the Carlow Sentinel 1836 "heretics" of course being the Roman Catholics, who were ruled by 'the ungovernable ruffians who supported Mr Thomas C. Bunbury', in 1835, what a twist !. Back then a year was a long time in politics. In a further twist, that musta stung, they used the term "Faith not kept with Heretics" aimed at the voting catholics in Carlow, it was first introduced during the Crusades and reinforced by the Roman Catholic Church as dogma during several church Councils dating back to 1167 !. On 27 June 2013 17:21, Turtle Bunbury (History) <turtlehistory@gmail.com>wrote: > What a brilliant and ever-thickening plot! > > > > Turtle Bunbury > www.turtlebunbury.com > www.facebook.com/Wistorical > www.amazon.com/Turtle-Bunbury/e/B001ITXQEY > > Listen to Turtle's Hidden Histories on Newstalk every Tuesday morning at > 9:45am. > > Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 Skype: > turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury > > > > > On 27 Jun 2013, at 16:42, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for Coroner, > > Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr Kavanagh and > > the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went > forward > > for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to give > > him his support. > > The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 > which > > reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go > unpunished". > > Carlow Sentinel. > > June 1836. > > SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. > > Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the > > Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help elect Mr > > Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental > > qualifications are concerned. > > Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it went in > Mr > > Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote for > Mr > > Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. > > Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his house, > and > > never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, Mr > > Kavanagh. > > How true it is that in all the relations of life -- > > "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" > > This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be found > on > > the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary > warning > > to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow > > favours.-- > > Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and shamefully > > neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future he > > will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for support. He > > can expect none from any other quarter. > > > > > > > > On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his > >> election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and > beaten" > >> you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was > >> attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, > >> Ron. > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

What a brilliant and ever-thickening plot! Turtle Bunbury

 www.turtlebunbury.com www.facebook.com/Wistorical www.amazon.com/Turtle-Bunbury/e/B001ITXQEY Listen to Turtle's Hidden Histories on Newstalk every Tuesday morning at 9:45am. Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland

 Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 Skype: turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury On 27 Jun 2013, at 16:42, Michael Purcell wrote: > In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for Coroner, > Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr Kavanagh and > the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went forward > for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to give > him his support. > The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 which > reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go unpunished". > Carlow Sentinel. > June 1836. > SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. > Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the > Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help elect Mr > Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental > qualifications are concerned. > Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it went in Mr > Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote for Mr > Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. > Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his house, and > never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, Mr > Kavanagh. > How true it is that in all the relations of life -- > "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" > This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be found on > the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary warning > to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow > favours.-- > Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and shamefully > neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future he > will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for support. He > can expect none from any other quarter. > > > > On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his >> election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and beaten" >> you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was >> attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, >> Ron. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for Coroner, Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr Kavanagh and the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went forward for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to give him his support. The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 which reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go unpunished". Carlow Sentinel. June 1836. SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help elect Mr Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental qualifications are concerned. Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it went in Mr Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote for Mr Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his house, and never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, Mr Kavanagh. How true it is that in all the relations of life -- "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be found on the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary warning to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow favours.-- Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and shamefully neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future he will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for support. He can expect none from any other quarter. On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his > election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and beaten" > you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was > attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, > Ron. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I guess Mr Gorman made enemies fairly fast. it could have been any side that knocked him from his horse and beat him ?, "No Faith to be kept with Heretics" that was deep. I agree with Turtle, a brilliant saga, you are giving us a great insight into local politics in the 1830s. > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:08:38 +0100 > From: carlowmike@gmail.com > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Edward Gorman. > > the Carlow Sentinel 1836 "heretics" of course being the Roman > Catholics, who were ruled by 'the ungovernable ruffians who supported Mr > Thomas C. Bunbury', in 1835, what a twist !. > Back then a year was a long time in politics. > In a further twist, that musta stung, they used the term "Faith not kept > with Heretics" aimed at the voting catholics in Carlow, it was first > introduced during the Crusades and reinforced by the Roman Catholic > Church as dogma during several church Councils dating back to 1167 !. > > On 27 June 2013 17:21, Turtle Bunbury (History) <turtlehistory@gmail.com>wrote: > > > What a brilliant and ever-thickening plot! > > > > > > > > Turtle Bunbury > > www.turtlebunbury.com > > www.facebook.com/Wistorical > > www.amazon.com/Turtle-Bunbury/e/B001ITXQEY > > > > Listen to Turtle's Hidden Histories on Newstalk every Tuesday morning at > > 9:45am. > > > > Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > > Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 Skype: > > turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Jun 2013, at 16:42, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > > > In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for Coroner, > > > Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr Kavanagh and > > > the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went > > forward > > > for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to give > > > him his support. > > > The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 > > which > > > reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go > > unpunished". > > > Carlow Sentinel. > > > June 1836. > > > SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. > > > Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the > > > Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help elect Mr > > > Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental > > > qualifications are concerned. > > > Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it went in > > Mr > > > Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote for > > Mr > > > Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. > > > Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his house, > > and > > > never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, Mr > > > Kavanagh. > > > How true it is that in all the relations of life -- > > > "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" > > > This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be found > > on > > > the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary > > warning > > > to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow > > > favours.-- > > > Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and shamefully > > > neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future he > > > will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for support. He > > > can expect none from any other quarter. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his > > >> election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and > > beaten" > > >> you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was > > >> attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, > > >> Ron. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am providing information supporting Susie's original idea (read below). WorldFamilies.net, which is allied to FTDNA, provides an information page that should be of interest to anyone who may be curious about the potential uses of DNA for family history. It is at http://www.worldfamilies.net/smart. Of potential relevance to Susie's topic is the link to 'Geographic Projects'. There exist already a number of Irish projects, the most interesting of which to me seems to be an Ireland mtDNA group that already has 1197 members. (At this page, John, is displayed a picture and information on FTDNA's testing kit.) There is also information on uploading results of outside tests to FTDNA's databases. I repeat that I have no brief for FTDNA but that they have the genealogical side of DNA pretty much tied up. Perhaps many members of a family can contribute to the cost of one senior member being tested. Bill -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Susan Warren Sent: Monday, 17 June 2013 12:21 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] DNA Testing - Some proof! Hi John I made this suggestion [for people who might be interested] based on my own personal experience. I have nothing to gain financially by promoting DNA testing only looking to expand my own research. I thought as a group it might prove worthwhile to our list as we all have one thing in common - CARLOW. We share all our information on Carlow and this would be taking it one step further! It will only be useful if the results are all available in one data base - that is why I suggested we use Family Tree DNA which are running a special at the moment and as I have used it myself for a number of test for myself and my husband. I believe that you can upload your results to some of the other data bases for a fee but I haven't done this myself as yet. To prove it works and to isolate the Warren cousins specifically - one of Rob's females cousins from Canada undertook a Family Finder test. Family Tree did not know they were connected in anyway as she has a totally different surname and lives in another country. She came up in his data base as a 2nd cousin, and he in hers, which she is; as their grandfathers were brothers from Tullow, Co Carlow. So I proved it works which was a concern to me also and I think this should cover your query as to decent proof! So a male cousin was linked to a female cousin with a totally different surname which I think is a marvelous DNA test and the most useful one for females as well as males. I don't believe DNA testing is flawed and I say this because of our own personal experience. Many years ago, my husband got a call from a girl friend from his distant past - saying he was the father of her child which she had given up for adoption. A huge shock for us ALL - especially as it was over thirty years since he had seen her and never knew of her terrible dilemma! Our family had a wonderful relationship with his new found son although he lived on the other side of the world! After six years, we decided to do a paternal DNA test when they became available for legalities with wills etc. They undertook a paternal DNA test which said they were not father and son!! It was a terrible shock and we were all devastated and couldn't believe it. The happy ending to this saga is that we all still have a very close relationship and he is still a part of our family although not related by DNA! We had the tests done at least three times at different labs in the UK and Australia - his birth mother contributed DNA for testing as well. The results from all the tests showed that the results were absolutely identical - not just YES or NO - but each marker that was tested gave identical readings- some 16 different markers from memory. You get half of the DNA from the mother and half from the father. So you eliminate those identical with the mother and the remaining have to be an exact match with the father. All very interesting from a scientific point of view but can be devastating from a personal one. As a result I have absolutely no doubts about the accuracy of DNA testing. That's it from me on this subject as I am going away for a month. For those interest in this exercise I suggest we all use the one company to keep things simple. Susie Warren -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Shepperd Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:57 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] IRL-CARLOW Digest, Vol 8, Issue 214 Probably a good deal of flawed science in this, as well as heavy marketing. It is a nice idea, but has enormous potential for duping the innocent of Carlow! We need decent proof that this system is valid. John ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Saw this today. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-regulation-could-restrict-genealogical-research-1.1440075 Debbie

This is of particular interest to me....thanks for all your hard word, Roger! Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> wrote: >Mick, > >In the transcription of the obituary below I note in particular that: >“ON Saturday, 19th December 1795 the funeral procession took place from his >house at Oak Park Estate to his new town of Nurney of the late Colonel Henry Bruen.” > >As a Nolan researcher, the fact that Col. Bruen was interred in the “new town” of Nurney in 1795 is of interest. >A Patrick Nolan who was Col. Bruen’s junior by 10 years is also buried there (in the St. John`s Church of Ireland cemetery) >and his tombstone inscription reads as follows: >" >Erected by ADAM NOLAN of >Bagenalstown >in memory of his beloved Mother >DORATHE NOLAN Al's WALKER >who dep'd this life >May the 14th 1835 >Aged 69 yrs. >Also his Father PATRICK NOLAN >who departed this life March the >29th 1847 aged 97 years. (=>c1750-1847) >" > >Until now I believed that this Patrick Nolan/Nowlan was a son of Matthias Nowlan (1715-1793) of Kilconnor (just south of Ballon) but now I have some doubts. Matthias’ family was evicted from the Kilconnor townland, near Ballon, by the Watson family (most likely after 1793, after his death) and it is said that when his son John moved the family’s chattel to Rathvinden near Leighlinbridge, it was several miles in length. Patrick’s name appears as a sibling of John on a handwritten genealogy chart made by a Fr. O’Leary ( a descendant of the Kilconnor Nolans) in the early 1900s with the only information given being that he “had issue”. This seems strange as much more information is provided for John and his other siblings. This suggests that, for whatever reason, the main body of the Nolan family lost touch with Patrick’s side of the family ... or simply that Fr. O’Leary may have been wrong about the family link ... perhaps this Patrick was a cousin as oppo! sed to a sibling to the others. > >Coming back to the Patrick Nolan buried in Nurney, we do know that he had a son named Adam, the one who had the tombstone erected, and, based upon strong circumstantial evidence which follows, I believe that he had another son named William. > a.. Patrick’s son Adam, married to Catherine Byrne, had his children in baptized in the Catholic church > as follows, in Bagenalstown : Dorothy (1820), Patrick (1822), twins John and James (1824), Mary-Anne (1827). > > b.. Patrick’s assumed son William, married to Valinda Webster, had his children baptized in the Catholic church > as follows: in Bagenalstown: Edward (1827); in Quebec city: John (1829), Patrick (1830), Dorothy (1832), Adam Peter (1835). > NOTE: An Anne Nolan and a George Webster, godparents to Edward in 1827, may have been an aunt and an uncle. >Based upon the names of Adam and William’s children given above, it would appear as if their grandfather was named Edward, not Matthias. The Nolan book (published in 2000) states that Matthias Nowlan of Kilconnor was a first cousin to the Ballinrush Nolans and this is where we first look for Adam and William’s grandfather Edward. As it happens, from a previous posting, I recall that the Thomas Nolan of Ballon who died in 1832 had a lease on lands in Myshall which, from the 1850s Griffith’s Valuation, I identified as being in the Ballinrush townland and owned by a Mr. Baggott. Having, by association, worked our way back to the Ballon area, from previous known records, I now recognize that the Edward Nowlan of Ballykealey (near Ballon) whose will was proved in 1814 may have been the father of Patrick Nolan of Nurney. > >What we do know is that the Edward Nowlan who died in 1814 was a farmer, married to a Margaret and that, at the time of his death he had sons named Patrick and James. Therefore, If I am right so far then we are dealing here with the Killane and Kilkey Nolans, referred to as the Killane and Kilkeen Nolans in Fr. MacSuibhne’s writings, as previously owning much of the Lecky lands. Some of Fr. MacSuibhne’s notes about the Killane and Kilkeen Nolans are reproduced on the following Cummins family webpage (see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cummins/HXballonRathoe.htm ). > >Pulling all this together, I now believe that, in the late 1700s, the Nolans leasing land in the Kilconnor townland and in the neighbouring Killane and Kilkey townlands, were more closely related to the Nolans working the land for the Lecky family at Ballykealey (the former Nolan chief’s seat), i.e. the Ballykealey Nolans, than the other major Nolan line, the Shangarry Nolans. It would also appear that representatives of both Ballykealey Nolans AND the Shangarry Nolans leased lands in Ballinrush in the early 1800s. > >Also, what is becoming more evident is that the association of one line to a particular townland is a somewhat unreliable piece of information given the large number of Nolans who lived in the Myshall-Ballon area in the early 1800s. For Nolans at least, signature first names seem to be a more reliable measure for identification of a particular Nolan line. > >As regards the genealogy of the Shangarry Nolans, I now believe that “John the Poet” O’Nowlan whose genealogy is documented in O’Hart’s belonged to the Ballykealey Nolan line. Based upon my experience, some of the signature first names which seem to be associated with the Ballykealey Nolans are Edward (?from Eochaidh, found several times in the O’Hart documented genealogy of the O’Nowlans), Charles (from Cahir), Garret, Philip and Felix (from Phelim as in Tullowphelim), Stephen, ... > >Coming back to Col. Henry Bruen himself, Patrick Nowlan of Nurney, was likely one of his tenants. Another Nowlan tenant of the Bruen family at the time was a Garret Nowlan leasing land Linkardstown (Tinryland area). It is possible the two Nowlan tenants were related, being both, in my opinion, of the Ballykealey Nolan line in the Ballon area. I know of one Kilkeen Nowlan, a Garret Nowlan married to an Anastatia Hennessey who had a son named Daniel in the early 1790s and he could have been the same one leasing land in Linkardstown in the early 1800s [RN: This Garret also had a son named Patrick who emigrated to the Halifax area in Canada.] > >Well that’s it for today! > >Bye for now, >Roger > >http://nolanfamilies.org > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Purcell >Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:55 PM >To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1795,Colonel Henry Bruen. > >The printer of this Pamphlet was George Cooke, Carlow, dated 1796. > >On 16 June 2013 18:24, Friend of Carlow <friendsofcarlowtempe@gmail.com>wrote: > >> [ 4 page brochure in the PPP, among the papers bearing the >> stamp T.C.Crawford. ] >> Printed for Distribution to the Family and Friends of the late >> Colonel Henry Bruen. >> Oak Park Estate, Carlow. >> FUNERAL CEREMONY AND PROCESSION >> of the Late and Lamented >> COLONEL HENRY BRUEN. >> 1741 - 1795. >> Soldier - Officer - Gentleman. >> Member of Parliament. >> Magistrate. >> Governor and Custos Rotulorum for County of Carlow. >> ON Saturday, 19th December 1795 the funeral procession took place from his >> house at Oak Park Estate to his new town of Nurney of the late Colonel >> Henry Bruen. >> The Carlow Militia quartered at Waterford, paraded for the purpose of doing >> military honors to the memory of their deceased Commandant. >> The whole regiment were in mourning ; and the late Colonel's sword, sash, >> gorget, spurs, etc. were bound with crape and borne by an officer. >> Arms were then ordered to be reversed, and the regiment were put in march >> by Captain Wolsey, the band playing a Dead March. >> In this order the regiment proceeded to the review-field, opposite Oak Park >> House where they formed a line, rested on reversed arms, and gave room for >> the officer carrying the late Colonel's sword etc. to pass through, the >> band playing and drums beating a Dead March. >> The commanding officer, claimed the attention of the Regiment, and with >> much pathos addressed them. >> Address by CAPTAIN WOLSEY [ abbreviated ]. >> " SOLDIERS - >> BY the grief which I observe in the countenance of this Corps, I am, >> convinced that it joins heartily with me in the high opinion I had formed >> of its much lamented late Colonel ; and I shall try to suppress my feelings >> while I endeavour to explain to you your loss. >> HE was the soldiers steadfast friend ; as a soldier, he was high indeed in >> the estimation of veterans, he knew and was known to them all ; and by all >> was respected. >> At a very early time of life, as a volunteer, he carried arms on actual >> service ; soon distinguished himself - and was promoted. >> >From this period, his military career was a continued train of honourable, >> intrepid and generous actions ; raised during the late WAR in America, to >> one of the highest and most important posts in the army, he acted with >> great gallantry, pushing himself forward in every enterprize of danger. >> HIS diligence, his generosity, his hospitality, had no bounds; helping his >> fellow officers in their promotion ; and furnishing an open, a princely >> table for the whole army -- an army of ABOVE TWENTY THOUSAND MEN ; not >> merely confining himself to officers of high rank, but embracing the whole >> of every corps, the navy as well as the army. >> THE name of - BRUEN AND ABUNDANCE - went hand in hand, were echoed and >> re-echoed by the unanimous voice of an approving and GRATEFUL ARMY. >> SUCH were the outlines of his military life ! --- >> SEE him in the calm retreats of peace !. >> VIEW him as a citizen, establishing manufactures ; rewarding industry, and >> rendering by his liberality, a thinly-inhabited and sterile part of Oak >> Park into a populous and fruitful area. >> VIEW him as a magistrate ; you recollect the disturbed state of the >> Collieries in the neighbourhood Carlow in 1793, and their threats against >> the Inhabitants of Carlow ; you were witness as to how the late Colonel >> brought these lawless people to a proper sense of their duty and restored >> confidence to the well-affected and loyal. >> YOU saw him, in person, apprehend several men in your own County of Carlow, >> of the most desperate characters ; men who were a pest to society, were in >> possession of arms, were the terror of their neighbourhood, and had set all >> law at defiance. >> In a word you saw him one of the most active magistrates in Carlow. >> BUT, how shall I talk of him in private life ? - >> He was the most happy, the most indulgent of husbands, the best of fathers, >> and a warm and faithful friend. >> AND, soldiers ! let me not forget on the Solemn occasion, and as the moment >> of his interment draws near, to remind you, above all, of his acts as a >> moral man and as a Christian. HE FED THE HUNGRY ; HE CLOATHED THE NAKED ; - >> HE GAVE PRINCELY SUPPORT TO THE NECESSITOUS ; he built a sanctuary to his >> God ! - >> Within the consecrated walls of the Church of Nurney of which his corpse is >> now about to be deposited." >> GOD SAVE THE KING. >> [ end of abbreviated version Captain Wolsey's speech ]. >> An awful silence followed - the regiment leaning on their reversed arms -- >> when the band commenced solemn music ; a signal was then given, and the >> regiment fired three volleys with great precision, the band filling up the >> interval of time required for reloading. >> Upon the whole we never were witness to a procession and ceremony more >> solemn and affecting. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mick, In the transcription of the obituary below I note in particular that: “ON Saturday, 19th December 1795 the funeral procession took place from his house at Oak Park Estate to his new town of Nurney of the late Colonel Henry Bruen.” As a Nolan researcher, the fact that Col. Bruen was interred in the “new town” of Nurney in 1795 is of interest. A Patrick Nolan who was Col. Bruen’s junior by 10 years is also buried there (in the St. John`s Church of Ireland cemetery) and his tombstone inscription reads as follows: " Erected by ADAM NOLAN of Bagenalstown in memory of his beloved Mother DORATHE NOLAN Al's WALKER who dep'd this life May the 14th 1835 Aged 69 yrs. Also his Father PATRICK NOLAN who departed this life March the 29th 1847 aged 97 years. (=>c1750-1847) " Until now I believed that this Patrick Nolan/Nowlan was a son of Matthias Nowlan (1715-1793) of Kilconnor (just south of Ballon) but now I have some doubts. Matthias’ family was evicted from the Kilconnor townland, near Ballon, by the Watson family (most likely after 1793, after his death) and it is said that when his son John moved the family’s chattel to Rathvinden near Leighlinbridge, it was several miles in length. Patrick’s name appears as a sibling of John on a handwritten genealogy chart made by a Fr. O’Leary ( a descendant of the Kilconnor Nolans) in the early 1900s with the only information given being that he “had issue”. This seems strange as much more information is provided for John and his other siblings. This suggests that, for whatever reason, the main body of the Nolan family lost touch with Patrick’s side of the family ... or simply that Fr. O’Leary may have been wrong about the family link ... perhaps this Patrick was a cousin as opposed to a sibling to the others. Coming back to the Patrick Nolan buried in Nurney, we do know that he had a son named Adam, the one who had the tombstone erected, and, based upon strong circumstantial evidence which follows, I believe that he had another son named William. a.. Patrick’s son Adam, married to Catherine Byrne, had his children in baptized in the Catholic church as follows, in Bagenalstown : Dorothy (1820), Patrick (1822), twins John and James (1824), Mary-Anne (1827). b.. Patrick’s assumed son William, married to Valinda Webster, had his children baptized in the Catholic church as follows: in Bagenalstown: Edward (1827); in Quebec city: John (1829), Patrick (1830), Dorothy (1832), Adam Peter (1835). NOTE: An Anne Nolan and a George Webster, godparents to Edward in 1827, may have been an aunt and an uncle. Based upon the names of Adam and William’s children given above, it would appear as if their grandfather was named Edward, not Matthias. The Nolan book (published in 2000) states that Matthias Nowlan of Kilconnor was a first cousin to the Ballinrush Nolans and this is where we first look for Adam and William’s grandfather Edward. As it happens, from a previous posting, I recall that the Thomas Nolan of Ballon who died in 1832 had a lease on lands in Myshall which, from the 1850s Griffith’s Valuation, I identified as being in the Ballinrush townland and owned by a Mr. Baggott. Having, by association, worked our way back to the Ballon area, from previous known records, I now recognize that the Edward Nowlan of Ballykealey (near Ballon) whose will was proved in 1814 may have been the father of Patrick Nolan of Nurney. What we do know is that the Edward Nowlan who died in 1814 was a farmer, married to a Margaret and that, at the time of his death he had sons named Patrick and James. Therefore, If I am right so far then we are dealing here with the Killane and Kilkey Nolans, referred to as the Killane and Kilkeen Nolans in Fr. MacSuibhne’s writings, as previously owning much of the Lecky lands. Some of Fr. MacSuibhne’s notes about the Killane and Kilkeen Nolans are reproduced on the following Cummins family webpage (see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cummins/HXballonRathoe.htm ). Pulling all this together, I now believe that, in the late 1700s, the Nolans leasing land in the Kilconnor townland and in the neighbouring Killane and Kilkey townlands, were more closely related to the Nolans working the land for the Lecky family at Ballykealey (the former Nolan chief’s seat), i.e. the Ballykealey Nolans, than the other major Nolan line, the Shangarry Nolans. It would also appear that representatives of both Ballykealey Nolans AND the Shangarry Nolans leased lands in Ballinrush in the early 1800s. Also, what is becoming more evident is that the association of one line to a particular townland is a somewhat unreliable piece of information given the large number of Nolans who lived in the Myshall-Ballon area in the early 1800s. For Nolans at least, signature first names seem to be a more reliable measure for identification of a particular Nolan line. As regards the genealogy of the Shangarry Nolans, I now believe that “John the Poet” O’Nowlan whose genealogy is documented in O’Hart’s belonged to the Ballykealey Nolan line. Based upon my experience, some of the signature first names which seem to be associated with the Ballykealey Nolans are Edward (?from Eochaidh, found several times in the O’Hart documented genealogy of the O’Nowlans), Charles (from Cahir), Garret, Philip and Felix (from Phelim as in Tullowphelim), Stephen, ... Coming back to Col. Henry Bruen himself, Patrick Nowlan of Nurney, was likely one of his tenants. Another Nowlan tenant of the Bruen family at the time was a Garret Nowlan leasing land Linkardstown (Tinryland area). It is possible the two Nowlan tenants were related, being both, in my opinion, of the Ballykealey Nolan line in the Ballon area. I know of one Kilkeen Nowlan, a Garret Nowlan married to an Anastatia Hennessey who had a son named Daniel in the early 1790s and he could have been the same one leasing land in Linkardstown in the early 1800s [RN: This Garret also had a son named Patrick who emigrated to the Halifax area in Canada.] Well that’s it for today! Bye for now, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org -----Original Message----- From: Michael Purcell Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:55 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1795,Colonel Henry Bruen. The printer of this Pamphlet was George Cooke, Carlow, dated 1796. On 16 June 2013 18:24, Friend of Carlow <friendsofcarlowtempe@gmail.com>wrote: > [ 4 page brochure in the PPP, among the papers bearing the > stamp T.C.Crawford. ] > Printed for Distribution to the Family and Friends of the late > Colonel Henry Bruen. > Oak Park Estate, Carlow. > FUNERAL CEREMONY AND PROCESSION > of the Late and Lamented > COLONEL HENRY BRUEN. > 1741 - 1795. > Soldier - Officer - Gentleman. > Member of Parliament. > Magistrate. > Governor and Custos Rotulorum for County of Carlow. > ON Saturday, 19th December 1795 the funeral procession took place from his > house at Oak Park Estate to his new town of Nurney of the late Colonel > Henry Bruen. > The Carlow Militia quartered at Waterford, paraded for the purpose of doing > military honors to the memory of their deceased Commandant. > The whole regiment were in mourning ; and the late Colonel's sword, sash, > gorget, spurs, etc. were bound with crape and borne by an officer. > Arms were then ordered to be reversed, and the regiment were put in march > by Captain Wolsey, the band playing a Dead March. > In this order the regiment proceeded to the review-field, opposite Oak Park > House where they formed a line, rested on reversed arms, and gave room for > the officer carrying the late Colonel's sword etc. to pass through, the > band playing and drums beating a Dead March. > The commanding officer, claimed the attention of the Regiment, and with > much pathos addressed them. > Address by CAPTAIN WOLSEY [ abbreviated ]. > " SOLDIERS - > BY the grief which I observe in the countenance of this Corps, I am, > convinced that it joins heartily with me in the high opinion I had formed > of its much lamented late Colonel ; and I shall try to suppress my feelings > while I endeavour to explain to you your loss. > HE was the soldiers steadfast friend ; as a soldier, he was high indeed in > the estimation of veterans, he knew and was known to them all ; and by all > was respected. > At a very early time of life, as a volunteer, he carried arms on actual > service ; soon distinguished himself - and was promoted. > >From this period, his military career was a continued train of honourable, > intrepid and generous actions ; raised during the late WAR in America, to > one of the highest and most important posts in the army, he acted with > great gallantry, pushing himself forward in every enterprize of danger. > HIS diligence, his generosity, his hospitality, had no bounds; helping his > fellow officers in their promotion ; and furnishing an open, a princely > table for the whole army -- an army of ABOVE TWENTY THOUSAND MEN ; not > merely confining himself to officers of high rank, but embracing the whole > of every corps, the navy as well as the army. > THE name of - BRUEN AND ABUNDANCE - went hand in hand, were echoed and > re-echoed by the unanimous voice of an approving and GRATEFUL ARMY. > SUCH were the outlines of his military life ! --- > SEE him in the calm retreats of peace !. > VIEW him as a citizen, establishing manufactures ; rewarding industry, and > rendering by his liberality, a thinly-inhabited and sterile part of Oak > Park into a populous and fruitful area. > VIEW him as a magistrate ; you recollect the disturbed state of the > Collieries in the neighbourhood Carlow in 1793, and their threats against > the Inhabitants of Carlow ; you were witness as to how the late Colonel > brought these lawless people to a proper sense of their duty and restored > confidence to the well-affected and loyal. > YOU saw him, in person, apprehend several men in your own County of Carlow, > of the most desperate characters ; men who were a pest to society, were in > possession of arms, were the terror of their neighbourhood, and had set all > law at defiance. > In a word you saw him one of the most active magistrates in Carlow. > BUT, how shall I talk of him in private life ? - > He was the most happy, the most indulgent of husbands, the best of fathers, > and a warm and faithful friend. > AND, soldiers ! let me not forget on the Solemn occasion, and as the moment > of his interment draws near, to remind you, above all, of his acts as a > moral man and as a Christian. HE FED THE HUNGRY ; HE CLOATHED THE NAKED ; - > HE GAVE PRINCELY SUPPORT TO THE NECESSITOUS ; he built a sanctuary to his > God ! - > Within the consecrated walls of the Church of Nurney of which his corpse is > now about to be deposited." > GOD SAVE THE KING. > [ end of abbreviated version Captain Wolsey's speech ]. > An awful silence followed - the regiment leaning on their reversed arms -- > when the band commenced solemn music ; a signal was then given, and the > regiment fired three volleys with great precision, the band filling up the > interval of time required for reloading. > Upon the whole we never were witness to a procession and ceremony more > solemn and affecting. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The printer of this Pamphlet was George Cooke, Carlow, dated 1796. On 16 June 2013 18:24, Friend of Carlow <friendsofcarlowtempe@gmail.com>wrote: > [ 4 page brochure in the PPP, among the papers bearing the > stamp T.C.Crawford. ] > Printed for Distribution to the Family and Friends of the late > Colonel Henry Bruen. > Oak Park Estate, Carlow. > FUNERAL CEREMONY AND PROCESSION > of the Late and Lamented > COLONEL HENRY BRUEN. > 1741 - 1795. > Soldier - Officer - Gentleman. > Member of Parliament. > Magistrate. > Governor and Custos Rotulorum for County of Carlow. > ON Saturday, 19th December 1795 the funeral procession took place from his > house at Oak Park Estate to his new town of Nurney of the late Colonel > Henry Bruen. > The Carlow Militia quartered at Waterford, paraded for the purpose of doing > military honors to the memory of their deceased Commandant. > The whole regiment were in mourning ; and the late Colonel's sword, sash, > gorget, spurs, etc. were bound with crape and borne by an officer. > Arms were then ordered to be reversed, and the regiment were put in march > by Captain Wolsey, the band playing a Dead March. > In this order the regiment proceeded to the review-field, opposite Oak Park > House where they formed a line, rested on reversed arms, and gave room for > the officer carrying the late Colonel's sword etc. to pass through, the > band playing and drums beating a Dead March. > The commanding officer, claimed the attention of the Regiment, and with > much pathos addressed them. > Address by CAPTAIN WOLSEY [ abbreviated ]. > " SOLDIERS - > BY the grief which I observe in the countenance of this Corps, I am, > convinced that it joins heartily with me in the high opinion I had formed > of its much lamented late Colonel ; and I shall try to suppress my feelings > while I endeavour to explain to you your loss. > HE was the soldiers steadfast friend ; as a soldier, he was high indeed in > the estimation of veterans, he knew and was known to them all ; and by all > was respected. > At a very early time of life, as a volunteer, he carried arms on actual > service ; soon distinguished himself - and was promoted. > >From this period, his military career was a continued train of honourable, > intrepid and generous actions ; raised during the late WAR in America, to > one of the highest and most important posts in the army, he acted with > great gallantry, pushing himself forward in every enterprize of danger. > HIS diligence, his generosity, his hospitality, had no bounds; helping his > fellow officers in their promotion ; and furnishing an open, a princely > table for the whole army -- an army of ABOVE TWENTY THOUSAND MEN ; not > merely confining himself to officers of high rank, but embracing the whole > of every corps, the navy as well as the army. > THE name of - BRUEN AND ABUNDANCE - went hand in hand, were echoed and > re-echoed by the unanimous voice of an approving and GRATEFUL ARMY. > SUCH were the outlines of his military life ! --- > SEE him in the calm retreats of peace !. > VIEW him as a citizen, establishing manufactures ; rewarding industry, and > rendering by his liberality, a thinly-inhabited and sterile part of Oak > Park into a populous and fruitful area. > VIEW him as a magistrate ; you recollect the disturbed state of the > Collieries in the neighbourhood Carlow in 1793, and their threats against > the Inhabitants of Carlow ; you were witness as to how the late Colonel > brought these lawless people to a proper sense of their duty and restored > confidence to the well-affected and loyal. > YOU saw him, in person, apprehend several men in your own County of Carlow, > of the most desperate characters ; men who were a pest to society, were in > possession of arms, were the terror of their neighbourhood, and had set all > law at defiance. > In a word you saw him one of the most active magistrates in Carlow. > BUT, how shall I talk of him in private life ? - > He was the most happy, the most indulgent of husbands, the best of fathers, > and a warm and faithful friend. > AND, soldiers ! let me not forget on the Solemn occasion, and as the moment > of his interment draws near, to remind you, above all, of his acts as a > moral man and as a Christian. HE FED THE HUNGRY ; HE CLOATHED THE NAKED ; - > HE GAVE PRINCELY SUPPORT TO THE NECESSITOUS ; he built a sanctuary to his > God ! - > Within the consecrated walls of the Church of Nurney of which his corpse is > now about to be deposited." > GOD SAVE THE KING. > [ end of abbreviated version Captain Wolsey's speech ]. > An awful silence followed - the regiment leaning on their reversed arms -- > when the band commenced solemn music ; a signal was then given, and the > regiment fired three volleys with great precision, the band filling up the > interval of time required for reloading. > Upon the whole we never were witness to a procession and ceremony more > solemn and affecting. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

[ note added 2013 by Michael Purcell -- Field Marshall, Lord Hugh Gough was the son of Letitia Bunbury of Carlow, he is googleable ]. Carlow Sentinel. 25th May 1850. THE CARLOW BUFFS. It was in this Regiment, the 119th, which was raised by the late Colonel Rochfort of Clogrennane, that General Viscount Gough commenced his military career in the line, after leaving the Limerick Militia. >From the Carlow Buffs, in which he served as a Lieutenant, he entered the 87th Regiment, which he subsequently commanded during the Peninsular War , and at the head of this gallant corps he captured a French Eagle on the heights of Barossa, and the baton of one of Napoleon's Marshals. ARRIVAL OF LORD GOUGH AT MOYLE. On Saturday last Colonel Bunbury received a visit from his distinguished relative, Lord Gough. Locals who were desirous of testifying their respect to the gallant veteran were disappointed by his non-arrival by the seven o'clock train. He arrived by carriage at the Carlow Club-House about eight o'clock, where Colonel Bunbury's carriage awaited his arrival, and accompanied by the Hon. Captain Gough, they proceeded without delay to Moyle, where arrangements were made on a splendid and extensive scale to give his lordship a truly Irish welcome. Lord Gough looked fresh and well, after thirteen years absence in China and India. A large number of the tenantry of the Bunbury estates, and people of the neighbourhood, assembled at an early hour. Moyle was magnificently fitted up for his lordship reception. In the evening an immense bonfire was lit on the adjoining height, which continued during the night to cast a glare on the surrounding district. The assembled crowd amused themselves until a late hour, being abundantly supplied with ale and porter by the worthy host. The gentry of the county were invited to meet the gallant chief, who has well entitled himself to a niche in the Gallery of "Illustrious Irishmen. Among those who attended were - Captain W.B. M'Clintock Bunbury, M.P., Colonel Bruen, M.P., Sir Thomas Butler, Bart., Sir James Strong, Bart., the High Sheriff, B. Burton and Thomas Bunbury.

Excellent, thanks Mick. An 1850 all nighter. Turtle Bunbury

 www.turtlebunbury.com www.facebook.com/Wistorical Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland

 Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 Skype: turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury On 21 Jun 2013, at 16:45, Michael Purcell wrote: > Carlow Sentinel. > 8th June 1850. > FESTIVITIES AT MOYLE. > On Monday last, Colonel Bunbury gave an entertainment to his tenantry and > labourers at Moyle, in commemoration of the visit of the gallant veteran, > Lord Gough. > The wives and children of the parties were invited to partake of the > substantial fare provided for the occasion. > At three o'clock about 150 persons sat down to dinner :- - Mr Smith > presided. > After the usual loyal toasts, the health of their worthy host, Colonel > Bunbury, was proposed and responded to, amid loud applause. > A brilliant display of fireworks, dancing, and rustic amusements followed, > and the company did not separate till an early hour in the following > morning. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Carlow Sentinel. 8th June 1850. FESTIVITIES AT MOYLE. On Monday last, Colonel Bunbury gave an entertainment to his tenantry and labourers at Moyle, in commemoration of the visit of the gallant veteran, Lord Gough. The wives and children of the parties were invited to partake of the substantial fare provided for the occasion. At three o'clock about 150 persons sat down to dinner :- - Mr Smith presided. After the usual loyal toasts, the health of their worthy host, Colonel Bunbury, was proposed and responded to, amid loud applause. A brilliant display of fireworks, dancing, and rustic amusements followed, and the company did not separate till an early hour in the following morning.

Prof Gavin Foster of Concordia University, Montreal, Canada, will be in the Carlow / Dublin during the first week in July, he is interested in interviewing people who had relatives involved in Ireland's Civil War, 1922 - 1924, or who may have stories, documents, pictures etc. concerning the period. Please contact me if you are interested in this project. Prof. Gavin Foster. Gavin Foster (PhD, University of Notre Dame, 2009) is an historian of modern Ireland whose work has focused on the interaction between republicanism, political violence, social conflict, social status, and popular culture in the Irish revolution, specifically its final civil war phase c. 1922-23. His work has appeared in Field Day Review, History Ireland, Saothar: Journal of the Irish Labour History Society, Éire-Ireland: Journal of Irish Studies, and New Hibernia Review. He also serves as the History Reviews Editor for the Canadian Journal of Irish Studies. Along with modern Irish history and Irish Studies, Gavin’s current scholarly interests encompass memory studies, oral history, nationalism, respectability, the social and political meanings of clothing, labour history, and migration studies. Gavin currently has a cross-appointment with Concordia’s History Department for the purpose of supervising history MA and PhD students. He also works with graduate students in the interdisciplinary SIP and Humanities programs.

I have received information on Joseph Malone's wife, which I have accepted as the researchers were reputable, but I have never seen supporting evidence. His wife is reported to have been Alicia, or Alice, WYLY and also reported quite precisely is that she was born at Ally Cantal, Auvergne, France. Their children commence after 1823 so the marriage would have been in the 1820s. All the Malone family ceremonies took place at St Mary's COI Rathvilly but I do not know if that is where this marriage occurred. If this information is correct, I suppose that she could come from a Huguenot family but I thought that the Huguenot arrivals in Ireland were much earlier than this. From these unattributed sources I have an exact birth date, 24 June 1804, and she died 03 December 1851, buried two days later at Rathvilly. Perhaps her birth date was on the gravestone. Can anyone cast any light on this WYLY family please? Bill -----Original Message----- From: Bill [mailto:wbwebster@internode.on.net] Sent: Monday, 17 June 2013 10:49 AM To: 'irl-carlow@rootsweb.com' Subject: RE: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Amended transcription. Thank you for the extremely rare mention of my ancestor, Joseph Malone (1792-1866), farmer and mill owner of Rathmore. This family never seemed to get involved in politics of the time but here he is. He was a tenant of Kane Bunbury in Griffiths and is covered in Turtle's histories at http://www.turtlebunbury.com/family/bunburyfamily_lisnavagh/CaptainWillMcCB/ bunburyfamily_lisnavagh_captainwill18471852.html a bit over half way down the page. Bill -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow Sent: Sunday, 16 June 2013 5:03 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Amended transcription. Here is amended transcription for 1835 document, please disregard previous posting, sorry about the confusion. >From P.P.P. Document in T.C. Butler legal papers. Grand Jury sworn in at Carlow Sessions held on Saturday 4th April 1835 to enquire, with rigid impartiality, before The Carlow Borough Registry, into eligibility of persons to hold a franchise to vote at Elections in and for the County of Carlow. Chairman - Samuel Robinson, Esquire, Gentleman. Lawyer. Assistant Barrister - James Bessonett, Esquire, Gentleman. Recorder - Thomas Crawford Butler, Esquire, Attorney. Barristers - Mr. Hayes, Esquire, Barrister ; Mr Berwick, Esquire, Barrister. Henry Carey, Foreman ; Benjamin Bunbury, Thomas Elliot, Samuel Haughton, William Galbraith, George Anderson, James Kehoe, Thomas Donoghoe, Patrick Finn, William O' Neill, James Smith, Thomas Maher, James Lalor, William Bernard, John Curran, Patrick Kehoe. Witnesses - Sir Thomas Butler, Bart., Major Cornwall, Colonel Bruen, Captain Vignoles, Mr. Alexander, rep. John Alexander, the elder, John Alexander, the younger, Guilelmus Earl, George Faircloth, George Crofton, Henry Faulkiner, George W. Colcough, James Hardy Eustace, Thomas Watson, Samuel Watson, Robert Browne, William Galbraith,Thomas C. Bunbury, Patrick Hickey, Patrick Neill, Thomas Nolan, Peter Nowlan, Simon Hennesy, James Ruddick, James Clowry, John Clowry, John Crowe, James Butler, Archibold Sly, Michael Nolan, Joseph Malone, Michael Hennessy, Patrick Byrne, Thomas Murphy, John McDaniel, George Rigney, Owen Cummins, Patrick Kinsella, Hugh Cummins, John Kinsella, John Byrne. George Colcough, John Leonard, Timothy Murphy, Thomas Wynne. Popish priests - T.Tyrrell, J.Cummins, J.Gahon, J.Walsh. J.Maher. T. Kehoe.

I have no idea why the date May 12th appears attached to this report, possibly the case was adjourned from the Sessions sitting in May to the August Sessions ?. On 19 June 2013 18:13, Friend of Carlow <friendsofcarlowtempe@gmail.com>wrote: > [ note added 2013 - not sure why the dates differ on this report, Mick > might throw some light on this when he returns ] > Carlow Sentinel. > 17th August 1850. > Carlow Petty Sessions - Monday - May 12th. > ASSAULT. > Patrick Hughes was charged by Edward Nolan and Daniel Moore with having on > the evening of the 5th instant, assaulted them. > The plaintiff proved the charge, which was corroborated by a man named > Bowles. > The mother of the defendant appeared and after ably cross-examining the > plaintiffs, exhibited a shirt covered with blood, caused by the blows which > the plaintiffs inflicted on her son, the defendant, from the effects of > which he was then unable to attend. > The Bench ordered the defendant to be imprisoned one fortnight for each > offence. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Bill, nice to know we were of help, Mick is posting more on Joseph Malone later today. We are first submitting our transcription to him for comment. On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Bill <wbwebster@internode.on.net> wrote: > Thank you for the extremely rare mention of my ancestor, Joseph Malone > (1792-1866), farmer and mill owner of Rathmore. > > This family never seemed to get involved in politics of the time but here > he > is. He was a tenant of Kane Bunbury in Griffiths and is covered in > Turtle's > histories at > > http://www.turtlebunbury.com/family/bunburyfamily_lisnavagh/CaptainWillMcCB/ > bunburyfamily_lisnavagh_captainwill18471852.html a bit over half way down > the page. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow > Sent: Sunday, 16 June 2013 5:03 AM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Amended transcription. > > Here is amended transcription for 1835 document, please disregard previous > posting, sorry about the confusion. > >From P.P.P. > Document in T.C. Butler legal papers. > Grand Jury sworn in at Carlow Sessions held on Saturday 4th April 1835 to > enquire, with rigid impartiality, before The Carlow Borough Registry, into > eligibility of persons to hold a franchise to vote at Elections in and for > the County of Carlow. > Chairman - Samuel Robinson, Esquire, Gentleman. Lawyer. > Assistant Barrister - James Bessonett, Esquire, Gentleman. > Recorder - Thomas Crawford Butler, Esquire, Attorney. > Barristers - Mr. Hayes, Esquire, Barrister ; Mr Berwick, Esquire, > Barrister. > Henry Carey, Foreman ; Benjamin Bunbury, Thomas Elliot, Samuel Haughton, > William Galbraith, George Anderson, James Kehoe, Thomas Donoghoe, Patrick > Finn, William O' Neill, James Smith, Thomas Maher, James Lalor, William > Bernard, John Curran, Patrick Kehoe. > Witnesses - Sir Thomas Butler, Bart., Major Cornwall, Colonel Bruen, > Captain > Vignoles, Mr. Alexander, rep. John Alexander, the elder, John Alexander, > the younger, Guilelmus Earl, George Faircloth, George Crofton, Henry > Faulkiner, George W. Colcough, James Hardy Eustace, Thomas Watson, Samuel > Watson, Robert Browne, William Galbraith,Thomas C. Bunbury, Patrick Hickey, > Patrick Neill, Thomas Nolan, Peter Nowlan, Simon Hennesy, James Ruddick, > James Clowry, John Clowry, John Crowe, James Butler, Archibold Sly, Michael > Nolan, Joseph Malone, Michael Hennessy, Patrick Byrne, Thomas Murphy, John > McDaniel, George Rigney, Owen Cummins, Patrick Kinsella, Hugh Cummins, John > Kinsella, John Byrne. George Colcough, John Leonard, Timothy Murphy, Thomas > Wynne. > Popish priests - T.Tyrrell, J.Cummins, J.Gahon, J.Walsh. J.Maher. T. Kehoe. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

[ note added by Michael Purcell 2013 --- abbreviated extract of Session held to determine if Simon Hennessy of Grangeforth, Michael Nolan of Grangeforth and Pat Byrne of Ballytarsna, County Carlow, own lands worth over a certain amount and therefore are entitled to hold a franchise to vote. Here Thomas Bunbury, John Clowry and Joseph Malone deliver evidence. ] Carlow Sentinel. April 1835. The Sessions was well attended by the gentry Conservatives. The Radicals ( agitators ) had their witnesses in training to swear each other into the franchise . Mr Hayes, Barrister, attended specially on the part of the Conservatives and Mr Berwick, Barrister, attended on the part of the Radical agitators. The Chairman was Samuel Robinson," he was greeted by several gentlemen on this his first appearance in Carlow in his official capacity, and from his courteous demeanour, urbanity of manners, and experience as a lawyer, will we have no doubt, give general satisfaction". Simon Hennessy of Grangeforth, applied for franchise to vote, stated he was the tenant of James Hardy Eustace, Esquire, and held 28 acres of land at Grangeforth he swore the land was worth 46 shillings per acre. John Nolan swore it was worth this sum per acre, in answer to Mr Hayes, John Nolan stated he held no land but that he was purely a volunteer to serve his neighbours, and held them obtain a franchise. Another witness, Michael Nolan, a Tailor, who held but four acres of land swore that Hennessy's farm was worth £10. Mr Hayes asked - how much rent does Hennessy pay ?, Nolan replied - I can't tell. Mr Hayes then challenged him asking -- How can you swear it is worth £10 if you don't know that ?. This Witness was turned away. The next witness was Mr Thomas Bunbury he was examined by Mr Berwick. In evidence Thomas Bunbury stated that he was positive that Hennessy made £20 a year over the rent expenditure of his farm because he is a very industrious man. Mr Hayes -- How much rent does he pay ? Mr Bunbury -- I can't immediately say. Mr Hayes -- Then how can you answer Mr Berwick's question so flippantly ?. [ further questioning by Mr Hayes discredited Mr Bunbury's evidence ]. Mr Joseph Malone was examined as to the value of Hennessy's farm, and in his role as being High Constable of the Barony, was well acquainted with the land -- Mr Malone stated that the utmost value any person could set upon the lands was 40 shillings per acre. Mr P. Mosse was next witness and as Tithe Commissioner he agreed with Mr Malone's assessment of 40 shillings. The application by Simon Hennessy was dismissed. Michael Nolan of Grangeforth next applied for franchise to vote, stating he was the owner of a thatched cabin and four acres at Grangeforth, he swore the land was worth £4 per acre. A host of witnesses swore point blank to this fact. Mr Hayes asked Nolan --- Do you have any other witnesses as to the value ?. Michael Nolan replied -- " Oh yes , Mr Bunbury" -- ( Loud laughter ). The Sessions immediately rejected Nolan's claim. Pat Byrne of Ballytarsna, was next called, he swore his land was worth 46 shillings per acre. John Clowry, one of the leading valuators for the agitators, said the land was worth 48 shillings per acre. Mr Clowry underwent a severe cross-examination by Mr Hayes. Henry Faulkiner, Esquire, stated that Brynes land was rocky and said it was worth no more than 40 shillings per acre. The application by Pat Byrne was dismissed.

[ note added 2013 - not sure why the dates differ on this report, Mick might throw some light on this when he returns ] Carlow Sentinel. 17th August 1850. Carlow Petty Sessions - Monday - May 12th. ASSAULT. Patrick Hughes was charged by Edward Nolan and Daniel Moore with having on the evening of the 5th instant, assaulted them. The plaintiff proved the charge, which was corroborated by a man named Bowles. The mother of the defendant appeared and after ably cross-examining the plaintiffs, exhibited a shirt covered with blood, caused by the blows which the plaintiffs inflicted on her son, the defendant, from the effects of which he was then unable to attend. The Bench ordered the defendant to be imprisoned one fortnight for each offence.

Thanks Mick, Slightly confusing - or do you think TCB's first wife died in 1835 and he married again the same year? Thanks to all of you who came to the History Festival also - I hope you enjoyed it, despite the cold on Sunday and the occasional technical hitch. Please let us know how you think we can improve on it for 2014. All best for now, Turtle On 14 Jun 2013, at 18:17, Michael Purcell wrote: > On a note in the PPP it states " Thomas Crawford Butler's wife died in > Dublin 1835". > On the Carlow Sentinel dated December 1835 it states :- > At Timolin church, on the 2nd of December 1835, Thomas Crawford Butler of > Rose Ville, Carlow married Lavinia Sophia Yates, eldest daughter of > Benedict Arthur Yates of Moone Abbey, Kildare. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just in case anybody else has wondered about uploading data from FTDNA to 23andme, the answer is a no no. See below for the answer to my query - I just wish I understood it all!!. Bryan Caroline, Jun 17 07:19 am (PDT): Hello Bryan, Thank you for contacting the 23andMe Team. At this time it is not possible to upload genetic data from other ancestry services into a 23andMe account for the purpose of comparison. The technology that we use, the Illumina OmniExpress Plus, analyzes approximately 1,000,000 SNPs that cover the entire genome. Although this is still only a fraction of the more than 10 million SNPs that are estimated to be in the human genome, these 1,000,000 are specially selected because they provide a lot of information about other nearby SNPs. In addition, we have hand-picked more than 30,000 additional SNPs of particular interest from the scientific literature and added them to the chip. As a result, we can provide you with unique, genetic information available through no other service. 23andMe probes the mitochondrial DNA at more than 2000 positions that are known to vary from one person to the next. This level of resolution is less detailed than full sequencing of all 16,569 base pairs in the mitochondrial genome. 23andMe's paternal ancestry tool analyzes SNPs, or single nucleotide polymorphisms on the Y chromosome, to extract information from DNA. Most genetic ancestry services, in contrast, analyze a different component of the Y chromosome, known as the STRs, for short tandem repeats, to reach their conclusions. The information provided by STRs and SNPs is not directly comparable. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance. Best Regards, The 23andMe Team