I guess Mr Gorman made enemies fairly fast. it could have been any side that knocked him from his horse and beat him ?, "No Faith to be kept with Heretics" that was deep. I agree with Turtle, a brilliant saga, you are giving us a great insight into local politics in the 1830s. > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:08:38 +0100 > From: carlowmike@gmail.com > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Edward Gorman. > > the Carlow Sentinel 1836 "heretics" of course being the Roman > Catholics, who were ruled by 'the ungovernable ruffians who supported Mr > Thomas C. Bunbury', in 1835, what a twist !. > Back then a year was a long time in politics. > In a further twist, that musta stung, they used the term "Faith not kept > with Heretics" aimed at the voting catholics in Carlow, it was first > introduced during the Crusades and reinforced by the Roman Catholic > Church as dogma during several church Councils dating back to 1167 !. > > On 27 June 2013 17:21, Turtle Bunbury (History) <turtlehistory@gmail.com>wrote: > > > What a brilliant and ever-thickening plot! > > > > > > > > Turtle Bunbury > > www.turtlebunbury.com > > www.facebook.com/Wistorical > > www.amazon.com/Turtle-Bunbury/e/B001ITXQEY > > > > Listen to Turtle's Hidden Histories on Newstalk every Tuesday morning at > > 9:45am. > > > > Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > > Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 Skype: > > turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Jun 2013, at 16:42, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > > > In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for Coroner, > > > Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr Kavanagh and > > > the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went > > forward > > > for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to give > > > him his support. > > > The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 > > which > > > reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go > > unpunished". > > > Carlow Sentinel. > > > June 1836. > > > SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. > > > Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the > > > Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help elect Mr > > > Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental > > > qualifications are concerned. > > > Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it went in > > Mr > > > Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote for > > Mr > > > Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. > > > Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his house, > > and > > > never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, Mr > > > Kavanagh. > > > How true it is that in all the relations of life -- > > > "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" > > > This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be found > > on > > > the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary > > warning > > > to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow > > > favours.-- > > > Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and shamefully > > > neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future he > > > will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for support. He > > > can expect none from any other quarter. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his > > >> election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and > > beaten" > > >> you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was > > >> attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, > > >> Ron. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

"Faith not kept with Heretics" ranks as church dogma alongside "Mental Reservation", the ability to tell an untruth that may not regarded as a lie" ( practiced in recent times by Cardinal Desmond Connell in a radio interview ) and Swearing an Oath on a Protestant Bible is not binding or regarded as perjury ( as advised by Father James Maher in the 1830s ), " Faith not kept with Heretics" could be interpreted as giving your word of honour to an infidel, heretic or unbeliever and not having to keep it ( this was used in the1930s in a dispute with Browne-Clayton of Browne's Hill , when a priest gave an undertaking that land donated for free and in good faith by Browne-Clayton would be used for a school, the land was later sold, the priest claimed that he did not have to keep faith with a non-Catholic. ) On 27 June 2013 18:26, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > I guess Mr Gorman made enemies fairly fast. it could have been any side > that knocked him from his horse and beat him ?, > "No Faith to be kept with Heretics" that was deep. > I agree with Turtle, a brilliant saga, you are giving us a great insight > into local politics in the 1830s. > > > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:08:38 +0100 > > From: carlowmike@gmail.com > > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Edward Gorman. > > > > the Carlow Sentinel 1836 "heretics" of course being the Roman > > Catholics, who were ruled by 'the ungovernable ruffians who supported Mr > > Thomas C. Bunbury', in 1835, what a twist !. > > Back then a year was a long time in politics. > > In a further twist, that musta stung, they used the term "Faith not kept > > with Heretics" aimed at the voting catholics in Carlow, it was first > > introduced during the Crusades and reinforced by the Roman Catholic > > Church as dogma during several church Councils dating back to 1167 !. > > > > On 27 June 2013 17:21, Turtle Bunbury (History) <turtlehistory@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > > > What a brilliant and ever-thickening plot! > > > > > > > > > > > > Turtle Bunbury > > > www.turtlebunbury.com > > > www.facebook.com/Wistorical > > > www.amazon.com/Turtle-Bunbury/e/B001ITXQEY > > > > > > Listen to Turtle's Hidden Histories on Newstalk every Tuesday morning > at > > > 9:45am. > > > > > > Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > > > Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 > Skype: > > > turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Jun 2013, at 16:42, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > > > > > In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for > Coroner, > > > > Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr > Kavanagh and > > > > the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went > > > forward > > > > for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to > give > > > > him his support. > > > > The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 > > > which > > > > reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go > > > unpunished". > > > > Carlow Sentinel. > > > > June 1836. > > > > SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. > > > > Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the > > > > Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help > elect Mr > > > > Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental > > > > qualifications are concerned. > > > > Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it > went in > > > Mr > > > > Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote > for > > > Mr > > > > Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. > > > > Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his > house, > > > and > > > > never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, > Mr > > > > Kavanagh. > > > > How true it is that in all the relations of life -- > > > > "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" > > > > This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be > found > > > on > > > > the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary > > > warning > > > > to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow > > > > favours.-- > > > > Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and > shamefully > > > > neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future > he > > > > will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for > support. He > > > > can expect none from any other quarter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his > > > >> election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and > > > beaten" > > > >> you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was > > > >> attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, > > > >> Ron. > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >