Pat - I don't know a lot about the McGrath side of the family because it was my great grand-aunt who married a McGrath. Some of our family are in a McGrath wedding photo that I have. Alicia died young but had had a lot of children by then. Joseph born in 1858 married Elenor McAllister, Edmund born in 1862 was a batchelor, Daniel - a batchelor and Pierce a batchelor. These were the 3 batchelors of no. 3 batchelors' Walk in Dublin. ! Matthew born in 1860 Anne Maria born in 1864 Alicia died young and Martha about whom I know nothing ! There was a second Alicia who married a Patrick O'Shea and had seven children. Alicia Hughes who married Pierce McGrath died on 30th Dec., 1871 aged 36 years. Pierce married again. His second wife was Mary Frances Brannan and they had 4 children. If I get anything else I willsent it too. Ro -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat Zipf Sent: 18 January 2010 23:43 To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Kane Smith of Moyle Hello Ronnie, Just wonder if you know whether any of your McGraths had a connection to the name Holohan (or variants) or Derenzy in Bagenalstown 1840/1880. Best regards, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shorten Family" <shortenfamily@eircom.net> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Kane Smith of Moyle > Turtle - The Kane-Smiths are our cousins. Lal Kane-Smith was christened > Alicia. Her father was Sir Joseph McGrath, and her brother was Fr. > Fergal > McGrath S.J. Her sister was Mercedes Bolger. That is probably not the > side > of the family that you are looking for. I don't know much about the > Kane-Smith side. Joseph McGrath' s mother was Alicia Hughes of > Ballinabranna and my great grand-mother was Elizabeth Hughes - her sister. > The McGraths were tea importers and left a lot of money to Bagenalstown. > Joseph had 3 brothers who were batchelors and who were very wealthy. > Their > address was No. 3 Batchelors' Walk, Dublin, and it was from here that > they > ran their tea business - McGrath's tea. Veronica (Ronnie) Shorten . > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Turtle Bunbury > Sent: 18 January 2010 11:59 > To: Carlow Rootsweb > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Kane Smith of Moyle > > Howdy all, > > Does anybody know about the Kane-Smith family who were based at Moyle, > Co. Carlow, from circa 1874-1990? > > Best wishes, > > Turtle > > > Turtle Bunbury > www.turtlebunbury.com > Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > Mob: + 353 - (0) 87 - 6453 486 > Skype: turtle1847 > > Turtle Bunbury is a best-selling author, researcher and scriptwriter > based in Ireland. > Turtle's acclaimed 'Your History in a Book' venture offers an > innovative way to transform your family history into a compelling read. > Turtle's seventh book, Vanishing Ireland - Further Chronicles of a > Disappearing World, with photographer James Fennell, was the 5th > biggest selling hardback - and the top-selling Picture Book - in > Ireland's non-fiction charts over Christmas 2009. > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.149/2630 - Release Date: > 01/18/10 > 07:35:00 > > > ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.150/2632 - Release Date: 01/19/10 07:34:00

Hi All Looking for info on the following ROBERTS. Joseph ROBERTS. Lived at Kilcarrig St B-Town in 1852. Died 1879?. Married Jane RAFTER. I dont know where they married. They were of COI. Children Jane ROBERTS Samuel ROBERTS abt 1836 Dunleckney John ROBERTS Dunleckney Anna ROBERTS abt 1838 Dunleckney Maria ROBERTS abt 1845 Dunleckney Samuel ROBERTS married in COI B-Town in NOV 1857 to Anna Maria SHEEHAN of Rathwade. He later remarried in St Andrew's B-Town and was Baptized into the Catholic Church as an adult. John ROBERTS married Anne DAWSON 1st FEB 1882. They remained with the COI. Anna ROBERTS married twice. I dont know which came first. She married ? WILKINSON - Dunleckney. She married Michael HOSEY in 1858 in St Andrew's B-Town. I dont know if she changed her religion also, but I think she might have as all her HOSEY children where brought up RC. Maria ROBERTS married Philip Morrison 1866 in Registry Office Carlow. They moved around quite a bit. They did have children in B-Town. I know of some children born in Kilcarrig St B-Town. She and her family moved to Stratford Ont. She Any info would be great to piece this altogether. Thankyou Treacy _________________________________________________________________ Send us your Hotmail stories and be featured in our newsletter http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/

What kind of certs? I can look up the address and website and send to you. Alyce Herrera On 1/22/2010 1:37 PM, Treacy Breen wrote: > Hi Listers, > > > > I am hoping someone might be able to help me with this question. > > I am looking to order CERTS from Phila USA, and I was wondering if someone on the list might be able to point me in the right direction.. > > > > I thankyou all in advance > > > > Treacy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Ellen, There are so many Nolans all with the same first names that I am dizzy trying to locate my family members! I don't think your Nolan's are mine because Michael died in IReland sometime in the late 19th century. I do know that Michael's son was listed as "from Rathvilly" on his marriage certificate as were his parents. Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ellen To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Nolan - Rathvilly 1830s and 1840s Hello Maribeth, I don't have specific information on your Nolan family, however in the church records of my Hore,(Hoare) family that name is mentioned ( Rathvilly Catholic records) in the late 1820's and early 1830s. I know one branch of the Rathvilly Nolans came to the USA along with my family and settled in Auburn NY. Ellen --- On Sun, 1/24/10, Maribeth E. Nolan <nolanme@verizon.net> wrote: From: Maribeth E. Nolan <nolanme@verizon.net> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Nolan - Rathvilly 1830s and 1840s To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, January 24, 2010, 1:11 PM Hi everyone, I'm looking for the following Catholic birth records: Thomas James Nolan - born @ 1844-46 in Rathvilly; parents were Michael Nolan and Julia/Judy Hayes (I believe she was from Rathmore) Matthew Nolan - born @ 1844-46; same parents Thomas moved to Graigue and married Agnes King. I don't have any information on Matthew except that he apperas to have been buried in Graigue. Any leads on tracking down this information is much appreciated! Maribeth E. Nolan nolanme@verizon.net ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In regards to Rowan McCombes stone I cannot answer where it is But I can also tell you this that there could have been theft, as it does not need all the machinery in the world to do this, having had this happen in the middle of last year, in Arklow, when my friend who is the babysitter of one of the graveyards there noticed a van doing some unusual things. The van was reported, and followed and it proved to be gardeners that were removing stones, surrounds and iron railings to use in landscaping of gardens. And No not all graveyards have caretakers, and certainly not once they are not being used. this category falls under the honor code, where you and I and many others would never consider, the act of vandalism or stealing, we have honor -but in todays world we do meet a different class of persons, who are not of Irish birth. These men in Arklow were arrested, but you know what, they could not be charged although, standing next to the parts taken from the grave, it was deemed they were not in their possession.............so be on the look out for men who travel in packs, and at this time were driving a blue van. I doubt very much that the stone crumbled with age, and disappeared alone I am sure it had aid and assistance, and although this is happening all over Ireland it also happens here in my State of Australia. BUT it is not a nice thing to hear about. I have newspaper clippings of this thing going on in Ireland . Ireland does have a different system of minding the rural and towns graveyards. Cheers Cara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom LaPorte" <tlaporte@mts.net> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:16 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] HELP-MISSING TOMBSTONE----The Mystery of RowanMcCombe continues........................................... > That wouldn't likely be a theft would it? It would take too much > equipment > to remove a large stone and what value would it have to anybody? I have > heard that large monuments have been stolen here where our cemeteries are > often quite isolated. Only the large ones can be cut down and reworked > into > a new stone without becoming too small. It's hard to imagine that could > happen without being noticed there though. There must be a caretaker for > the cemetery who would know about this. They usually know more than the > office staff who are responsible for the cemetery. > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of michael purcell > Sent: 24 January 2010 07:52 > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] HELP-MISSING TOMBSTONE----The Mystery of Rowan > McCombe > continues........................................... > > Some weeks ago I submitted the Tombstone Transcription for Rowan McCombe, > this I obtained from the Pat Purcell Papers. > Pat transcribed a few hundred inscriptions from Killeshin Church and > graveyard in 1970. (They are now with Cara, who will publish them later ). > Pat also drew up a map locating each burial plot and stone. > He identified and located Rowan's tombstone which was then adjacent to the > resting place of his daughter Mary McCombe. > This morning I checked the site and environs and found that Rowan's large > tombstone is no longer there !. > (the Tombstone for Mary is there but the Anchor Chain is gone !) > All that remains is the marks of where it once stood. > I checked with some of the congregation but they have no knowledge of its > present whereabouts !. > I have never come across anything like this before. > I wonder was it there when Peter Walker took his pictures of the area ?. > Here is a reminder of what was recorded in 1970 . > In Memory of Rowan McCombe who departed this life 6th April 1877. > aged 58 years. > Also Mary 3rd daughter of Rowan McCombe who died 7th January 1877. > aged 15 years. ( her death is also recorded on the other tombstone !) > and Henry Edwin McCombe 2nd son of Rowan McCombe died 15th June 1885. > aged 31 years. > Note from Michael Purcell, 2010, according to Pat Purcell's map of 1970 > the > tombstone for above > is located at the same spot as the McCombe transcriptions I submitted a > few > weeks ago. > I am unable to locate that tombstone today !!. > ======================================= > send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2641 - Release Date: 01/23/10 19:33:00

Hello Maribeth, I don't have specific information on your Nolan family, however in the church records of my Hore,(Hoare) family that name is mentioned ( Rathvilly Catholic records) in the late 1820's and early 1830s.  I know one branch of the Rathvilly Nolans came to the USA along with my family and settled in Auburn NY. Ellen --- On Sun, 1/24/10, Maribeth E. Nolan <nolanme@verizon.net> wrote: From: Maribeth E. Nolan <nolanme@verizon.net> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Nolan - Rathvilly 1830s and 1840s To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, January 24, 2010, 1:11 PM Hi everyone, I'm looking for the following Catholic birth records: Thomas James Nolan - born @ 1844-46 in Rathvilly; parents were Michael Nolan and Julia/Judy Hayes (I believe she was from Rathmore) Matthew Nolan - born @ 1844-46; same parents Thomas moved to Graigue and married Agnes King. I don't have any information on Matthew except that he apperas to have been buried in Graigue. Any leads on tracking down this information is much appreciated! Maribeth E. Nolan nolanme@verizon.net ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com  with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nineteen years ago, I started my annual treks around Ireland, photographing and documenting Early Christian and some early Medieval sites. I quickly realized that a number of the recorded antiquities - 9th/10th century cross-slabs, carved stoneheads on walls, sheila-na-gigs, etc. - were disappearing. It would take some time to go back and identify all of the missing objects, but one in particular stands out.......a sheela-na-gig, previously unknown to me, had been recently removed from a building shortly after publication of an Archaeological Inventory of the county - where I first learned of it. I got there a few weeks too late. I wonder if documentation of such sites could be viewed as a "shopping list" for those so inclined to rob the object? I realize that the general graveyard headstone would not necessarily fall into this category, but perhaps the more decorative stones would be at risk? Dunno. Pete - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts </HTML>

Hello Pete, We learned this season on our favorite PBS/OPB tv program: 'Oregon Field Guide,' that several state university archeologists in Oregon have ceased publishing maps to sites because of just what you say - maps & "documents of such sites could be viewed (and, indeed were used) as a shopping list for those so inclined to rob the object(s)." A friend lent us the Guide to the National Monuments of Ireland, by Peter Harbison and we went in search of some of the treasures he documented. We found some (well-known) & inquired about others. The locals told us they felt he'd done Ireland a grave injustice, in some cases, by painstakingly giving photos and drawings and excellent directions to folks back in 1992 (publication). So sad. What a fascinating treasure hunt you've been on, Pete. Even tho I hope you won't give out actual locations, have you published your photos? Do you have a website? Sharon K. Oregon, U.S. ----- Original Message ----- From: <petescherm@aol.com> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] HELP-MISSING TOMBSTONE > Nineteen years ago, I started my annual treks around Ireland, > photographing and documenting Early Christian and some early Medieval > sites. I quickly realized that a number of the recorded antiquities - > 9th/10th century cross-slabs, carved stoneheads on walls, sheila-na-gigs, > etc. - were disappearing. It would take some time to go back and identify > all of the missing objects, but one in particular stands out.......a > sheela-na-gig, previously unknown to me, had been recently removed from a > building shortly after publication of an Archaeological Inventory of the > county - where I first learned of it. I got there a few weeks too late. > I wonder if documentation of such sites could be viewed as a "shopping > list" for those so inclined to rob the object? I realize that the general graveyard headstone would not necessarily fall into this category, but perhaps the more decorative stones would be at risk? Dunno. Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts

Michael There was only one flat (horizontal) tombstone there on the day I photographed it, I did not see any stone that would lead me to believe that Rowan was buried there. My visit was only a few weeks ago! Peter . 2010/1/24 michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com>: > Some weeks ago I submitted the Tombstone Transcription for Rowan McCombe, > this I obtained from the Pat Purcell Papers. > Pat transcribed a few hundred inscriptions from Killeshin Church and > graveyard in 1970. (They are now with Cara, who will publish them later ). > Pat also drew up a map locating each burial plot and stone. > He identified and located Rowan's tombstone which was then adjacent to the > resting place of his daughter Mary McCombe. > This morning I checked the site and environs and found that Rowan's large > tombstone is no longer there !. > (the Tombstone for Mary is there but the Anchor Chain is gone !) > All that remains is the marks of where it once stood. > I checked with some of the congregation but they have no knowledge of its > present whereabouts !. > I have never come across anything like this before. > I wonder was it there when Peter Walker took his pictures of the area ?. > Here is a reminder of what was recorded in 1970 . > In Memory of Rowan McCombe who departed this life 6th April 1877. > aged 58 years. > Also Mary 3rd daughter of Rowan McCombe who died 7th January 1877. > aged 15 years. ( her death is also recorded on the other tombstone !) > and Henry Edwin McCombe 2nd son of Rowan McCombe died 15th June 1885. > aged 31 years. > Note from Michael Purcell, 2010, according to Pat Purcell's map of 1970 the > tombstone for above > is located at the same spot as the McCombe transcriptions I submitted a few > weeks ago. > I am unable to locate that tombstone today !!. > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com  with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Extract from a lecture by Professor Donal McCartney delivered in 1986. Published by Michael Purcell in "Carlow Past and Present 1987". In the early decades of the 19th century Catholics and Protestants by and large had lived on excellent neighbourly terms with each other. During this period the Roman Catholic Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin, James Doyle (J.K.L.), wrote about the blessings to Ireland which a union of the churches would bring and of the advantages to be derived from the mixed education of Catholics and Protestants, saying that he did not know of any measure which would prepare the way for a better feeling in Ireland than that of uniting children at an early age, and bringing them up in the same school. This was the time when the Protestant gentry of Carlow were helping Fr. Michael MacDonald to build his new church in Killeshin, the foundation stone of which was laid in May 1819 on a site given by William Cooper (of Cooper Hill). Protestants like Col. Bruen, and the Earl of Portarlington made generous financial contributions towards the building fund. To add to the fund a Grand Oratorio and Sermon was organised by the Carlow Protestants under the patronage of Lady Butler, Lady Burgh, Mrs Bruen, Mrs Rochfort, Mrs Cooper and Mrs Fishbourne. Among the gentlemen who acted as collectors on the occasion and who were publicly thanked by the Catholics of Killeshin were Messrs. Browne, Burton, Cooper, Vigors and Fishbourne. When the building was completed in August 1819 the Carlow Morning Post asserted: To the liberality of the Protestant gentry the Catholics are chiefly indebted for the erection of this very handsome building. Most of this good neighbourliness was to change into bitter sectarian feuding a few years later during the 1820s largely as a result, on the one hand , of the launching of the Protestant Evangelical Crusade to convert Irish Catholics to Protestants and the deep resentment which this caused among the Catholic clergy; and, on the other hand, to the launching of Danial O' Connell's Emancipation movement in 1823 and the exaggerated fears which this struck into Protestant breasts. The Evangelical movement in England had chosen Ireland and its Roman Catholic people for a great missionary crusade.

Some weeks ago I submitted the Tombstone Transcription for Rowan McCombe, this I obtained from the Pat Purcell Papers. Pat transcribed a few hundred inscriptions from Killeshin Church and graveyard in 1970. (They are now with Cara, who will publish them later ). Pat also drew up a map locating each burial plot and stone. He identified and located Rowan's tombstone which was then adjacent to the resting place of his daughter Mary McCombe. This morning I checked the site and environs and found that Rowan's large tombstone is no longer there !. (the Tombstone for Mary is there but the Anchor Chain is gone !) All that remains is the marks of where it once stood. I checked with some of the congregation but they have no knowledge of its present whereabouts !. I have never come across anything like this before. I wonder was it there when Peter Walker took his pictures of the area ?. Here is a reminder of what was recorded in 1970 . In Memory of Rowan McCombe who departed this life 6th April 1877. aged 58 years. Also Mary 3rd daughter of Rowan McCombe who died 7th January 1877. aged 15 years. ( her death is also recorded on the other tombstone !) and Henry Edwin McCombe 2nd son of Rowan McCombe died 15th June 1885. aged 31 years. Note from Michael Purcell, 2010, according to Pat Purcell's map of 1970 the tombstone for above is located at the same spot as the McCombe transcriptions I submitted a few weeks ago. I am unable to locate that tombstone today !!.

Hi everyone, I'm looking for the following Catholic birth records: Thomas James Nolan - born @ 1844-46 in Rathvilly; parents were Michael Nolan and Julia/Judy Hayes (I believe she was from Rathmore) Matthew Nolan - born @ 1844-46; same parents Thomas moved to Graigue and married Agnes King. I don't have any information on Matthew except that he apperas to have been buried in Graigue. Any leads on tracking down this information is much appreciated! Maribeth E. Nolan nolanme@verizon.net

Hi there Mike. Not sure it is actually 'ownership' you are seeking, as most land was held in large estates, but the Tithe Applotment (1820s - 30s) books can be useful. There are also estate records which survive in many areas which can give great detail on tenants, leases etc. A number of these are held at the Manuscript Room of the National Library of Ireland in Dublin. I'm not sure how far back the land records at the Valuation Office in Dublin go, but they are also a good source of information on the changes of ownership. And as has already been mentioned, the Registry of Deeds office has extensive records but is often overlooked as a source of genealogical information. All the best, Patsy - New Zealand Website: http://www.loanegenealogy.webs.com Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 6:15 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Land ownership > Does anybody know how to find out who owned land,ie farms etc, prior to > the > Griffiths Valuation? > > Mike Rafter >

That wouldn't likely be a theft would it? It would take too much equipment to remove a large stone and what value would it have to anybody? I have heard that large monuments have been stolen here where our cemeteries are often quite isolated. Only the large ones can be cut down and reworked into a new stone without becoming too small. It's hard to imagine that could happen without being noticed there though. There must be a caretaker for the cemetery who would know about this. They usually know more than the office staff who are responsible for the cemetery. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 24 January 2010 07:52 To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] HELP-MISSING TOMBSTONE----The Mystery of Rowan McCombe continues........................................... Some weeks ago I submitted the Tombstone Transcription for Rowan McCombe, this I obtained from the Pat Purcell Papers. Pat transcribed a few hundred inscriptions from Killeshin Church and graveyard in 1970. (They are now with Cara, who will publish them later ). Pat also drew up a map locating each burial plot and stone. He identified and located Rowan's tombstone which was then adjacent to the resting place of his daughter Mary McCombe. This morning I checked the site and environs and found that Rowan's large tombstone is no longer there !. (the Tombstone for Mary is there but the Anchor Chain is gone !) All that remains is the marks of where it once stood. I checked with some of the congregation but they have no knowledge of its present whereabouts !. I have never come across anything like this before. I wonder was it there when Peter Walker took his pictures of the area ?. Here is a reminder of what was recorded in 1970 . In Memory of Rowan McCombe who departed this life 6th April 1877. aged 58 years. Also Mary 3rd daughter of Rowan McCombe who died 7th January 1877. aged 15 years. ( her death is also recorded on the other tombstone !) and Henry Edwin McCombe 2nd son of Rowan McCombe died 15th June 1885. aged 31 years. Note from Michael Purcell, 2010, according to Pat Purcell's map of 1970 the tombstone for above is located at the same spot as the McCombe transcriptions I submitted a few weeks ago. I am unable to locate that tombstone today !!. ======================================= send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks,J.J.most useful. Regards,Mike

The Registry of Deeds also recorded leases, particularly for larger properties. Smaller/shorter leases were also recorded especially if there was a likelihood of disputes and/or litigation. Wills and other documents such as marriage settlements and judgements are also recorded there. There are two indexes, one for names and the other for lands. The lands index is probably the better option for initial research as, if memory serves me correctly, the names index list the grantors. http://www.landregistry.ie/eng/Registry_of_Deeds_Services/ The following link is to a database being constructed by volunteers who have researched in the Registry and have generously put up the information they acquired. You might be lucky. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~registryofdeeds/index.html J. J. On 23 January 2010 21:25, Patricia O'Shea <pkoshea@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Hi there Mike. Not sure it is actually 'ownership' you are seeking, as most > land was held in large estates, but the Tithe Applotment (1820s - 30s) > books > can be useful. > > There are also estate records which survive in many areas which can give > great detail on tenants, leases etc. A number of these are held at the > Manuscript Room of the National Library of Ireland in Dublin. > > I'm not sure how far back the land records at the Valuation Office in > Dublin > go, but they are also a good source of information on the changes of > ownership. > > And as has already been mentioned, the Registry of Deeds office has > extensive records but is often overlooked as a source of genealogical > information. > > All the best, > Patsy - New Zealand > > Website: > http://www.loanegenealogy.webs.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 6:15 AM > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Land ownership > > > > Does anybody know how to find out who owned land,ie farms etc, prior to > > the > > Griffiths Valuation? > > > > Mike Rafter > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The Registry of Deeds in Dublin would be a good place to start. I think they recorded deeds from 1703. J. J. On 23 January 2010 17:15, <Mrafter719@aol.com> wrote: > Does anybody know how to find out who owned land,ie farms etc, prior to the > Griffiths Valuation? > > Mike Rafter > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Rita [Farrell], Assuming that you (or any other Carlow lister) have a Farrell family connection to Co. Carlow, the following Email posted in 2003 on another list may be of interest: ************** From: "Inez Allen" < iallen@efni.com> Subject: [Irish-Canadian] ROLL CALL::KELLY. CLEAR, MURPHY, NOWLAN (NOLAN) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:30:15 -0400 John KELLY ,b. Roman Catholic about 1831, Killane, Ballon, Co.Carlow,d. January 9, 1875, Farrelton, Quebec, son of Patrick KELLY & Brigid MURPHY, probably both of Killane, married Johanna CLEAR, b.Roman Catholic about 1831, perhaps Bagenalstown, Co. Carlow??, daughter of Thomas CLEAR and Mary NOWLAN (NOLAN) of Kilconnor. John and Johanna were married July 01, 1858 in St. Andrews Roman Catholic Church, Bagenalstown, Co. Carlow. John emigrated to Canada between 1869 and 1871. Johanna probably arrived a year later.. John and Johanna are my great-grandparents. Inez Allen iallen@efni.com [RN: In the mid to late 1800s, Farrelton would have been a lumbering community, situated at the mouth of the Gatineau river, across the river from the Canadian Parliament buildings. 1869 was also only 2 years after Confederation, when Canada became a country with 4 provinces.] ************** The preceding Email makes a geographical connection between Farrelton, QC (today within eyesight of the Canadian parliament buildings, across the river in Ottawa) and Killane in Co. Carlow, an area just south of Ballon Village. (In my own family research, the Ballon Village area has been of prime interest.) Now to establish a connection between the Farrells of Co. Carlow and those who presumably settled in Farrelton, Quebec, I must refer to an early Ballon-Rathoe baptismal church record: "1794/10/23 Nowlan, Catherine Nowlan, Michael & Ann; Heydon, Thomas; Farrel, Joanna; residence: Killane " It would also appear as if, in 1791, this "Joanna Farrel" married a Patrick Nowlan from the area (RN: presumably from the Craanaha townland). Here is the reference marriage record information: " 1791/06 Nowlan, Patt m. Joanna Farrel witnesses: Nowlan, Patt; Crow, William; (RN: There is a Crowes crossroad in this area; also note that there seems to have been another Patrick Nowlan. Patrick senior? A cousin?) residence: Killane " Well Rita ... that's about it! My main point is that early records for Farrelton, Quebec (present-day Hull-Gatineau area) or Bytown, Ontario (part of present-day Ottawa, across the river) may contain information about some long-lost Farrell family connection in America. With best regards, Roger ****************************************************** PS#1: For those with whom I have been corresponding about my research in the Ballon Village area (or who may have an interest) here a few more details about my findings for the Killane area. The Michael and Ann Nowlan mentioned above are believed to have been an aunt and uncle to my Canadian ancestor, "Peter Nowlan(d)" who settled in New Brunswick in 1818. Here is their presumed marriage record: " 1792 02 26 Nowlan, Michael m. Ann Brennan Nowlan, Laurence; Brennan, James residence: Killane " The name "James Brennan" appearing in the above record also appears in the marriage for my Canadian ancestor's parents: " 1793 08 Nowlan, James m. Mary Shortel (sic Shortall) Clory (sic Clowry), a widow Brennan, James; Heyden, Denis residence: Killane NOTE: Mary was previously married in 1784 to a James Clowry (RN: of Kilkey]. Her maiden name was Shortall. " This James Brennan is believed to have been related to the bride, Mary Shortall, possibly being her brother-in-law. From a tombstone in Upper Grange, Grangesilvia parish, Co. Kilkenny, near Goresbridge (a barracks town, close to the Carlow border and Borris) it is known that a James Brennan was married to a Margaret Shortall. He is believed to have been the same person as the James Brennan (RN: a yoeman of Tullow] showing up in two of the parish records given above. James Brennan, Michael Nowlan and James Nowlan are believed to have been yoemen in Co. Carlow during the years leading up to the troubles of 1798. It is not known what role they played during the troubles. Here is a transcription of the tombstone in the Grangesilvia cemetery where the name of James Brennan appears: " Underneath are interr'd the mortal remains of JAMES BRENAN who dep'd this life August the 12th, 1809 ag'd 70 y'rs. Here also lieth the body of his wife MARGARET BRENAN al's SHORTALL who dep'd August 19th, 1809 ag'd 70 y'rs. R.I.P. " As already mentioned, the wedding in December 1793, was already a second one for Mary Shortall and, in all likelihood (see note below), it may have been a second one for James. The following baptismal record from June 1793 "may" relate to James' first family who seems to have been living in Ballintrane in 1793: " 1793 06 Nowlan, Thomas Nowlan, James + Margaret Lyons Owen Lyons, Margaret Lyons Ballintrane " NOTE: My Canadian ancestor, Peter Nowlan(d) named his children as follows: (1)Thomas (after his grandfather?) (2)John (after his father-in-law) (3)William James (after his uncle, William of Kilknock? + after his father James) [RN: Is the combination of an uncle + father common?] (4)Pierre/Peter (after himself) As regards Mary Shortall's first husband, James Clowry [RN: of Kilkey] it is believed that he was related to the "Farmer Clowry" of Kilmaglin who was shot in the aftermath of the troubles in 1798. I have now positively identified Farmer Clowry as a Darby Clowry for whom his wife "Anne" claimed and collected a widower's pension in the early 1800s (1804 if I recall correctly). Here is a transcription of his tombstone in the Kellistown cemetery: " Here lieth the Body of Darby Clowry who departed this life the 6th day of March 1800 aged 46. May The Lord have mercy on his Soul. Also his beloved Wife Anne Clowry who departed this life 31st January 1831 aged 70. Also their worthy Son Patrick Clowry late of Ballintrane who departed this life 2nd February 1849 aged 60 years. " >From another researcher, I also know that at one point the Clowrys of the Kilkey area (next to Moanmore) left this area and resettled to the area of Kilbricken and Ballintrane (neighbouring townlands to the northwest). It is hard to make sense of the many Nolan lines in the Killane area and any comments you may have would be appreciated. PS#2: "Cummin's related to Nolans, Burrin Side, Mrs. Nolan, Muinebheag. " Could the Mary Cummins married to Thomas Nowland and buried in the old Ballon cemetery have been part of the "Cummin's related to Nolans"? Here is the transcription for tha tombstone: " Erected by Mary Nowland Alias Cummins in Memory of her husband Thomas Nowland who Died the 6th of April 1811 aged 48 Years Also her son Garret Nolan Died Oct. 15th 1882 aged 75 Years His wife Mary Nolan. Died Aug. 4th 1884 aged 77 Years. And their son Thomas Nolan Died 1929 aged 82 Yrs. Lord Have Mercy of His Soul. " [NOTE: In the late 1700s, there was a Garrett Nowlan on the Kilkey townland who would have been of age to be a brother of the Thomas Nowland mentioned here. This Garrett was married to Anne Hennissey (Halifax marriage record for their son Patrick; there was also a neighbour of Patrick in Lowerr Prospect, named Michael, who I assumed was his brother but could also be a cousin). Garret and Anne's first son (1790s) was named Daniel. I believe that this was the Daniel leasing land on the Kilknock townland in 1851. Bye for now, Roger

The PA Dept of Health or vitrec sites are fine. However, depending on where someone lived at the time an event occurred, you may need to apply some insight as to where to look/request records/certificates. Fees are generally non-refundable. Births and deaths after 1906 are cake...its all centralized. Although, you do need a reasonable amount of data to have the Commonwealth pull records for you. Otherwise, you pay a search fee in addition to the certificate fee. Also, PA right-to-know laws do not apply to either, so not just anyone can order certificates. Some states (not PA) are more liberal - having a "50 year rule." To acquire a PA state record, they require that you must, at least, be a direct descendant of the person in question. Treacy did not say what kind of certificates she was looking for - be they state certificates, county certificates, church records, or something that would reside in a local branch of the National Archives (e.g. Naturalizations). Remember, PA has always been a commonwealth - for all intent and purposes, just like a state - however governmentally, PA is organized in terms of townships, boroughs, towns, cities, and counties. Philadelphia is both a county and a city. Old records were often maintained at the town, city and county levels. For B/D records before 1906, you need to look elsewhere for records and possible certificate (or certified copy) availability. Thus, my question about rough dates... If you are after a marriage record in Philadelphia and the people are in the online Phila. Marriage Index, that is a simple request form/fee sent to the Marriage Bureau (with checks to both Phila Orphans Court & Register of Wills). Offical Philadelphia marriage records were kept back since 1885. An official certificate of a church record of marriage might be available prior to that date. Note that many people refer to living in Philadelphia, when they actually live in the metropolitan area - which means they might possibly really live in Montgomery, Chester, Bucks, or Delaware county. The Philadelphia (RC) Archdiocese actually encompasses all five counties. Also, marriage licenses are completely transferable across the Commonwealth. People did and still do this all the time - for example, marrying in Philly and getting a license in Montgomery County (or, more likely, vice versa due to the fact that people worked in the city and many bus/trains/trolley lines went straight to Philadelphia City Hall). It is possible to get a license in Pittsburgh and marry in Philly - albeit that is an extreme example but you might see it if someone were returning to a college chapel to get married. The "return of marriage" certificate is sent back and filed in the county in which the license was obtained which is not necessarily the county where the marriage occurred. Any questions about these particulars which pertain to PA records you might want - just sing out. PA is pretty good about sending records...it just helps to know how to best find them. Joann Taylor Rita Farrell wrote: Hello, Rita here writing from Ohio. You can find all the info. you need to get records from Phila., Pennsylvania by going to the website for "Pennsylvania Vital Records". Some records are available online and the website will give you a form to fill out for whatever you need. Let me know if you need more stateside help. Rita Farrell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Treacy Breen" [1]<tab1310@hotmail.co.uk> To: [2]<irl-carlow@rootsweb.com>; [3]<fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 4:37 PM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Ordering Certs in USA Hi Listers, I am hoping someone might be able to help me with this question. I am looking to order CERTS from Phila USA, and I was wondering if someone on the list might be able to point me in the right direction.. I thankyou all in advance Treacy _________________________________________________________________ Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now [4]http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to [5]IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [6]IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to [7]IRL-CARLOW-req uest@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subjec t box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [8]IRL-CARLOW-request@roo tsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:tab1310@hotmail.co.uk 2. mailto:irl-carlow@rootsweb.com 3. mailto:fermanagh-gold@rootsweb.com 4. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ 5. mailto:IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com 6. mailto:IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com 7. mailto:IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com 8. mailto:IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com

Groom:- William Pigott Bride:- Elizabeth Browne Grooms Father:- John Piggot Brides Father John Browne Date of Marriage 18/9/1847 PARISH:-Rathvilly Groom:- Samuel Cooke Bride:- Hannah Jackson Grooms Father:- William Cooke Brides Father Thomas Jackson Date of Marriage 18/11/1847 PARISH:-Rathvilly Groom:- Laurence Kealey Bride:- Eliza Dunne Grooms Father:- John Kealey Brides Father Hugh Dunne Date of Marriage 1/11/1847 PARISH:-Rathvilly Groom:- Jane Atkinson Bride:- William Poland ( Polard)? Grooms Father:- Thomas Atkinson Brides Father William Poland (Pollard?) Date of Marriage 21/11/1853 PARISH:-Rathvilly Groom:- John Nue ( New) Bride:- Alice Eyles Grooms Father:- Henry Nue ( New) Brides Father William Eyles Date of Marriage 19/8/1852 PARISH:-Rathvilly Groom:- David Dagg Bride:- Francis Giltrap Grooms Father:- James Dagg Brides Father James Giltrap Date of Marriage 27/9/1860 PARISH:-Rathvilly Cheers Cara