Thanks Jerry for the information. I intend to follow this up in the upcoming weeks. Thanks, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jerry Kelly Sent: 15 March 2012 16:53 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Ballybreen 1738 Hi Trevor, I'm coming late to this so you may know all this already.  As Michael detailed at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/PPP_Doc_1807.htm , Ballybreen is in the parish of Myshall.  As you know, Myshall is mentioned in your lease from 1738.  The parish of Myshall still exists in Carlow:  http://www.myshalldrumphea.com/default.htm .  Maybe they can point out the townland of Ballybreen. Alternatively, you may be able to use the map references on http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/county_carlow_townlands3.htm to map each of the townlands and other locations listed in the 1738 lease.  That may provide a kind of triangulation for Ballybreen.  (No doubt it's there but under a new or different name.)   It will be best to start with the English names (Templepeter, Pollardstown / Pollerton).  Because those English name meant something to an English-speaking population, it's likely that they did not change as much in spelling over time as the gobbledygook used by the Ordnance Survey in place of the original Irish Gaelic names.  (If the Ordnance Survey had stuck to the Irish Gaelic names, you'd probably be done by now.)   Eventually, the records of the Ordnance Survey may provide the confirmation you need.  They still exist for Carlow in the national Ordnance Survey office and the National Archives  ( http://www.nationalarchives.ie/research/research-guides-and-articles/guide-to-the-records-of-the-ordnance-survey/ ), and also apparently in the Royal Irish Academy (  http://sources.nli.ie/Record/MS_UR_051866 ).  These last are the "letters".  These will likely be your best source because their role was to discuss each placename in each townland in each barony in each district, not just map them.  The job of the Ordnance Survey was to identify all the placenames of Ireland, map them, and give them an anglicized name according to some kind of phonetic system they developed.  As far as I know and have ever heard, the Ordnance Survey had no authority to merge or delete placenames, so I think your correspondent in the valuation office has put you astray on that point.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_Ireland Go raibh sé sin cabhrach  /  Hope that's helpful, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannacha [email protected] www.irishtribes.com --- On Wed, 2/29/12, Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> wrote: From: Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Ballybreen 1738 To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 9:44 PM Thanks Mick for that information., Still no joy with this. I send an email to the logainm.ie(placenames) website and I also visited the valuation office today regarding Ballybreen(in the barony of Forth) and I received similar responses from both sources. "There are eleven townlands that begin with "Ballyb..." in the County of Carlow though Ballybreen is not one of them.  There is a townland called Ballybreen within the parish of Templeshanbo in Co Wexford that is not far from the border with Co. Carlow which may be the place you are looking for. If the placename predates the Griffith Evaluation you'll need to go to the Genealogy Office within the National Library of Ireland and see if they can help you as the records only go back to approximately 1850." The newest reference to Ballybreen i have found is 1832 is the item below from the National Archives. Testator Surname: Dunn, William Document Type: Administration Document Status: Transcript Date of Will: 1832 Where Granted/Proved: Leighlin Diocese Executor Surname: Clowry Executor Given: Catherine Executor Address: Ballybreen, Co. Carlow Reference: IAR/1832/F/88 Volume Name: 4/237 The staff member in the valuation office seemed to suggest that at a certain point in the 1800s someone decided to try and document the townlands/placenames in Ireland and some townlands/placenames where merged with others. I'll see what the NLI have to say about it and let you all know. Thanks, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 27 February 2012 13:18 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Ballybreen 1738 * From: The Burton Papers stored in Carlow County Library. Document code *P1/0083 * Date *13 November 1738 * Description *Lease made between Mary Wall (also Dowdal), widow of Ulick Wall, Pollardstown (Pollerton), county Catherlogh (Carlow), and Anthony Allen, of same place, esquire, in respect of one-third of the following townlands: Graigue[bridge], Templepeter, Clovashoneen, Molacraheen, Banogadadda Farrasbrahane, Cappaghmore [ ] Monemore, Ballyculloon, Ballybreen, Pollardstown. Also one-third part of a moiety of Killane and Myshall. All lands are in the barony of Forth, county Carlow. Lease to run for 31 years at annual rent of £115 sterling. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12