A short article on Painstown: http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Painstown.htm Regards Michael Brennan Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm

Hi all! I have often wondered about the derivation of the placename "Painstown" and, in the writeup referenced below ( http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Painstown.htm ) I read: "It is probably derived ... from one of the persons named Paganus who were connected with the district early in the 13th century. The modern form is, of course, Payne." I have no proof yet but I believe that the 13th century person named "Paganus" mentioned above may have been related to "Hughes de Payens" the founder of the Knights Templar. Based upon a knowledge of French, old and new, and Latin it is not difficult to make the link between the family name of the founder of the Templars "Hughes de Payens" and "Paganus". (1) "Payen" is old French for the modern day French word "païn" which means pagan. (2) The Latin rendering for the French word "Païn" is "Paganus". (3) It is therefore likely that "Paganus", in 13th century Carlow records, is nothing more than a Latin cleric`s rendering of the Norman French word "Payen". (4) "Paine" is likely the English rendering of the modern day French word "païen". Supporting a possible connection to the Templars in the 13th century is the fact that "William the Marshall", the one-time regent of England (circa 1215 and at signing of Magna Carta), husband of Isobel de Clare (Strongbow's daughter by Aoife Kavanagh), was a strong supporter of the Templars and held lands in Co. Carlow. During his lifetime the Templar castle at Ballymoon (Co. Carlow) was built and, on his deathbed, William made his vows as a Templar, dressed appropriatedly with the Templar robe which he had long held in storage. The 13th century was a time when political allegiances changed and were tested. Indeed, in 1204, Normandy, the land which had given birth to William the Conqueror and been the training ground for "William the Marshall" at Tancarville, Normandy, was absorbed into the growing kingdom of France, Based upon succeeding history, it would appear that during this time certain families of Norman descent in Ireland (including the De Lacy family) switched allegiance to France. Descendants of William the Marshall in Ireland may also have been in this number. In particular, it is known that, in 1297, Roger Bigod, Lord of Carlow and grandson of William the Marshall, albeit threatened with hanging, defied the then king of England, Edward I, when ordered to serve against the king of France in Gascony. His words were ""[By God], O king, I will neither go nor hang" and so it was. Issues of allegiance came to a head in the 14th century. In the early 1300s the Templar movement founded in France was discredited and it lost any influence it might have exercised in Ireland. Also, the spirit of cultural tolerance which had prevailed in Ireland in the early days was gone. Many of the English settlers were no longer tolerant of the "incursions of the Irish" into their towns, of Irish ways and customs. In the wake of the success of Robert the Bruce in Scotland, the native Irish kings in consort with some of the Norman families (including the De Lacys) attempted to reclaim lost territories and assert Irish rule but were unsuccessful. By the mid to late 1300s the English Crown saw fit to annul all previous land grants and to issue new grants in their place. In my opinion, this process of forfeiture and regrant essentially marked the end of a long-standing "sacred trust" which had been established in good faith between the Irish Chiefs and the "Norman" Lords. In 1169, détente between participants in the Crusades (NOTE: The Irish were then known as "scots") was at a peak and, post 1169, many of the Irish kings became lords under the Norman system of law but, by the late 1300s, the process of forfeiture and regrant, had put an end to the old Norman order established in 1169. To summarize, I believe that "Painstown", in the distant past, may have had a Templar connection. I also believe that much Templar history has yet to be uncovered in Ireland. Regards, Roger Nowlan (http://nolanfamilies.org ) P.S. Here is a short write-up on the founding of the Knights Templar movement in the early 12th century taken from an article which I wrote in the last Nolan Clan Newsletter: "After the first Crusade, Jerusalem having been secured, in 1118/1119, Hughes de Payens and eight other knights, took vows of obedience to the Patriarch of Jerusalem, resolving to "live in holy poverty and chastity, and to devote themselves to the care and protection of Christian pilgrims". Initially the number of Templar knights was small but, by 1129, largely due to the efforts of the Cistercian monk Bernard de Clairvaux, this devoted group of knights had grown in number and obtained from the Pope its own rule as a religious order." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Brennan" <mjbrennan@blueyonder.co.uk> To: "Irl-Carlow" <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 7:55 PM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Painstown >A short article on Painstown: http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Painstown.htm > > > Regards > > Michael Brennan > > Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ > My Laois Page: > http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm > > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. 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