Hello Kay and everyone: Yes, that is my understanding. To inherit or purchase land, there was that problem of religion. The registration of Catholic marriages was spotty for the same reason. The Catholic Parishes have been the best resource for my Catholic ancestry search in Ireland. The protestant (Church of Ireland) bunch were recorded in official records, much easier to trace. Kathleen ---- [email protected] wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. James MAGUIRE County Cavin - Help Needed! (Kim Pasquill) > 2. Re: James MAGUIRE County Cavin - Help Needed! ([email protected]) > 3. Re: James MAGUIRE County Cavin - Help Needed! (Kim Pasquill) > 4. Re: IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 (Kathleen) > 5. Re: IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 (jim at syracuse) > 6. Re: IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 (Kay Stanton) > 7. Cavan Weekly News - January 26, 1877 (Kay Stanton) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:02:58 -0700 > From: "Kim Pasquill" <[email protected]> > Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] James MAGUIRE County Cavin - Help Needed! > To: "IRL-CAVAN" <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Everyone, > > I'm new to the list and was hoping for some guidance as I have not done any > research so far in Ireland. All the research I have done is in Australia, > Scotland and England. > > My ancestors from County Cavan where: > > James Maguire born sometime btw 1817-1821 in County Cavan to Terence Maguire > (Farmer) who was deceased by 1871 and Nancy Maguire ms Docherty also > deceased by 1871. This information is from his death certificate. He > married. > > Catherine Bannan in Oct 1846 somewhere in County Cavan (this information is > from there children's birth certificates from Scotland), she is the daughter > of Bernard Bannan and Catherine Roster? she was born sometime btw 1826-1835. > > It is my assumption that the eldest 3 of their children where also born in > Ireland, but where I do not know. > Bernard > Peter born abt 1848 > Terrance born abt 1853 > The remaining 4 where all born in Glasgow, Scotland > Catherine born 20/12/1860 died 16/1/1876 in Glasgow > James born 15/7/1860 > Mary born 245/1/1863 married James Mc Quade and died 20/12/1898 in Glasgow > John born 17th Aug 1865. > (I am descended from Mary Maguire) > What I need to know is how I go about finding out where in County Cavan > James and Catherine married. I believe they where Catholic. > > If anyone recognises any of the above names I would dearly like to hear from > you. > > Any help will be most gratefully received. > > Best Wishes > Kim Pasuill > Victoria - Australia > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:47:05 EDT > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] James MAGUIRE County Cavin - Help Needed! > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > The Griffith's index on failteromhat.com shows many Maguires in Cavan, of > course, no Rosters, no Dochertys but a few Dohertys and Bannans. You might look > for parishes with all three names and search those parish records. > > Diane </HTML> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:18:25 -0700 > From: "Kim Pasquill" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] James MAGUIRE County Cavin - Help Needed! > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Diane, > > Thank you so much for pointing me in the direction of the below site. It's > really wonderful. I've taken your suggestion. I thought I might be better > off looking for the parents of James & Catherine Maguire nee Bannan, as I'm > not exactly sure when the emigrated to Scotland. > > It looks promising, as I only found 1 Bernard Bannon and 2 Terence Maguires > in county Cavan. So I will give those 2 a shot. > > I really appreciate the trouble you have taken to give me a guiding hand. > > Many Thanks and Happy Researching > Kim Pasquill > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 4:47 AM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] James MAGUIRE County Cavin - Help Needed! > > > > The Griffith's index on failteromhat.com shows many Maguires in Cavan, of > > course, no Rosters, no Dochertys but a few Dohertys and Bannans. You might > > look > > for parishes with all three names and search those parish records. > > > > Diane </HTML> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007 > > 11:56 AM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:10:49 -0700 > From: Kathleen <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hello. > Your narrative made me feel as if I was following your relatives, so nice to read about them. > > I remember reading somewhere in my genealogy work that Catholic marriages were discouraged at one point in Ireland if not illegal. Perhaps the reason your ancestors had such an odd history to their marriage was for this reason. I apologize for not remembering exactly but I've been through so much researching my own family some of it is a blur now. The eldest son of a family was said to have registered as Protestant in order to inherit land as well when they were actually Catholic. > > Again, my apologies for not being able to give you a reference. > Kathleen\ > > > > ---- [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. McCarroll - Gaffigan marriage (jim at syracuse) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:13:08 -0600 > > From: "jim at syracuse" <[email protected]> > > Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] McCarroll - Gaffigan marriage > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > McCARROLL ? GAFFIGAN Marriage. > > > > AGNES BRIDGET GAFFIGAN was born and lived in San Francisco before she came to Ireland to marry my grandfather MICHAEL JOSEPH McCARROLL (sometimes aka Carroll) of the Donacavey and Clogher Parishes, County Tyrone. They had met in San Francisco after Michael joined his two brothers. > > > > Agnes B. left for Ireland when she reached majority, but we do not know if she accompanied Mickey McCarroll on that journey. Instead of being married in the Fintona area, where his family lived and he chose to settle as a publican/merchant (after residing in Omagh at least until 1914), they were wed at St. Patrick?s Cathedral in Dundalk, County Louth. We don't even know if they traveled together, or where in Ireland they had landed, or even where they stayed before they left for County Tyrone to raise their family. > > > > We have no idea if marriage banns were published, but at that time there must have been. > > > > I was wondering about if it would be possible to see if some kind of note was placed in St. Patrick's Cathedral's records about their marriage which that took place 25 June 1912. (I do have the marriage record, but nothing else.) > > > > Mickey became a publican/auctioneer/seller of shoes and coffins at their public house on Main Street in Fintona (the pub owned by the late Mr. Francis McAtee). > > > > Michael and Agnes had a number of children, including my father: MICHAEL JOSEPH, b. 25 March 1914 in Omagh; PATRICK EUGENE, b. 1915, who passed away after three days; MARY CATHERINE (who became Maura when she migrated to the USA), 1917 and passed away in 2004; THOMAS LEO, b. 1918; BERNADETTE ANTHONY, b. 1919; and, KEVIN BARRY, b. 1921. All of these siblings had returned to the States in 1924 with their mother, after the passing of Michael Joseph McCarroll. > > > > Michael Joseph Carroll Sr. had left for California in 1887, aboard the Etruria, to join his brothers in San Francisco: THOMAS and PATRICK, who had become USA citizens. In 1904 Mickey also gained US citizenship. After sometime in the Bay Area he returned to Fintona and began a family in 1912. There is some speculation that he was ill in California and returned to Ireland because of that reason, but he had recovered from whatever the illness may have been. > > > > You know, this has been a mystery to me (and perhaps a mystery to others in my family) but it does seem quite funny. The two of them went to Dundalk to get married, before the partition so that was not the reason. Dundalk would seem to be half way point to Dublin, but then why would they land, or at least, she would land there from the States? It would seem more likely that they would come ashore at Moville. In those days marriage was fairly strictly regulated for the Catholics and while both were of the age; why not Armagh and its cathedral if they did not want to get married in Fintona? > > > > I just thought that there might, and I emphasize the "might," be something in those Cathedral records regarding the marriage of the "Yank" and his lady. Or, someone may have knowledge that would fill in the voids. As they say, "Nothing ventured, Nothing gained." > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > To contact the IRL-CAVAN list administrator, send an email to > > [email protected] > > > > To post a message to the IRL-CAVAN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > email with no additional text. > > > > > > End of IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 > > **************************************** > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:30:44 -0600 > From: "jim at syracuse" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Thank you for your post. Oh there is much more, and this was only a little > snippet. But, having said that, the Catholic marriages did not begin to be > recorded until the 1860s, but there are parish records that predate that > time. Much of the bitterness that comes from those times, and that in > particular of Ulster, was a result of the problems of the Catholic and > Protestant faiths. But, by 1912 (and earlier for other records) the > Catholic Church was a recognized institution throughout the island. > > Cavan, fortunately, was not part of the partition but those of us from the > six counties, including Tyrone, were. That leaves somewhat of a bitter > taste in the mouths of the Hibernians. But, what about those that have > different roots such as the Scots and Presbyterians? Some day, perhaps, > the arguments will settle down and all of society will be better for it. > > Jim > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Kathleen <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Cc: <[email protected]> > > Date: 4/23/2007 12:10:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 > > > > Hello. > Your narrative made me feel as if I was following your relatives, so nice > to read about them. > > I remember reading somewhere in my genealogy work that Catholic marriages > were discouraged at one point in Ireland if not illegal. Perhaps the > reason your ancestors had such an odd history to their marriage was for > this reason. I apologize for not remembering exactly but I've been through > so much researching my own family some of it is a blur now. The eldest son > of a family was said to have registered as Protestant in order to inherit > land as well when they were actually Catholic. > > Again, my apologies for not being able to give you a reference. > Kathleen\ > > > > ---- [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. McCarroll - Gaffigan marriage (jim at syracuse) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:29:46 -0400 > From: "Kay Stanton" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 84 > To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > > The eldest son > > of a family was said to have registered as Protestant in order to inherit > > land as well when they were actually Catholic. WASN'T THIS SO THE ELDEST > > SON COULD "PURCHASE" LAND??? I REMEMBER A SPEAKER ONCE SAYING, "IF YOU > > CAN'T FIND THE ELDEST SON, LOOK IN THE PRESBYTERIAN RECORDS." > > CONFIRMATION? > > KAY STANTON > DAYTONA BEACH, FL > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:42:20 -0400 > From: "Kay Stanton" <[email protected]> > Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Cavan Weekly News - January 26, 1877 > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > CAVAN WEEKLY NEWS, Friday, January 26, 1877 > > > > NEW CEMETERY. > > During the past month labourers were employed, under the direction of Mr. G. BROWN, head gardener, Baillieborough Castle, planting and decorating the grounds of the Lisgar cemetery at Baillieborough. A splendid selection of yews and other fancy shrubs encircle the grave of the late Lord Lisgar. In a few years the new cemetery will form a very attractive feature in the landscape near town. > > > > CAVAN PETTY SESSIONS. - Monday. > > (Before Messrs. BABINGTON, DILLON, and MOORE.) > > Hugh FOY and Patt CAVANAGH, were fined ?2 each or two months' imprisonment, for absenting themselves from the training of the Cavan Militia. > > Thomas CARROLL alias Andrew OWENS, was charged with like from the Louth Militia. > > Adjourned. > > Jane SEXTON was charged with assaulting her step-son. > > Fined 10s. > > Sarah CRUMLEY, James M'CABE, Thos. CALLAGHAN, and Francis CASEY were fined for drunkenness. > > Mr. DEVERELL, County Surveyor, summoned Jas. CONATY for neglecting to keep his contract road in repair. > > Ordered to have it in order before 5th of February. > > Patt DONOHOE was fined 6d. and costs for permitting his goat to wander on the public road. > > > > BAILIEBOROUGH UNION. > > The usual weekly meeting of the Guardians of this Union was held on Monday last in the boardroom of the Workhouse- > > B. S. ADAMS, Esq., J.P., in the Chair. > > Others present - M. PRATT, Esq., J.P.; H. K. SIMPSON, Esq., J.P.; J. SMALL, Esq., J.P.; T. CHAMBERS, Esq., and Messrs. J. RYDER, C. KEELAN, J. FINLEY, C. SMYTH, J. BRENNAN, J. FLANIGAN, M. CLARKE, D. FALKONER, E. KIERNANS, P. FLYNN, J. M'BREEN, and J. MALCOMSON. > > In accordance with a former notice of motion, it was moved by Mr. Kiernans, and seconded by Mr. Keelan, that the salary of Dr. O'HAGAN, medical officer of Kingscourt, be increased ?10 per annum. > > Mr. Pratt moved as an amendment that Dr. O'Hagan's salary remain without increase. > > A poll was then taken, when there appeared for the increase, 6 against it, 10. > > Among the sanitary reports read was one from > Dr. BOURKE, sanitary officer, Shercock, calling attention to a defective sewer at the rere (sic) of the Constabulary barracks, town of Shercock. > > Dr. Bourke recommended the sewer - which is an open one - to be cleaned out and properly piped. > > The consulting sanitary officer was ordered to inspect the sewer and report thereon. > > Mr. SIMPSON drew the attention of the Board to the filthy state of the public roads in and about Bailieborough. Surface nuisances continued unabated, particularly on the road leading from "CULLEN's Corner" to the Model School gate. > > Sanitary Sub-Officer HIGGINS was ordered to report the matter in the usual way to the sanitary officer. > > > > HIGH SHERIFFS. > > Dublin, Friday. > > The Lord Lieutenant has appointed the following gentlemen High Sheriffs:- > > Antrim - Sir Francis Edward M'NAUGHTEN, Bart. > > Armach - Colonel Thomas SIMPSON. > > Carrickfergus - Robert ALEXANDER, Esq. > > Cavan - William HUMPHREYS. > > Donegal - Captain Baptist JOHNSTON > > Drogheda - Patrick MATHEWS, Esq. > > Down - David Alfred KER, Esq. > > Fermanagh - Robert Edgeworth JOHNSTONE, Esq. > > Londonderry - Robert Lyon MOORE, Esq. > > Longford - George Warner SLATOR, Esq. > > Louth - Arthur Pemberton LONSDALE, Esq. > > Monaghan - William Wood WRIGHT, Esq. > > Sligo - Captain Gregory WOOD. > > Tyrone - Ancketill MOUTRAY, Esq. > > > > CHARITABLE BEQUESTS - MASSES FOR THE DEAD. > > On Thursday, in the Rolls Court, Dublin, the question of the validity of a bequest for Masses for the repose of the souls of deceased persons named was argued and decided in the case of BERESFORD v. JERVIS and another. The testatrix in the case was Mrs. Helen STRONG, of Maryville, near Wexford. She died in March, 1874, being then the widow of the late Dr. Francis P. STRONG, and by her will, made so back as May, 1845, she directed that ?19 18s. 41d. being part of the interest of ?750 worth of National Bank Shares, shall be paid by the trustees for Masses for the repose of the soul of her "beloved parents, Sarah and Michael O'BRIEN;" for the repose of the soul of her uncle, William O'BRIEN; and for the repose of her own soul - the Masses to be offered on certain specified days of each year, and "always in the Roman Catholic Chapel at Wexford." The Court had now to determine, with other questions arising on the trusts of the will, whether the bequest for Masses as st! at! > ed above was valid as a charitable bequest. > > Mr. JELLETT, Q.C., Mr. JOHNSTON, Q.C., and Mr. J. P. LAW, instructed by Messrs. W. FRY and Son, were for the plaintiff, Emily Sara Beresford, who represents the original executors of the will. > > Mr. David FITZGERALD (instructed by Messrs. D and T. FITZGRALD, appeared for the defendant, Jervis; and Mr. DAMES (instructed by Mr. T. LYNCH) was for the Attorney-General. > > For the plaintiff it was argued that the case could not be distinguished from the Attorney-General v. DELANY, in which the Court of Exchequer held that a legacy for a certain number of Masses for the repose of the soul of the testator was not a charitable bequest so as to be exempt from payment of legacy duty. That being so, it was contended that the fact that the Masses in this case was to be said in the Catholic chapel of Wexford did not render the bequest a charitable one, other than in respect of the benefit which the testatrix hoped to derive for her own soul, and therefore there being no public or general advantage intended to be given by the legacy in perpetuity, it was void under the statutes. The other interests represented did not contend against the plaintiff's views, but the case of the Attorney-General v. Delany was closely examined for the purpose of seeing whether it could be distinguished in principle from the case before the Court. > > His Honor said it was manifest from the terms of the will that the testatrix meant to give a bequest in perpetuity to pay for the Masses as long as the world lasted; and the only distinction that could be drawn between the will in this case and the will in the attorney-General v. Delaney, was that here testatrix directed the Masses to be said in the Roman Catholic Church of Wexford. In his opinion there was no distinction, and to hold it to be a distinction would fritter away and destroy the decisions that had been arrived at in the Exchequer, leaving the distinction to stand on no intelligible ground. The testatrix, a benevolent, religious, and pious lady unquestionably, sought to do what the law would not allow her to do. The law was not directed against the celebration of Mass or anything of that kind, and the sole question for him was whether the object for which this perpetuity was created was a charity. If it was not then the gift was void. When a rule of ! la! > w was once established - and now-a-days it was difficult to get a rule of law established - it was his duty not to destroy it upon any nice distinction, but to support it in its entirety with broad and wide lines. While he held that there was no difference because in this case the Masses were to be said in Wexford chapel, he held himself perfectly clear, as the Barons of the Exchequer did, to determine the question whenever it was raised, whether, if the Masses were directed to be said in public, in the face of the congregation, the gift would be a charitable one. But that question was not raised here; and confining himself to the question before him, he held that the bequest in this case was void. > > > > SUPPOSED DROWNING OF A SOLDER. - On Friday night, at about a quarter to ten o'clock, a soldier named LAWSON, belong to the 91st Argyleshire Highlanders, at present stationed at Enniskillen, jumped over that part of the barracks wall behind the officers' quarters into Lough Erne. A search was instituted at once, but no signs of him were to be seen. Men of the regiment are making inquiries throughout the town and country to see if he might have escaped, which is not likely, as the water was six feet deep at the place where he jumped over. > > > > SAD GUN ACCIDENT AT RICHHILL. - It is my painful duty to report the untimely death of Master Bobby BEST, youngest son of James Best, Esq., Richhill, which occurred by a gun going off in his hands while passing over a fence on one of his father's farms. This said accident has cast a gloom over the village and surrounding neighbourhood. Much sympathy is manifested for the bereaved family by all classes in the community. This promising youth was a great favourite with his class-fellows at the Royal School, Armagh, and greatly esteemed by all who knew him. Belfast News-Letter. > > > > THE INNY BRIDGE. - A Longford correspondent writes:- During last week the above bridge was finally tested, and now it is open for traffic, and the construction has given general satisfaction. The following gentlemen appeared at the opening: - James PRICE, Esq., Decimus FITT, Esq., and Hamilton SMYTH, Esq., &c. In the face of unexpected difficulties the bridge has proved a perfect success, owing entirely to energy displayed by Mr. Fitt, F.R.G.S.J. The public will be glad to learn that the work so long delayed has at length been successfully carried out. > > > > (Cavan County Newspaper Transcription Project) > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the IRL-CAVAN list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the IRL-CAVAN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of IRL-CAVAN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 85 > ****************************************