Hi Mick Okay, so the argument for the castle not being Crown Lands is that it was ceded to King Edward I personally (1300's) and to his sole heirs and not to 'The Crown'. Much later King James I (1604) still retained title to the castle and land and retained ownership for himself and his successors. Wouldn't the distinction that the land they held personally would not be considered Crown Land actually have stopped the castle from being legally transferred from the Plantagenets through the Houses of Lancaster, York and Tudor and then to the Stuarts? If it was not retained by Edward I's sole heirs or someone's sole heirs along that line that implies ownership by The Crown rather than by the man. If the Castle was vested in the "King's name and leased to others by his Royal successors thereafter" that is a pretty good definition of what Crown Lands are. Various definitions online: "Crown Lands in Canada: The majority of all lands in Canada are held by governments in the name of the monarch and are called Crown Lands." "crown land n. 1. Land that belongs to the crown and yields its revenues to the reigning monarch." "crown land noun 1. land belonging to the crown, the revenue of which goes to the reigning sovereign." James reserved ownership of the Castle for himself and his "successors". After James I and up until George I a case could be made for land following the successors but George I only inherited the Crown as he was the closest descendant of the Stuart line who was not Catholic. Meanwhile Catholic's were happily inheriting privately held land as long as they swore fealty to the Crown and didn't practice their religion, they just couldn't be king. Lots of Stuart's retained their land and continued to inherit their land. So the line of succession and the line of inheritance were made two different things. After Anne died as the last Stuart Queen, you would have to go back up the Stuart family tree 4 generations and then back down 3 in another branch to get to George I. Land entitlement wouldn't have bypassed that many male heirs without claims being made. If ownership of the Castle was in fact retained by George I it must have been considered to be Crown Land and should have been redistributed. Alternatively, it is possibly now held 'technically' by some Stuart descendant????? I think the Carlow authority is putting up a smokescreen. The last time I saw the castle it seemed to be beautifully maintained though and there were information signs about its history or didn't I look close enough? Tom > Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:20:17 +0100 > From: carlowmike@gmail.com > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Ownership of Carlow Castle > > Thanks Tom , good observation but in the 1979 a group of us approached the > then Carlow County Manager regarding maintenance of and accessibility to > the Castle, we were informed that the Office of Public Works were the > custodians of the Castle and grounds but ownership was in doubt as it had > not been considered Crown lands as it had been since 1306 vested in the > King's name and leased to others by his Royal successors thereafter. > This explanation may have been a ploy by the local authority or the Board > of Works to avoid confrontation with Corcoran's Mineral Works who at the > time controlled access and had in the past erected a greenhouse and planted > vegetables on the grounds and possibly also to avoid responsibility. > Regardless of this Carlow County Heritage Society undertook a major > clean-up of the grounds in 1990, during which we removed 7 large skip loads > of rubbish from the castle grounds. > I am at present trying to track down deeds etc. > The following is extract from my work in progress on Carlow Castle - > > *Shortly before his death in December 1306, the 58 year old Roger le > Bigodhad appointed King Edward 1 as sole heir to all his > * > > * “honours, titles, estates, castles, manors, boroughs, lands, goods and > chattels” * > > *which included, * > > *“The Manor, Castle and borough of Catherlach, with all their appurtenances; > * > > *and the Body of the County with assizes and perquisites”. * > > *This proved to be a fortunate turn of events for future historians because > as soon as the King acquired the Manor and Castle all the Rolls, Court > Records, Writs, Accounts and other material compiled by the Seneschal, > Treasurer, Constable, sheriffs, bailiffs, reeves, receivers and lesser > clerks were transferred to the Tower of London where the originals were > preserved. I believe the archives were transferred to the National Archives > at Kew. * > > *We know that in 1604 King James handed over the remainder of his Carlow > property to Donough O'Brien but the King reserved ownership of the Castle > for himself and his "successors" ?.* >m with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message