I have to agree with your disagreement with me. Michael Brennan is indeed the spark without which we would have no forum much less one of the best online. I did say that Turtle was only one of our many sources of wisdom. I still put you at the peak but for that lofty position I also credit you with the possession, protection, preservation and now publication of the PPP. A goldmine of information which we are now tapping thanks to you! Happy belated 800th birthday Catherlogh! Being late is no excuse to not have a party! Tom Sent from my iPad On 2012-09-19, at 15:55, "michael purcell" <[email protected]> wrote: > thanks Tom but I can't say I agree with you......there are many who have > contributed articles, photos, maps, family trees, extracts from baptism / > marriage registers, newspaper reports and all matters of exchanges, views > and news to this site (including yourgoodself ) and as a member of the > long established and respected Carlow family, the McClintock-Bunburys, it > is great having Turtle on board but much of our appreciation has to be > directed to Michael Brennan for his dedication and administration skills. > As regards Carlow Castle and not intending to rain on anyone's parade I > guess it could be said on reflection by present-day historians the > castle was "officially" opened in 1213...!!..---- it just bothers me a > little that data on Wikipedia and other internet sites was changed recently > to make it appear that the castle was completed circa1213 as if to > accommodate a celebration in 2013 ?. ----- ... > .I have checked my notes, the first Seneschal of Carlow Castle, Geoffry > Fitz-Robert, was appointed in 1207 .....Extract of one reference to the > castle from the Charter, granted in 1208 to the Burgess of Catherlagh by > William Earl Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, states "That no Burgess shall be > drawn into any suit, or answer any plea which shall arise within the bounds > of the Borough, in the castle, or elsewhere, than in the hundred court of > the town; except pleas which concern the men of my castle or my bailiffs; > but it shall be held in the hundred court of the town".....the Charter was > witnessed by John Marshall, Thomas Fitz-Winton, (Seneschal of Leinster), > Falk Fitz-Warine, Walter Purcell, William Grasse, Junior, Hamond Grasse, > Roger Hyde, Rudolph de Ralegh, Robert de Crupt, Masters Henry, Hugh, Ralph > and Robert, clerks, and many other assembled Burgesses and bailiffs. > > On 17 September 2012 14:06, Tom LaPorte <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Sure, "just primary school stuff", I guess lots of primary school >> students "have researched data on Carlow Castle for many years, delving >> into records at the Tower of London,the British Record Office, National >> Archives at Kew and various private collections in England". That's >> probably in the standard primary school curriculum over there. Must be >> expensive to send all those kids to England though. >> We are very fortunate to have many sources of wisdom (meticulously >> researched knowledge) on this site, Turtle is another of them, but Michael >> is right at the top and I also bow to Michael's knowledge and his value to >> this forum. >> In the meantime I was going through all my medieval notes on Carlow and >> finding very little and can now add these little details. Thank you once >> again Michael. >> Tom >> >>> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:28:35 +0100 >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] CARLOW CASTLE >>> >>> thanks Turtle but "abundant wisdom" is a bit over the top.....really just >>> primary school stuff....... >>> >>> On 17 September 2012 11:05, Turtle Bunbury (History) < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Michael, >>>> That is precisely why the county is so lucky to have you and your >> abundant >>>> wisdom. I was informed last week of gathering momentum for a big >>>> celebratory do for 'Carlow 800' which was to be based around the >>>> Wikipedia-dated completion of the castle to 1213. >>>> However, I think that your conclusions that this would, in fact, be the >>>> 'Carlow 803' will put paid to such a plan - and in good time too. >> There >>>> will be other excuses for a party but yes, it would be improper to >> distort >>>> such dates. >>>> Many thanks, >>>> Turtle >>>> >>>> >>>> Turtle Bunbury >>>> >>>> www.turtlebunbury.com >>>> >>>> Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland >>>> Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 >> Skype: >>>> turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury >>>> >>>> On 16 Sep 2012, at 19:50, michael purcell wrote: >>>> >>>>> no idea what would give you that idea !.....I have researched data on >>>>> Carlow Castle for many years, delving into records at the Tower of >>>> London, >>>>> British Record Office, National Archives at Kew and various private >>>>> collections in England, hope to publish same soon. >>>>> As far as I could make out building commenced circa 1205, completed >> circa >>>>> 1209 the Castle was standing and is referred to in the 1209 >>>>> Charter sanctioned by King John (1199 - 1216 - for whom John Street >> in >>>>> Carlow was named ) with first Seneschal officially appointed in 1210 >> In >>>>> 2009 I suggested celebration of 800 years.....!...nice try...... >>>>> >>>>> On 14 September 2012 16:12, Turtle Bunbury <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know of any verifiable documents or sources that can >> confirm >>>>>> whether Carlow Castle was actually completed in 1213, which would >> be 800 >>>>>> years next year? >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
why would any Irish man want to celebrate the commencement of 800 years of conquest and tyranny by the british in Ireland ? the castle was built to defend the british garrison against the Irish, while they took the land from the Irish. On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Tom LaPorte <[email protected]> wrote: > I have to agree with your disagreement with me. Michael Brennan is indeed > the spark without which we would have no forum much less one of the best > online. I did say that Turtle was only one of our many sources of wisdom. > > I still put you at the peak but for that lofty position I also credit you > with the possession, protection, preservation and now publication of the > PPP. A goldmine of information which we are now tapping thanks to you! > > Happy belated 800th birthday Catherlogh! Being late is no excuse to not > have a party! > > Tom > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2012-09-19, at 15:55, "michael purcell" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > thanks Tom but I can't say I agree with you......there are many who have > > contributed articles, photos, maps, family trees, extracts from baptism / > > marriage registers, newspaper reports and all matters of exchanges, views > > and news to this site (including yourgoodself ) and as a member of the > > long established and respected Carlow family, the McClintock-Bunburys, it > > is great having Turtle on board but much of our appreciation has to be > > directed to Michael Brennan for his dedication and administration skills. > > As regards Carlow Castle and not intending to rain on anyone's parade I > > guess it could be said on reflection by present-day historians the > > castle was "officially" opened in 1213...!!..---- it just bothers me a > > little that data on Wikipedia and other internet sites was changed > recently > > to make it appear that the castle was completed circa1213 as if to > > accommodate a celebration in 2013 ?. ----- ... > > .I have checked my notes, the first Seneschal of Carlow Castle, Geoffry > > Fitz-Robert, was appointed in 1207 .....Extract of one reference to the > > castle from the Charter, granted in 1208 to the Burgess of Catherlagh by > > William Earl Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, states "That no Burgess shall > be > > drawn into any suit, or answer any plea which shall arise within the > bounds > > of the Borough, in the castle, or elsewhere, than in the hundred court of > > the town; except pleas which concern the men of my castle or my bailiffs; > > but it shall be held in the hundred court of the town".....the Charter > was > > witnessed by John Marshall, Thomas Fitz-Winton, (Seneschal of Leinster), > > Falk Fitz-Warine, Walter Purcell, William Grasse, Junior, Hamond Grasse, > > Roger Hyde, Rudolph de Ralegh, Robert de Crupt, Masters Henry, Hugh, > Ralph > > and Robert, clerks, and many other assembled Burgesses and bailiffs. > > > > On 17 September 2012 14:06, Tom LaPorte <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> Sure, "just primary school stuff", I guess lots of primary school > >> students "have researched data on Carlow Castle for many years, delving > >> into records at the Tower of London,the British Record Office, National > >> Archives at Kew and various private collections in England". That's > >> probably in the standard primary school curriculum over there. Must be > >> expensive to send all those kids to England though. > >> We are very fortunate to have many sources of wisdom (meticulously > >> researched knowledge) on this site, Turtle is another of them, but > Michael > >> is right at the top and I also bow to Michael's knowledge and his value > to > >> this forum. > >> In the meantime I was going through all my medieval notes on Carlow and > >> finding very little and can now add these little details. Thank you > once > >> again Michael. > >> Tom > >> > >>> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:28:35 +0100 > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] CARLOW CASTLE > >>> > >>> thanks Turtle but "abundant wisdom" is a bit over the top.....really > just > >>> primary school stuff....... > >>> > >>> On 17 September 2012 11:05, Turtle Bunbury (History) < > >>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Dear Michael, > >>>> That is precisely why the county is so lucky to have you and your > >> abundant > >>>> wisdom. I was informed last week of gathering momentum for a big > >>>> celebratory do for 'Carlow 800' which was to be based around the > >>>> Wikipedia-dated completion of the castle to 1213. > >>>> However, I think that your conclusions that this would, in fact, be > the > >>>> 'Carlow 803' will put paid to such a plan - and in good time too. > >> There > >>>> will be other excuses for a party but yes, it would be improper to > >> distort > >>>> such dates. > >>>> Many thanks, > >>>> Turtle > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Turtle Bunbury > >>>> > >>>> www.turtlebunbury.com > >>>> > >>>> Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > >>>> Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 > >> Skype: > >>>> turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury > >>>> > >>>> On 16 Sep 2012, at 19:50, michael purcell wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> no idea what would give you that idea !.....I have researched data on > >>>>> Carlow Castle for many years, delving into records at the Tower of > >>>> London, > >>>>> British Record Office, National Archives at Kew and various private > >>>>> collections in England, hope to publish same soon. > >>>>> As far as I could make out building commenced circa 1205, completed > >> circa > >>>>> 1209 the Castle was standing and is referred to in the 1209 > >>>>> Charter sanctioned by King John (1199 - 1216 - for whom John Street > >> in > >>>>> Carlow was named ) with first Seneschal officially appointed in 1210 > >> In > >>>>> 2009 I suggested celebration of 800 years.....!...nice try...... > >>>>> > >>>>> On 14 September 2012 16:12, Turtle Bunbury <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Does anyone know of any verifiable documents or sources that can > >> confirm > >>>>>> whether Carlow Castle was actually completed in 1213, which would > >> be 800 > >>>>>> years next year? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the > >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >