yes I have that...405 is the general figure mentioned...will check it out....I wrote "in the months following "Tatlers" comment over a hundred R.I.C.policemen were killed " by way of pointing out that his plea had been ignored...... On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Turtle Bunbury <turtle@turtlebunbury.com>wrote: > Richard Abbott's "Police Casualties in Ireland" lists 493 RIC officers > killed between the start of the Troubles in 1919 and disbandment in > 1922. I'm told that perhaps another 100-ish also died as a result of > accidents or non-political killings in that period. > > > On 13 Mar 2010, at 16:38, michael purcell wrote: > > > [ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- On the 21st January 1919, a > > group > > of nine masked Irish Volunteers ( by this time the Irish Volunteers > > were > > increasingly referred to as the Irish Republican Army ) ambushed > > a party > > of armed Royal Irish Constabulary escorting a cart load of gelignite > > (used > > for quarrying) at Soloheadbeg in Tipperary, two R.I.C. policemen > > were killed > > in the exchange of gunfire. This incident is regarded as the > > commencement of > > the Irish "War of Independence" (Anglo-Irish War). > > In November of that year a Carlow man serving in the R.I.C. was > > killed. The > > following is the report from the Nationalist and Leinster Times. > > This report is followed by a comment from Nationalist correspondent > > "Tatler". > > Nationalist 8th November 1919. > > Carlow Policeman Killed. > > On Friday of last week the R.I.C. Barracks in Ballivar, County > > Meath, was > > attacked by a number of masked men and a quantity of arms taken. The > > police > > defended, but the raid was short, sharp and decisive. The Sergeant was > > wounded, and one of the police, Constable W. Agar, was shot dead. > > Constable Agar belongs to a family well-known in Carlow. His father > > was > > evicted from a farm at Coolnakisha near the Kilkenny-Carlow border > > during > > the land war, and the family came to live in the town of Carlow. The > > dead > > constable was for a long time in the employment of Mr. E. Boake, > > Tullow > > Street, and was very popular. He joined the R.I.C. about 12 years > > ago. When > > the evicted tenants were being restored Mr. Agar, the deceased's > > father was > > given a farm near Rathvilly. Since then he has purchased a larger > > holding. > > On Monday the remains were conveyed by R.I.C. motor hearse to > > Rathvilly, and > > were met by a large number of County Carlow constabulary and > > contingents > > from the neighbouring districts of Wicklow and Kildare. The > > interment took > > place on Tuesday and the funeral was large. > > Amongst the chief mourners were the dead constable's three brothers. > > Mr. > > Townsend, District Inspector and Mr. J.C.Ryan, Resident Magistrate > > were also > > in attendance. Rev. Mr. O'Callaghan officiated at the graveside. > > NOTES BY TATLER. > > The fatal shooting of the R.I.C. Constable in Ballivar, is an act > > that no > > honest or moral Irishman can condone. Condonation of such a crime > > would be > > even worse than active participation because--so far as the vast > > majority of > > the Irish people are concerned-- there must be no condoning, Like a > > lie no > > deliberate killing --outside war--can be lawful, and so far as > > County Meath > > is concerned --there has been no war. I hold my own opinions about > > such > > incidents, but I am most interested in the Commandment --"Thou shalt > > not > > kill". That law is eternal, and the consequences must also be eternal. > > Slaughter either in war or rebellion is one thing altogether. Unless > > the > > Irish people want to scrap the decalogue altogether, they cannot > > condone > > murder. > > I hold terribly strong views on those incidents. I hold that whoever > > is > > perpetrating them have lost the moral sense and are not worthy > > members of > > the community. The Royal Irish Constabulary belong to the flesh and > > blood of > > the Irish nation --rightly or wrongly-- and it must be remembered that > > nine-tenths of the force joined the police before the mushroom > > Nationalists > > began to realise that there was ever such a thing as Irish > > nationality. > > [ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- In the months following > > "Tatlers" > > comment over 100 R.I.C. policemen were killed. Because the R.I.C. > > were an > > armed force the I.R.A. considered them an legitimate target for > > attack. In > > September 1919 the British government had reacted to this by sending > > over a > > police reserve made up of British ex-service men to support the > > R.I.C. they > > were known as "Auxiliaries". In January 1920 another force was > > recruited > > throughout Britain for service in Ireland, they became known as "The > > Black > > and Tans". From that point on a bloody guerrilla war commenced in > > which > > there were "no rules" . > > On 19 June 1920 Lieut-Col. Smyth, D.S.O. and Bar, made a speech to > > the > > ranks of the Royal Irish Constabulary in which he stated: > > *"Now, men, Sinn Fein have had all the sport up to the present, and > > we are > > going to have the sport now. The police are not in sufficient > > strength to do > > anything to hold their barracks. This is not enough for as long as > > we remain > > on the defensive, so long will Sinn Fein have the whip hand. We must > > take > > the offensive and beat Sinn Fein at its own tactics...If a police > > barracks > > is burned or if the barracks already occupied is not suitable, then > > the best > > house in the locality is to be commandeered, the occupants thrown > > into the > > gutter. Let them die there—the more the merrier. Should the order > > "Hands Up" > > not be immediately obeyed, shoot and shoot with effect. If the persons > > approaching a patrol carry their hands in their pockets, or are in > > any way > > suspicious looking, shoot them down. You may make mistakes > > occasionally and > > innocent persons may be shot, but that cannot be helped, and you are > > bound > > to get the right parties some time. The more you shoot, the better I > > will > > like you, and I assure you no policeman will get into trouble for > > shooting > > any man".* > > Many R.I.C. men resigned from the force in protest at this speech, > > some of > > them later joined the Irish Republican Army. Four weeks after making > > this > > speech Lieut-Col. Smyth was shot dead by the I.R.A. in the Smoking > > Room of > > the Cork and Country Club. > > ======================================= > > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > > subscribe to the List. 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