Thanks Roger hope you find something. I would have spelt it that way myself just worte it the way it looked. Wonder if the Mooney's and Nolans knew each other before they went to Cananda. Gosh that was a good age in those days. Bye Germaine x Germaine, Thank you for clarifications. I will see if I can match up the record given below with anything I may have in my files. As regards the family name Moony, I believe that it is more generally spelled Mooney. I know of at least two Mooney-Nolan connections here in Canada, one was in the same area as where my ancestor settled in New Brunswick (Buctouche area) and the other one in Nova Scotia (Cape Breton). Bye for now, Roger ***** John Mooney m. Virginie Nowlan c. 1900 (Buctouche area) ++ Viginie, daughter of Martin, son of James Nowlan of Miramichi area (the latter James fought in the War of Independence and eventually settled in the Miramichi area dying around 1845 aged circa 105); this is not my own line but a branch lived in the same area as my line. Hi Roger Thanks for the interest. Oct. 24th 1870 Roman Catholic Chapel Carlow Thomas Cleary Bachelor 23 Dealer father Owen Cleary Dealer. Mary Anne Nolan Spinster 17 Domestic Servant father Peter Nolan Labourer Wit. Denis Nolan Eliza Moony ? Her surname hard to read but looks very much like Moony. No They are definatley the parents to my Grandmother Sarah. I have her birth cert too so am 100% I did think what a strange coincedence when I saw those names. Yes my name is French but came from a lady in Belguim. During the war a couple were very kind to my Dad and kept in touch with him. When they were told my Mum was expecting they were asked if they would call the baby after one of them. If I had been a boy I would have been Emile ? oh dear can't even spell it. Perhaps you are right and she liked the name because it was French and she felt it was a connection to her ancestors. I know one thing it was heaven help anyone that tried to shorten it :-) Germaine x Germaine, Thank you for your Email. The Nolan first names "Peter" and "Denis" certainly are of interest to me as I keep coming across them in my own family research. To help me look for any possible connectionss I would appreciate getting the particulars (time, place, names) on the marriage certificate you mention in your earlier Email saying "on Mary and Thomas marriage cert one witness is a Denis Nolan". Knowing the timeframe and location may help me make a link to some of the information I have on my personal computer. A thought also occurred to me regarding the names Thomas Cleary and Mary Anne Nolan. Could they have been "grandparents" as opposed to "parents". In some old records I have come across an instance where a child seemed to have been baptized with the granparents given as the godparents. In this particular case the baptism seemed to have been done in private the priest being a Nolan relative. Thinking along similar lines, could the child in question have been placed for care with his grandparents who took care of him? Could the "Thomas Clear" and "Mary Nowlan" given in my earlier Email (see below) have been the "grandparents" of your ancestor? >From correspondence, I know a bit more about the "Clear" family mentioned >in my online story (submitted by Inez Allen, now deceased). From family tradition, it appears that the family lived in the Ballon area in the early 1800s on Lecky land (part of the Ballykealey estate) and that the Leckys evicted them sometime around 1860. Several Nolan families lived in this area including my own. Bye for now, Roger P.S. On the subject of first names, it would appear that the first name "Peter" was adopted from the Normans. In Norman French, Peter was "Piers" as in Piers Butler. In Modern French Peter is "Pierre" (but identically pronounced) and, of course, Piers, pronounced the English way, also gave rise to Pearce/Pierce as in PearceBrosnan. I also found your first name "Germaine" interesting as I have never heard it before except in French. I am of Acadian descent on my mother's side and French is my mother tongue. I guess a part of your mother still lives on in you having chosen for you what is generally perceived at least here in Canada as a French name. She must have had a strong affinity to her French heritage. ********************* http://nolanfamilies.org ********************** From: "Germaine" <germaine.cowell@tiscali.co.uk> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:39 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cleary Family & Peter Nolan (Germaine) Thank you Roger all that is very interesting and could be the clue we need. It is strange you say about the De Clare I am sure my Mum once said about Cleary originating from France. Wish I had taken more notice of her. Things she used to say I thought she was just guessing but other things from this side of the water have turned out right. Wish she was here now. Thanks again Germaine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Nowlan" <rnowlan@primus.ca> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cleary Family & Peter Nolan (Germaine) Germaine, "Denis" may be a clue as to the origins of the particular Nolan family. I know for a fact that Denis was a first name used in the Ballon area as far back as the late 1700s (e.g. one "Denys Nowlan" aged 16 died in 1777 and is buried in the Templepeter cemetery0. I also know for a fact that the "Michael Nolan" of Cunnaberry who died in 2002 in his late 80s had 6 or 7 Denis' in a row in his ancestry. All this to say that the first name Denis seems to have been prevalent in the Ballon area. I also note that there was Thomas Clear from the Ballon area married a Mary Ann Nowlan in the early 1800s. (NOTE: I believe that Cleary & Clear are vaiations on the original surname De Clare) Here is what I have the above -mentioned Thomas Clear: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1831 : Kilconnor, Co. Carlow, IE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [175] Mary Nowlan (???? - ????) - from Ireland [176] Thomas Clear (???? - ????) - from Ireland Children: Johanna (c1831), possibly others More on Thomas Clear and children: Children of MARY NOWLAN and THOMAS CLEAR: Johanna (c1831) of Kilconnor m. John KELLY (c1831-1875) of Killane in St. Andrews RC Church, Bagenalstown, Co. Carlow, on July 01, 1858; they emigrated to Canada between 1869 and 1871 and settled in Farrelton, Quebec, located along the Gatineau river. This was at a time when the Gatineau river was used for logging emptying into the Ottawa river at Ottawa. Johanna died in East Templeton (now Gatineau, QC) located at the mouth of the Gatineau river. ... ****************** "Peter" was also a first name for Nolan found in the Ballon area. My own ancestor was a Peter Nowland born near Ballon around 1796. My Peter was the son of a James Nowlan married to Mary Clowry (nee Shortall) and James Nowlan seems to have had a brother named Michael married to an Anne Brennan who also named a son Peter in 1793. The latter also had a daughter named Catherine in 1794. Both Peter and Catherine were baptized in the Ballon church. Regards, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Germaine" <germaine.cowell@tiscali.co.uk> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:15 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Deere/Deer/Dear Family Hi again Thanks Roger on Mary and Thomas marriage cert one witness is a Denis Nolan. I haven't found about him I should imagine he is a relative. Germaine x Hi! Nothing much to add except to say that I believe that the "Mr. Nowland the priest" mentioned below was likely the Reverend Doctor Nicholas Nowland who was leasing a large piece of land from the Leckys in the Ballon area in 1787 and was also the Parish Priest of Ballon in the 1780s. Regards, Roger Nowlan Good evening all, With thanks to Mick Purcell I have managed to trace a line in my family tree to the late 1700's to two brothers; John Dear and Thomas Dear, the latter from which I descend and who married a Judith Dunne. I imagine the brothers were born c1775 or earlier. Information I have to date (Source: Carlow Heritage Society/Clayton-Browne Papers/Mick Purcell): There is a Judith Dunne listed at Raheenwood, Old Leighlin, in Griffith's Valuations 1852 as renting 'Houses, and Land' from Anne Vigors and Sisters. Land area listed as follows: A=2 R=1 r=29. Cost of land rent IR£1. House rent is 5 shillings making total, IR£1 and 5 shillings. This may be the same Judith Dunne who married Thomas. If so, he may have passed away by this point, if this was the home that he and his wife settled in. Extract from Browne-Clayton Papers: 'Kallender of Prisoners in Custody Newton, Esquire, High Sheriff of Carlow, 6th day of October 1796. Edward Byrne fined two marks and to give Security to be of the Peace for seven years. John Rourke guilty of assault, fined one mark (13 shillings and 4 pence) and then discharged. Thomas Deer found guilty of two assaults and to be imprisoned for a fortnight, fined six pence.' This also tells us Thomas was a blacksmith. Following the 1798 rebellion men in the area made the statements such as the following made by Thomas (records found in UK by, and held by, Mick Purcell): 'Thomas Deer of Bridewell Lane, Dealer, Sworn by his brother John Deer of Cockpit lane, had a pike and gave to Mr. Nowland the priest and requires a protection.' Thomas's son James raised his own family on Pollerton Road, but I would like to find out where his father Thomas and uncle James were born. I have a feeling it may be Killeshin. I may be wrong. I am at a dead end at this point and so far have been unable to find out who the parents of Thomas and John are. Can anyone point me in the right direction, offer some suggestions? -- Regards, Kristian ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. 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