just out of interest - i met a lady in london once who informed she had descended from the De Clare family who she believes had a "big house" or gentry estate in Sligo. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Germaine" <germaine.cowell@tiscali.co.uk> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 14 June, 2010 08:39:42 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cleary Family & Peter Nolan (Germaine) Thank you Roger all that is very interesting and could be the clue we need. It is strange you say about the De Clare I am sure my Mum once said about Cleary originating from France. Wish I had taken more notice of her. Things she used to say I thought she was just guessing but other things from this side of the water have turned out right. Wish she was here now. Thanks again Germaine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Nowlan" <rnowlan@primus.ca> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cleary Family & Peter Nolan (Germaine) Germaine, "Denis" may be a clue as to the origins of the particular Nolan family. I know for a fact that Denis was a first name used in the Ballon area as far back as the late 1700s (e.g. one "Denys Nowlan" aged 16 died in 1777 and is buried in the Templepeter cemetery0. I also know for a fact that the "Michael Nolan" of Cunnaberry who died in 2002 in his late 80s had 6 or 7 Denis' in a row in his ancestry. All this to say that the first name Denis seems to have been prevalent in the Ballon area. I also note that there was Thomas Clear from the Ballon area married a Mary Ann Nowlan in the early 1800s. (NOTE: I believe that Cleary & Clear are vaiations on the original surname De Clare) Here is what I have the above -mentioned Thomas Clear: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1831 : Kilconnor, Co. Carlow, IE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [175] Mary Nowlan (???? - ????) - from Ireland [176] Thomas Clear (???? - ????) - from Ireland Children: Johanna (c1831), possibly others More on Thomas Clear and children: Children of MARY NOWLAN and THOMAS CLEAR: Johanna (c1831) of Kilconnor m. John KELLY (c1831-1875) of Killane in St. Andrews RC Church, Bagenalstown, Co. Carlow, on July 01, 1858; they emigrated to Canada between 1869 and 1871 and settled in Farrelton, Quebec, located along the Gatineau river. This was at a time when the Gatineau river was used for logging emptying into the Ottawa river at Ottawa. Johanna died in East Templeton (now Gatineau, QC) located at the mouth of the Gatineau river. ... ****************** "Peter" was also a first name for Nolan found in the Ballon area. My own ancestor was a Peter Nowland born near Ballon around 1796. My Peter was the son of a James Nowlan married to Mary Clowry (nee Shortall) and James Nowlan seems to have had a brother named Michael married to an Anne Brennan who also named a son Peter in 1793. The latter also had a daughter named Catherine in 1794. Both Peter and Catherine were baptized in the Ballon church. Regards, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Germaine" <germaine.cowell@tiscali.co.uk> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:15 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Deere/Deer/Dear Family Hi again Thanks Roger on Mary and Thomas marriage cert one witness is a Denis Nolan. I haven't found about him I should imagine he is a relative. Germaine x Hi! Nothing much to add except to say that I believe that the "Mr. Nowland the priest" mentioned below was likely the Reverend Doctor Nicholas Nowland who was leasing a large piece of land from the Leckys in the Ballon area in 1787 and was also the Parish Priest of Ballon in the 1780s. Regards, Roger Nowlan Good evening all, With thanks to Mick Purcell I have managed to trace a line in my family tree to the late 1700's to two brothers; John Dear and Thomas Dear, the latter from which I descend and who married a Judith Dunne. I imagine the brothers were born c1775 or earlier. Information I have to date (Source: Carlow Heritage Society/Clayton-Browne Papers/Mick Purcell): There is a Judith Dunne listed at Raheenwood, Old Leighlin, in Griffith's Valuations 1852 as renting 'Houses, and Land' from Anne Vigors and Sisters. Land area listed as follows: A=2 R=1 r=29. Cost of land rent IR£1. House rent is 5 shillings making total, IR£1 and 5 shillings. This may be the same Judith Dunne who married Thomas. If so, he may have passed away by this point, if this was the home that he and his wife settled in. Extract from Browne-Clayton Papers: 'Kallender of Prisoners in Custody Newton, Esquire, High Sheriff of Carlow, 6th day of October 1796. Edward Byrne fined two marks and to give Security to be of the Peace for seven years. John Rourke guilty of assault, fined one mark (13 shillings and 4 pence) and then discharged. Thomas Deer found guilty of two assaults and to be imprisoned for a fortnight, fined six pence.' This also tells us Thomas was a blacksmith. Following the 1798 rebellion men in the area made the statements such as the following made by Thomas (records found in UK by, and held by, Mick Purcell): 'Thomas Deer of Bridewell Lane, Dealer, Sworn by his brother John Deer of Cockpit lane, had a pike and gave to Mr. Nowland the priest and requires a protection.' Thomas's son James raised his own family on Pollerton Road, but I would like to find out where his father Thomas and uncle James were born. I have a feeling it may be Killeshin. I may be wrong. I am at a dead end at this point and so far have been unable to find out who the parents of Thomas and John are. Can anyone point me in the right direction, offer some suggestions? -- Regards, Kristian ======================================= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2925 - Release Date: 06/08/10 07:35:00 ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2931 - Release Date: 06/11/10 07:35:00 ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Anna!
Anna, I can't say I have heard of the De Clare having a big house in Sligo but I can believe that one might have been built there in the early 1300s, especially if they had been supporters of the Knights Templar through their association with William Marshall who had married Isabel de Clare (daughter of Richard "Strongbow" de Clare) in the late 1100s. William Marshall, regent of England by the time of his death in the early 1200s was a strong supporter of the Knights Templar and made the Templar vows upon his deathbed. Strongbow only had daughters so his line continued through his daughters, the Bigod line in Carlow being one of them. Roger Bigod, Lord of Carlow in 1297 and grandson of William Marshall and Isabel de Clare (daughter of Richard "Strongbow" de Clare) was, I believe, also sympathetic to the Templars when their order was disssolved in the early 1300s, refusing in 1297 to fight against the French ("[By God] I will neither hang nor go"). I am not familiar with other branches of the De Clare family and it is possible that one settled in Sligo. ( link to info. on Strongbow http://www.castlewales.com/is_clare.html ). In the first decade of the 1300s, many of the Templar knights fled to Scotland via the ports of Sligo and Tyrone, with the help of the "Fisher King" of Tyrone and went on to assist the Scots win at Bannockburn in 1315. Bye for now, Roger *************** http://nolanfamilies.org ******************* ----- Original Message ----- From: <annagolan@eircom.net> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cleary Family & Peter Nolan (Germaine) > just out of interest - i met a lady in london once who informed she had > descended from the De Clare family who she believes had a "big house" or > gentry estate in Sligo. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Germaine" <germaine.cowell@tiscali.co.uk> > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, 14 June, 2010 08:39:42 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, > Portugal > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cleary Family & Peter Nolan (Germaine) > > Thank you Roger all that is very interesting and could be the clue we > need. > It is strange you say about the De Clare I am sure my Mum once said about > Cleary originating from France. Wish I had taken more notice of her. > Things > she used to say I thought she was just guessing but other things from this > side of the water have turned out right. Wish she was here now. > > Thanks again > Germaine > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Nowlan" <rnowlan@primus.ca> > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 1:22 AM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cleary Family & Peter Nolan (Germaine) > > > Germaine, > > "Denis" may be a clue as to the origins of the particular Nolan family. > I know for a fact that Denis was a first name used in the Ballon area as > far > back as the late 1700s (e.g. one "Denys Nowlan" aged 16 died in 1777 and > is > buried in the Templepeter cemetery0. I also know for a fact that the > "Michael Nolan" of Cunnaberry who died in 2002 in his late 80s had 6 or 7 > Denis' in a row in his ancestry. All this to say that the first name Denis > seems to have been prevalent in the Ballon area. > > I also note that there was Thomas Clear from the Ballon area married a > Mary > Ann Nowlan in the early 1800s. > (NOTE: I believe that Cleary & Clear are vaiations on the original surname > De Clare) > > Here is what I have the above -mentioned Thomas Clear: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1831 : Kilconnor, Co. Carlow, IE > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > [175] Mary Nowlan (???? - ????) - from Ireland > [176] Thomas Clear (???? - ????) - from Ireland > Children: Johanna (c1831), possibly others > More on Thomas Clear and children: > Children of MARY NOWLAN and THOMAS CLEAR: > > Johanna (c1831) of Kilconnor m. John KELLY (c1831-1875) of Killane in St. > Andrews RC Church, Bagenalstown, Co. Carlow, on July 01, 1858; they > emigrated to Canada between 1869 and 1871 and settled in Farrelton, > Quebec, > located along the Gatineau river. This was at a time when the Gatineau > river > was used for logging emptying into the Ottawa river at Ottawa. Johanna > died > in East Templeton (now Gatineau, QC) located at the mouth of the Gatineau > river. > ... > > ****************** > > "Peter" was also a first name for Nolan found in the Ballon area. My own > ancestor was a Peter Nowland born near Ballon around 1796. My Peter was > the > son of a James Nowlan married to Mary Clowry (nee Shortall) and James > Nowlan > seems to have had a brother named Michael married to an Anne Brennan who > also named a son Peter in 1793. The latter also had a daughter named > Catherine in 1794. Both Peter and Catherine were baptized in the Ballon > church. > > Regards, Roger > > http://nolanfamilies.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Germaine" <germaine.cowell@tiscali.co.uk> > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:15 AM > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Deere/Deer/Dear Family > > > > Hi again > Thanks Roger > on Mary and Thomas marriage cert one witness is a Denis Nolan. > I haven't found about him I should imagine he is a relative. > Germaine > x > Hi! > Nothing much to add except to say that I believe that the "Mr. Nowland the > priest" mentioned below was likely the Reverend Doctor Nicholas Nowland > who > was leasing a large piece of land from the Leckys in the Ballon area in > 1787 > and was also the Parish Priest of Ballon in the 1780s. > > Regards, > Roger Nowlan > > > Good evening all, > > With thanks to Mick Purcell I have managed to trace a line in my family > tree > to the late 1700's to two brothers; John Dear and Thomas Dear, the latter > from which I descend and who married a Judith Dunne. I imagine the > brothers > were born c1775 or earlier. > > Information I have to date (Source: Carlow Heritage Society/Clayton-Browne > Papers/Mick Purcell): > > There is a Judith Dunne listed at Raheenwood, Old Leighlin, in Griffith's > Valuations 1852 as renting 'Houses, and Land' from Anne Vigors and > Sisters. > Land area listed as follows: A=2 R=1 r=29. Cost of land rent IR£1. House > rent is 5 shillings making total, IR£1 and 5 shillings. This may be the > same > Judith Dunne who married Thomas. If so, he may have passed away by this > point, if this was the home that he and his wife settled in. > > Extract from Browne-Clayton Papers: > 'Kallender of Prisoners in Custody Newton, Esquire, High Sheriff of > Carlow, > 6th day of October 1796. > Edward Byrne fined two marks and to give Security to be of the Peace for > seven years. > John Rourke guilty of assault, fined one mark (13 shillings and 4 pence) > and > then discharged. > Thomas Deer found guilty of two assaults and to be imprisoned for a > fortnight, fined six pence.' > This also tells us Thomas was a blacksmith. > > Following the 1798 rebellion men in the area made the statements such as > the > following made by Thomas (records found in UK by, and held by, Mick > Purcell): > 'Thomas Deer of Bridewell Lane, Dealer, Sworn by his brother John Deer of > Cockpit lane, had a pike and gave to Mr. Nowland the priest and requires a > protection.' > > Thomas's son James raised his own family on Pollerton Road, but I would > like > to find out where his father Thomas and uncle James were born. I have a > feeling it may be Killeshin. I may be wrong. I am at a dead end at this > point and so far have been unable to find out who the parents of Thomas > and > John are. > > Can anyone point me in the right direction, offer some suggestions? > > -- > Regards, > > Kristian > ======================================= > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2925 - Release Date: 06/08/10 > 07:35:00 > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2931 - Release Date: 06/11/10 > 07:35:00 > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > Anna! > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message