OMG I hope they are not the original documents. Any idea how they could have been mislaid ? On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Michael Purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com>wrote: > Turtle and readers, we are missing a file of approx.100 Bunbury papers, > dating back to 1600s, about 40 of them have been transcribed and posted on > this site, if any reader should learn where they now are please let me > know, mick. > > > On 20 August 2013 12:51, Turtle Bunbury (History) > <turtlehistory@gmail.com>wrote: > > > Thanks for this Michael. Hopefully see you over the course of Carlow 800 > > shenanigans. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Aug 2013, at 11:06, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > > > Carlow General Quarter Sessions held at Carlow Court House, Burrin > Street > > > on the 6th day of October 1796. > > > A Kallender of Prisoners left in the custody of Philip Newton, Esquire. > > > High Sheriff of Carlow County until they perform the Rules and pay the > > fees > > > respectively annexed to their names. > > > Edward Byrne who was found guilty at the last Sessions on two > Indictments > > > fined two marks and to give Security to keep the Peace for seven years. > > > 1pound, 15shillings and 3pence. > > > The said Edward Byrne for the 2nd Indictment 1pound, 12 shilling and > > 9pence. > > > John Rourke who was found guilty of an assault fined one mark and to be > > > discharged, he having performed the other part of the Rule against him. > > > 13shillings and 4pence. > > > Thomas Deer who was found guilty of two assaults to be imprisoned for a > > > fortnight, fined six pence and to give Security before a Magistrate to > > be > > > of the Peace. 1pound. 7shillings and 9pence. > > > Received a true Copy of this Kallender, ( signed ) John [ ? ], Gaoler > at > > > Carlow Gaol. [Jailer at Carlow Jail ] > > > (signed ) Benjamin Bunbury, One of the Magistrates of the Peace for > > Carlow > > > County appointed by our Majesty Lord George, King, Defender of the > Faith > > > and so Forth. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

J.J. You raise an interesting point! Yes there were indeed details about how the person died (within the last 20 years) and this may indeed have been the grounds for objecting to the posting (I was not given any details by the person making the request). Thank you for highlighting this area of concern. With best regards, Roger -----Original Message----- From: Jj Woods Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:34 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Hi Roger, Just one question: Are there details on the headstone of a very recent death? J. J. On 20 August 2013 22:13, Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> wrote: > Thank You Ron, > > I think that we have exhausted this topic and am going with the legal > opinion expressed in my original Email, that is: > > * “There is no legal requirement that a family consent” > but one should “pull a photo, if requested”. > > Based upon my current experience I believe that this is the least > disruptive > and, in the end, the best long-term strategy i.e. gaining the confidence > of > people as opposed to creating enemies. The person requesting the removal > was only concerned about one picture and hence the impact is minimal. > Besides, for the tombstone in question, I am quite certain that the > information was also published in an obituary. > > Bye for now, > Roger > > -----Original Message----- > From: ron medulison > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:53 PM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > Most of the parishes throughout Ireland have carried out projects > recording > tombstones , with many of them photographed and the results published in > books with index, pictures, maps and details transcribed from the stones > etc. > > > From: nolanme@verizon.net > > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:42:15 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > > > It is all a sticky business...who's to say who the official next of kin > > is, or if someone is who they sat they are....enough of that. > > > > Would the NLI have any information on this? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya Whitaker > > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:43 AM > > To: 'Alice Rumana'; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > > > One more thought,.... this relative that wants the headstone removed is > > being selfish since with high probability the memorial is for a > > relative(s) that is connected to others and not only that person. When > > this person that wants the headstone removed dies the headstone will > > wear > > away at some point and not anyone else down the line say one hundred > years > > from now will have the opportunity to see this memorial as it is now > > when > > you took the photo. I have this scenario occurring now with the photos > > I > > took recently in the local cemeteries in Kildavin, Co Carlow and > Bunclody, > > Co Wexford where some of the family headstones are difficult to read. > > Fortunately, I checked our photo collection and some of these same worn > > headstones are readable from the photos my mother took 35 years ago. > > > > Tanya > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Rumana > > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:09 AM > > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > > > Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes > > for > > that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the > > opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like > > yours....Thank you > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> > > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM > > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > > > > > Greetings to all Listers! > > > > As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones > > at my website > > (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials > > section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. > > > > I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a > > particular tombstone picture. > > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting > > pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > > > I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what > > the > > current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find > > someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this > > note). > > In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal > > requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if > > requested”. > > > > Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to > > decipher. > > It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let > > alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the > > cemetery in person. > > > > I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal > > requirements > > *** in Co. CARLOW *** > > for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the > Internet. > > > > Thank You all, > > > > Roger > > > > http://nolanfamilies.org > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States > > ************************************************************** > > Excerpt from Blog posting at > > > http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ > > > > Judy G. Russell says: > > October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am > > Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its > > loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of > > privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly > > objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down > > as > > a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family > > member > > who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having > > such information online. > > > > This whole business of having so much information available online is > > new > > to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and > courtesies > > involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful > > that > > many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of > privacy > > in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. > > > > Reply > > -------- > > Russ Worthington says: > > October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm > > Judy, > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > I was hoping that was your answer. > > > > I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my > > photos to family when requested. > > > > I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be > > clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they > > point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Russ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Turtle and readers, we are missing a file of approx.100 Bunbury papers, dating back to 1600s, about 40 of them have been transcribed and posted on this site, if any reader should learn where they now are please let me know, mick. On 20 August 2013 12:51, Turtle Bunbury (History) <turtlehistory@gmail.com>wrote: > Thanks for this Michael. Hopefully see you over the course of Carlow 800 > shenanigans. > > > > > > On 19 Aug 2013, at 11:06, Michael Purcell wrote: > > > Carlow General Quarter Sessions held at Carlow Court House, Burrin Street > > on the 6th day of October 1796. > > A Kallender of Prisoners left in the custody of Philip Newton, Esquire. > > High Sheriff of Carlow County until they perform the Rules and pay the > fees > > respectively annexed to their names. > > Edward Byrne who was found guilty at the last Sessions on two Indictments > > fined two marks and to give Security to keep the Peace for seven years. > > 1pound, 15shillings and 3pence. > > The said Edward Byrne for the 2nd Indictment 1pound, 12 shilling and > 9pence. > > John Rourke who was found guilty of an assault fined one mark and to be > > discharged, he having performed the other part of the Rule against him. > > 13shillings and 4pence. > > Thomas Deer who was found guilty of two assaults to be imprisoned for a > > fortnight, fined six pence and to give Security before a Magistrate to > be > > of the Peace. 1pound. 7shillings and 9pence. > > Received a true Copy of this Kallender, ( signed ) John [ ? ], Gaoler at > > Carlow Gaol. [Jailer at Carlow Jail ] > > (signed ) Benjamin Bunbury, One of the Magistrates of the Peace for > Carlow > > County appointed by our Majesty Lord George, King, Defender of the Faith > > and so Forth. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank You Ron, I think that we have exhausted this topic and am going with the legal opinion expressed in my original Email, that is: * “There is no legal requirement that a family consent” but one should “pull a photo, if requested”. Based upon my current experience I believe that this is the least disruptive and, in the end, the best long-term strategy i.e. gaining the confidence of people as opposed to creating enemies. The person requesting the removal was only concerned about one picture and hence the impact is minimal. Besides, for the tombstone in question, I am quite certain that the information was also published in an obituary. Bye for now, Roger -----Original Message----- From: ron medulison Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:53 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Most of the parishes throughout Ireland have carried out projects recording tombstones , with many of them photographed and the results published in books with index, pictures, maps and details transcribed from the stones etc. > From: nolanme@verizon.net > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:42:15 -0400 > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > It is all a sticky business...who's to say who the official next of kin > is, or if someone is who they sat they are....enough of that. > > Would the NLI have any information on this? > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya Whitaker > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:43 AM > To: 'Alice Rumana'; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > One more thought,.... this relative that wants the headstone removed is > being selfish since with high probability the memorial is for a > relative(s) that is connected to others and not only that person. When > this person that wants the headstone removed dies the headstone will wear > away at some point and not anyone else down the line say one hundred years > from now will have the opportunity to see this memorial as it is now when > you took the photo. I have this scenario occurring now with the photos I > took recently in the local cemeteries in Kildavin, Co Carlow and Bunclody, > Co Wexford where some of the family headstones are difficult to read. > Fortunately, I checked our photo collection and some of these same worn > headstones are readable from the photos my mother took 35 years ago. > > Tanya > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Rumana > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:09 AM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes for > that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the > opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like > yours....Thank you > > > ________________________________ > From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > > Greetings to all Listers! > > As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones > at my website > (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials > section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. > > I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a > particular tombstone picture. > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting > pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the > current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find > someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). > In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal > requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if > requested”. > > Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. > It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let > alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the > cemetery in person. > > I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal > requirements > *** in Co. CARLOW *** > for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. > > Thank You all, > > Roger > > http://nolanfamilies.org > > > ************************************************************** > Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States > ************************************************************** > Excerpt from Blog posting at > http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ > > Judy G. Russell says: > October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am > Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its > loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of > privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly > objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as > a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member > who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having > such information online. > > This whole business of having so much information available online is new > to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies > involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that > many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy > in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. > > Reply > -------- > Russ Worthington says: > October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm > Judy, > > Thank you very much. > > I was hoping that was your answer. > > I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my > photos to family when requested. > > I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be > clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they > point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. > > Thank you, > > Russ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Adam, you are working from the Burial Register of St. Mary's Cemetery, if the burial took place in the " Old Graves" they would not be recorded. Here are some entries from the index to Death Register of Carlow Cathedral ( which I hope present to the Carlow County Library before you leave the library service ). Michael, I found death of Anne, details below -- no direct match for James ?, but here are the entries I have ----- James Brennan, Pollerton Road, died aged 70, January 1908. James Brennan, John Street, died 24th July, 1931 ( Buried St Marys ! ), James Brennan, Staplestown Road, died 13th April 1973. aged 47. James Brennan, Little Barrack St. died Nov. 1863, aged 65. James Brennan, Tullow St. 13th Sept. 1966. (Buried St Marys ). Anne Brennan, died 14th April 1929, Parents William and Anne Sunderland ( buried St Marys ). Children of the marriage of James Brennan and Ann Sunderland. Elizabeth bap. 1884, Pollerton Road. John bap, 1896, Pollerton Road. Joseph, 1879, Bridewell Lane. Mary, 1899, Pollerton Road. Patrick, 1881, Burrin Street. Sarah, 1888, Accommodation Road. Thomas, 1892, PoLLERTON road. Anne Sunderland is recorded as mother of all of the above. On 19 August 2013 09:45, Adam Hennessy <hennessyajay@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > I have checked St. Mary's records for you. Both the James and Anne > Sunderland which show up in the records, don't match age and date of births > unfortunately. There is an Anne died aged 16, 26/06/1904 and a James died > aged 63, 06/02/1929. Must be another cemetery? > > > On 18 August 2013 15:38, Michael Brennan <mb006r9209@blueyonder.co.uk > >wrote: > > > Can anyone help me please find the death record of Anne Sunderland. She > was > > married to James Brennan b. 1858 in Woodland, Co. Laois. They were > married > > on Monday 26th Dec 1878 in Cathedral of the Assumption, Carlow. She was > > born > > c.1861 in Ballon. Co Carlow, They lived in Pollerton Road, Carlow. and > she > > died Date Unknown. > > > > Any information on Anne & James would be very helpful. > > > > Regards > > Michael Brennan > > County Carlow Website: http://goo.gl/67Vce > > My Laois Page: http://goo.gl/Bn5KE > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Maribeth, The person who requested removal of a picture is now quite satisfied and does not object to the other photos being there. Thank you, Roger -----Original Message----- From: Maribeth E. Nolan Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:33 PM To: 'Alice Rumana' ; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? I second... and third ... that sentiment! Roger, you are a true blessing! I would think that the request to remove is unusual rather than usual, so maybe we just remove that one and let the others be. I agree with a transcription...unless it's the information itself they are objecting to. I say we approach it that way. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Rumana Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:09 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes for that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like yours....Thank you ________________________________ From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Greetings to all Listers! As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements *** in Co. CARLOW *** for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ************************************************************** Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States ************************************************************** Excerpt from Blog posting at http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ Judy G. Russell says: October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. Reply -------- Russ Worthington says: October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm Judy, Thank you very much. I was hoping that was your answer. I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. Thank you, Russ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tanya, I believe that the information on the tombstone is also available in the form of a newspaper obituary. The tombstone is relatively recent. Also I plan to keep in touch with the person and hopefully, at some future date, hope to publish the picture again when it is deemed appropriate. Thank you for your feedback. Regards, Roger -----Original Message----- From: Tanya Whitaker Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:23 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Roger, The issue is,... you are the only one with the headstone photo in your files. How will it be available in the future if you are the only one with it in your collection? Perhaps put it up later or send it to the cemetery to be in their database and/or local genealogy society. It should be accessible by more than one in a larger database. Tanya -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roger Nowlan Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:02 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Bill, and all who responded, The person who requested that a picture be removed was a daughter and, after removing the picture , she responded: "Thank you for that I really do appreciate it ... any help you need in the future do not hesitate to contact ...." I have kept the tombstone picture in my files for future reference and am satisfied that there is no suggestion that I remove any other tombstones. I also seem to have made a new friend Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org P.S. For anyone interested, I will be in County Carlow September 4th to 19th. The Nolan Clan Gathering is September 7-8 but otherwise I plan to explore a few areas related to my own Nowland/Nowlan/Nolan family in the Ballon, not to mention trying to sort out the many Nolan lines in that area. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Gawne Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:31 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Roger, and all, Roger Nowlan wrote: > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of > posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > [...] In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal > requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, > if requested”. I do a lot with Find A Grave, where we have volunteer photographers going around to various cemeteries and photographing headstones. In general, the law considers headstones and grave markers of all sorts to be public monuments, so there's no law against photographing them that I've ever seen. I have many pictures of family headstones in St. Mullins cemetery, and I don't know of any policy against taking or posting such pictures. I think the policy given above is a very kind one, though I'd want to know how close the family member making the request was to the deceased. I'd be much more inclined to temporarily remove an image from the web for a bereaved spouse than for a great-granddaughter, just as an example. Roger, I think you're doing a very good thing by making your images available to those searching for information about their deceased relatives. Keep up the good work. -- Bill ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is all a sticky business...who's to say who the official next of kin is, or if someone is who they sat they are....enough of that. Would the NLI have any information on this? -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya Whitaker Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:43 AM To: 'Alice Rumana'; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? One more thought,.... this relative that wants the headstone removed is being selfish since with high probability the memorial is for a relative(s) that is connected to others and not only that person. When this person that wants the headstone removed dies the headstone will wear away at some point and not anyone else down the line say one hundred years from now will have the opportunity to see this memorial as it is now when you took the photo. I have this scenario occurring now with the photos I took recently in the local cemeteries in Kildavin, Co Carlow and Bunclody, Co Wexford where some of the family headstones are difficult to read. Fortunately, I checked our photo collection and some of these same worn headstones are readable from the photos my mother took 35 years ago. Tanya -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Rumana Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:09 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes for that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like yours....Thank you ________________________________ From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Greetings to all Listers! As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements *** in Co. CARLOW *** for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ************************************************************** Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States ************************************************************** Excerpt from Blog posting at http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ Judy G. Russell says: October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. Reply -------- Russ Worthington says: October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm Judy, Thank you very much. I was hoping that was your answer. I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. Thank you, Russ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I second... and third ... that sentiment! Roger, you are a true blessing! I would think that the request to remove is unusual rather than usual, so maybe we just remove that one and let the others be. I agree with a transcription...unless it's the information itself they are objecting to. I say we approach it that way. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Rumana Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:09 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes for that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like yours....Thank you ________________________________ From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Greetings to all Listers! As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements *** in Co. CARLOW *** for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ************************************************************** Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States ************************************************************** Excerpt from Blog posting at http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ Judy G. Russell says: October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. Reply -------- Russ Worthington says: October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm Judy, Thank you very much. I was hoping that was your answer. I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. Thank you, Russ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bill, The issue is,... you are the only one with the headstone photo in your files. How will it be available in the future if you are the only one with it in your collection? Perhaps put it up later or send it to the cemetery to be in their database and/or local genealogy society. It should be accessible by more than one in a larger database. Tanya -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roger Nowlan Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:02 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Bill, and all who responded, The person who requested that a picture be removed was a daughter and, after removing the picture , she responded: "Thank you for that I really do appreciate it ... any help you need in the future do not hesitate to contact ...." I have kept the tombstone picture in my files for future reference and am satisfied that there is no suggestion that I remove any other tombstones. I also seem to have made a new friend Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org P.S. For anyone interested, I will be in County Carlow September 4th to 19th. The Nolan Clan Gathering is September 7-8 but otherwise I plan to explore a few areas related to my own Nowland/Nowlan/Nolan family in the Ballon, not to mention trying to sort out the many Nolan lines in that area. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Gawne Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:31 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Roger, and all, Roger Nowlan wrote: > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of > posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > [...] In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal > requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, > if requested”. I do a lot with Find A Grave, where we have volunteer photographers going around to various cemeteries and photographing headstones. In general, the law considers headstones and grave markers of all sorts to be public monuments, so there's no law against photographing them that I've ever seen. I have many pictures of family headstones in St. Mullins cemetery, and I don't know of any policy against taking or posting such pictures. I think the policy given above is a very kind one, though I'd want to know how close the family member making the request was to the deceased. I'd be much more inclined to temporarily remove an image from the web for a bereaved spouse than for a great-granddaughter, just as an example. Roger, I think you're doing a very good thing by making your images available to those searching for information about their deceased relatives. Keep up the good work. -- Bill ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bill, and all who responded, The person who requested that a picture be removed was a daughter and, after removing the picture , she responded: "Thank you for that I really do appreciate it ... any help you need in the future do not hesitate to contact ...." I have kept the tombstone picture in my files for future reference and am satisfied that there is no suggestion that I remove any other tombstones. I also seem to have made a new friend Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org P.S. For anyone interested, I will be in County Carlow September 4th to 19th. The Nolan Clan Gathering is September 7-8 but otherwise I plan to explore a few areas related to my own Nowland/Nowlan/Nolan family in the Ballon, not to mention trying to sort out the many Nolan lines in that area. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Gawne Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:31 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Roger, and all, Roger Nowlan wrote: > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of > posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > [...] In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no > legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull > a photo, if requested”. I do a lot with Find A Grave, where we have volunteer photographers going around to various cemeteries and photographing headstones. In general, the law considers headstones and grave markers of all sorts to be public monuments, so there's no law against photographing them that I've ever seen. I have many pictures of family headstones in St. Mullins cemetery, and I don't know of any policy against taking or posting such pictures. I think the policy given above is a very kind one, though I'd want to know how close the family member making the request was to the deceased. I'd be much more inclined to temporarily remove an image from the web for a bereaved spouse than for a great-granddaughter, just as an example. Roger, I think you're doing a very good thing by making your images available to those searching for information about their deceased relatives. Keep up the good work. -- Bill ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Most of the parishes throughout Ireland have carried out projects recording tombstones , with many of them photographed and the results published in books with index, pictures, maps and details transcribed from the stones etc. > From: nolanme@verizon.net > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:42:15 -0400 > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > It is all a sticky business...who's to say who the official next of kin is, or if someone is who they sat they are....enough of that. > > Would the NLI have any information on this? > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tanya Whitaker > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:43 AM > To: 'Alice Rumana'; irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > One more thought,.... this relative that wants the headstone removed is being selfish since with high probability the memorial is for a relative(s) that is connected to others and not only that person. When this person that wants the headstone removed dies the headstone will wear away at some point and not anyone else down the line say one hundred years from now will have the opportunity to see this memorial as it is now when you took the photo. I have this scenario occurring now with the photos I took recently in the local cemeteries in Kildavin, Co Carlow and Bunclody, Co Wexford where some of the family headstones are difficult to read. Fortunately, I checked our photo collection and some of these same worn headstones are readable from the photos my mother took 35 years ago. > > Tanya > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Rumana > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:09 AM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes for that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like yours....Thank you > > > ________________________________ > From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > > Greetings to all Listers! > > As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website > (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. > > I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. > > Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. > > I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements > *** in Co. CARLOW *** > for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. > > Thank You all, > > Roger > > http://nolanfamilies.org > > > ************************************************************** > Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States > ************************************************************** > Excerpt from Blog posting at > http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ > > Judy G. Russell says: > October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am > Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. > > This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. > > Reply > -------- > Russ Worthington says: > October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm > Judy, > > Thank you very much. > > I was hoping that was your answer. > > I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. > > I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. > > Thank you, > > Russ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for this Michael. Hopefully see you over the course of Carlow 800 shenanigans. On 19 Aug 2013, at 11:06, Michael Purcell wrote: > Carlow General Quarter Sessions held at Carlow Court House, Burrin Street > on the 6th day of October 1796. > A Kallender of Prisoners left in the custody of Philip Newton, Esquire. > High Sheriff of Carlow County until they perform the Rules and pay the fees > respectively annexed to their names. > Edward Byrne who was found guilty at the last Sessions on two Indictments > fined two marks and to give Security to keep the Peace for seven years. > 1pound, 15shillings and 3pence. > The said Edward Byrne for the 2nd Indictment 1pound, 12 shilling and 9pence. > John Rourke who was found guilty of an assault fined one mark and to be > discharged, he having performed the other part of the Rule against him. > 13shillings and 4pence. > Thomas Deer who was found guilty of two assaults to be imprisoned for a > fortnight, fined six pence and to give Security before a Magistrate to be > of the Peace. 1pound. 7shillings and 9pence. > Received a true Copy of this Kallender, ( signed ) John [ ? ], Gaoler at > Carlow Gaol. [Jailer at Carlow Jail ] > (signed ) Benjamin Bunbury, One of the Magistrates of the Peace for Carlow > County appointed by our Majesty Lord George, King, Defender of the Faith > and so Forth. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roger, and all, Roger Nowlan wrote: > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of > posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > [...] In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no > legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull > a photo, if requested”. I do a lot with Find A Grave, where we have volunteer photographers going around to various cemeteries and photographing headstones. In general, the law considers headstones and grave markers of all sorts to be public monuments, so there's no law against photographing them that I've ever seen. I have many pictures of family headstones in St. Mullins cemetery, and I don't know of any policy against taking or posting such pictures. I think the policy given above is a very kind one, though I'd want to know how close the family member making the request was to the deceased. I'd be much more inclined to temporarily remove an image from the web for a bereaved spouse than for a great-granddaughter, just as an example. Roger, I think you're doing a very good thing by making your images available to those searching for information about their deceased relatives. Keep up the good work. -- Bill

Judy says it best: "However, if the family truly objects, I can't imagine why you wouldn't agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online." I totally disagree with Tanya's view. It's a matter of courtesy and respect for people who do feel it's an invasion of privacy. Nothing wrong with listing the information but letting people know an image exists if they'd like to see it. ~Linda S. Sent from my iPod Touch On Aug 20, 2013, at 5:43 AM, irl-carlow-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > However, if the family truly objects, I can?t imagine why you wouldn?t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online.

One more thought,.... this relative that wants the headstone removed is being selfish since with high probability the memorial is for a relative(s) that is connected to others and not only that person. When this person that wants the headstone removed dies the headstone will wear away at some point and not anyone else down the line say one hundred years from now will have the opportunity to see this memorial as it is now when you took the photo. I have this scenario occurring now with the photos I took recently in the local cemeteries in Kildavin, Co Carlow and Bunclody, Co Wexford where some of the family headstones are difficult to read. Fortunately, I checked our photo collection and some of these same worn headstones are readable from the photos my mother took 35 years ago. Tanya -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alice Rumana Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:09 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes for that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like yours....Thank you ________________________________ From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Greetings to all Listers! As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements *** in Co. CARLOW *** for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ************************************************************** Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States ************************************************************** Excerpt from Blog posting at http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ Judy G. Russell says: October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. Reply -------- Russ Worthington says: October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm Judy, Thank you very much. I was hoping that was your answer. I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. Thank you, Russ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just my own opinion, however I think the person requesting the photo being removed is carrying things a bit too far. The headstone can be seen if anyone wishes to go to the cemetery in person and take a photo of it, so I don't understand the need to remove it. For family members now and in the future that do not have the option of seeing it in person, if they live remotely, they will not have the opportunity to discover more about their ancestor. Having a note left on your site with the information when there is a photo of their family member's headstone to go with it would be disappointing to the researcher. I would think of a likeable persuasive, firm response against removing the headstone. Tanya -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roger Nowlan Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Greetings to all Listers! As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet. I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements *** in Co. CARLOW *** for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ************************************************************** Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States ************************************************************** Excerpt from Blog posting at http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ Judy G. Russell says: October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. Reply -------- Russ Worthington says: October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm Judy, Thank you very much. I was hoping that was your answer. I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. Thank you, Russ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roger First of all thank you for all your work taking these photos. I can understand the sensitivity of the situation. Perhaps the correct thing might be to appease the relative requesting the removal would be instead of posting the actual picture of that stone, to insert in the space just a written info(ex: John Doe, husband of-----born----- died-------) since that information would be public domain anyway. That way, anyone searching for that "stone" would at least have the information and know which cemetery it was in. This is just a thought I know I was delighted to have found pictures and location of a couple of my illusive family members.. Michelle Green MTs. of Vt. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Nowlan" <RNowlan@primus.ca> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > Greetings to all Listers! > > As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones > at my website > (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials > section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. > > I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a > particular tombstone picture. > The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting > pictures of tombstones to the Internet. > > I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the > current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find > someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note). > In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal > requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if > requested”. > > Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher. > It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let > alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the > cemetery in person. > > I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal > requirements > *** in Co. CARLOW *** > for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. > > Thank You all, > > Roger > > http://nolanfamilies.org > > > ************************************************************** > Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States > ************************************************************** > Excerpt from Blog posting at > http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ > > Judy G. Russell says: > October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am > Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its > loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of > privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly > objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as > a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member > who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having > such information online. > > This whole business of having so much information available online is new > to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies > involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that > many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy > in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. > > Reply > -------- > Russ Worthington says: > October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm > Judy, > > Thank you very much. > > I was hoping that was your answer. > > I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my > photos to family when requested. > > I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be > clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they > point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. > > Thank you, > > Russ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roger,     I just received some photos from Ireland of my ancestor's tombstone and I'm thrilled. I'm very grateful to persons like yourself, what you do is so kind. I might never get to see these tombstones otherwise.  I would say keep the pictures online.          However, you don't say if the stone is marking the grave of a recently deceased person.  Is this a grieving relative who made the request? If so I'd consider removing it temporarily.   Regards,  Ellen >________________________________ > From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> >To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com >Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM >Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? > > >Greetings to all Listers! > >As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website >(see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. > >I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. >The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet.  > >I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note).  In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. > >Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher.  It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. > >I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements >*** in Co. CARLOW *** >for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. > >Thank You all, > >Roger > >http://nolanfamilies.org > > >************************************************************** >Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States >************************************************************** >Excerpt from Blog posting at >http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ > >Judy G. Russell says: >October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am >Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. > >This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. > >Reply >-------- >Russ Worthington says: >October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm >Judy, > >Thank you very much. > >I was hoping that was your answer. > >I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. > >I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. > >Thank you, > >Russ > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Tombstones are memorials for viewing......Families can spend fortunes for that purpose to honor their loved ones. I never would have had the opportunity to see my family grave site if it wasn't for efforts like yours....Thank you ________________________________ From: Roger Nowlan <RNowlan@primus.ca> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 2:33 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Cemetery photos: permission required? Greetings to all Listers! As some of you may know I have several pictures of Co. Carlow tombstones at my website (see http://www.nolanfamilies.org/gallery/index.php?cat=16 for Memorials section), predominantly for deceased Nolans. I have now recently received a request from a relative to remove a particular tombstone picture. The question therefore arises as to the legality and practice of posting pictures of tombstones to the Internet.  I did a Google search in the hope of finding some guidance as to what the current practice/law might be for Co. Carlow but I could only find someting for Canada and the United States (see text at end of this note).  In essence, the guidance offered states that “there is no legal requirement that a family consent” but that one should “pull a photo, if requested”. Of the tombstones photographed, many were weathered and hard to decipher.  It would be a shame to limit the dissemination of such information , let alone the memory of those deceased, to only those able to visit the cemetery in person. I would appreciate any comments as regards accepted practice or legal requirements *** in Co. CARLOW *** for photographing tombstones and posting pictures of them to the Internet. Thank You all, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org ************************************************************** Reference: LEGAL OPINION for Canada and the United States ************************************************************** Excerpt from Blog posting at http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/10/22/cemetery-photos-permission-required/ Judy G. Russell says: October 22, 2012 at 10:41 am Russ, there’s no legal requirement that a family consent to having its loved one’s tombstone photo placed online. It’s not an invasion of privacy, though people often think it is. However, if the family truly objects, I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t agree to take the image down as a matter of courtesy. You can still supply the image to any family member who wants it while not offending those who are deeply troubled by having such information online. This whole business of having so much information available online is new to us all, and while the law is pretty clear, the protocols and courtesies involved are still developing, and I think we all need to be mindful that many people are truly unhappy with what they perceive as a loss of privacy in this online world and as a discourtesy to living and dead alike. Reply -------- Russ Worthington says: October 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm Judy, Thank you very much. I was hoping that was your answer. I certainly would pull a photo, if requested and I have even sent my photos to family when requested. I have also found some relationship’s in Find-A-Grave that may not be clear in other online repositories. A couple of Obituaries as well, they point to the actual newspaper for that obituary. Thank you, Russ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message