Looking for Tully from Belturbet, Cavan Michael Tully emigrated in 1912 with his wife Catherine Agnes Brady, also from Cavan Met in NY by James Tuyy, a cousin, who lived in Brooklyn Catherine a.k.a. Kate returned to Ireland with one son Peter Joseph and returned to the US again in 1920. They lived in Brooklyn and had two more sons Francis and John. Appreciate any information .. MaryPat **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)

While doing some research for a Glasgow mystery, I was wandering about the 1855 Scotland Births microfilm. The questions asked of the Informant for a Birth that year, its what we wish was asked every year. However, the questions asked were about halved beginning 1 Jan 1856, a few were re-instated later but 1855 is still the best Registration year ever for Scotland. For a Birth, the age, occupation, birthdate and PLACE were asked for each parent. Many times I see Irish counties written. In this one, the parents were both from Cavan county : 1855 Births, Central District, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland Entry # 171 : Elizabeth McCABE born Feb 25, 4:50pm at 75 High Street, Glasgow to James McCABE [Mason's Labourer, 30y born Cavan Ireland] and Elizabeth McCABE ms TRAINER [her 2nd child, 30y born Cavan Ireland]. They wed 1850 in Glasgow and had 1 girl deceased at this date. Informant was the father who ws present at the birth and signed [X] witnessed by William BROWN and William ALCORN. Registered 28 Feb at Glasgow. Thomas Davidson, Registrar. I am viewing a microfilmed image of the official Registration entry made at the local GRO in the Central District of Glasgow. Its the same document you'd get if you went to New Register House in Edinburgh. Will Post these as I find them. This is all the information in the entry, I'm not related to the McCABES. Can send JPGs [2 images per 1855 entry] if requested. MegG in Oklahoma USA ========================

Griffith's was done in Co. Armagh in 1864. However, Grenham's Tracing Your Irish Ancestors also shows a valuation just of Co. Armagh in 1839. You might ask people on the Armagh list about that. Diane

Thank you. By any chance, do you know when Co. Armagh was conducted? I have ancestors there too. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Daily" <cullivans@gmail.com> To: <irl-cavan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CAVAN] Tithe Applotment and Griffith's Evaluation Question > Cavan was conducted between 1856 and 1857. > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Karen <KarenHart@maine.rr.com> wrote: >> What's the date of the Griffith's Evaluation? >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CAVAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Patrice, I'm not an expert on this--you could learn more by Googling the terms or checking an Irish genealogy book--but will take a quick stab at your questions. If someone was quite young at the time of the Tithes, he or she might still be listed as either an occupier in Griffith's, but in most cases it's probably a relative--son, younger brother, nephew, etc. Occupiers paid immediate lessors to live on land owned by the lessors (or someone else the lessor leased from). Occupiers had no legal right to the land and could be evicted at the lessor's pleasure, especially in hard times, but generally stayed on the same bit of land generation after generation (see revised valuation lists in the LDS catalog). In the land reforms of the early 20th century occupiers were finally enabled to buy the land their families had worked for generations. Diane

What's the date of the Griffith's Evaluation? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrice Schadt" <pschadt@tampabay.rr.com> To: <IRL-CAVAN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:29 AM Subject: [IRL-CAVAN] Tithe Applotment and Griffith's Evaluation Question > Can the Tithe Applotment records be used with Griffith's Evaluation to > determine family relationships? For example if Patrick Fitzsimons is > listed in Kilmore, Killinkere, Cavan in the Tithe Applotment and is still > listed in Griffith's in 1856, is there a way to determine if they are the > same person? Is the list in Tithe in the same order as Griffith's? If > Patrick is there in 1824 but Owen is there in 1856, is Owen living on the > property of Patrick? Is real estate handed down generation by generation? > How is land transferred/ Are there records for land transfer? > > > > Any help or insight would be appreciated. > > > > Thank you for your time. > > > > Patrice Houck Schadt > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11060 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CAVAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cavan was conducted between 1856 and 1857. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Karen <KarenHart@maine.rr.com> wrote: > What's the date of the Griffith's Evaluation? >

Yes - those give clues. What you want to do is focus on "land" records. They have what the FHL calls: "General Valuation Records" - think of them as the record since "Griffith's Valuation". They list who the current tenants, owners are and the dates when they were no longer the responsible parties. That is a direct clue of when they emigrated to another country. This is a terrific resource for County Cavan. Look in the FHL online library catalog: Ireland, Cavan - Land and property Titles A copy of the registry of freeholders in the County of Cavan ..<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=166324&disp=A+copy+of+the+registry+of+freeholders+in> Ireland. Court of Quarter Sessions of the Peace (Cavan) General Valuation revision lists, Bailieborough Union (Cavan), 1857-1894<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=136556&disp=General+Valuation+revision+lists%2C+Bail> Great Britain. Office of the General Valuation of Ireland General Valuation revision lists, Bawnboy Union (Cavan), 1857-1933<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=141098&disp=General+Valuation+revision+lists%2C+Bawn> Great Britain. Office of the General Valuation of Ireland General Valuation revision lists, Cavan Union (Cavan), 1857-1944<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=141209&disp=General+Valuation+revision+lists%2C+Cava> Great Britain. Office of the General Valuation of Ireland General valuation revision lists, Cootehill Union (Cavan Registration District, Cavan Portion), 1857-1945<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=1009924&disp=General+valuation+revision+lists%2C+Coot> Great Britain. Office of the General Valuation of Ireland General Valuation revision lists, Enniskellen Union (Cavan portion), 1857-1945<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=190006&disp=General+Valuation+revision+lists%2C+Enni> Great Britain. Office of the General Valuation of Ireland General Valuation revision lists, Granard Union (Mullaghoran Registration District, Cavan portion), 1857-1938<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=141387&disp=General+Valuation+revision+lists%2C+Gran> Great Britain. Office of the General Valuation of Ireland General Valuation revision lists, Oldcastle Union (Castlerahan Registration District, Cavan), 1857-1938<http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=141173&disp=General+Valuation+revision+lists%2C+Oldc> Great Britain. Office of the General Valuation of Ireland On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Patrice Schadt <pschadt@tampabay.rr.com>wrote: > Can the Tithe Applotment records be used with Griffith's Evaluation to > determine family relationships? For example if Patrick Fitzsimons is > listed in Kilmore, Killinkere, Cavan in the Tithe Applotment and is still > listed in Griffith's in 1856, is there a way to determine if they are the > same person? Is the list in Tithe in the same order as Griffith's? If > Patrick is there in 1824 but Owen is there in 1856, is Owen living on the > property of Patrick? Is real estate handed down generation by generation? > How is land transferred/ Are there records for land transfer? > > > > Any help or insight would be appreciated. > > > > Thank you for your time. > > > > Patrice Houck Schadt > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11060 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CAVAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It has been my understanding that in the Catholic Church, close family members or friends were used as baptismal sponsors. This line of thinking may be leading me down the wrong road and I am becoming more confused in my thinking about the relationships of Irish families. My ancestor was Patrick Fitzsimons and Fanny Kiernan. Based on baptismal records, I believe Patrick had the following siblings: Phil, Anne, Owen, John and Mary, who is either a sibling or Phil and John each had a spouse named Mary. My Patrick and Fanny not only witnessed the wedding of a child of Owen Fitzsimons and his wife, but they were baptismal sponsors for Owen's first child named, Patrick (either after Owen's father Patrick or the baptismal sponsor Patrick). For this reason I supposed that Owen was also a sibling of my Patrick. There is a Patrick Kiernan and wife, Catherine Fitzsimons, who also resided close to Kilmore and my Patrick Fitzsimons and Fanny Kiernan were baptismal sponsors to their son, Patrick. Which lead me to think that there was a relationship there. Patrick Kiernan and Catherine Fitzsimons marriage record shows the parents of Patrick Kiernan as Felix Kiernan of Kilmore and Andrew Fitzsimons (I think he was of Kilmore, as well). Kilmore is where my Patrick Fitzsimons and Fanny Kiernan are from. This led me to conclude that my Patrick was a sibling of Catherine and Fanny was a sibling of Patrick Kiernan, and therefore a son of Andrew and a daughter of Felix. The logic became flawed when I received the marriage record of Owen Fitzsimons, which shows him as the son of Patt Fitzsimons. Patt, being spelled the same as my Patrick Fitzsimons in several of the records that I have found. In the Kiernan/Fitzsimons marriage, the child Patrick was named most likely for the father. I could think that my Fanny was a sibling to Patrick Kiernan, and that is possible, since his father Felix lived in the town of Kilmore. But then, why weren't there more Kiernan baptismal sponsors for the children of my Patrick Fitzsimons and Fanny Kiernan? In Baptismal records, are the female sponsors listed by their married names or maiden names? Any help or insight on determining these relationships would be appreciated. Thank you for your time. Patrice Schadt E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11060 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

Can the Tithe Applotment records be used with Griffith's Evaluation to determine family relationships? For example if Patrick Fitzsimons is listed in Kilmore, Killinkere, Cavan in the Tithe Applotment and is still listed in Griffith's in 1856, is there a way to determine if they are the same person? Is the list in Tithe in the same order as Griffith's? If Patrick is there in 1824 but Owen is there in 1856, is Owen living on the property of Patrick? Is real estate handed down generation by generation? How is land transferred/ Are there records for land transfer? Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thank you for your time. Patrice Houck Schadt E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11060 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

Hi list, Below is a list of relatives of my great grandmother from her obituary. Mary (Molly), the daughter of Patrick Flood and Bridget Reilly. She was born 24 May 1868 in Virginia, Co. Cavan. Her father was said to have come from Oldcastle, Co. Meath. Her husbands family came from Balgree, Carnaross, Co. Meath. Does anyone recognise any of the individuals listed ? Thank you, Declan Anglo Celt of 3 October 1903. Death of Mary McDonnell Died 29th Sept 1903 Chief Mourners Richard McDonnell - husband Ernest McDonnell - son Vera, Moya, Evelyn, Viola and Lillian - daughters. Cousins:- Hugh McDonnell, Kells ( ? brother of Richard lived 1866-1907) Wm. John, Patk, Matt, and Michael Mulvanny Mrs. O'Mara Miss O'Reilly, Woodpole John Smith, Carnaross Patk. Tully John Hoey, Kells P.Hand ( a Pat Hand was godfather to Molly's sister Matilda in 1864) Sisters-in-law:- Mrs. McKenna (sister of Richard, Catherine m. James McKenna) Mrs. Cuddy (sister of Richard, Rose m. Cuddy) Brother-in-law:- Michael McDonnell (brother of Richard m. Julia Mulvanny) Alex, Matt. and Peter McDonnell Mrs. Dunce Mrs. Conaty Mrs. Beggan (1st cousin of Richard, Matthew McDonnell, had a dau. Ann m. Tommy Beggan) Mrs. Plunkett Phil Reilly, Oakley Phil Smith, Coole (of Coole, Kilmainhamwood, Richard's 1st cousin, Phil's aunt Ann m. John McDonnell). L. Farrelly, Oldcastle Michael and Patrick Farrelly John Plunkett Jas. Healy Mrs. Flynn P and M Reilly Tom Tully O Smith Wreaths were sent by:- Mrs. Farrelly, Fortwilliam Miss S. Lynch Mr. Elliott and family Mr. Joe Carroll, Edenburt Mrs. Bridget Carolan, Virginia Jack and Rose Cuddy, Athlone (sister of Richard, Rose m. Cuddy) J.J. and E Matthews, Virginia Mrs. McKenna and family, Lislin Mullagh (sister of Richard, Catherine m. James McKenna) Josie McKenna, Lislin Mrs. Lizzie Healy, Virginia Miss M. O'Reilly, Virginia Aunt Flood and cousin Mary, Oldcastle Miss Willcock, Bailieboro'

In looking into this - this is apparently: Ann Shields Born: 22 Feb 1843 - County Cavan, Ireland Died: 4 May 1893 - San Antonio, Bexar County, Texas Md. 2 Dec 1861 - San Antonio, Bexar County, Texas Charles B. Johnson Born: 3 Oct 1830 - Kennilworth, Warwickshire, England Died: 19 Jun 1908 - San Antonio, Bexar County, Texas There are more details - but I wanted to ID her to the list. I really like seeing County Cavan people - particularly the women who can quickly disappear in the records - identified in the archives of this list. Hats off to Sarah Reveley for posting this cemetery stone find to the list. Tom Thomas Jay Kemp Thomas.J.Kemp@gmail.com Working on multiple Cavan families: Kemp, Johnston, Wilson, Griffiths, Smith, Williams, Henderson, Horton, Armstrong and others. On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 1:19 AM, SarahReveley <sarahreveley@grandecom.net>wrote: > Took photos of these graves today in the old Catholic cemetery in San > Antonio, Texas, don't know anything about them but thought somebody might be > looking for them. Happy to send a photo upon request. ;-) > Sarah Reveley, > San Antonio, Texas > > "You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas" - Davy Crockett > > Annie > Beloved wife of Chas. Johnson > Born > In Co. Cavan Ire. > Feb 22, 1843 > Died > May 4, 1893 > > *****ALSO SAW**** > > John Dwyer > >From the County Kerry > Castle Island > Died Jan 2, 1882 > In San Antonio, Texas > Aged 85 years____ > Bridget Dwyer > >From the County Kerry > Castle Island > > ***** > Catherine > wife of > C.McMonagle > Born in Co. Cork > Ireland 1825 > Died July 15 1865 > > ***** > Edward Dwyer > born in > Dublin Ireland > Nov 5 1808 > Died April 27 1854 > ____ > Mariana L. Dwyer > Died July 17, 1867 > >

Thanks again for your help. Graveyard info didn't contain 'my' Robert, but has many other connections. Also I have made contact with a family member who has confirmed that the Robert in the article, is my ancestor. A puzzle, and a few legends, solved.

Sarah, do you mind if I forward your names at the yahoo Ireland list run by Jane Lyons, if you aren't a member? Nancy ----- Original Message -----

Took photos of these graves today in the old Catholic cemetery in San Antonio, Texas, don't know anything about them but thought somebody might be looking for them. Happy to send a photo upon request. ;-) Sarah Reveley, San Antonio, Texas "You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas" - Davy Crockett Annie Beloved wife of Chas. Johnson Born In Co. Cavan Ire. Feb 22, 1843 Died May 4, 1893 *****ALSO SAW**** John Dwyer >From the County Kerry Castle Island Died Jan 2, 1882 In San Antonio, Texas Aged 85 years____ Bridget Dwyer >From the County Kerry Castle Island ***** Catherine wife of C.McMonagle Born in Co. Cork Ireland 1825 Died July 15 1865 ***** Edward Dwyer born in Dublin Ireland Nov 5 1808 Died April 27 1854 ____ Mariana L. Dwyer Died July 17, 1867

Sorry, make that a CAVAN county birth, I was looking for Donegal when I spotted this one. Wrote too fast.... Here is the listing again, no changes, just my note that it was in Donegal is wrong : 1878 Births, 1st Quarter, Thomas FAUX, Baillieborough, volume 2 page 432. MEG

Was doing lookups in the "F"s for Births and found this for a Donegal birth. It was a most unusual name for Ireland, so I wrote it down. Have no further information on this entry and am not related. Its the INDEX information only. Being 1878, a film of the original entry is available to order into any Family History Center : 1878 Births, 1st Quarter, Thomas FAUX, Baillieborough, volume 2 page 432. If anyone would wish to order in a film of the original, it would be in film #255998 which covers 1878 births, 1st quarter, volume 2-1 and volume 2-2. When it arrives, scroll through the film to page 432 and look down the list of births [up to 20 on a page] for Thomas FAUX. This Registration will be the same one you'd get if you ordered from the GRO in Roscommon. Meg Greenwood / Oklahoma USA ====================

Have you checked the RC records for Bailieborough (Killann)? Diane

Dear list James DONNELLY (1826-1888) and Jane nee McCAULEY emigrated in 1853 to Australia. James's parents are given as Francis Donnelly and Ellen ARMSTRONG and Jane's as Peter McGOLLY ? and Mary. The emigration records state James was from Bailieborough, a Roman Catholic and both sets of parents were living in Tullynaskeagh. A map check has confirmed that these places are close, and Francis and other Donnelly names appear on Griffiths Valuation records. Can anyone with a knowledge of Cavan research advise how I may possibly go further back on the Donnelly family? Any hints? How big were Tullynaskeagh, Bailieborough, and Virginia in the 1850's? What was happening t that time? (besides the famine) Can anyone advise of any websites which may help. Finally if there is anyone researching family or local history in those area's I would love to hear from you too. Thankyou Di in Australia

According to the page from our Bible, my great grandfather sailed for America in the year 1851and was from the area of Scrabby/Portanure/Aghaveans. His name was John B. Murray and he was born about 1833. The "B" could be for Brennan. His father was Francis Murray who died April 20, 1841 at the age of 56. His mother's first name was Ellen and she died January 7, 1861 at the age of 67. John had five siblings: (1) Ellen Murray who died April 7, 1851 at the age of 20; (2) Owen Murray who died November 15, 1865 at the age of 40; (3) Michael (or Michial) Murray who died September 28, 1868 at the age of 55; (4) Catherine Murray who died February 15, 1886 at the age of 67 and (5) Margret Murray who died December 23,1898 at the age of 77. Also listed on the page are a brother-in-law, Mike Riley who died April 20,1851 at the age of 30 and a nephew Francis Riley who died December 11, 1852 at the age of 11months. John settled in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where he married Mary Riley, who bore him nine children.