Multiple thank yous Roger for all your works and for those of you who have tried to help me here. I shall surely research the Victoria areas but as Pat Zipf said recently Victoria might have referred to the Queen as the particular question on the Naturalization form gives two choices: place of birth or allegiance. Having researched some individuals asking for citizenship from New York I have come across numerous ones that refer to their loyalty to the Queen.........not the area from which they came. This is certainly less helpful to those of us researching today. Again my many thanks to you all for your invaluable assistance and brain sp arking!! Dee In a message dated 1/30/2010 11:44:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rnowlan@primus.ca writes: Tom, Thank you for picking up on BC versus CB. I guess I was too tired yesterday to pick up on it. However, it did literally "come to me in my sleep" and you beat me to it :-)) I checked on Wikipedia when British Columbia was first formed as a colony. It was only in 1858 but without Vancouver Island which was only added in 1866. So, someone born in Victoria (on Vancouver Island) circa 1835 and entered the US before 1860 (when Thomas first appears on the New Hamphire census) would have rightfully stated that he came from Victoria (originally a British fort location). Now I have to come back to the issue of the meaning of CB. I checked neighbouring pages of the 1851 census to see if CB also appeared on neighbouring pages. It does! In profusion! It therefore appears that the 1851 census taker, although French speaking (Descelles), used CB to mean "Canada Bas" as you first suggested. It may have been the popular way of saying it at the time. Language does evolve over time. To summarize, it looks as if the Montreal Shiells family in 1851 is another family, not Dee's (but possibly related!). Nonetheless, in the meantime, I believe that the issue of "Victoria" as a place of origin has been resolved. I suggest that Dee take a look at the history page for British Columbia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_Columbia ) to perhaps get further ideas to pursue her research. I don't know what Victoria/ Fort Victoria was like in 1835 when Thomas was born and that would be something to research further. Bye for now, Roger ******************** http://nolanfamilies.org ******************** ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dee, If Victoria referred to Thomas' allegiance then he could still be the "Thomas Shiells" on the 1851 Montreal, St. Laurent census, aged 15. I note that on the 1851 census the parents are given as: James Shiells, trader, b. Scotland, Presbyterian Anne Boa, b. Scotland In one of your earlier Emails you state that your Thomas' parents were: Roger and Anna Shiels. A possible scenario would be that James, the trader, with a large household and servant in 1851 hit upon hard times (e.g. loss of a ship at sea in which he had invested) and changed his name to escape detection by his creditors. Conjecture to be sure but nonetheless plausible! I will leave you to dig deeper if you so choose. A hint that the above scenario might be the case is the fact that the name of the mother in both cases is Anne/Anna. Best of luck! Roger ******************* http://nolanfamilies.org ******************* ----- Original Message ----- From: <MacShea95@aol.com> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] THOMAS SHIELS of Victoria, BC > Multiple thank yous Roger for all your works and for those of you who > have > tried to help me here. > > I shall surely research the Victoria areas but as Pat Zipf said recently > Victoria might have referred to the Queen as the particular question on > the > Naturalization form gives two choices: place of birth or allegiance. > Having researched some individuals asking for citizenship from New York I > have > come across numerous ones that refer to their loyalty to the > Queen.........not the area from which they came. This is certainly less > helpful to those > of us researching today. > > Again my many thanks to you all for your invaluable assistance and brain > sp > arking!! > > Dee > > > In a message dated 1/30/2010 11:44:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rnowlan@primus.ca writes: > > Tom, > Thank you for picking up on BC versus CB. > I guess I was too tired yesterday to pick up on it. > However, it did literally "come to me in my sleep" and you beat me to it > :-)) > > I checked on Wikipedia when British Columbia was first formed as a > colony. > It was only in 1858 but without Vancouver Island which was only added in > 1866. > So, someone born in Victoria (on Vancouver Island) circa 1835 and entered > the US before 1860 (when Thomas first appears on the New Hamphire census) > would have rightfully stated that he came from Victoria (originally a > British fort location). > > Now I have to come back to the issue of the meaning of CB. I checked > neighbouring pages of the 1851 census to see if CB also appeared on > neighbouring pages. It does! In profusion! It therefore appears that the > 1851 census taker, although French speaking (Descelles), used CB to mean > "Canada Bas" as you first suggested. It may have been the popular way of > saying it at the time. Language does evolve over time. > > To summarize, it looks as if the Montreal Shiells family in 1851 is > another > family, not Dee's (but possibly related!). > Nonetheless, in the meantime, I believe that the issue of "Victoria" as a > place of origin has been resolved. > > I suggest that Dee take a look at the history page for British Columbia > ( > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_Columbia ) to perhaps get > further ideas to pursue her research. I don't know what Victoria/ Fort > Victoria was like in 1835 when Thomas was born and that would be something > to research further. > > Bye for now, > Roger > > ******************** > http://nolanfamilies.org > ******************** > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the > Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >