There are several hundred lists of Grand Jury members for Carlow in the PPP dating from the mid-18th century to late 19th century. Many times for the same person his title may vary on the lists, depending on the recording clerk...for instance one year Mr Bagenal is identified as "Gent" and the following year as "Esquire" another year he is described as Mr Bagenal, Esquire, Gent. I would have thought that "Esquire" would indicate that the person named was employed or of "Rank" whereas "Gent" might indicate that the person lived, somehow or another, on family investments / land / "old money" or whatever but did not have to work for a living. I have also noticed that in the case of Benjamin Bunbury who when acting as "Magistrate" has "Esquire" attached to his name but on the Voting or Jury Lists the same man is described as "Gent". Looks to me like one man's "Gent" was another man's "Esquire" Back in the 60s 70s I was the recipient of many letters addressing me as "Esquire" and all I had was a little huckster's shop (selling everything from the most varied selection of coloured sewing treads in Carlow to turnips (we also had a wine licence !). I had so little money that I knew if I did not work today I would have no money tomorrow, --nothings changed much on that score ..so much for Michael Purcell ,Esquire. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Susie Warren <ousie@people.net.au> wrote: > Hi Bill > > You may have read this before but just in case you haven't; > from 1818 & 1822 a description of Gentleman and Esquire > posted on my site. > > http://home.people.net.au/~ousie/esquires_&_gentlemen.htm > > I recall in the late '60's, that many of the graziers had the title Esq., > added to their names on the envelopes of their correspondence where > I worked. > > Susie > > > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:17:31 +1100 > > From: "Bill Webster" <wbwebster@internode.on.net> > > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Esq. and Gent. > > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > > Message-ID: <000301caa7b4$d9fda0f0$8df8e2d0$@on.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > The following is typical of entries to some government records I have > been > > inspecting: > > > > > > 1821 (477) (Ireland) Grand Jury Presentments, Dublin (pp. 43 - 44): > > > > "To L. Crosthwaite, P. Roe and R. Shaw, esqrs. and George Halpin, gent, > to > > repair 76 perches of road from Ringsend bridge to Artichoak road, between > > said bridge and Beggar's Bush road...?159 12 0." > > > > > > The "esquires" concerned were merchants of no particular family standing, > > wealthy, successful, on some company and banking boards and civic > > committees, undoubtedly property owners, possibly landlords. > > > > The "gentleman" was also well-to-do, largely self-made, a property owner > > and > > city landlord but also of a hands-on nature, the "Inspector" appointed by > > two civic corporations. > > > > All came from a background of education and industry, erudition and > > ambition. > > > > May I therefore revisit the old debate about the distinction between an > > esq(ire) and a gent(leman)? The best summation that I have found is at > > Wikipedia but even there the editors ask for the article to have more > > grounding and references. Even by the 1700s I think it was too archaic > to > > hark back to esquire deriving from the squires of knights, certainly by > > the > > 1800s. Knights had not had squires for 500 years. So, what did 1820s > > publications mean by such epithets? What was the implied distinction > > between an esquire and a gentleman? > > > > > > I have put this query to another list and there have been a number of > > replies but I thought I should put it to the learned subscribers here > too. > > > > Bill. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > To contact the IRL-CARLOW list administrator, send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > > To post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list, send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW@rootsweb.com. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > of the > > email with no additional text. > > > > > > End of IRL-CARLOW Digest, Vol 5, Issue 85 > > ***************************************** > > > > > > __________ NOD32 4841 (20100206) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > part000.txt - is OK > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. 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