Is that the infamous Bill Reilly from Fox News by any chance??? WOW! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Siaoh@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > Hey Bill, this country fought many a battle to give you the right to voice > your opinions...but if you don't like the way it's being run, or the fact that > we don't cow down to our "allies", whoever they may be, maybe you should go > live in another area of the world and help their government in your own way. I > don't recall who mentioned, on the CAVAN site, that this is supposed to be a > fact finding site.....not a political, nor a religious one where an individual > can voice their dissatisfactions. Let's play the game right and get back to > genealogy facts. > Bill Reilly - New York > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > >

The strong views and prejudices aired by some subscribers is enlightening, and provides a clue perhaps as to why the problems in Ireland have never been resolved. Let's get back to genealogy. Derek McCall

Sir: Its OK with Me! Bill Golden >From: <wedmore@onetel.net.uk> >Reply-To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com >To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Re: Orangemen >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:30:15 GMT > >The strong views and prejudices aired by some subscribers is >enlightening, and provides a clue perhaps as to why the >problems in Ireland have never been resolved. >Let's get back to genealogy. > >Derek McCall > > >==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list click on >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

Jane, I wouldn't belabor the point that you are trying to make, concerning your imput on the state of Ireland...but I would like to point out that if you read your history there were originally NINE counties of Ulster before the Brits made a monumental decision and decided that THREE of the counties were predominately CATHOLIC and would have been the MAJORITY had they left things alone. It's ironic that the most NORTHERN county of Ireland, Donegal, is considered part of the SOUTH...why? And as for your other statement about "terrorism" almost being a way of life in Ireland....just think if Washington's forces had been defeated on numerous occassions and kept up the fight for years anyhow to attain freedom and justice...what would his armies(?) have been called....although I don't believe "terrorists" was the phrase in those days it was more like traitors or seditionists or any other title that the British could make stick. Let's leave the history to historians and get back to our original goals.....GENEALOGY. Bill Reilly

Oops.....My last post was in answer to one previous from Jim Denning. Kathleen Pearson

I don't see where your post mentioned England or the English being the blame for the troubles- unless you meant your statement regarding St. Patrick being english......I'm quite sure that his legacy in history is being the patron saint of Ireland - as someone else suggested to you in previous post, check him out!! I really don't want to say more on this Cavan site but would be very interested in separate site discussion. Kathleen Pearson

Jane Pearson & Bill Wheeler J T Pearson Outdoor Training 12 Mountfort Street Outram New Zealand Tel. 643 486 1363 jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimberley Walters" <walterskk@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > Hi, > > > > For those who are truly interested in understanding the historical events > and the political, social, and religious atmosphere our ancestors survived > through, and an awareness of the Orange Order from the organization itself, > I would highly recommend a lengthy visit to the following website: > http://www.orangenet.org/ > This site is rich with details and emotion that many of our history books > lack. If anyone knows of a similiar site that could enlighten us on > perspectives from the Catholic side it would be helpful to us all to be > aware of it. Roddy Doyle has a novel , "The Times of Henry King " or some such (I never remember titles) about a young recruit to the IRA during the 1916 rising which is a good read. > > It is a sad reminder of Ireland's difficult and war-torn past that people > who love her still do battle with not just bullets and blades but emotion > and words as well. I pray that those of us that have descended from the > labor and sacrifice and strength and grit of these people will make them > proud by finding another way. Faith will always be with us, politics will > most likely be with us just as long, but learning from those who have gone > before is what enbles us to rise above and make the future better. We may > look back on the things that have been done and be saddened by them, but if > we try to interpret them through the eyes of the current generation I think > we will fail to understand what our grandfathers and our great-grandmothers > were truly like. To be tolerant of those who practice of their faith > differs from our own is only possible for us today because of the world (or > perhaps I should day nations) we are blessed to live in. We do not face > being burned alive before our families because we are Protestant, we do not > have to choose between our form of worship and our right to own property > because we are Catholic, and we do not live in a time when our very lives > risk being turned inside out because one King died and his opposite takes > his place. Ours is a different world and we owe it to our forefathers to > truly try to understand theirs. I think if we do we will find them amazing > people, all of them. Well said, wish I could put it so well. But we need to remember that our cushy lives are not the experience of everyone in the world today and that there is still so much hatred out there which festers away until it errupts in violence, Rwanda and Yugoslavia spring to mind. So we do have modern parallels which can maybe give us clues to the past and where things went wrong. I wonder how many of our ancestors felt the way we do about it but were too scared or too apathetic to speak out, of course the ones that did got short shrift.How I wonder would we react today if our world was full of violence and persecution of other people was the norm. How many of us would have the courage to try and do something about it or would we go our ways because did not affect us directly. Here is much of the problem I feel with modern Ireland, people have got used to living with it and so they cope with the daily violence. > > My great-grandfather, James Drury, emigrated with his parents and siblings > from Bailieborough, Cavan at the end of the 1800's. He was an Orangeman, as > were his brothers, and they marched every July 12th in the parade in > Melfort, Saskatchewan. I have old photos and newspaper clippings of them in > kilts and banners, one playing the drums and my g-grandfather playing his > fife. They were not violent, they were not angry, they were celebrating > what it meant to be proud to love their homeland, to be willing to stand up > for their faith (as all people of faith should), and to gather together in a > sense of oneness that only those displaced from their home can share. My > g-grandfather may not have wanted his daughter to marry a Catholic, but he > never taught his family hatred and he didn't desire bigotry. For his sake I > speak out, not to defend Protestantism or Orangemen, but to defend our > ancestors rights to feel powerfully about the events that had such an impact > on their lives. > And that is how it should be, rememberance but a party for all. It is unfortunate that some people in Ireland look upon these events as a chance to lord it over another community and to intimidate them with the reminder of who is the boss and who beat who in a battle hundreds of years ago. I feel that although the times are ancestors were in may have been different , their thoughts and feelings were not so different from our own, most of them wanted a quiet, healthy life and the chance to bring up their children in peace and prosperity. it's just a pity that so often the way to attain those ideals seems to have involved trampling the other guy into the mud! Sorry I'm so cynical, but why does the human race NEVER learn? I blame the politicians:-) jane > > > > > >

Hey Bill, this country fought many a battle to give you the right to voice your opinions...but if you don't like the way it's being run, or the fact that we don't cow down to our "allies", whoever they may be, maybe you should go live in another area of the world and help their government in your own way. I don't recall who mentioned, on the CAVAN site, that this is supposed to be a fact finding site.....not a political, nor a religious one where an individual can voice their dissatisfactions. Let's play the game right and get back to genealogy facts. Bill Reilly - New York

In a message dated 2/26/2004 11:09:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirish@webtv.net writes: > I have made a hobby of studying irish history - and after reading all > the posts that began with the ? regarding "orangeman", I am surprised > that no one mentioned what I consider the cause of all the troubles of > Ireland from begin- ing to end (now)......England!! They should have > given the whole island their freedom in 1922 instead of keeping the 6 > northern counties Now today they keep the troubles brewing with their > presence. There is too much to say to discuss this further on our > genealogy site - but I think a separate website just for history would > be great. BTW, both my parents came from Ireland (1900 &1912) so I > learned a lot from them. > Kathleen Pearson mr, Joseph P. Kennedy as ambashador to the court of king james should of had Roosevelt demand it for the lend lease planes, but he never was queen ester was he Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list Jim Denning

In a message dated 2/26/2004 11:09:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirish@webtv.net writes: > regarding "orangeman", I am surprised > that no one mentioned what I consider the cause of all the troubles of > Ireland from begin- ing to end (now)......England!! i believe i did <i wear black on st patricks day 1st reason i want to be there at the 2nd comming as both sides explainwhy they killed their brother in his name 2nd reason is st patrick is another englishman telling irish have they should live egad> Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list Jim Denning

I have made a hobby of studying irish history - and after reading all the posts that began with the ? regarding "orangeman", I am surprised that no one mentioned what I consider the cause of all the troubles of Ireland from begin- ing to end (now)......England!! They should have given the whole island their freedom in 1922 instead of keeping the 6 northern counties Now today they keep the troubles brewing with their presence. There is too much to say to discuss this further on our genealogy site - but I think a separate website just for history would be great. BTW, both my parents came from Ireland (1900 &1912) so I learned a lot from them. Kathleen Pearson

I didn't say that all protestants hate catholics, I didn't say that all protestants are orange men. There are Orangemen who are Masons, you only have to see the Masonic symbols many wear, but the Masons are of course a worldwide institution, and I probably phrased it badly. I don't know whether Masons as a whole hate Catholics, after all the Masons keep their own business quiet, my grandfather was a Mason but I have no idea of his religious views. There are unfortunately a huge number of bigots in every religion, personally I have no religion and no axe to grind but I DO remember the news reports of the 1970's ,80's and 90's when the IRA were leaving bombs in rubbish bins in shopping malls and at rememberance service parades the UVF were shooting Catholics whenever they could. I also remember the righteous indignation of the Orangemen when they were refused permission to march through Catholic areas in a manner likely to intimidate the locals. I have worked with Irish Army recruits, and believe me there is not much liking for Catholics amongst those good Protestant boys and I have no doubt the feeling is reciprocated on the other side. I also know that in the years of the "troubles" something over 2000 people both protestant and catholic were killed , others disappeared ,others were beaten up , tortured and maimed. All this with the tacit support of a number of American politicians who suddenly became shocked and horrifed by the actions of terrorism on Sept 11. My biases? I despise hypocrits and bigots regardless of their profession of faith. personally I'd lock Paisley in a room with McGuiness and Adams and all the rest of them and lock the survivors up for life. regards Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard McCutcheon" <anndick.mccutcheon@sympatico.ca> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > > So your Orange men are vehemently protestant (see the teachings of the so > > called Rev Ian Paisly) hate Catholics and are also Masons. I think > Orangeman > > as a term probably describes some one of some standing in the Protestant > > community but I'm a bit hazy on that point. > > Strikes me that you're very hazy on most points. > Not all Protestants are Orangemen (although some of those who are both may > well hate Catholics). > Not all Protestants hate Catholics. > Not all Protestants or Orangemen are/were Masons (not sure where that came > from but you clearly have your own set of biases). > But, more inportantly, not all Masons are Protestants, very few are/were > Orangemen, and virtually none of them hate Catholics. > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) >

Mr. Webber if I hurt or angered you, or the lady in question then I apologize to both of you.. Mr. Roland W. Golden, Jr. >From: "Dick Webber" <grappadw@bellsouth.net> >Reply-To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com >To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:01:06 -0500 > >Roland your over the edge! This site is not a place to promote your >personal >and political vendettas. > >Dick (the guy that tried to help you) Webber NC USA > >-----Original Message----- >From: Roland & Rosemary Golden [mailto:margold56@hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:56 PM >To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > >Anne, You write "If we are apportioning blame, I don't suppose that the >Americans tell anyone how to live their lives. Good heavens madam, where >have you been for the past several years? Americans not only tell people >how >to live their lives, they take over whole countries and try to run them >without the least respect for the socio-cultural values of the people who >live in the country. If it grows it gos! Not only do we take over >countries, >we insult our life long allies if they dare to disagree with us, we >repudiate treaties and in general we have become a big pain for the world >community! Otherwise I agree with you. >Sincerely yours, >Bill Golden, Green Harbor, Massachusetts > > >From: "pne.anne" <pne.anne@ntlworld.com> > >Reply-To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com > >To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:55:53 -0000 > > > >I do not think a genealogy message board is the place to discuss religion > >and politics. I do this hobby to take my mind off all the troubles in >the > >world and I don't want to be reminded of them on here. I am trying to >find > >out about my four lines of Irish ancestors which include three Catholic > >families and one Protestant family. > > > >If we are apportioning blame, I don't suppose the Americans tell anyone >how > >to live their lives!!! > > > >Anne > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <CARADOC28@aol.com> > >To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:19 PM > >Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/2004 1:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > > MLeeN8NOK@aol.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/04 5:24:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > margold56@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > What is foolish is a celebration where the celebrants have no idea > >of > >the > > > > > true > > > > > events which they are commemorating. > > > > > > > > I second that -- and have enjoyed this discussion. I, too, wondered > >what > > > > the > > > > term "orangemen" meant, but never thought to ask. Thanks, everyone. > > > > > > > > > > i wear black on st patricks day > > > 1st reason i want to be there at the 2nd comming as both sides > >explainwhy > > > they killed their brother in his name > > > 2nd reason is st patrick is another englishman telling irish have they > >should > > > live > > > egad > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinni >n > >g- > > > > >carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mc >h > >ug > > > > >h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintro >p > >,M > > > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > > > Jim Denning > > > > > > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > > > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list >mode) > >or > > > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest > >mode) > > > > > > > > >--- > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004 > > > > > >==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > >To unsubscribe from this list click on > >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) >or > >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. >http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx > > >==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== >For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN > > >==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list click on >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx

Three Cheers for Donna...................

It appears as if there were two J. Bradys priests in Kilmore Diocese in 1847. James was in Denn from 1841 - 1856. The other was John Brady who was in Killeshandra from 1845 - 1850 Donal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Whitchurch-Bennett" <WhitBennRM@uk2.net> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:27 AM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Where was J BRADY Parish Priest > My g-g-grandfather Andrew Allwell joined the Irish Constabulary in May 1847 > on the recommendation of the Rev. J Brady, his Parish Priest. > > Can anyone tell me which Cavan Parish the Rev J Brady was parish priest of > as I will then be able to track where my ancestor was from. At the moment > all I know is that he was born in County Caven. > > Richard > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > > > >

Thank you. Dan

ANGLO-CELT DECEMBER 29, 1848 CAVAN QUARTER SESSIONS These sessions commenced on Wednesday, before F. M. MURPHY, Esq., Q.C., Assistant Barrister, The civil business was unusually light; but the crown business, on the contrary, was very heavy, there being ninety-five cases, the majority of which were for felony. Civil Bill Entries, 710; Ejectment Entries, 53; Replevin Entries, 11; Legacy cases, 1; appeals to convictions, 3. Grand Jury--Thomas HARTLEY, Esq., Counte(illegible); foreman; William SMITH, Esq.; Drumheel; William Moore BLACK, Esq., Cavan; Henry HUMPHRYS, Esq., Cavan; Robert FITZGERLD, Esq., Cavan; Henry MAXWELL, Esq., Cavan; William FARIS, Esq., Cloggy; John A. FARIS, Esq., Faninecer; Thomas BLIGH, Esq., Cavan; John MOORE, Esq., Ballymackeruo; Francis M'CABE, Esq., Cavan; James REILLY, Esq., Lacken. The Cown Cases were then proceeded with. Daniel LYNCH was convicted for having unregistred arms--10s. fine, and surety for the peace, &c. for seven years. John DONOHOE, do., do. James TONER for larceny, 6 months' hard labour. Charles CLARKE and William CLARKE, larceny from Cavan work- house, a fortnight's imprisonment each and twice whipped. Patrick MURRAY larceny of a watch from Mr. John MURRAY of Cavan, seven years transportation. Anne MAGUIRE larceny from Cavan workhouse, one month's hard labour. Phillip SMITH and James CAFFREY against Catherine DOWD and others, for receiving stolen oats--Bill ignored. William GRAINGER and another against Catherine FLEMING for i nfanticide. Bill ignored. Richard LEVINGSTON and others against James MASTERSON and others, for burglarly and robbery. Bill ignored. Constable John SHEEHY against john ROBINSON for unlicenced arms. Bill ignored. John M'DONNELL and others against James TULLY, for larceny of potatoes. Bill ignored. Phillip OLWILL (sic) against John FITZPATRICK, for assault. Bill ignored. Michael MAGRATH and others against Margaret HAYES and others for larceny of fowl. Bill ignored. Mary FEEHILLY and Eleanor FEEHILLY larceny from the shop of Robert HAYES, Swanlinbar. Verdict--Guilty. Mary nine months' imprisonment, and Eleanor six months'. Robert PRATT of Toneymore appeared to prosecute John SHERIDAN and Mary and Anne KELLY for robbing him on the night of the 16th October of three £5 and four £1 notes. It appears that PRATT came into Cavan on that day to pay poor-rate and in the evening he got tipsy; when he fell into the company of the female prisoners, who are girls of loose character. Some witnesses were examined to prove PRATT was seen in the above company at a late hour, amongst others Mr. SMITH, Main- street, who stated he was rapped out of bed by PRATT seeking admission, when he (Mr. SMITH) saw by whom PRATT was accom- panied he very properly shut the door against the party. PRATT stated after that, and while struggling to escape from the girls who were holding him against his will, SHERIDAN came up and knocked him down; the girls then robbed him of the above sum and decamped. Mr. Arthur ELLIS deposed one of the female persons brought a 5l. note to his shop to have changed in a few days after this occurrence, and he saw in her hand another 5l. note, also a 1l. note. Mr. ELLIS would not give her the change. A fortnight after the robbery, PRATT lodged informa- tions and had the prisoners arrested, but none of the missing money was found. After a long and patient investigation, the sapient jury acquitted all the prisoners of the robbery, but found the one that had the notes GUILTY of RECEIVING STOLEN GOODS. Next day his Worship commented on the oddness of the verdict, and said it was tantamount to a full acquittal. The prisoners were accordingly discharged. TUESDAY, Dec. 28. The following petty jury was sworn:--Messrs. John DONEY, Thomas ACHESON, Richard HUMPHREYS, Hen. WILLIS, T. Wm. BENNETT, J. Wm. MATTHEWS, Thos. RAMSAY, Wm. PRATT, Chs. MALCOMSON, Francis CLARKE, Thomas FINNIGAN, and Edward FEGAN. Hugh M'CAFFREY, was indicted, for having a stolen mare in his possession.James LANE, subconstable, Kilnaleck, arrested the prisoner in KiInaleck, on the morning of the 31st of October last, with the mare in his possession. Eleven days it was restored to the owner Edward URRELL. On Mr. URRELL's being examined, he stated he lived near the Black Bull, county Meath; he had the prisoner in his employment for three or four weeks in harvest, but discharged him sometime before the robbery, which occurred on the night of the 30th of October. He had not seen the prisoner for a fortnight before the robbery. The prisoner, in defence, said it was all by the means of a bad landlord. He purchased the mare after his return from England, where he had been reaping the harvest. Verdict--Guilty. Transported for seven years. Thomas REILLY, for larceny of seven turkeys from Owen MAGOVERIN, of Clowney, on the night of the 10th of November. Thomas FITZPATRICK (an approver) stated the prisoner slept with him, and on that night he awoke him and both went off and stole the turkeys. Owen MAGOVERIN examined--He lost the turkeys, but could not tell who took them; witness gave the prisoner a good character, and the approver a bad one. The barrister told the jury that it was against the principle of law to convict on the approver's evidence, unless confirmed by other witnesses. Verdict--not guilty. MIchael CONNOLLY and Thomas MURRAY were charged with the robbing of five gallons of whiskey from Hugh CARBON, a little boy, on the night of the 11th of Dec., while returning from Belturbet. Mr. John ARMSTRONG appeared for the prisoner MURRAY. The boy, CARBON, deposed to the particulars of the robbery, and identified the two prisoners. Some constables were examined, but their evidence was not material. Mr. ARMSTRONG then addressed the jury for the defence and produced MURRAY's father and sister, who proved an alibi, also some witnessed as to character. The barrister in charging the jury, said it was altogether a question of identity. His Worship complimented Mr. ARMSTRONG on his able defence of the prisoner MURRAY. Verdict--not guilty. Jon CASSELLS appeared in the witness-box to swear against his uncle for stealing a cow from him on the fair night of Cootehill. Witness said he was a day late for swearing his informations, but he came now to "persecute him." Barrister--I'll take care you won't "persecute" him in this court. Witness--I'm a bad lawyer and it thriv(sic) ill with me this time. Barrister--So it seems. Did not you owe your uncle money, and he took the cow in lieu of it, as he was going to America, and you refused to pay him? Witness--He said so, but I don't owe him anything at all. Barrister--You are too late for this sessions. Thomas REILLY was next put forward, charged with stealing oats and sheets from Mrs. Jane KENNY, of Ballinagh, on the 21st December inst. Verdict--guilty of receiving the goods, knowing them to have been stolen. Mrs. KENNY gave the prisoner a good character up to this transaction. Sentence--three months' hard labour. John COLLINS pleaded guilty to stealing some ducks on the night of the 14th of December--two months' hard labour. Thomas REILLY(he that was prosecuted by the approver) was indicted for stealing a spade, the property of the Board of Works. Bernard FITZPATRICK purchased the spade from prisoner for 3s., and it was taken from him by a policeman soon after. Barrister--What is the prisoner's name? Witness--Thomas MICKEDDY, my lord. Barrister--What do you call him? Witness--MICKEDDY. Barrister--Is that his real name, or only a nickname? Witness--Ah, tell your name why don't you at once (laughter). Mr. B. ARMSTRONG--Do you tell it. Don't you know him? Witness--I do; but that's what he is called. Some more witnesses were examined, who failed to connect the prisoner with the robbery. Verdict--not guilty. The Barrister, in ordering the prisoner to be discharged said he had great luck that day in escaping twice; if he came before him again he would be transported. Anne CANE was found guilty of stealing a £1 note from Patatrick SMITH, at Derryerraghan, on the 7th of Nov. Six months' hard labour. BURGLARY Edward CUSACK, Michael CUSACK, and John SMITH were indicted for burglariously breaking into the house of Mary CUSACK on the 28th October at Grella, and taking therefore nine £1 notes. Mr. B. ARMSTRONG and Mr. Montray ERSKINE appeared for the crown, and Mr. James ARMSTRONG for the prisoners. Mary CUSACK sworn--She said the prisoners were her brothers-in-law. On the 28th of October she closed up her house and went to Cootehill to meet her landlord. The door was fastened inside by a child and the child then came through the window, which she closed up by previous to going to Cootehill. She returned about 8 o'clock in the evening, accompanied by a boy called Peter M'GLUNE. When she went foward towards the house, she saw SMITH outside and heard a noise inside. She then hid herself in the garden, and shortly after the two CUSACKs came out of the house, and then all three prisoners went away. She thought she was noticed before she hid; she was afraid to show herself. When I went in and examined the house, the money was taken and here is a notice left behind by Edward CUSACK. Witness produced some decrees. Cross-examined by Mr. James ARMSTRONG--You were married to John CUSACK brother to the prisoner here? I was--He died sometime in February I believe? I don't recollect; yes I think he did, about the 25th.-- Oh, poor John's death did not make much impression on you; you are a sporting widow? The witness muttered something indistinctly--Did you cry when you lost poor John? I did (here the witness shed some tears)--Oh! these are the first tears you shed for a long time. Did you like your husband better than M'GLUNE or M'GLUNE better than your husband? I like my husband better. The witness in continuation, said that when she went to Cootehill she left a servant girl behind to watch the cattle. She went to pay her rent, or inquire about it, but she left the rent behind. Cootehill is nine miles from her house. Witness went in M'GLUNE;s car. In answer to a question from Mr. James ARMSTRONG, witness admitted that the servant girl had asked her for money to pay for shoes, which money was not given, as witness said she had no change. The girl did not get the shoes; supposed it was for want of money. The prisoners are the holders of 30 acres of land and upwards, with a valuable mill. Mr. James ARMSTRONG--Hadn't M'GLURE, your favourite, a mill. Court--She did not. Mr. ARMSTRONG--I will show he was. Court--Until you do, you have no right to suppose. so. Mr. ARMSTRONG--Have not the prisoners, the CUSACKS, a mill. They have I suppose--Did not the erection of CUSACK's mill take away the custom from M'GLUNE's? I don't know; I never heard.--Oh, no! you never heard? Never--Where did you sleep the night of the robbery? Witness hesitated for a moment or two, and then answered in Mr. FITZPATRICK's.-- Did M'GLUNE sleep with you that night? No; not never--Do you swear, madam, there was no improper intimacy between you? I do swear it. The witness in answer to further questions, said on her return she did not tell the girl she left in charge of the cows of the robbery. The robbery took place on Saturday night, and the next morning she went up pretty early from where she slept (FITZPATRICK's) to her own place. M'GLUNE was with her (Mr. ARMSTRONG--Oh, certainly, M'GLUNE!) also the girl left to mind the cows. The desk where she left the money was broken open and the money gone. Two panes in a window where the fellows effected an entrance were also broken. Peter M'GLUNE (the young man before referred to) examined by Mr. ERSKINE--I went to Cootehill on the 28th October with Mrs. CUSACK; she paid my father 2s. 6d. for the car before we started. After going to Cootehill, and on returning to her house we heard a noise and we stopped, watching for some time. In a while Edward CUSACK and Michael CUSACK came out, and they and that little boy in the dock there that was outside, listening like, went away. We saw the house open, but I did not go in. She told me she was afraid to stop in that night, and that she would sleep at a neighbour's. Mr. ERSKINE--Did you sleep with her that night? Witness--I did not. Barrister--Mr. ERSKINE, you have no right to ask that question. It should be asked, if at all, by the defence. Mr. ERSKINE--I submit I have a right. The woman's character is shamefully impeached, and she instructs me to put this question in order that it may be cleared up. I want to prove no improper intimacy subsisted between these parties. His Worship made some remark, after which Mr. ERSKINE continued his examination of the witness. Cross-examined by Mr. James ARMSTRONG--She treated me and the horse very well--indeed, so well, I can't complain (laughter). I sat in the car with her sometimes, but did not put my arm round her. We set out in the morning to Cootehill and did not return until eight o'clock or so at night. I did not see the notice until next morning; then I saw the desk open, and was told of the money having been taken. She slept that night at Fitzpatrick's; I saw her a piece of the way home. I am perfectly sure I did not sleep with her that night. She did not tell me she went to Cootehill to avoid service of the notice. Mr. DOWNEY (a juror) said Mrs. CUSACK swore she went to Cootehill to avoid the notice. Mr. ARMSTRONG--Oh, no; that is one of the points of my defence. The Court--She did not; but she stated she went to meet the landlord. MR. DOWNEY--She said that too; but she also said she went to avoid service of notice........ Mr. ARMSTRONG called Catherine SMITH (a young girl) for the defence--I remember the day Mrs. Cusack says she was robbed; it was on a Saturday; she went in the morning for Peter M'GLUNE; when going away she sent me to a neighbour's, and told me to have an eye about the cows and the house; no one came about the house until between one and two o'clock in the day; at that time Edward Cusack and John Smith came and asked me where was Mrs. Cusack; they then go up on a car in the yard, and went into the house through an open place like a gable window, that they had for sifting oats at; there was no glass in the window; they remained in a minute, and called on me to witness the service of the notice, which I did; when Mrs. Cusack returned I did not tell her what I had seen; she told me she was going to sleep in Robin M'GLUNE's that night; Robin M'GLUNE is Peter's father; she told me next day she had slept there; I was in Mrs. Cusack's service; a little before I asked her for four shillings to pay for a pair of shoes, she told me she hadn't them, until she would make them in the fair of Ballyduff; I didn't get the shoes for want of the money; Philip FITZ- PATRICK also asked her for five shillings, the price of a calf he had sold her, and she gave him the same answer. Mr. ARMSTRONG--Was there an illicit intercourse carried on between your mistress and Peter M'GLUNE, to your knowledge? Witness--There was. Mr. ARMSTRONG--Did you see them often? Witness--I did often, by day and by night. Mr. ARMSTRONG--Was it in the kitchen or the room? Witness-- In various places. Mr. ARMSTRONG--Did you see them in bed together? Witness--I did (Loud laughter, in which Mrs. CUSACK, who sat on the second seat, joined heartily). Mr. ARMSTRONG--Did you see them more than once? Witness--I did. Cross-examined by Mr. Ben. ARMSTRONG ,I told the neighbours that they were in the habit of sleeping together. I told them before this law business.... Rose GRAY (an old woman) produced to prove an alibi for the prisoners. She said her daughter was servant with them. On the day talked of she (witness) was at the prisoners house; at one o'clock the prisoners went to serve a notice on Mrs. CUSACK; they returned soon after and remained within the rest of the day. In the evening they had a churning.....His Worship then charged the jury, summing up the evidence with clearness and precision. He said the case was a conspiracy on one side or the other, and involved wilful and deliberate perjury. In commenting on the girl, Catherine SMITH's evidence, it appeared to be, he said, an unblushing falsehood from beginning to end; nothing was more improbable than that the accused parties would allow a servant girl to be a witness to their criminal intercourse, in open day, if such were carried on. The jury then retired, and in the course of an hour or so returned into court with a verdict of acquittal. Thus terminated the crown business for the day. The civil business was then gone into which was generally uninteresting. One case, however, we had better lay before the public in a speciment of lenity to tenants. GERALD DEASE, ESQ., V. PETER REILLY. Mr. TULLY appeared for the plaintiff, and Mr. ERSKINE for the defendant. This was an action brought by the landlord for recovery of three half- years' rent due on the 24th of September last. It appears Peter REILLY holds a farm under Mr. DEASE at the yearly rent of 44l., 15s. 6d. In 1846-47 Mr. DEASE made an abatement to his tenants, which REILLY amongst others claimed but it appears was not allowed. On the expiry of the third half-year on the 24th September. Mr. DEASE instructed Mr. TULLY to take proceedings for the recovery of the rent. Mr. TULLY did so, and then the case before the court... Mr. Philip REILLY said the action was out of his sanction. Mr. ERSKINE showed the custom of this country to have what is called a dormant half-year--id est that a complete half year should have elapsed before the preceding half year's rent could be demanded, and hoped his Worship would not annul or abridge the poor man's privilege in this important matter. Mr. ERSKINE defended his client with marked zeal and ability. The Barrister considered Mr. ERSKINE's argument was just, and dismissed the case. The remaining business was unimportant ___________________________________________________________ County Cavan Newspaper Transcription Project

Roland your over the edge! This site is not a place to promote your personal and political vendettas. Dick (the guy that tried to help you) Webber NC USA -----Original Message----- From: Roland & Rosemary Golden [mailto:margold56@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:56 PM To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen Anne, You write "If we are apportioning blame, I don't suppose that the Americans tell anyone how to live their lives. Good heavens madam, where have you been for the past several years? Americans not only tell people how to live their lives, they take over whole countries and try to run them without the least respect for the socio-cultural values of the people who live in the country. If it grows it gos! Not only do we take over countries, we insult our life long allies if they dare to disagree with us, we repudiate treaties and in general we have become a big pain for the world community! Otherwise I agree with you. Sincerely yours, Bill Golden, Green Harbor, Massachusetts >From: "pne.anne" <pne.anne@ntlworld.com> >Reply-To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com >To: IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:55:53 -0000 > >I do not think a genealogy message board is the place to discuss religion >and politics. I do this hobby to take my mind off all the troubles in the >world and I don't want to be reminded of them on here. I am trying to find >out about my four lines of Irish ancestors which include three Catholic >families and one Protestant family. > >If we are apportioning blame, I don't suppose the Americans tell anyone how >to live their lives!!! > >Anne >----- Original Message ----- >From: <CARADOC28@aol.com> >To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:19 PM >Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > > > > In a message dated 2/26/2004 1:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > MLeeN8NOK@aol.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/04 5:24:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > margold56@hotmail.com writes: > > > > What is foolish is a celebration where the celebrants have no idea >of >the > > > > true > > > > events which they are commemorating. > > > > > > I second that -- and have enjoyed this discussion. I, too, wondered >what > > > the > > > term "orangemen" meant, but never thought to ask. Thanks, everyone. > > > > > > > i wear black on st patricks day > > 1st reason i want to be there at the 2nd comming as both sides >explainwhy > > they killed their brother in his name > > 2nd reason is st patrick is another englishman telling irish have they >should > > live > > egad > > > > > > > > >Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinni n >g- > > >carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mc h >ug > > >h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintro p >,M > > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > > Jim Denning > > > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) >or > > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest >mode) > > > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004 > > >==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list click on >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or >mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN

I do not think a genealogy message board is the place to discuss religion and politics. I do this hobby to take my mind off all the troubles in the world and I don't want to be reminded of them on here. I am trying to find out about my four lines of Irish ancestors which include three Catholic families and one Protestant family. If we are apportioning blame, I don't suppose the Americans tell anyone how to live their lives!!! Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: <CARADOC28@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > In a message dated 2/26/2004 1:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, > MLeeN8NOK@aol.com writes: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/04 5:24:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > margold56@hotmail.com writes: > > > What is foolish is a celebration where the celebrants have no idea of the > > > true > > > events which they are commemorating. > > > > I second that -- and have enjoyed this discussion. I, too, wondered what > > the > > term "orangemen" meant, but never thought to ask. Thanks, everyone. > > > > i wear black on st patricks day > 1st reason i want to be there at the 2nd comming as both sides explainwhy > they killed their brother in his name > 2nd reason is st patrick is another englishman telling irish have they should > live > egad > > > > Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinnin g- > carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mch ug > h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop ,M > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > Jim Denning > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004

English? His parents were Roman he may have been born in Britain that doesn't make him British. Like being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse jo GEOGHEGAN REUNION JUNE 2005 IRELAND -------------------------------- Visit my newsletter website at: www.btinternet.com/~finty/ ---------------------------------