Tom, Thank you for your input. In French, Upper Canada (Ontario) and Lower Canada (Quebec) become "Haut Canada" and "Bas Canada" so BC would indeed be right. Roger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom LaPorte" <tlaporte@mts.net> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victiria - "Thomas SHIELLS" aged 15 in 1851in Montreal > No, not "Colonies Britanniques". In 1851 Canada was divided into two > areas, > Upper Canada and Lower Canada. In French that was Canada Haute and Canada > Bas. So CB stood for Canada Bas or Quebec. > > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roger Nowlan > Sent: 29 January 2010 13:56 > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victiria - "Thomas SHIELLS" aged 15 in 1851 in > Montreal > > Dee, > > I had an afterthought about Victoria and it possibly relating to > Victoriaville, Quebec, which is between Quebec city and the New Hampshire > border. I therefore looked for Shiels in the 1851 census and found the > following family living in Montreal county, St. Laurent. I believe this to > be the St. Laurent district of modern-day Montreal. > > The main train station in Montreal at the time was the "Victoria Station" > so > > this could also be the "Victoria" meant on the immigration form. > > 1851 Census - Montreal county, St. Laurent > ---------------------------------------------------- > James Shiells 45, trader, Scotland, Presbyterian > Agnes Boa, 37, b. Scotland > Janet, 17, b. CB > Thomas, 15, b. CB > [RN: The census form is filled out in French; > I take "CB" to mean "Colonies Britanniques", essentially anywhere in the > British Colonies] > Jane, 13, b. CB > Ann, 11, b. CB > Elizabeth, 9, b. CB > Euphemia, 7, b. CB > Robert, 5, b. CB > James, 2, b. CB > Robert Smithe, servant, 18, b. CB > > Regards, > Roger > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MacShea95@aol.com> > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:33 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victoria > > >> Thank you Mary. He originally appears in the Census in New Hampshire. He >> eventually moves to Boston. >> >> >> >> In a message dated 1/28/2010 10:31:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> maryfr14@comcast.net writes: >> >> >> >> Like Roger, I also thought of Canada, but the other side. I was >> thinking >> of Victoria BC. (Which is very close to Seattle.) If your ancestor >> came >> to the US via Canada I guess which of these Victoria's would depend on >> where >> he settled in the US - East or West. >> >> >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Roger Nowlan" <rnowlan@primus.ca> >> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:21:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victoria >> >> Dee, >> >> Could your ancestor have come to the US from Ireleand via Canada, from >> New >> Brunswick (my home province) to be exact. >> If I recall correctly there were disbanded soldiers who were given land >> in >> Victoria county, New Brunswick. If I also recall correctly there also >> even >> villages named Carlow and Wicklow in the area. >> >> Just a thought! >> >> Roger Nowlan >> >> ********************* >> http://nolanfamilies.org >> ********************* >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <MacShea95@aol.com> >> To: <IRL-CARLOW@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:01 PM >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Victoria >> >> >>> Since this is the list with the most gifted members I am going to put >> out >>> another query. My relative Thomas Shields/Shiels (of which there are >> some >>> in Carlow) put on his application for citizenship in America that he >>> was >>> from "Victoria". Does this ring a bell with anyone? >>> >>> Many thanks! >>> >>> Dee >>> ======================================= >>> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >>> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >>> --------------------------------------- >>> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >>> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >>> quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the >> Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the >> Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Absolutely right Roger. Thinking about this a bit more, CB would stand for Colombie-Britannique which is British Columbia in English. I just looked up the official list of abbreviations used in the 1851 Census on the Canadian Archives site: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-911.005-e.html So Victoria is the most obvious Canadian one as Mary thought: it's Victoria, B.C. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roger Nowlan Sent: 29 January 2010 22:41 To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victiria - "Thomas SHIELLS" aged 15 in 1851in Montreal Tom, Thank you for your input. In French, Upper Canada (Ontario) and Lower Canada (Quebec) become "Haut Canada" and "Bas Canada" so BC would indeed be right. Roger ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom LaPorte" <tlaporte@mts.net> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victiria - "Thomas SHIELLS" aged 15 in 1851in Montreal > No, not "Colonies Britanniques". In 1851 Canada was divided into two > areas, > Upper Canada and Lower Canada. In French that was Canada Haute and Canada > Bas. So CB stood for Canada Bas or Quebec. > > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roger Nowlan > Sent: 29 January 2010 13:56 > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victiria - "Thomas SHIELLS" aged 15 in 1851 in > Montreal > > Dee, > > I had an afterthought about Victoria and it possibly relating to > Victoriaville, Quebec, which is between Quebec city and the New Hampshire > border. I therefore looked for Shiels in the 1851 census and found the > following family living in Montreal county, St. Laurent. I believe this to > be the St. Laurent district of modern-day Montreal. > > The main train station in Montreal at the time was the "Victoria Station" > so > > this could also be the "Victoria" meant on the immigration form. > > 1851 Census - Montreal county, St. Laurent > ---------------------------------------------------- > James Shiells 45, trader, Scotland, Presbyterian > Agnes Boa, 37, b. Scotland > Janet, 17, b. CB > Thomas, 15, b. CB > [RN: The census form is filled out in French; > I take "CB" to mean "Colonies Britanniques", essentially anywhere in the > British Colonies] > Jane, 13, b. CB > Ann, 11, b. CB > Elizabeth, 9, b. CB > Euphemia, 7, b. CB > Robert, 5, b. CB > James, 2, b. CB > Robert Smithe, servant, 18, b. CB > > Regards, > Roger > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MacShea95@aol.com> > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:33 PM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victoria > > >> Thank you Mary. He originally appears in the Census in New Hampshire. He >> eventually moves to Boston. >> >> >> >> In a message dated 1/28/2010 10:31:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> maryfr14@comcast.net writes: >> >> >> >> Like Roger, I also thought of Canada, but the other side. I was >> thinking >> of Victoria BC. (Which is very close to Seattle.) If your ancestor >> came >> to the US via Canada I guess which of these Victoria's would depend on >> where >> he settled in the US - East or West. >> >> >> >> Mary >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Roger Nowlan" <rnowlan@primus.ca> >> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:21:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Victoria >> >> Dee, >> >> Could your ancestor have come to the US from Ireleand via Canada, from >> New >> Brunswick (my home province) to be exact. >> If I recall correctly there were disbanded soldiers who were given land >> in >> Victoria county, New Brunswick. If I also recall correctly there also >> even >> villages named Carlow and Wicklow in the area. >> >> Just a thought! >> >> Roger Nowlan >> >> ********************* >> http://nolanfamilies.org >> ********************* >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <MacShea95@aol.com> >> To: <IRL-CARLOW@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:01 PM >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Victoria >> >> >>> Since this is the list with the most gifted members I am going to put >> out >>> another query. My relative Thomas Shields/Shiels (of which there are >> some >>> in Carlow) put on his application for citizenship in America that he >>> was >>> from "Victoria". Does this ring a bell with anyone? >>> >>> Many thanks! >>> >>> Dee >>> ======================================= >>> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >>> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >>> --------------------------------------- >>> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >>> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >>> quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the >> Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the >> Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject >> and the body of the message >> >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tom, Thank you for picking up on BC versus CB. I guess I was too tired yesterday to pick up on it. However, it did literally "come to me in my sleep" and you beat me to it :-)) I checked on Wikipedia when British Columbia was first formed as a colony. It was only in 1858 but without Vancouver Island which was only added in 1866. So, someone born in Victoria (on Vancouver Island) circa 1835 and entered the US before 1860 (when Thomas first appears on the New Hamphire census) would have rightfully stated that he came from Victoria (originally a British fort location). Now I have to come back to the issue of the meaning of CB. I checked neighbouring pages of the 1851 census to see if CB also appeared on neighbouring pages. It does! In profusion! It therefore appears that the 1851 census taker, although French speaking (Descelles), used CB to mean "Canada Bas" as you first suggested. It may have been the popular way of saying it at the time. Language does evolve over time. To summarize, it looks as if the Montreal Shiells family in 1851 is another family, not Dee's (but possibly related!). Nonetheless, in the meantime, I believe that the issue of "Victoria" as a place of origin has been resolved. I suggest that Dee take a look at the history page for British Columbia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_Columbia ) to perhaps get further ideas to pursue her research. I don't know what Victoria/ Fort Victoria was like in 1835 when Thomas was born and that would be something to research further. Bye for now, Roger ******************** http://nolanfamilies.org ********************