbury chosen as Bishop. This was about 5 years before the Church of England was re-established in America as the Protestant Episcopal Church. By that time, the Episcopal and Methodist Episcopal were on two different roads. Today's United Methodist Church borrows much of the communion litergy from the Church of England ... Book of Common Prayer ... and there is a similar form, but the emphasis is very different. Episcopal is more formal and since the Oxford Movement of the 1840's has moved towards pre-Vatican II Catholic forms [I think the modern Catholic Church is often "less Catholic" than "High Church" Episcopalian churches]. Methodism is quieter now than it was in the 19th century .. the services are more organized .. the wild emotionalism of the early Methodist meetings .. sinners were saved w/ lots of enthusiasm .. is more found today in the black Methodist churches or in the various Pentacostal groups that spun off from Methodism in the early 1900's [Assembies of God,etc. have their roots in Wesleyan salvation preaching.] Unfortunately, we are a distant #2 today among U. S. Protestant Churches .. only about 1/2 of membership of the Southern Baptists, but up to WWII the Methodists were the largest Protestant church in the US. Methodism is a heavy "social action" church .. whether fighting slavery in Wesley time, booze in the 19th century, or what have you today ... sometimes the bishops fall off the left end of every social issue that comes down the pike ... Some of Hillary Clinton's views are central to "social action" Methodism .. she's very much a product of that wing of our church. Others are conservative [neo-Baptists !] Most of us try to stay in the middle and it can be hard. When I was last to a Catholic church .. in May .. the little paper hymnal/mass booklet had a number of Charles Wesley's hymns in it. You might be singing a few old-line Methodist hymns w/out knowing it! At least Vatican II has broken some of those divisions down. M. E. merged w/ other Methodists in 1939 and again in 1968 to form the United Methodist Church .. talks now going on w/ the black A. M. E. and A. M. E. Zion for unification ... I like the added zap we get when we worship w/ one of the local black U. M. churches in our area .. can't beat their music! David