Re. "Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator." Sue, the Carlow Sentinel newspaper reported the priest's name as Rev. J. Cummins, they might have been mistaken. On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Tanya Whitaker <tmmw025@gmail.com> wrote: > Found my error. Kilmyshal/Kilmeashall is the place referred to in Seamus > deVal's book, Bun Cloidi and I thought he had written that Kilmyshall was > in Ceatherlach at one time. However, when looking at the Down Survey map > in 1890, it is located in Scarawalsh area of Co Wexford. Seamus deVal > writes of Ceatherlach and Co Wexford history since both are connected with > the history of Bunclody. > > Tanya > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Clement [mailto:sneirish@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:18 AM > To: 'Tanya'; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. > > No there has always been a Myshall in Co. Carlow, and a Catholic parish > there for at least 200 years. > Sue C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:35 AM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. > > Isn't Myshall parish in co Wexford? It is down the road a bit from > Bunclody. Maybe back in 1835 it was in Co Carlow. That border area I > noticed was part of Ceatherlach on Down Survey 1670 map and in Seamus > deVal's Bun Cloidi book. > > Tanya > > > > > Sent from Samsung tabletMichael Purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> > wrote:Carlow Sentinel. > June 1835. > Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator. > Townland of Ullardbeg -- Several families were lately dispossessed of > those lands, including a noted agitator named Clowry, by Major Cornwall, > under circumstances already detailed to our readers ; taking Father > Prendergast's average dues -- a man who enriched himself at the expense of > his flock, his brother Priest of Myshall will lose Thirty Pounds annually. > Rathvilly Parish -- The Rev. John Gahan, P.P. and Agitator. > Haroldstown -- A Townland out of which Twenty nine families were lately > ejected, for non-payment of rent due for years, paid by the tenantry into > the pockets of agitators for electioneering purposes -- this is a loss to > the Reverend demagogue of Fifty Pounds annually. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Yes, I believe they must have been in error. There was only Rev. Laurence Cummins. Thanks, Sue -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 12:11 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. Re. "Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator." Sue, the Carlow Sentinel newspaper reported the priest's name as Rev. J. Cummins, they might have been mistaken. On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Tanya Whitaker <tmmw025@gmail.com> wrote: > Found my error. Kilmyshal/Kilmeashall is the place referred to in > Seamus deVal's book, Bun Cloidi and I thought he had written that > Kilmyshall was in Ceatherlach at one time. However, when looking at > the Down Survey map in 1890, it is located in Scarawalsh area of Co > Wexford. Seamus deVal writes of Ceatherlach and Co Wexford history > since both are connected with the history of Bunclody. > > Tanya > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Clement [mailto:sneirish@comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:18 AM > To: 'Tanya'; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. > > No there has always been a Myshall in Co. Carlow, and a Catholic > parish there for at least 200 years. > Sue C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:35 AM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. > > Isn't Myshall parish in co Wexford? It is down the road a bit from > Bunclody. Maybe back in 1835 it was in Co Carlow. That border area I > noticed was part of Ceatherlach on Down Survey 1670 map and in Seamus > deVal's Bun Cloidi book. > > Tanya > > > > > Sent from Samsung tabletMichael Purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> > wrote:Carlow Sentinel. > June 1835. > Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator. > Townland of Ullardbeg -- Several families were lately dispossessed of > those lands, including a noted agitator named Clowry, by Major > Cornwall, under circumstances already detailed to our readers ; taking > Father Prendergast's average dues -- a man who enriched himself at the > expense of his flock, his brother Priest of Myshall will lose Thirty Pounds annually. > Rathvilly Parish -- The Rev. John Gahan, P.P. and Agitator. > Haroldstown -- A Townland out of which Twenty nine families were > lately ejected, for non-payment of rent due for years, paid by the > tenantry into the pockets of agitators for electioneering purposes -- > this is a loss to the Reverend demagogue of Fifty Pounds annually. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Delighted to hear it Charlie, well done. Turtle Bunbury www.turtlebunbury.com Check out Turtle's latest project here - www.facebook.com/Wistorical Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland Mob: + 353 - (0) 87 - 6453 486 Skype: turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury On 28 Jun 2013, at 18:13, C Donohue wrote: > Just want to once again say a big thank you to Michael Brennan, > Michael > Purcell, Sue Clement, Turtle and all others who contribute so much > valuable > and interesting information to this site. After many years of > searching and > some help from Sue, I managed to find some RC church records for my > Donohoe > family Thomas and wife Hanora Mahan. I have since made contact with > Donohoe family but would also like to make contact with the Mahan > family if > at all possible. The Donohoe's came to Canada c 1847 with three > children, > setting out with 4. All apparently lived in townland of Raheenleigh. > > Thanks again and hope not imposing here Michael but any info would > be most > welcome. > Charlie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message
Hi Mick The 45th Annual Dinner is Saturday 26th October http://www.carlowassociation.co.uk/our-45th-annual-dinner-is-saturday-26th-october/ Regards Michael Brennan County Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm
I have recently completed a couple of linked posts. In the first, I describe a visit to St. Mary's Church of Ireland <http://www.thechurch.ie/history.aspx> in Dublin, the parish church just north of the Liffey where lots of Jacksons from the mid-1700s attended. It is now the Church Bar & Restaurant <http://www.thechurch.ie/>. SEE: http://sharonoddiebrown.blogspot.ca/2013/07/stones-can-talk-part-i.html and http://sharonoddiebrown.blogspot.ca/2013/07/stones-can-talk-part-ii.html In the first post, I have also included a transcription of a memorial to various WHITEHEADs, including Rev. John Thomas WHITESTONE, Rector of Killeven, Co. Monaghan (since he died in the church itself). In the second, a number of stones are transcribed, including one for Gorges Edmund HOWARD, a grandson of Capt. William JACKSON. It is worth bearing in mind that this church included parishioners that are more commonly associated with other Counties, even as far north as Derry. It also included parishioners whose ancestors would be included in the Scotch-Irish emigrants to America. In this context, it is worth noting that John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church, delivered his first Irish sermon here in 1747. As always, I am always curious to learn more, and if I have made errors, I do appreciate the chance to correct them. Please, just let me know, and I will get on to it. Sharon -- Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com
My latest post on my blog is about the family of JACKSONs who started in Kirby Lonsdale, Westmorland, and then emigrated to post-Cromwellian Coleraine, as well as to Armagh, Down, Antrim, Meath, Cavan, Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland http://sharonoddiebrown.blogspot.ca/2013/06/woof-part-one.html This is the earliest known start of a line of JACKSONs that subsequently emigrated not only to Ireland, but also to America in the pre-Civil War days. My hope was to give the flavour of their lives in the mid-1600s. At the end, are links to their family tree, the timeline of their time in Colerane, as well as some of the resources that were helpful to me in putting their story together. One of the costs of working solo, as I do, is that I often miss mistakes that I have made, some of which are obvious. I always appreciate a heads up and the chance to correct my errors. Thanks, and enjoy, Sharon -- Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: www.thesilverbowl.com
From: John Nolan Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:08 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: 'CARLOW SPECIAL' Radio broadcast from 'Shay down under' Hi All As you all know 2013 is the year of 'The Gathering' - when emigrants, friends and members of our Irish Diaspora are being welcomed home to Ireland to visit family and buddies from old. Carlow is holding its place well here and we'd like to thank Carlow County Council and Carlow Town Council for the fantastic 'Carlow Gathering' event they organised recently as part of the Eigse festival. The twinned communities, emigrant organisations here in the UK as well as the civil authorities and their officers made the gathering a special celebration. Congratulations to all involved. Of course the gathering is an ongoing story around the world as our emigrant organisations arrange meet-ups, get-togethers and social events that celebrate all that's good about Carlow, its people and its culture. One particular 'gathering with a difference' was played out over the airwaves during the week by Hacketstown man Seamus 'Shay' Byrne from his base in Hill Top in the Southern Highland of New South Wales. Shay broadcasts live via Woddie's Country Radio and a podcast of his show can be listened into here at http://shaydownunder.podbean.com/2013/06/25/carlow-special/ Check it out, you'll love it. We in the Carlow Association London were proud to be part of it and great to have Eileen Brophy of Carlow Tourism and Dermot Mulligan of Carlow Museum telling us what's in store when we get over there to Carlow. Great to hear such familiar place names mentioned together with Carlow's various establishments all intermixed with music from our home county. Enjoy listening - its 2 hrs well spent - and don't forget to post your comments in the comments box on his page. I know Shay would be delighted to read them. And remember his Email address is shaydownunder@gmail.com for your requests. Shay, you've down us proud. Well done in keeping the flame lit. As Shay says he is looking forward to other emigrant county groups making contact and starting a trend. John Connolly, What do you think ?? I think this is something the CICA should consider. Another good friend of ours is Davy Dwyer of Barrowriiver Beat podcasting from Bagenalstown on http://barrowriverbeat.podbean.com/ as he says "on the beautiful banks of the River Barrow". Don't be afraid to email Davy on barrowriverbeatradio@gmail.com with your requests and special messages. Meanwhile back here in London we in the Carlow Association London have a busy Autumn ahead and remind you to save Saturday 26th October in your diary for our 45th Annual Dinner. Our '45th' is being held in the Crown Moran Hotel in Cricklewood - a venue well known in song and story and made famous by The Dubliners in 'McAlpines Fusiliers'. We've got some special surprises in store as well as guests visiting from Carlow. It'll be a mighty craic! Our special guest is London Rose of Tralee, Grace Kenny, a Crawley Girl with roots in Tullow and a great supporter of our association here in London. If you are planning on travelling over please make contact as we've got some interesting stuff being put in place for the weekend. You'll really like it. If you have friends or family members just settled here in London please forward this email on as we would love to meet up. Best regards agus slán go foill..... John *************** John Nolan Carlow Association London www.carlowassociationlondon.co.uk M: 07956 317492 H: 01293 513189 FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/pages/Carlow-Association-London/53935032263
Message from John Nolan, Carlow Association in London. Meanwhile back here in London we in the *Carlow Association London* have a busy Autumn ahead and remind you to save Saturday 26th October in your diary for our 45th Annual Dinner. Our '45th' is being held in the Crown Moran Hotel in Cricklewood - a venue well known in song and story and made famous by The Dubliners in 'McAlpines Fusiliers'. We've got some special surprises in store as well as guests visiting from Carlow. It'll be a mighty craic! Our special guest is London Rose of Tralee, Grace Kenny, a Crawley Girl with roots in Tullow and a great supporter of our association here in London. If you are planning on travelling over please make contact as we've got some interesting stuff being put in place for the weekend. You'll really like it. If you have friends or family members just settled here in London please forward this email on as we would love to meet up.
Tanya, the Baptism and Marriage records that I have for the Methodist Church in Carlow commence circa 1890 and coincide with the opening of the new church on the Athy Road, there may be other records of meetings etc. but I have not seen them. Possibly other readers might help, I will contact a member of the congregation and let you know. In the meantime check out the link below, mick. Carlow Methodist Church - RootsWeb - Ancestry.com<http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/Carlow_Methodist.htm> www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/*Carlow*_*Methodist*.htm View shared postExactly how *Methodism* came to *Carlow* is not known but that there were *Methodists* in the town before 1765 is certain. There are two ways in which *Methodism* *...* On 11 May 2013 21:05, Tanya Whitaker <tmmw025@gmail.com> wrote: > How does one get access to all of the Carlow Circuit Methodist Church > records? Is there an online link to them? My x2 great granduncle, Thomas > Rathwell/Rothwell was a preacher for the Methodist Church in Co Carlow in > the mid 1800's to early 1900's and was hoping to access the church records > of County. Some of his family were probably baptized, married there and > would like to see if there are any family records. I am not sure of the > name of the church he was a minister, however if there is a database for > all > of the Methodist churches in Co Carlow I might find some new church related > records. > > Tanya > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 2:14 PM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] John George Glover to Annie Farley. > > The obituary was posted by Michael Purcell. We have the records for the > Carlow Circuit of the Methodist Church and will post the Glover entries for > you in the next few days, Grace. > > > On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Michelle Wilson > <micpaint.wilson@gmail.com>wrote: > > > Yes, someone sent it to me last wek. Thanks so much to all of you > > that come to my rescue on things like this. I never knew him since he > > died in Ireland but when I was very young I spent part of my summers > > with "Aunt Annie, her daughter "Bessie" and Bessie's two girls Muriel > > and Sheila. I always had such fun. > > Michelle > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Friend of Carlow" <friendsofcarlowtempe@gmail.com> > > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 9:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] John George Glover to Annie Farley. > > > > > > > Michelle, did you spot the obituary for John Glover ?, he was a > > > member of the Methodist Church Congregation in Carlow. > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Michelle Wilson > > > <micpaint.wilson@gmail.com > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> Thank you so much Michhael > > >> Michelle > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Michael Purcell" <carlowmike@gmail.com> > > >> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > > >> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 5:54 AM > > >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] John George Glover to Annie Farley. > > >> > > >> > > >> > John Glover, Writing Clerk, married Annie Farley, Charlotte > > >> > Street, 25th September 1884. > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------- > > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > >> > without > > the > > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
this is email address for CarlowIGP site....introduce yourself as member of Hadden family, researching same ( that rules out paid researchers looking for help or shortcuts for info they will charge another for !, ), give names, townlands, county, years, express interest in photos etc. You could start with that advert from 1957 Carlovina and later add any other interesting bits and pieces. It could be weeks or months before you get a response, just hope for the best. irl-carlow@rootsweb.com On 28 June 2013 15:56, Avril Hogan <avrilhogan@gmail.com> wrote: > Avril Hogan (Hadden) > > Avril > >
Abbreviated transcription from a long account of property transaction on faded parchment in the PPP. The present-day location of the property is the offices of Carlow County Council. Indenture 1762. This Indenture made the fourteenth day of July in the Second Year of the Reign of our Sovereign and Chief Lord, George, King, and so Forth, of the Kingdom of Ireland, between the Honourable Arthur Dawson, of Athy Street in the County of Catherlough, and the Court of the Exchequer in Ireland, Dublin, Esquire, one of the Barons of our Lord the King of the one part and Henry Bunbury, of the same, Esquire, one of our Justices of the Peace of our Lord the King, of the other part. Witnessed here that in consideration of the yearly Rent and Covenants herein mentioned to lett the house, outoffices and garden adjoining, situate on Athy Street, in the Town and County of Catherlough, bounded on the West by the River Barrow walk, on the East by Athy Street, on the North by Gurley's Plotts and on the South by Dobbyn's and Proctor's Holding. ALL THAT TO HAVE AND TO HOLD ALL THAT herein mentioned for and during the Reign of our said Lord the King, by the said Henry Bunbury, his Executors, Administrators, and Assigns, the said House and the Ground adjoining commencing the twentyfirst day of July in the Second Year of the Reign of our said Lord the King. (signed) George Dawson, Bart. Henry Bunbury, Esquire, J.P. Witnessed this the Fourteenth Day of July in the Second Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord the King, (signed) Walter Carmichael, Clerk for Catherlough, James Jackson, Assistant Clerk.
That is fantastic that you have connected, Charlie! There is nothing like chatting with your family back in the "olde country." And lots of wonderful friends, too, of course! Happy searching, Sue -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of C Donohue Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 1:14 PM To: IRL Carlow Cc: Michael Brennan; Bob Topley Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Myshall Parish. and name Mahah Just want to once again say a big thank you to Michael Brennan, Michael Purcell, Sue Clement, Turtle and all others who contribute so much valuable and interesting information to this site. After many years of searching and some help from Sue, I managed to find some RC church records for my Donohoe family Thomas and wife Hanora Mahan. I have since made contact with Donohoe family but would also like to make contact with the Mahan family if at all possible. The Donohoe's came to Canada c 1847 with three children, setting out with 4. All apparently lived in townland of Raheenleigh. Thanks again and hope not imposing here Michael but any info would be most welcome. Charlie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Just want to once again say a big thank you to Michael Brennan, Michael Purcell, Sue Clement, Turtle and all others who contribute so much valuable and interesting information to this site. After many years of searching and some help from Sue, I managed to find some RC church records for my Donohoe family Thomas and wife Hanora Mahan. I have since made contact with Donohoe family but would also like to make contact with the Mahan family if at all possible. The Donohoe's came to Canada c 1847 with three children, setting out with 4. All apparently lived in townland of Raheenleigh. Thanks again and hope not imposing here Michael but any info would be most welcome. Charlie
Found my error. Kilmyshal/Kilmeashall is the place referred to in Seamus deVal's book, Bun Cloidi and I thought he had written that Kilmyshall was in Ceatherlach at one time. However, when looking at the Down Survey map in 1890, it is located in Scarawalsh area of Co Wexford. Seamus deVal writes of Ceatherlach and Co Wexford history since both are connected with the history of Bunclody. Tanya -----Original Message----- From: Sue Clement [mailto:sneirish@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:18 AM To: 'Tanya'; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. No there has always been a Myshall in Co. Carlow, and a Catholic parish there for at least 200 years. Sue C. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:35 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. Isn't Myshall parish in co Wexford? It is down the road a bit from Bunclody. Maybe back in 1835 it was in Co Carlow. That border area I noticed was part of Ceatherlach on Down Survey 1670 map and in Seamus deVal's Bun Cloidi book. Tanya Sent from Samsung tabletMichael Purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> wrote:Carlow Sentinel. June 1835. Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator. Townland of Ullardbeg -- Several families were lately dispossessed of those lands, including a noted agitator named Clowry, by Major Cornwall, under circumstances already detailed to our readers ; taking Father Prendergast's average dues -- a man who enriched himself at the expense of his flock, his brother Priest of Myshall will lose Thirty Pounds annually. Rathvilly Parish -- The Rev. John Gahan, P.P. and Agitator. Haroldstown -- A Townland out of which Twenty nine families were lately ejected, for non-payment of rent due for years, paid by the tenantry into the pockets of agitators for electioneering purposes -- this is a loss to the Reverend demagogue of Fifty Pounds annually. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Carlow Sentinel. June 1835. Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator. Townland of Ullardbeg -- Several families were lately dispossessed of those lands, including a noted agitator named Clowry, by Major Cornwall, under circumstances already detailed to our readers ; taking Father Prendergast's average dues -- a man who enriched himself at the expense of his flock, his brother Priest of Myshall will lose Thirty Pounds annually. Rathvilly Parish -- The Rev. John Gahan, P.P. and Agitator. Haroldstown -- A Townland out of which Twenty nine families were lately ejected, for non-payment of rent due for years, paid by the tenantry into the pockets of agitators for electioneering purposes -- this is a loss to the Reverend demagogue of Fifty Pounds annually.
No there has always been a Myshall in Co. Carlow, and a Catholic parish there for at least 200 years. Sue C. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:35 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. Isn't Myshall parish in co Wexford? It is down the road a bit from Bunclody. Maybe back in 1835 it was in Co Carlow. That border area I noticed was part of Ceatherlach on Down Survey 1670 map and in Seamus deVal's Bun Cloidi book. Tanya Sent from Samsung tabletMichael Purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> wrote:Carlow Sentinel. June 1835. Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator. Townland of Ullardbeg -- Several families were lately dispossessed of those lands, including a noted agitator named Clowry, by Major Cornwall, under circumstances already detailed to our readers ; taking Father Prendergast's average dues -- a man who enriched himself at the expense of his flock, his brother Priest of Myshall will lose Thirty Pounds annually. Rathvilly Parish -- The Rev. John Gahan, P.P. and Agitator. Haroldstown -- A Townland out of which Twenty nine families were lately ejected, for non-payment of rent due for years, paid by the tenantry into the pockets of agitators for electioneering purposes -- this is a loss to the Reverend demagogue of Fifty Pounds annually. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I don't know if this was an error in the paper or not, but this is the second transcription that has Rev. J. Cummins. It could just be a matter of indecipherable handwriting. The only Myshall P.P. at the time was Fr. Laurence Cummins of the Ullard Cummins family. His father was Peter/Piers Cummins, whose father was Marks Cummins. Marks Cummins was the brother of Terence Cummins who was the first known in Monemore/Kellistown. Fr. Laurence Cummins died 26 Dec 1838 and his death was recorded in the Myshall parish register. The Cummins were always in the middle of things, a rowdy and rebellious bunch, so I am not surprised Fr. Laurence would have been called an "agitator." Kind of proud to be related to them! >From "History of Ballon and Rathoe", Fr. Peadar Mac Suibhne: Pg. 101 - When the bell was hung in Myshall, it was rung by Fr. Cummins. This annoyed the bigots. Major Brady came down furious and ordered Fr. Cummins not to ring the bell. Fr. Cummins refused to obey and said there would be a bell ringing there that would be heard for miles around when there would not be the name of Brady. This from Miss Kate Kennedy, farmers, who lived over Myshall under Bradys. She had it from her father. Pg. 108-109 - KEARNEYS, SRAUGH. Uncle Jimmy Swain, Craanpursheen, 30 May, 1948. Vid. also Clowry cards. Fr. Laurence Cummins, P.P., Myshall, was born in Ullard. Friends of his owned Kearneys, Sraugh. Uncle Jimmy knew brothers of Fr. Cummins. One used to ride a fine tall horse to Tullow, a very fine man like a priest. Ter Cummins of Killane was connected with the big Cummins of Ullard. Ullard was willed to him. TITHE APPLOTMENTS: 1825, Coolsnaghta - Revd Laurence Cummins 1827, Myshall - Rev. Mr. Cummins ~ Sue C. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Michael Purcell Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:09 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1835,Clowry,Cummins,Cornwall.Gahan,Prendergast. Carlow Sentinel. June 1835. Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator. Townland of Ullardbeg -- Several families were lately dispossessed of those lands, including a noted agitator named Clowry, by Major Cornwall, under circumstances already detailed to our readers ; taking Father Prendergast's average dues -- a man who enriched himself at the expense of his flock, his brother Priest of Myshall will lose Thirty Pounds annually. Rathvilly Parish -- The Rev. John Gahan, P.P. and Agitator. Haroldstown -- A Townland out of which Twenty nine families were lately ejected, for non-payment of rent due for years, paid by the tenantry into the pockets of agitators for electioneering purposes -- this is a loss to the Reverend demagogue of Fifty Pounds annually. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Isn't Myshall parish in co Wexford? It is down the road a bit from Bunclody. Maybe back in 1835 it was in Co Carlow. That border area I noticed was part of Ceatherlach on Down Survey 1670 map and in Seamus deVal's Bun Cloidi book. Tanya Sent from Samsung tabletMichael Purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> wrote:Carlow Sentinel. June 1835. Myshall Parish -- The Rev. J. Cummins, P.P. and Agitator. Townland of Ullardbeg -- Several families were lately dispossessed of those lands, including a noted agitator named Clowry, by Major Cornwall, under circumstances already detailed to our readers ; taking Father Prendergast's average dues -- a man who enriched himself at the expense of his flock, his brother Priest of Myshall will lose Thirty Pounds annually. Rathvilly Parish -- The Rev. John Gahan, P.P. and Agitator. Haroldstown -- A Townland out of which Twenty nine families were lately ejected, for non-payment of rent due for years, paid by the tenantry into the pockets of agitators for electioneering purposes -- this is a loss to the Reverend demagogue of Fifty Pounds annually. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I am told if catholics have to swear on a Bible that unless it has the official Imprimatur of the Roman Catholic church then the oath is not legitimate or binding, the reasoning is that swearing to" tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God" on a Protestant bible that does not itself contain the whole truth invalidates the obligation to tell the truth or the need to honor any oath taken under such circumstances. It appears Fr. Maher's advice to his Graiguecullen parishioners was in line with the teaching of his church. > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:05:11 +0100 > From: carlowmike@gmail.com > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Edward Gorman. > > "Faith not kept with Heretics" ranks as church dogma alongside "Mental > Reservation", the ability to tell an untruth that may not regarded as a > lie" ( practiced in recent times by Cardinal Desmond Connell in a radio > interview ) and Swearing an Oath on a Protestant Bible is not binding or > regarded as perjury ( as advised by Father James Maher in the 1830s ), " > Faith not kept with Heretics" could be interpreted as giving your word of > honour to an infidel, heretic or unbeliever and not having to keep it ( > this was used in the1930s in a dispute with Browne-Clayton of Browne's > Hill , when a priest gave an undertaking that land donated for free and in > good faith by Browne-Clayton would be used for a school, the land was later > sold, the priest claimed that he did not have to keep faith with a > non-Catholic. ) > > On 27 June 2013 18:26, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I guess Mr Gorman made enemies fairly fast. it could have been any side > > that knocked him from his horse and beat him ?, > > "No Faith to be kept with Heretics" that was deep. > > I agree with Turtle, a brilliant saga, you are giving us a great insight > > into local politics in the 1830s. > > > > > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:08:38 +0100 > > > From: carlowmike@gmail.com > > > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Edward Gorman. > > > > > > the Carlow Sentinel 1836 "heretics" of course being the Roman > > > Catholics, who were ruled by 'the ungovernable ruffians who supported Mr > > > Thomas C. Bunbury', in 1835, what a twist !. > > > Back then a year was a long time in politics. > > > In a further twist, that musta stung, they used the term "Faith not kept > > > with Heretics" aimed at the voting catholics in Carlow, it was first > > > introduced during the Crusades and reinforced by the Roman Catholic > > > Church as dogma during several church Councils dating back to 1167 !. > > > > > > On 27 June 2013 17:21, Turtle Bunbury (History) <turtlehistory@gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > > > What a brilliant and ever-thickening plot! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Turtle Bunbury > > > > www.turtlebunbury.com > > > > www.facebook.com/Wistorical > > > > www.amazon.com/Turtle-Bunbury/e/B001ITXQEY > > > > > > > > Listen to Turtle's Hidden Histories on Newstalk every Tuesday morning > > at > > > > 9:45am. > > > > > > > > Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > > > > Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 > > Skype: > > > > turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Jun 2013, at 16:42, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > > > > > > > In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for > > Coroner, > > > > > Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr > > Kavanagh and > > > > > the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went > > > > forward > > > > > for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to > > give > > > > > him his support. > > > > > The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 > > > > which > > > > > reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go > > > > unpunished". > > > > > Carlow Sentinel. > > > > > June 1836. > > > > > SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. > > > > > Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the > > > > > Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help > > elect Mr > > > > > Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental > > > > > qualifications are concerned. > > > > > Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it > > went in > > > > Mr > > > > > Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote > > for > > > > Mr > > > > > Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. > > > > > Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his > > house, > > > > and > > > > > never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, > > Mr > > > > > Kavanagh. > > > > > How true it is that in all the relations of life -- > > > > > "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" > > > > > This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be > > found > > > > on > > > > > the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary > > > > warning > > > > > to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow > > > > > favours.-- > > > > > Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and > > shamefully > > > > > neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future > > he > > > > > will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for > > support. He > > > > > can expect none from any other quarter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his > > > > >> election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and > > > > beaten" > > > > >> you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was > > > > >> attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, > > > > >> Ron. > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > > > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
"Faith not kept with Heretics" ranks as church dogma alongside "Mental Reservation", the ability to tell an untruth that may not regarded as a lie" ( practiced in recent times by Cardinal Desmond Connell in a radio interview ) and Swearing an Oath on a Protestant Bible is not binding or regarded as perjury ( as advised by Father James Maher in the 1830s ), " Faith not kept with Heretics" could be interpreted as giving your word of honour to an infidel, heretic or unbeliever and not having to keep it ( this was used in the1930s in a dispute with Browne-Clayton of Browne's Hill , when a priest gave an undertaking that land donated for free and in good faith by Browne-Clayton would be used for a school, the land was later sold, the priest claimed that he did not have to keep faith with a non-Catholic. ) On 27 June 2013 18:26, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> wrote: > I guess Mr Gorman made enemies fairly fast. it could have been any side > that knocked him from his horse and beat him ?, > "No Faith to be kept with Heretics" that was deep. > I agree with Turtle, a brilliant saga, you are giving us a great insight > into local politics in the 1830s. > > > Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:08:38 +0100 > > From: carlowmike@gmail.com > > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Edward Gorman. > > > > the Carlow Sentinel 1836 "heretics" of course being the Roman > > Catholics, who were ruled by 'the ungovernable ruffians who supported Mr > > Thomas C. Bunbury', in 1835, what a twist !. > > Back then a year was a long time in politics. > > In a further twist, that musta stung, they used the term "Faith not kept > > with Heretics" aimed at the voting catholics in Carlow, it was first > > introduced during the Crusades and reinforced by the Roman Catholic > > Church as dogma during several church Councils dating back to 1167 !. > > > > On 27 June 2013 17:21, Turtle Bunbury (History) <turtlehistory@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > > > What a brilliant and ever-thickening plot! > > > > > > > > > > > > Turtle Bunbury > > > www.turtlebunbury.com > > > www.facebook.com/Wistorical > > > www.amazon.com/Turtle-Bunbury/e/B001ITXQEY > > > > > > Listen to Turtle's Hidden Histories on Newstalk every Tuesday morning > at > > > 9:45am. > > > > > > Oldfort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > > > Mob: + 353 (0) 87 6453 486 Office: +353 (0) 5991 80559 > Skype: > > > turtle1847 www.facebook.com/turtle.bunbury > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Jun 2013, at 16:42, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > > > > > In 1835 having defeated Thomas C. Bunbury in the election for > Coroner, > > > > Edward Gorman ( a catholic ) was elected with the help of Mr > Kavanagh and > > > > the other gentry of the county, the following year Mr Kavanagh went > > > forward > > > > for election to the British Parliament but Edward Gorman refused to > give > > > > him his support. > > > > The Carlow Sentinel turned on Gorman, here is a report from June 1836 > > > which > > > > reminds me of me auld uncle's saying " no good deed should go > > > unpunished". > > > > Carlow Sentinel. > > > > June 1836. > > > > SHAMEFUL INGRATITUDE. - MR EDWARD GORMAN. > > > > Our readers will recollect that in the period of the contest for the > > > > Coronership of this county every gentleman came forward to help > elect Mr > > > > Edward Gorman, who had nothing to recommend him so far as mental > > > > qualifications are concerned. > > > > Mr Kavanagh turned the election against Thomas C. Bunbury and it > went in > > > Mr > > > > Gorman's favour, by sending his tenantry AT HIS OWN EXPENSE to vote > for > > > Mr > > > > Gorman, and even travelled to Carlow himself to vote for him. > > > > Behold reader, Mr Gorman's gratitude ; he locked himself in his > house, > > > and > > > > never came forward to support by his vote, his generous benefactor, > Mr > > > > Kavanagh. > > > > How true it is that in all the relations of life -- > > > > "NO FAITH IS TO BE KEPT WITH HERETICS" > > > > This is one of the most melancholy instances of ingratitude to be > found > > > on > > > > the records of contested elections, and will operate as a salutary > > > warning > > > > to the gentry of this county, on whom they should in future bestow > > > > favours.-- > > > > Mr Gorman's brothers also absented themselves from voting and > shamefully > > > > neglected their duty -- the Coroner is a public officer -- in future > he > > > > will have to look to the Tinryland priest, Thomas Tyrrell for > support. He > > > > can expect none from any other quarter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 June 2013 22:48, ron medulison <ron_medulison@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> I am intrigued by your comment that in 1835 the year following his > > > >> election as coroner Edward Gorman was "knocked from his horse and > > > beaten" > > > >> you say it had to do with election issues, do you know why he was > > > >> attacked, was Mr Bunbury involved ?, > > > >> Ron. > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the > > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >