Dear Jane Thank you for your prompt reply to my query. The certificate I have is an 1855 Scottish one - and they give a treasure trove of information on the parties. I thought I had finally found the way over my brick wall but it appears I have a lot more work to do, as far as the Irish side of the family is concerned. What a pity they don't have the resources that the Scottish side does. Ah well - back to the drawing board. Thank you once again Kay (ex Glasgow now in Australia) PS: If you have any 'lost' rellies that you think might be in Ozzie land I would be happy to look.

"The Anglo Celt" Cavan; Thursday, December 23, 1852 COUNTY OF CAVAN Division of Cootehill A List of Applications received by the Clerk of the Peace from persons seeking Excise Licenses, for the Sale of Beer, Spirits, &c., by retail, within said county, pursuant to 3 & 4 William VI., chapter 68, and 6 & 7 William IV, ch. 38, to be heard and inquired into at BILIEBOROUGH on THURSDAY, the 6th day of January, 1853, immediately after the Grand Jury is sworn. No./ Name./ Residence./ Barony. 1./ ARMSTRONG, Joseph/ Kingscourt/ Clonkee 2./ BRADY, John/ Killcrone/ Tullygarvey 3./ BRADY, Francis/ Cootehill/ Tullygarvey 4./ CLARKE, John/ Cootehill, Tullygarvey 5./ CAROLAN, Patt/ Cootehill/ Tullygarvey 6./ DONOHOE, Patt/ Cornapaste/ Tullygarvey 7./ DOHERTY, Charles/ Baillieborough/ Clonkee 8./ HANLON, Arthur/ Knockbride/ Clonkee 9./ MOORE, Edward/ Coppenagh/ Castleraghan 10./ MARTIN, Owen/ Baillieborough/ Clonkee 11./ M'BREEN, Charles/ Knockbridge/ Clonkee NOTICE. THE EXECUTORS of the late Alexander DIXON, and Co., of Belturbet, hereby call upon all Persons Indebted to the Estate, forthwith to pay their respective Accounts, otherwise, proceedings at Law will be adopted for the recovery of same; and all persons to whom the late firm are indebted, are requested to furnish their Accounts, so that the same may be discharged. Belturbet Distillery, 20th December, 1852. MRS. HARRIET BEECHER STOWE THE ILLUSTRATED EXHIBITOR AND MAGAZINE OF ART for the week ending DECEMBER 25th, price Twopence, will contain a splendid Portrait of the Authoress of "Uncle Tom's Cabin." SPLENDID CHRISTMAS AND NEW-YEAR PRESENTS. PORTRAIT OF MRS. HARRIET BEECHER STOWE, Now ready, price 3s. in cloth, or extra cloth, gilt edges, 3s 6d. UNCLE TOM'S CABIN; with Twenty-seven Engravings from Designs by GEORGE CRUICKSHANK, Esq.; with an Original Introduction, Notice of the Authoress, MRS. HARRIET BEECHER STOWE, &c., and an excellent Portrait (secured by copyright) of this celebrated Lady. A superb Drawing-room Edition, in Demy Octavo, in extra cloth, gilt edges, 7s 6d., will be ready in a few days. THE First Volume of the ILLUSTRATED EXHIBITOR AND MAGAZINE OF ART, with upwards of Two Hundred beautiful Engravings, Price 6s. 6d., or with gilt edges, 7s 6d. Also, a large, thick, splendid Double Volume, consisting of Volumes I. and II. Of the above Work bound together, will be ready January I. Price 12s. bound, and gilt edges. THE LADIES' DRAWING-ROOM BOOK. Price 10s. 6d. elegantly bound in watered silk, gilt edges. This Volume contains upwards of thirty magnificent Engravings, with Sixty-four pages of appropriate Text. Also, One Hundred and Four pages of full directions for working in Crotchet, Point Lace, Embroidery, &c., with explanatory Engravings, consisting of nearly 100 patterns in every department of Ladies' Work. Will be ready by Christmas, price 2 s. 6d., THE LADIES' WORK BOOK; containing full instructions for every kind of Ladies' Work, in Point-Lace, Knitting, Embroidery, Crochet, &c.; forming the most splendid Book for the Work-table ever issued. This Work will contain an immense number of the Newest Designs for Ladies' Work, of every description, and will be produced in a style perfectly unique. The Half-Yearly selection of The history of the painters of all nations, INLCUIDNG THE Lives, Portraits, and Choice Specimens of the Works of MORILLIO, TENIERS, REMBRANDT, RUYSDARL, VALERTIN, ALBERT DURER; price, in stiff covers, 12s.; or bound in Cloth, 14s. THE PORTRAIT OF MRS. STOWE, printed on large fine Plate Paper, One Shilling. THE PORTRAIT OF THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON, on fine Plate Paper, One Shilling. THE ILLUSTRATED EXHIBITOR ALMANACK, with upwards of Thirty Engravings, price Sixpence, twelve of which represent the leading events of the past year. J. CASSELL, Ludgate-hill, London, and all Booksellers.

"The Anglo Celt" Cavan; Thursday, December 16, 1852 COUNTY OF CAVAN Division of Cavan A List of Applications received by the Clerk of the Peace from persons seeking excise Licenses, for the Sale of Beer, Spirits, &c., by retail, within said county, pursuant to 3 & 4 William IV., chapter 68, and 6 & 7 William IV, ch. 38, to be heard and inquired into at CAVAN, on MONDAY, the 3rd day of January, 1853, immediately after the Grand Jury is sworn. No./ Name./ Residence./ Barony. 1./ BELL, Benjamin/ Ballyjamesduff/ Castleraghan 2./ COLERAN, William/ Curfad/ Up. Loughtee 3./ McCAFFREY, Edward/ Ballconnell/ Tullyhaw 4./ REILLY, Elleinor (?)/ Cavan/ Up. Loughtee 5./ SHERIDAN, Thomas, Ballinaugh/ Clonmahon 6./ SHEEHAN, John/ Corlismore/ Clonmahon 7./ WHITE, Patrick GUSTAVUS TUITE DALTON, Clerk of Peace, Co. Cavan. Cavan, December 12, 1852 The lands of Ballinarry, county of Limerick, the estate of Mr. ODELL, was purchased on Friday last in the Encumbered Estates Court, by Charles LESLIE, Esq., of Delkey, for £5,650. BAWNBOY UNION. - The board of guardians of this union at their meeting on Monday, the 13th inst., appointed George REA, Esq., of Kildallen, Rivising Valuator to the union. We are sure from Mr. Rea's abilities and the experience he had in the same capacity in other unions he will give general satisfaction both to the guardian and rate-payers. County Cavan Newspaper Transcription Project

Dear Jeanne, There are a number of CAHILL's in the book, and there are McGorry's as well. Give me a couple days to compile them all, and write to my personal email and let me know how much you can take in attachments so I don't overload your system. I will get the pages scanned in over the next few days. Kimberley walterskk@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <SalvestJ@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 6:18 PM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Knockbridge History > Dear Kimberly, > > My grandparents, Luke CAHILL and Susan MAGORRY (McGORRY} were married in the > Catholic Chapel of Knockbride on July 5, 1902. He was from Crocknahattina and > she from Cullies according to the marriage certificate. Does your book show > anything on either CAHILL or MAGORRY (McGORRY) families in Knockbride. Luke's > father was John CAHILL. Susan's father was Philip MAGORRY (McGORRY) both > were farmers. Thanks so much for the lookup offer. Jeanne Cahill Salvest, > Mendham, NJ > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > >

Registration in the British isles did not start until 1837 in England and I think 1864 in Ireland so you will be out of luck for civil registration. You might be able to track down a baptism record if you can find out which parish he was from. You could also try the various survivng census for Co Cavan but they do not cover the whole of the county or all years. I don't know why the marriage cert would state he was registered in Ireland, perhaps it meant christened? Irish ancestors are a real pain! Jane Pearson jtpoutdoor@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "joseph steen" <jandksteen@optusnet.com.au> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 5:27 PM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] JAMES FITZPATRICK born CAVAN > I have a marriage certificate for the above ancestor. It states that he was born and Registered at County Cavan, Ireland (born about 1825-26). Can anyone tell me how to go about getting his birth certificate, or at least the information on his birth certificate? I would be most grateful. > > James' parents were John FITZPATRICK and MARGARET WHITE > > Many thanks > Kay > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN >

Hi Jeanne: http://www.ormond.i8.com/ is a free data base connection. It recently was shared by another lister here on IRL-CAVAN. I have marked it into my "favorites" because it has been so useful. A quick look this evening showed a Luke Cahill b. 18 Jun 1870 in Cavan. HIs father was John Cahill and the mother was Catherine Patterson. Didn`t have the same good luck with the Magorry or McGorry name. However, this site is so large, no telling what you might find. Yours Aye, Grant. ----- Original Message ----- From: <SalvestJ@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Knockbridge History > Dear Kimberly, > > My grandparents, Luke CAHILL and Susan MAGORRY (McGORRY} were married in the > Catholic Chapel of Knockbride on July 5, 1902. He was from Crocknahattina and > she from Cullies according to the marriage certificate. Does your book show > anything on either CAHILL or MAGORRY (McGORRY) families in Knockbride. Luke's > father was John CAHILL. Susan's father was Philip MAGORRY (McGORRY) both > were farmers. Thanks so much for the lookup offer. Jeanne Cahill Salvest, > Mendham, NJ > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > >

Dear Kimberly, My grandparents, Luke CAHILL and Susan MAGORRY (McGORRY} were married in the Catholic Chapel of Knockbride on July 5, 1902. He was from Crocknahattina and she from Cullies according to the marriage certificate. Does your book show anything on either CAHILL or MAGORRY (McGORRY) families in Knockbride. Luke's father was John CAHILL. Susan's father was Philip MAGORRY (McGORRY) both were farmers. Thanks so much for the lookup offer. Jeanne Cahill Salvest, Mendham, NJ

----- Original Message ----- From: <IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 1:00 PM Subject: IRL-CAVAN-D Digest V04 #196 Problem! There is never anything at all on the e-mails I receive from your site. Clicking on the attachment clip only brings up the e-mail form. any ideas?

I have a marriage certificate for the above ancestor. It states that he was born and Registered at County Cavan, Ireland (born about 1825-26). Can anyone tell me how to go about getting his birth certificate, or at least the information on his birth certificate? I would be most grateful. James' parents were John FITZPATRICK and MARGARET WHITE Many thanks Kay

Mary, The names are specific enough, but if you have any townlands or regions where you know they were from in Knockbride, that will help, and knowing if the were Catholic or Church of Ireland or Presbyterian can help when reading through the 55 pages of cemetery and church inscriptions. Feel free to write me at my personal email address or to post it to the list - I love the list as it gives your info so much more exposure and you never know just who out there may have the missing link! Kimberley ----- Original Message ----- From: <Shamrock1020@aol.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] (no subject) > Hi Kimberly............................Again, thanks for your offer to check > names from your book. Are there any McGinn's, Roan(e)'s, or Dowd's mentioned? > Or, do I need be more specific? > > Thanks. > > Mary > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN > >

In a message dated 6/6/2004 1:35:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, irishgramofgold@comcast.net writes: > I've noticed many queries about a Knockbridge Book. Are there books on > County Cavan's other places like Killinkere, Kilmore, etc? > I am descendant form a line of Felix Denning, 1868 in Killinkere and > Margaret Doughty, 1885 Killinkere my immediate grandparents. I have some > research done and found some thing on my own but so many blanks are left > unfilled. Is there any mention of Denning, Doughty, Smith, or Kiernan's in > the Knockbridge book? > Any help would be most appreciated. > Marguerite perhaps there is a way it requires a male? one named dennings or close to it <A HREF="http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Denning%26variants/">http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Denning%26variants/</A> will cause this line to be compared to <A HREF="http://www.odonoghue.co.uk/">http://www.odonoghue.co.uk/</A> & <A HREF="http://mctiernan.com/dnatest.htm"> http://mctiernan.com/dnatest.htm</A> & <A HREF="http://www.smithconnections.com/">http://www.smithconnections.com/</A> & <A HREF="http://www.southernsmiths.org/"> http://www.southernsmiths.org/</A> and all the other 8000 + lines . when you connect and eventually several people connect thats how you find the answers to . So then as people do it they will be compared against you and yours i have 16 people who matched mine from about 10 families. i know i'de like to hook felix into my tree Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list Jim Denning

Marguirite, If there are other books like the one I am borrowing, I don't know about them. The book I have is titled "Knockbride - A History", and it is edited by two gentlemen, Eugene Markey and John Clarke, and while I can locate no date of publication, it was within the last 10-15 years. I don't know if it is still available for purchase, but another lister, Barbara Hollis, has been looking for this book for a while and stated in her last post that it is out of print. I borrowed my copy from a dear, sweet lady I met in my visit to Bailieborough, Cavan, Ireland, this past week. I met her on the street when I was looking for information on the whereabouts of a public restroom, and it turns out she is a relative! The book belonged to her late husband, and she graciously allowed me to borrow it. I am attempting to scan it to be able to keep the information for reference, and then return it to her by mail as soon as possible. I have another book, written by a Killinkere native, again, not available to purchase any longer, that deals more particularly with the Killinkere area, and I am in the middle of attempting to create a surname database for that book. It may take me some time (and since I will be out of town for July and August, that may mean a few months), but I will be happy to keep a lookout for your names in both books and let you know if I find anything. You may write to my at my email address and tell me any other details you think helpful - knowing if they were Catholic, Church of Ireland, or Presbyterian can help with the Knockbride book, and any townlands or specific regions associated with your family can also assist me to be extra careful when perusing those lists. Kimberley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marguerite" <irishgramofgold@comcast.net> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 1:35 PM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Other Books? > > > Hi, > > I've noticed many queries about a Knockbridge Book. Are there books on > County Cavan's other places like Killinkere, Kilmore, etc? > I am descendant form a line of Felix Denning, 1868 in Killinkere and > Margaret Doughty, 1885 Killinkere my immediate grandparents. I have some > research done and found some thing on my own but so many blanks are left > unfilled. Is there any mention of Denning, Doughty, Smith, or Kiernan's in > the Knockbridge book? > Any help would be most appreciated. > Marguerite > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > For the IRL-CAVAN-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/IRL-CAVAN > >

Hi, I've noticed many queries about a Knockbridge Book. Are there books on County Cavan's other places like Killinkere, Kilmore, etc? I am descendant form a line of Felix Denning, 1868 in Killinkere and Margaret Doughty, 1885 Killinkere my immediate grandparents. I have some research done and found some thing on my own but so many blanks are left unfilled. Is there any mention of Denning, Doughty, Smith, or Kiernan's in the Knockbridge book? Any help would be most appreciated. Marguerite

Kimberly. Would you mind looking in your book for the surname Riley-Reilly? I have searching for five years for my GGGrandparents, Bernard and Margaret Riley. Don't have any idea where they came from in Ireland. Please, if you have time, would sure appreciate it. Helen Rehm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimberley Walters" <walterskk@hotmail.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] History of Knockbride Book wanted > Dear Malcolm, > > A quick glance through the Tithe Applotments and the registered dog owners > list and the Registered Weapons list and the tenant lists for the Skeagh > estate and the Garvagh estate turns up no SEAMANs of any spelling. If they > were known to be from the town or parish of Bailieborough, that might > explain their absence in Knockbride, though you never know - I have found my > family in 3 neighboring parishes, and apparently doing a lot more traveling > than I would have thought! If you can tell me if they were Catholic or > Protestant I can more quickly scan the cemetery inscriptions portion of the > book to see if they might be listed there. Sorry! > > Kimberley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Malcolm Campbell" <malcolmr.campbell@sympatico.ca> > To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] History of Knockbride Book wanted > > > > Hi Kimberly > > > > Thanks for extending your lookup offer. Are any SEAMANs mentioned? They > were in > > Baillieborough Cavan until the early 1830's when they emmigrated to > Clarendon > > Twp., Quebec, Canada. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Malcolm Campbell > > Windsor, ON > > Canada > > ************ > > Kimberley Walters wrote: > > > > > Julia, > > > > > > Absolutely, I'm happy to do whatever I can for anyone in the group. > > > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > > > > > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > >

Hi Kimberly............................Again, thanks for your offer to check names from your book. Are there any McGinn's, Roan(e)'s, or Dowd's mentioned? Or, do I need be more specific? Thanks. Mary

DEar Kimberly Thank you for looking for my SEAMANs. They were likely Protestant as they were Orangemen. From an old family bible, seven SEAMAN brothers came to Ireland in the body guard of William of Orange. They were likely originally Dutch mercenaries, though I have no proof. Two of the seven remained when William returned to rule England. Thanks for your time and efforts Malcolm ********** Kimberley Walters wrote: > Dear Malcolm, > > A quick glance through the Tithe Applotments and the registered dog owners > list and the Registered Weapons list and the tenant lists for the Skeagh > estate and the Garvagh estate turns up no SEAMANs of any spelling. If they > were known to be from the town or parish of Bailieborough, that might > explain their absence in Knockbride, though you never know - I have found my > family in 3 neighboring parishes, and apparently doing a lot more traveling > than I would have thought! If you can tell me if they were Catholic or > Protestant I can more quickly scan the cemetery inscriptions portion of the > book to see if they might be listed there. Sorry! > > Kimberley

Dear Malcolm, A quick glance through the Tithe Applotments and the registered dog owners list and the Registered Weapons list and the tenant lists for the Skeagh estate and the Garvagh estate turns up no SEAMANs of any spelling. If they were known to be from the town or parish of Bailieborough, that might explain their absence in Knockbride, though you never know - I have found my family in 3 neighboring parishes, and apparently doing a lot more traveling than I would have thought! If you can tell me if they were Catholic or Protestant I can more quickly scan the cemetery inscriptions portion of the book to see if they might be listed there. Sorry! Kimberley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Malcolm Campbell" <malcolmr.campbell@sympatico.ca> To: <IRL-CAVAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] History of Knockbride Book wanted > Hi Kimberly > > Thanks for extending your lookup offer. Are any SEAMANs mentioned? They were in > Baillieborough Cavan until the early 1830's when they emmigrated to Clarendon > Twp., Quebec, Canada. > > Thanks, > > Malcolm Campbell > Windsor, ON > Canada > ************ > Kimberley Walters wrote: > > > Julia, > > > > Absolutely, I'm happy to do whatever I can for anyone in the group. > > > ==== IRL-CAVAN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or > mailto:IRL-CAVAN-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) > >

Hi Kimberly Thanks for extending your lookup offer. Are any SEAMANs mentioned? They were in Baillieborough Cavan until the early 1830's when they emmigrated to Clarendon Twp., Quebec, Canada. Thanks, Malcolm Campbell Windsor, ON Canada ************ Kimberley Walters wrote: > Julia, > > Absolutely, I'm happy to do whatever I can for anyone in the group.

Kimberly, Not sure what is in this book but would appreciate a lookup for Patrick Farley (Farrelly). All I know so far is that he was from County Cavan and served with the Duke of Wellington. Went to Canada ca 1836. Thank you. Elaine

Why Chelsea. a new settlement just north of Boston,Ma. I have done lot of work in Chelsea and as early as 1810-20 sone Irish showed up. Way before the following book s account of it. Thomas O'Connor's book "the Boston Irish" states before cathoic churchs were allowed many Catholics attended anglican services . So when St . Rose of Lime was started these Irish were already here. St. Rose's put out a book when they rebuilt and it says "It is not known precisely, who was the first Catholic to settle in Chelsea. It is know that there were a few here as early as 1833, just a mere "corporal's guard."The first Catholic settler of whom there is any definite information was Michael McLaughlin. He with Michael Farren landed in Halifax from Ireland in 1833 and after some months came to Boston, walking all the way. Mr. McLaughlin proceeded immediately to Chelsea. While Mr. Farren remained in Boston for about ten years and then moved to Chelsea. It is said that Hugh Gilmore, another Irish settler lived in No.Chelsea.Now known as Revere, as early as 1843." But why Chelsea? It defiantly sounds like this was the intended destination. Now since I started this I also realize that most of Chelsea Irish are from Leitrim, Sligo, Carvan, Longford and Meath, With Leitrim winning hands down. Then this week I thought with all these names I have done. Some where very Protestant but very Irish. Suppose in some area of Leitrim, a Protestant land owner and businessman [Scot Irish] was run out of Ireland by the Church Of England, as many where. Say this man started a business in Chelsea maybe a spice, lithography, Cigar,or Tile business, and he needed good workers. The problem was he was in New England and not considered a Townie. A factor still in effect in small town New England. Now back in Ireland he was friendly with the Roman Catholics and he heard of the starting migration. Why wouldn't he seek out workers he could deal with? Lol and he usually got the better of. So that maybe that is why they came to Chelsea. It defiantly was a better place then Boston was for the Irish Jim who thanks Chelsea for welcoming those Immigrants i believe that town was somewhere in Leitrim,Longford,Cavan, or Meath and it seems the whole town tranfered to Chelsea Chelsea,Ma.-Woburn,Ma.-denning-dennen-danin-dinan-dinihey-denningston-dinning- carlon-carroll-dever-cogan-malone-heslin-piscopo-mazzola-martini-farrell-mchug h-farley-grimes-lynch-doherty-SanDanto,Ita-Adargh,longford-Revere,Ma-Wintrop,M a.-sprague- and ever growing list Jim Denning