No, not Bill O'Reilly from TV, just Bill Reilly local New York citizen.
Good question, unfortunately it will likely take your own research to answer the question, if ever. I suspect that a lot of spelling changes are because some of our ancestors were illiterate. If you can't spell, what spelling does your child use when they learn how to spell? What spelling does your preacher, your census taker, etc. use? In Ireland every literate person knew how to spell Reilly, in the US, Canada, NZ and Australia it was probably an entirely different story. Best wishes, Dennis Reiley, er Reilly-O'Reilly-Reilley-Riley-Rhley-Rahley (there's probably a couple more) "E.Sharp" <bellemarco@hotmail.com> wrote: On some family records and documents our ancestors last name is O'Reilly. On others it is Riley. Is their original surname O'Reilly shortened to Riley? Also, if an ancestors served with Wellington and received a pension and moved to Canada, would he still have received that pension in Canada (so far, I have not ascertained he qualified/received a pension - still researching). Thank you. "E"laine ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN
In a message dated 2/26/2004 11:02:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz writes: As we seem to be split into those who are proud to be American and those nasty people who either are not or those of us who merely live in the rest of the world. You should be proud of whatever you are. I never said anyone else was nasty. I, personally, am glad I am American. I love my country and I will say it everytime someone puts it down. For all it's faults and sometimes disastrous foreign policies it's still my home. My ancestors have shed their blood for this country all the way from the Revolutionary War through the War of 1812 through the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korean War (my father is a Korean War Veteran) and Vietnam. My Irish ancestors came here to NYC make a better life for themselves and their family. They worked on the docks and construction to help build this country--I can't turn my back on all they sacrificed and went through to try to make a better country. Donna T B
Surely geneaology is more than just BD and M. It is the life and times of our ancestors and their social history. I confess to having got a bit "modern" in some of my comments but what's happening today is a product of history and worthy of study and comment, this is a discussion group after all. Co Cavan is in Ulster, home of the troubles, I don't think we can isolate ourselves from that, you only have to read the excellent Newspaper transcriptions to have the woes of the world as it was then brought home to you. regards Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: <CARADOC28@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > In a message dated 2/26/2004 2:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, > pne.anne@ntlworld.com writes: > > > > > > > > I do not think a genealogy message board is the place to discuss religion > > and politics. I do this hobby to take my mind off all the troubles in the > > world and I don't want to be reminded of them on here. I am trying to find > > out about my four lines of Irish ancestors which include three Catholic > > families and one Protestant family. > > > > yeah i agree but Not all Irish are all Protestant or all catholic mine are > mixed > and the reason they came to america as exciles is that in 1798 rebellion > whats not known is it was a protestant catholic rebellion. > In Ireland separating politics and religionand geneaology is wandering in > fairy tale land . becase one causes the other > My family is predominately coming from england until Mary Queen Of Scots and > the split of the churchs . At that time many went north to Scotland . Then > came Knox and that insanity. Being lowland catholics was like being black in > Georgia in 1805. So when the Forbes left for longsford they took us to build > their castles. 1775 forbes left to America and Chelsea Ma . 180_? we followed > how do you tell that story with out religion and politics. I dont think you > can. > > thepoint is lets get it straight > > > > > > > Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinnin g- > carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mch ug > h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop ,M > a.-sprague- and ever growing list > Jim Denning > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN >
And oh dear, heaven help you if any Scottish person catches you saying he was English if he was born in SCOTLAND, so he was a Roman Scot (British would be acceptable) who went to tel the Irish how to run their lives :) Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: <MeadowlandsNJ@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] St Patrick > In a message dated 2/26/2004 2:44:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > seosimhin@btopenworld.com writes: > English? > His parents were Roman > he may have been born in Britain that doesn't make him British. > Like being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > http://www.saintpatrickcentre.com/ > and > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11554a.htm > Apostle of Ireland, born at Kilpatrick, near Dumbarton, in Scotland, in the > year 387; died at Saul, Downpatrick, Ireland, 17 March, 493. > He had for his parents Calphurnius and Conchessa. The former belonged to a > Roman family of high rank and held the office of decurio in Gaul or Britain. > Conchessa was a near relative of the great patron of Gaul, St. Martin of Tours. > Kilpatrick still retains many memorials of Saint Patrick, and frequent > pilgrimages continued far into the Middle Ages to perpetuate there the fame of his > sanctity and miracles. > > > B > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN >
Hi Karen Complicated family :) Isn't Cldebank part of Glasgow? That area got a lot of Irish labourers I believe (and also the unfortunate sectarian troubles , Celtic /Rangers etc). The catholic Irish seem to have got quite a bit of stick in many of their new countries, USA during famine, NZ and Aus, but I guess theywe re just the poorest immigrant section of the population at the time. My family were Protestant as far as I know but I was surprised to find a web site giving christening of what appear to be my ggm sisters as RC. Once they hit NZ my family seem to have used any priest that was handy, maybe this was what they did before they got to NZ as well. My GGF George LOVETT was a fencible soldier and one of the men who built Howick Church, (Anglican), one of the oldest churches in NZ. Later burials in the family seem to have been by a variety of ministers. I found a couple of LOVETTs on the later Ulster Roll petiton, but they are so much later than my family that I have no way to link them. The BIGGS family may have been RC, there were several families of this name in Cork who appear to have been RC but again I have no established link. Civil reg makes it SO much easier to research them, no need to worry about what they believed in in order to find their records. Just to throw in a new one, lots of Irish are descended from Scots border troublemakers transplanted to Ulster at various times, plus Cromwells English settlers. And don't forget the Norse took over much of Ireland as well, and the Celts were a germanic race, so now we're back to the De Danaan and the FirBolg. Will the REAL inhabitantsof Ireland please stand up? good luck in your search. Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: <Clannessie@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:22 AM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen and St. Patrick > Jane it was I that started all this and with some posts kinda of cringed for > starting it but then with others I have learned so much and like Tamy in > Nevada said she had always wondered and never thought to ask, am glad I did ask! > Then it went to St. Patrick......and again I have learned about him including > being born in Kilpatrick near Dunbarton where I have Scottish family....my > Mom was born in Clydebank and her Mom born in Milngavie and her Mom born in New > Kilpatrick, Dumbarton! > I also agree that family information I can gather, whether it's where they > were born and died or religion or anything, it all helps to round out my family > history. In my family just going back to Great Grandparents I have Church of > Ireland (The Orangemen that started all this) on my Grandfather's side (he > ended up being prominent in the Kilbowie Church in Clydebank - Church of > Scotland). On my Grandmother's side her Father was Catholic and not sure what her Mom > was. They were brought up Catholic but somehow changed to Salvation Army Church > when they went to Simonstown, South Africa where he worked on the dry dock. > Something major must have happened and the Mom brought all 8 kids back to > Scotland. My Grandparents and their children attended the Kilbowie Church > (amazingly not leveled in the Blitz but my Moms home around the corner was). For some > reason my Grandmothers siblings and then my Moms siblings were raised on a > dislike of Catholics (we still have not figured out that puzzle piece). My Mom > came to Michigan after the war where 6 of the 8 Aunts/Uncles on her Mom's side > had settled and half became Baptists the other half were Catholics. My oldest > son is our first child to be married and Melissa is Catholic and I have no > problems what so ever on the matter! I just kinda look at it in a way it has gone > full circle..but that's just my thought :) > > Anyway.....Thanks to Jane and all the others that have added their two-cents > to my question....it has even opened a whole new "folder" in my genealogy box! > > Karen, > Glendora, CA > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > >
At 8:55 PM -0500 2/25/04, Cush and Karen Anthony wrote: >Re: ANGLO CELT "THE ESTABLISHED CHURCH > >" At an ordination by the Lord Bishop of Meath, in the Church of >Ardbracan, for the Diocese of Meath, on Sunday, the 24th December, 1848, >the following persons were admitted to the holy order of Priests:--" > >So ...is the "Established Church" the Church of Ireland? > Church of Ireland = Chuch of England = Episcopal Church in the US. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk http://www.panix.com/~cassidy [Public key available.]
This is from someone I know who has done Ireland research. If you wish more information from her you can e-mail her directly: "Linda Merle" <merle@mail.fea.net>. She gave me permission to post this and her e-mail address. Do me favor, e-mail her only for information not to discuss your views on Irish or US politics. We haven't yet started to call each other Nazi and Hilter but we have started to tell each to leave 'the country' , which is amusing since the list international. Genealogy is history so at times we will find our discussing things politcially 'hot,' I do think we needn't poke each other in the eye. There is no doubt that the list has people of both Irish Republican [nothing to do with Bush] and Unionist's opinions, I can tell you that we can discuss this for month, for several years and we are not going to solve it on an e-mail list. I doubt we could solve or agree on an even simplier issue of whether gays should be able to marry. There is no doubt the list has Amercian Republicans and Amercian Democrats but the list is about Cavan. Hi Mike, I can imagine the discussion in Cavan!!! The short version of it is its the Protestant AOH. Ie it is a sectarian organization whose purpose was to help protect its community and foster its views and religion and harrass the other side. It grew out of the 1790s troubles. During various parts of its history it was illegal so of course there are no records. By around 1850 you find it in the USA and Canada where it gave charity to new immigrants: blankets, places to live, and jobs. The Indians in Canada formed their own lodges as Canada protected them agains the nasty US, who tried its best to exterminate them. Records: the Orangemen are lot a like Presbyterians: very independent. Each lodge elects its own members. So the quality and views vary a lot. The grand lodge tends to be much more moderate and forward thinking than the local lodges. Each lodge held its own records. Some end up centralized. In Ulster that's in GOLI (Grand Orange Lodge) and in the USA it was the Balch Institute, that is now the PA Historical Society or something like that. I have the email of the man who deposited the records of defunct American lodges there. If the lodge is not defunct, then the records are held by the local lodge. The same email can assist in finding out the status. This website can help: http://www.orangenet.org/ The Orange Order is undergoing a renaissance in the USA among evangelical Christians. It seems much more able to recruit them then Noraid, which was trying a few years ago. As such it is less focused on Ulster. The US group are totally apolitical though a few members are not. It's largely another men's club like the Masons. Most Protestant men would have been members of the Orange Order in Ireland in the latter 1800s and so on. I am sure that some were not due to religious reasons (don't believe in secret societies, etc). Some would have been kicked out for marrying Catholics too. Hope this info helps! Linda ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jazz is freedom. - T. Monk http://www.panix.com/~cassidy [Public key available.]
Just a suggestion - The history of the troubles, or whatever name you want to give it, in Ireland is a complex one going back to 1600s. Everyone involved has their own prejudices about it depending on which side of the fence they happen to be on. All I would say is that if you really want to try to learn and understand then you cannot do it by picking up snippets from a list . Get a good history book and study it. I recommend Robert Kee's Ireland - A History. It certainly taught me a great deal. We are all on this list because we have a common interest. We are a mix of people from 'both sides', historically but we still help each other when we can and long may that continue. I am lucky enough to live where nobody cares whether you are catholic or protestant.My children attend a catholic school which also has non- catholic children. I don't even know which ones are the non-catholics and I don't care. They are all just children. Let us all hope and pray that one day this can be the case in Northern Ireland too. God created all of us, and loves all of us equally. He wants us to love each other and that is what we need to be working towards. Pauline
On some family records and documents our ancestors last name is O'Reilly. On others it is Riley. Is their original surname O'Reilly shortened to Riley? Also, if an ancestors served with Wellington and received a pension and moved to Canada, would he still have received that pension in Canada (so far, I have not ascertained he qualified/received a pension - still researching). Thank you. "E"laine
Never in all my 74 years have I EVER been bored. Congrats to the Cavan list.The little 'pink' men achieved what I had thought impossible old jo -------------------------------- Visit my newsletter website at: www.btinternet.com/~finty/ ---------------------------------
Thought I'd change the header. "" They have to be carefully taught they have to be taught before it's too late before they are six, or seven or eight, To hate all the people their relatives hate. They have to be carefully Taught."" South Pacific: -------------------------------- Visit my newsletter website at: www.btinternet.com/~finty/ ---------------------------------
Are there no orange wimmen? are the children GBT.*..likely to be orange too..? Do the women...march too.? I shall watch the news for the 'marching season' beats the H*** out of footie jo * God Bless Them -------------------------------- Visit my newsletter website at: www.btinternet.com/~finty/ ---------------------------------
My mailwasher thingy indicated that all of these posts are possible 'SPAM' That just about sums it up j -------------------------------- Visit my newsletter website at: www.btinternet.com/~finty/ ---------------------------------
To the original correspondant on this subject (sorry I delete all emails after reading and haven't got your name ...ooops) I remembered there is a web site which has the Ulster Roll on it. I've only visited the site once and didn't note the address (I never do) but it has a scanned copy containing names (male and female) and places of residence for those who signed it . My memory tells me it was a petition against becoming part of Ireland. I think the web site is maintained by Ulster Archives or Libraries , Cyndis list would probably be the best place to go looking for it. You might well find the family names you are looking for on it. Many Protestants signed it and it's a scan of the original. regards. Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz
Jane Pearson & Bill Wheeler J T Pearson Outdoor Training 12 Mountfort Street Outram New Zealand Tel. 643 486 1363 jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland & Rosemary Golden" <margold56@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Orangemen > J.T. Pearson, et al.: Many years ago, when I was a freshman in college, I > had a prof say "There is no more brutal war than one waged in the name of > Religion. Both sides, except for the leadership, are driven by a > self-rightous zeal in pursuing the ends espoused by their faction. It is > incorrect to say, as you point out, that all Catholics hate Protestants or > that all Protestents hate Catholics. Which, from a personal perspective, is > very fortunate for me! Ian Paisley, is the "GEORGE WALLACE" of Ulster, ++ I'm sorry but who is George Wallace? he > was also the biggest money raiser that the IRA and Shien Fein ever had. ++ yes I always suspected that as well This > probably explains his longevity. But for too long he has been portrayed as > the acrhetypical Ulster Orangeman/Protestent. He is not! Gerry Adams and > Martin McGuiness are NOT the archetypical Ulster Catholic for that matter. > It is the politicians, and power brokers who keep this antagonism on the > front burner so that they may retain power, and power equates with > privaledge and money. Just look at the good old USofA today. ++ no arguements there. My problem with organisations SUCH AS the Orangemen is that they are the polite and public face of something unpleasant running much deeper. Although these organisations may not actively promote violence they can keep the bigotry and hatred going in the community long after it should have gone away. The more acceptable the front face the worse the problem as it becomes the norm for the community. > > Parades and celebrations are not, in and of themselves, foolish. What is > foolish is a celebration where the celebrants have no idea of the true > events which they are commerating. The Original Orangemen celebrated the > Battle of Aughrim which took place in July of 1691, one year after the > Battle of the Boyne which, courtesy of a young, bold, dashing, brave and > none too bright cavalry commander named Sedgewick, gave James II a victory > he apparently did not want. The Annual celebration of Aughrim is mentioned > in one of Kay Stanton's transcription of "The ANGLO-CELT" not too long ago. > James left Ireland the day after the Boyne, and William fled Ireland the day > after that. > > War, all war, is the statement of the ultimate failure of the human spirit. > Bill Golden, Green Harbor, Massachusetts > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN > >
Josi, The website I mentioned in my earlier post has information on Orange activities for both women and children. They also include historical and society information on the "Black Order" and on the "Border Rievers". Here is the link again: http://www.orangenet.org/ Kimberley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josi" <seosimhin@btopenworld.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 4:54 AM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] No wimmen? > > > Are there no orange wimmen? > are the children GBT.*..likely to be > orange too..? > Do the women...march too.? > I shall watch the news for the 'marching season' > beats the H*** out of footie > jo > > * God Bless Them > -------------------------------- > Visit my newsletter website at: > www.btinternet.com/~finty/ > --------------------------------- > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN > >
Histoy, Politics, and Religion are all interesting and necessary, but this list is for geneological research. Please return to that topic. Where is our list manager?
To all, With all the levity about Orangemen, I'd thought I'd share this small story about what happened at a local AOH years back. I attended weekly gaelic lessons that were being held for begginers. Near the end of each class, many at our table would start in on drinking talk and jokes. Me being a tea totaller wished to add in something of my own one night and jokingly asked if there are any irishmen who don't drink, the teached thus laughed & mentioned the society of Pioneers in Ireland. Then I pushed it and said "...I guess if one really wants to be sober they would join an Orange order." I started to chuckle, but I was the only one...all looks at the table turned deadly serious and that seemed to be the end of the discussion, and almost me as well. Kevin (I'm sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) O'Malley --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
As many others have said - LETS GET BACK TO GENEALOGY the reason we subscribe to this site Your quote 2nd reason is st patrick is another englishman telling irish have they should live St Patrick was a Roman captured as a slave http://nosid.tripod.com/patrick.htm Could we leave it at that please? Heather http://www.mccaskie.org.uk ======================================== CARADOC28@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/26/2004 11:09:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, kirish@webtv.net writes: > regarding "orangeman", I am surprised > that no one mentioned what I consider the cause of all the troubles of > Ireland from begin- ing to end (now)......England!! i believe i did 1st reason i want to be there at the 2nd comming as both sides explainwhy they killed their brother in his name 2nd reason is st patrick is another englishman telling irish have they should live egad> Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list Jim Denning ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) Heather Webmaster --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now