Wikipedia aside ---------you know the story, ( I did say at the outset of this "newspaper extracts" series that it was complicated !) -- the Black and Tans were British ex-servicemen recruited in 1920 to the Royal Irish Constabulary --- with not enough uniforms for the extra 10,000 ,or so, members wore a mixture of black and tan...many of them later wore R.I.C. uniforms when they became available...I have never seen "official figures" to agree for the number of deaths in the Black and Tans ..probably they were combined with the approx. 500 deaths in the R.I.C. during 1919--1923. (several were killed during The Truce) ?. The Auxiliaries numbered about 2,000 ex- British army officers, recruited as support force to the R.I.C. among their causalities were the 15 killed in the Kilmichael Ambush on 28th Nov. 1920. by Tom Barry's West Cork Flying Column ( "Up West Cork" joined "Up Dev" as a rallying cry for the I.R.A.). >From January 1919 to June 1921 the estimated death toll during the War of Independence ( compiled by the I.R.B. ) was ----- 400 Policemen ; ( did this figure include " Black and Tans" and "Auxies "? ) ---156 British military ; with estimated figure of 700 members of the I.R.A. combined with civilians. ( note : the figures only cover period to June 1921 ). During my lifetime I have spoken to several historians, seen original records and read a dozen books on the subject but none of them agree on a figure for causalities from January 1919 to July 1922 or up to the ending of the Civil War in April 1923 ?. Perhaps Turtle, you might, sometime in the future, make it one of your projects to research this inconsistency ?. There must be reliable figures stored somewhere. On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Turtle Bunbury <turtle@turtlebunbury.com>wrote: > Thanks Mick, > > Any idea how many Black and Tans were killed in the war? > > Wikipedia gives the following casualties: > > IRA - 550 dead > > British - 714 dead, including 410 RIC, 261 British Army and 43 USC > (Ulster Special Constabulary). > > A further 750 civilians are also said to have died. > > Best, > > TB > > > > On 26 Mar 2010, at 17:30, michael purcell wrote: > > > Irish War of Independence Jan. 1919 -- July 1922. > > In an earlier reference I confused dates for the forming of the > > Black and > > Tans and the Police Auxiliary Cadets ( Auxies). > > The following notes are extracted from the PPP. ( "Irish Republican > > Brotherhood Recollections" recorded in a copy book and uncovered by > > Jean > > Casey recently.) > > "The Black and Tans were formed in December 1919 when British ex- > > soldiers > > and sailors were recruited as a support force for the Royal Irish > > Constabulary. Their wage was 10 shillings per day and cigarettes. The > > "Tans" arrived in Ireland on the 25th March 1920 ( many of the > > participants > > in the struggle for independence would refer to the period following > > their > > arrival as "the Tan war"). > > The Auxiliaries were formed in June 1920, those who joined were > > demobilized officers of the British army. They arrived in Ireland in > > July > > 1920. Their wage was £1.00 a day. The "Auxies" were not under military > > discipline and they soon gained a reputation for brutality and > > ruthlessness. > > A distinctive feature of their dress was that they wore a belt with > > two > > holsters each containing a revolver. > > The term "Black and Tans" was often applied by the Irish to the > > Auxiliaries > > and also to British-born constables in the R.I.C. and sometimes even > > to the > > soldiers in the regular British army." > > ======================================= > > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > > --------------------------------------- > > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. > > No additional text is required. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >