More records added to the Dunleckney Parish Registers for 1842: http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Baptism_Dunleckney_32.htm Regards Michael Brennan Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm

Hi Turtle I have added your document (Col Kane Bunbury) at the following link: http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Bunbury_Document_10.htm I have also added a link to Bunbury and Purcell papers to Brown Clayton: http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Robert_Browne_Clayton_Papers_index.htm Regards Michael Brennan Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm From: Turtle Bunbury Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:21 PM To: Michael Brennan Subject: Fwd: Complete List........................................... Hi Michael, Sorry if I am repeating myself here but when Mick sends you all these amazing emails, are you uploading them all onto Rootsweb and if so, where do I find them? I'm not sure how much interest it is but the attached is a very flowery obituary to Col Kane Bunbury of Rathmore, Co. Carlow. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With best wishes, Turtle

In 1922, with no police force or national army formally established in the newly formed Irish Free State, the 26 Counties was slipping into a state of anarchy and lawlessness with many robberies, score-settling and crimes of all kinds being committed daily. A Republican Police Force was doing its best to maintain order. Republican Courts were set up to administer justice. The first Republican Court session authorised by the Irish Free State Government held in Carlow Court House, February 1922. with Adjudicators appointed in place of Magistrates and Judges. Nationalist and Leinster Times newspaper in the PPP. Sitting of the Carlow Republican District Court. Adjudicators. Seamus Lennon, Michael Governey, Sean O' Byrne. At the opening of the Carlow District Republican Court, Mr Seamus Lennon said he wished to make it clear that the Court derived its jurisdiction from the Republic, which was still in existence, and under which no alien court could function. They were appointed under the authority of Dail Eireann and drew their jurisdiction from that body and nobody else. Mr Michael Governey said --I take it that Mr Lennon has not made the statement you have listened to for any political motive, and as far being self-appointed justices, we are not. We have been appointed by the people, and shall insist on law and order being respected, and that our rulings and decisions must be carried out. No doubt a dark cloud is hanging over Ireland at present, and I hear some people are taking advantage of the state of affairs existing just now, but I for one, sincerely hope that wiser counsels may soon prevail.

Hi Terry, any chance of those images, if you get a chance. They'd be most appreciated. Cheers, Peter

Came across this useful link elsewhere: http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/

We had a good off-line response to the "Military Barrack content List", we will publish a complete list of the IRA Inventory soon. In the meantime we will detail a few of the events that took place in Carlow during the months that the British Army were confined to barracks all over Ireland , and covering the period that The Anglo- Irish Treaty was signed --- 6th December 1921. The following account records the concerns of the Gentry during this period, who as ever with their finger on the pulse of the nation outline their priorities (two days after the treaty was signed ! ). Old newspapers in the PPP. January 1922. To the Editor "Nationalist and Leinster Times" Lisnevagh, Rathvilly, County Carlow. Sir- - I have received the following letter from Her Excellency The Viscountess Fitzalan, and would ask you to be good enough to publish it, with my accompanying notice, in the next two issues of your paper :- Vice Regal Lodge, Dublin, 8th December 1921, Dear Lady Rathdonnell -- I feel sure that the women of Ireland would wish to offer a present to Her Royal Highness, Princess Mary, on the occasion of her marriage. Subject to your approval, I would suggest that the wife of The Lieutenant in Carlow should form a committee of the ladies in the county to collect money for this purpose, that women only should be invited to contribute, and that the subscriptions should be from one shilling upwards, so that poor and rich may be able to subscribe. I would suggest that the subscriptions from each county should be sent to me at the Vice Regal Lodge, Dublin, and that we all meet to decide what form the present should take. No Doubt we should agree it should be something made in Ireland. - Yours sincerely, MARY FITZALAN. In response to the above I am ready to receive any subscriptions, which can be sent to me personally , or to any of the following members of the Committee, who have kindly consented to receive them:- Mrs Bruen, Oak Park ; Mrs. Bagenal, Benekerry ; Mrs. Browne-Clayton, Browne's Hill ; Mrs. Kavanagh, Borris ; Mrs. Lecky, Ballykealy ; Mrs. Vessy, Dunleckney ; Mrs. Lecky-Watson, Lumclone, Fenagh. The subscription list will be closed on January 14th. 1922. KATHERINE A. RATHDONNELL.

TO THE ELECTORS OF THE COUNTY OF CARLOW GENTLEMEN, I addressed you from London last week, as a candidate for the representation of our County in Parliament. On my arrival in Carlow, on Friday night, I immediately turned my attention to the consideration of the prospects of success that awaited me. I find, after a most careful enquiry, that in consequence of the state of the Register, the votes of many Independent Liberals are lost. I find that in consequence of the late period at which I announced myself as a Candidate, some, who would have received me favourably, at an earlier period, are now pledged to my opponents. As I know that on me must rest the responsibility of disturbing the peace of the County, and, perhaps, in some cases causing disunion and ill-feeling between Landlords and their Tenantry, I have determined, with the concurrence of friends who have so kindly given me their advice and assistance, to withdraw from the present contest. To continue it without expectation of success would neither be fair to my opponents nor honest to my supporters. I cannot make this announcement without expressing my warmest gratitude to the Liberal party generally for a promise of support far beyond my deserts, and to those with whom I have communicated during the short time I have been in the county, for the kind feeling expressed towards me. If the result of the present Election shall have the effect of rousing those who should be the leaders of the Liberal Party to a sense of their won strength when properly directed, their weakness when apathetic or indifferent to the registration, I shall have the satisfaction of feeling that I have been of some service to the Liberal cause. I have the honour, to be, Gentlemen, Our obedient servant, FREDERICK PONSONBY April 2nd, 1857

>From the PPP. Following the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in December 1921 the British Army were preparing to withdraw from Ireland. The following inventory of the contents of the Military Barracks, Carlow was compiled by members of the Irish Republican Army in February 1922.. OUTDOORS : in yard and sheds. Estimated 6 ton of barbed wire ; five ladders , 10 ff, 15ft. 25ft, 30ft, 45ft ; eight galvanized iron canisters ; piles of straw mattresses ; two old spiked cannon pieces with metal wheels ; 34 cannonballs ; quantity of broken and rusted weapons, 5 bayonets, 24 lances, 20 rifles, numerous sword pieces, staffs. 3 cwt. sack ouncil ; 5 earthenware gallon casks ; two horse carts ; large copper vat ; a large variety of 58 sweeping brushes ; 25 shovels ; 5 picks ; barrack brazing; 20 hurricane lamps ; 80 barrack lamps ; chaff cutting machine ; a dozen vices ; 62 platform posts, high, medium and low ; metal piping ; large delivery of new covered timber ; larger quantity of corrugated iron 6ft and 10ft ; quantity of expanded metal 8" x 4" ; 6 tins of red and white paint ; 3 gallons of varnish ; 5 barrows ; 8 rolls of wire netting ; 10 x 30 gallon barrels ; slabs and approximately 500 new slates ; 3 anvils ; 4 sets of drain brushes ; 4 axes ; 4 x 30 gallon water tanks with taps ; approximately 400 new bricks ; scantlings, all sizes ; 5 new stoves ; variety of 25 packed crates ;. barrel of kerosene ; 12 saddles and horse dressings ; The coal and turf shed was emptied and coalbuckets removed by people who reside in the locality. INDOORS: HALL : Upright Grand piano by Foster. 2 office desks and 2 castor chairs with arms ; on shelf , account books , quantity of old maps and folders ; 2 jars of ink ; box of new pens ; I large locked safe by Saltburn, 1 smaller unlocked safe by Withers ; new pull porter machine ; one chest of books. one military travel desk with handles ; one folding travel officers chair ;' 3 blackboards with easels ; box of coloured chalk; 40 lockers ; 10 Officers chests of drawers ; over 200 chairs ; 80 small desks ; mixture of several hundred bed linens and barrack sheets ; MILITARY CANTEEN :. Upright piano by Foster ; 1 new pull porter machine ; 100 glasses ; 300 various forms of delph ; boxs of utensils ; 150 tables ; numerous trestles many sizes ; bagatelle ; 8 mixed size drums with drumsticks ; 4 saddle drums with leather straps ; dozens of empty glass and earthenware empty bottles; 4 card tables ; 4 Officers tables ; brass weights ; 15 ft long mahogany counter top ; 4 wash buckets. SLEEPING QUARTERS: . 10 japanned washstands ; 10 marbletop washstands ; 50 painted washstands ; 19 chests of drawers ; 15 reclining baths ; 50 sponge baths ; 50 sitz baths ; numerous bedsteads ; large quantity of bolsters ; 80 wooden bed screens ; 50 clothes-horses ; great mixture of several hundred bed linens and barrack sheets; 120 bedside wooden desks ; large quantity of wooden lockers ; 12 crates of reading and account books ; HOSPITAL: . 18 hospital beds , 100 tables, large office table, large 8 sided table , an enormous lot of provisions, bags of flour, preserved meat ,tinned meat, sack of salt, tins of biscuits, tea, sugar, dozens of jars and containers of medical supplies, pills, tonics, rubs, medicines.; medical implements; washing soda, 4 vats of disinfecting fluid ; washing powder , box of soap ; tins of bandages, slings, patches. KITCHEN: . 2 butchers blocks ; 40 cooking implements ; large metal cooking range ; 20 scuttles ;8 copper coal buckets ; 4 large enamelled stone sinks ; large centre table 12 ft x 5 ft. ; weighing scales and 8 weights ; Large hand decorated sign ~~ARMY, NAVY AND AIR FORCE MILITARY CANTEEN ~~

Afternoon all, Pathe have just released a lot of fascinating silent footage such as: A British concentration camp for Irish prisoners circa 1918: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17781 The Irish Dail and opposition in 1922 - http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=22732 - is anybody able to identify any of the "cabinet" members in either group? Is that Cathal Brugha who looks so intimidated by (I presume) Countess Markiewicz? Collins on the campaign trail - http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=18845 - the crowd scenes do make Brian and Enda look kind of wimpy. Have fun! Turtle Turtle Bunbury www.turtlebunbury.com Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland Mob: + 353 - (0) 87 - 6453 486 Skype: turtle1847 Turtle Bunbury is a best-selling author and travel writer based in Ireland. He will be speaking at the Princess Grace Irish Library in Monaco on Monday 15th February 2010. His subject will be 'Around the World in 1847 - An Irish Perspective'. Turtle's acclaimed 'Your History in a Book' venture offers an innovative way to transform your family history into a compelling read. Turtle's seventh book, Vanishing Ireland - Further Chronicles of a Disappearing World, with photographer James Fennell, was the 5th biggest selling hardback - and the top-selling Picture Book - in Ireland's non-fiction charts over Christmas 2009.

Thank you for sharing this amazing footage. It has given me more of an understanding of my family history in the Carlow area. In a message dated 2/8/2010 11:31:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nolanme@verizon.net writes: What an amazing archive of footage. Thank you, Turtle, for sharing this link. ----- Original Message ----- From: Turtle Bunbury To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Footage of Ireland 1918-1919 Afternoon all, Pathe have just released a lot of fascinating silent footage such as: A British concentration camp for Irish prisoners circa 1918: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17781 The Irish Dail and opposition in 1922 - http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=22732 - is anybody able to identify any of the "cabinet" members in either group? Is that Cathal Brugha who looks so intimidated by (I presume) Countess Markiewicz? Collins on the campaign trail - http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=18845 - the crowd scenes do make Brian and Enda look kind of wimpy. Have fun! Turtle Turtle Bunbury www.turtlebunbury.com Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland Mob: + 353 - (0) 87 - 6453 486 Skype: turtle1847 Turtle Bunbury is a best-selling author and travel writer based in Ireland. He will be speaking at the Princess Grace Irish Library in Monaco on Monday 15th February 2010. His subject will be 'Around the World in 1847 - An Irish Perspective'. Turtle's acclaimed 'Your History in a Book' venture offers an innovative way to transform your family history into a compelling read. Turtle's seventh book, Vanishing Ireland - Further Chronicles of a Disappearing World, with photographer James Fennell, was the 5th biggest selling hardback - and the top-selling Picture Book - in Ireland's non-fiction charts over Christmas 2009. ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What an amazing archive of footage. Thank you, Turtle, for sharing this link. ----- Original Message ----- From: Turtle Bunbury To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Footage of Ireland 1918-1919 Afternoon all, Pathe have just released a lot of fascinating silent footage such as: A British concentration camp for Irish prisoners circa 1918: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17781 The Irish Dail and opposition in 1922 - http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=22732 - is anybody able to identify any of the "cabinet" members in either group? Is that Cathal Brugha who looks so intimidated by (I presume) Countess Markiewicz? Collins on the campaign trail - http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=18845 - the crowd scenes do make Brian and Enda look kind of wimpy. Have fun! Turtle Turtle Bunbury www.turtlebunbury.com Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland Mob: + 353 - (0) 87 - 6453 486 Skype: turtle1847 Turtle Bunbury is a best-selling author and travel writer based in Ireland. He will be speaking at the Princess Grace Irish Library in Monaco on Monday 15th February 2010. His subject will be 'Around the World in 1847 - An Irish Perspective'. Turtle's acclaimed 'Your History in a Book' venture offers an innovative way to transform your family history into a compelling read. Turtle's seventh book, Vanishing Ireland - Further Chronicles of a Disappearing World, with photographer James Fennell, was the 5th biggest selling hardback - and the top-selling Picture Book - in Ireland's non-fiction charts over Christmas 2009. ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I wonder if anyone can remember the Sailors showband from Bagenalstown c.1960's: http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Sailors_showband.htm this link will take you to a photo of the band plus a list of names. Regards Michael Brennan Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm

Hi Bill You may have read this before but just in case you haven't; from 1818 & 1822 a description of Gentleman and Esquire posted on my site. http://home.people.net.au/~ousie/esquires_&_gentlemen.htm I recall in the late '60's, that many of the graziers had the title Esq., added to their names on the envelopes of their correspondence where I worked. Susie > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:17:31 +1100 > From: "Bill Webster" <wbwebster@internode.on.net> > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Esq. and Gent. > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000301caa7b4$d9fda0f0$8df8e2d0$@on.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The following is typical of entries to some government records I have been > inspecting: > > > 1821 (477) (Ireland) Grand Jury Presentments, Dublin (pp. 43 - 44): > > "To L. Crosthwaite, P. Roe and R. Shaw, esqrs. and George Halpin, gent, to > repair 76 perches of road from Ringsend bridge to Artichoak road, between > said bridge and Beggar's Bush road...?159 12 0." > > > The "esquires" concerned were merchants of no particular family standing, > wealthy, successful, on some company and banking boards and civic > committees, undoubtedly property owners, possibly landlords. > > The "gentleman" was also well-to-do, largely self-made, a property owner > and > city landlord but also of a hands-on nature, the "Inspector" appointed by > two civic corporations. > > All came from a background of education and industry, erudition and > ambition. > > May I therefore revisit the old debate about the distinction between an > esq(ire) and a gent(leman)? The best summation that I have found is at > Wikipedia but even there the editors ask for the article to have more > grounding and references. Even by the 1700s I think it was too archaic to > hark back to esquire deriving from the squires of knights, certainly by > the > 1800s. Knights had not had squires for 500 years. So, what did 1820s > publications mean by such epithets? What was the implied distinction > between an esquire and a gentleman? > > > I have put this query to another list and there have been a number of > replies but I thought I should put it to the learned subscribers here too. > > Bill. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the IRL-CARLOW list administrator, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of IRL-CARLOW Digest, Vol 5, Issue 85 > ***************************************** > > > __________ NOD32 4841 (20100206) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > part000.txt - is OK > > http://www.eset.com > >

Thanks to J.J and Patricia for their help with Bagenalstown House information: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/Bagenalstown_House.htm Regards Michael Brennan Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm

The following is typical of entries to some government records I have been inspecting: 1821 (477) (Ireland) Grand Jury Presentments, Dublin (pp. 43 - 44): "To L. Crosthwaite, P. Roe and R. Shaw, esqrs. and George Halpin, gent, to repair 76 perches of road from Ringsend bridge to Artichoak road, between said bridge and Beggar's Bush road...£159 12 0." The "esquires" concerned were merchants of no particular family standing, wealthy, successful, on some company and banking boards and civic committees, undoubtedly property owners, possibly landlords. The "gentleman" was also well-to-do, largely self-made, a property owner and city landlord but also of a hands-on nature, the "Inspector" appointed by two civic corporations. All came from a background of education and industry, erudition and ambition. May I therefore revisit the old debate about the distinction between an esq(ire) and a gent(leman)? The best summation that I have found is at Wikipedia but even there the editors ask for the article to have more grounding and references. Even by the 1700s I think it was too archaic to hark back to esquire deriving from the squires of knights, certainly by the 1800s. Knights had not had squires for 500 years. So, what did 1820s publications mean by such epithets? What was the implied distinction between an esquire and a gentleman? I have put this query to another list and there have been a number of replies but I thought I should put it to the learned subscribers here too. Bill.

Hi Michael - The earliest reference I can see online is 1766 when the house appears to be mentioned in relation to Michael CARTER but is said to be the property of the BAGENAL family. John NEWTON is recorded there in the family tree of his mother Sarah WESTROP (said to be the natural daughter of Beauchamp BAGENAL) who married Col Philip NEWTON in 1785, according to online sources. 1837 Samuel Lewis directory has Miss NEWTON as occupant. 1841 there is an online reference to John NEWTON of Bagenalstown House. 'The Peerage' website has John NEWTON as High Sherrif of County Carlow in 1856 - he died in 1859. 1884 Thoms Directory gives occupant as PERSSE, Walter Blakeney, who died in 1889 (per Dunleckney headstone incription online).. The house appears to have reverted to the BAGENAL family after this, with a Beauchamp Walter BAGENAL recorded as living there in the 20th century. The Muinebheag Town Council was discussing vandalism to this protected structure as recently as March 2009 so perhaps a letter/call to them might bring some information and/or clarification of the above and the origins of the building. Hope this provides a lead of some sort. Regards, Patsy - New Zealand Website: http://www.loanegenealogy.webs.com Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Bagenalstown House There are two Gentry houses which were mentioned in CARLOW GENTRY by Jimmy O'Toole 1993., but no details about the specific houses and who the families were. One of those was Ballinabranna House. The second house was Bagenalstown House: http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Bagenalstown­_House.htm I cant find any information on Bagenalstown House anywhere so I am hoping that someone can help me find out who built the house and when? The only info I have been able to find is that a Mr. John Newton lived there at one time but I have no date for this event. Regards Michael Brennan

There are several hundred lists of Grand Jury members for Carlow in the PPP dating from the mid-18th century to late 19th century. Many times for the same person his title may vary on the lists, depending on the recording clerk...for instance one year Mr Bagenal is identified as "Gent" and the following year as "Esquire" another year he is described as Mr Bagenal, Esquire, Gent. I would have thought that "Esquire" would indicate that the person named was employed or of "Rank" whereas "Gent" might indicate that the person lived, somehow or another, on family investments / land / "old money" or whatever but did not have to work for a living. I have also noticed that in the case of Benjamin Bunbury who when acting as "Magistrate" has "Esquire" attached to his name but on the Voting or Jury Lists the same man is described as "Gent". Looks to me like one man's "Gent" was another man's "Esquire" Back in the 60s 70s I was the recipient of many letters addressing me as "Esquire" and all I had was a little huckster's shop (selling everything from the most varied selection of coloured sewing treads in Carlow to turnips (we also had a wine licence !). I had so little money that I knew if I did not work today I would have no money tomorrow, --nothings changed much on that score ..so much for Michael Purcell ,Esquire. On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Susie Warren <ousie@people.net.au> wrote: > Hi Bill > > You may have read this before but just in case you haven't; > from 1818 & 1822 a description of Gentleman and Esquire > posted on my site. > > http://home.people.net.au/~ousie/esquires_&_gentlemen.htm > > I recall in the late '60's, that many of the graziers had the title Esq., > added to their names on the envelopes of their correspondence where > I worked. > > Susie > > > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:17:31 +1100 > > From: "Bill Webster" <wbwebster@internode.on.net> > > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Esq. and Gent. > > To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> > > Message-ID: <000301caa7b4$d9fda0f0$8df8e2d0$@on.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > The following is typical of entries to some government records I have > been > > inspecting: > > > > > > 1821 (477) (Ireland) Grand Jury Presentments, Dublin (pp. 43 - 44): > > > > "To L. Crosthwaite, P. Roe and R. Shaw, esqrs. and George Halpin, gent, > to > > repair 76 perches of road from Ringsend bridge to Artichoak road, between > > said bridge and Beggar's Bush road...?159 12 0." > > > > > > The "esquires" concerned were merchants of no particular family standing, > > wealthy, successful, on some company and banking boards and civic > > committees, undoubtedly property owners, possibly landlords. > > > > The "gentleman" was also well-to-do, largely self-made, a property owner > > and > > city landlord but also of a hands-on nature, the "Inspector" appointed by > > two civic corporations. > > > > All came from a background of education and industry, erudition and > > ambition. > > > > May I therefore revisit the old debate about the distinction between an > > esq(ire) and a gent(leman)? The best summation that I have found is at > > Wikipedia but even there the editors ask for the article to have more > > grounding and references. Even by the 1700s I think it was too archaic > to > > hark back to esquire deriving from the squires of knights, certainly by > > the > > 1800s. Knights had not had squires for 500 years. So, what did 1820s > > publications mean by such epithets? What was the implied distinction > > between an esquire and a gentleman? > > > > > > I have put this query to another list and there have been a number of > > replies but I thought I should put it to the learned subscribers here > too. > > > > Bill. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > To contact the IRL-CARLOW list administrator, send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > > To post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list, send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW@rootsweb.com. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > of the > > email with no additional text. > > > > > > End of IRL-CARLOW Digest, Vol 5, Issue 85 > > ***************************************** > > > > > > __________ NOD32 4841 (20100206) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > part000.txt - is OK > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My great, great grandmother was *Sarah Eliza Douglas,* born about 1822 in Carlow, Her father was *Marlborough Douglas*, and mother was *Sarah Rowe*. My great, great grandfather was *Thomas Trueman*. He was born in Carlow about 1820. I have no other information about him. They were married in Carlow about 1847. It seems probable that they arrived in Australia in May 1853 on board the "Marco Polo" which sailed from Liverpool UK. The name Marlborough is an unusual first name, and the name Douglas does not seem to be very common in Ireland. It seems likely that the name Marlborough is one that the family might re-use over many generations. I'd like to find out more information about the connections and other information relating to *Douglas family* *Trueman family* *Rowe family* in the early 1800's and before - or since - in Carlow or other parts of Ireland. Any ideas of how, when and why the Trueman family and Douglas family came to Ireland from the UK would be welcome Chris Trueman Melbourne, Australia

Here is a link about Ballinabranna House: http://www.colliersjs.com/news180.htm J. J. On 7 February 2010 00:37, JJ Woods <woodsjj@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Michael, > > the only information I can find is what is included in Marck Bence-Jones' > book "A Guide to Irish country Houses".. > > Bagenalstown House. A 2 storey Georgian house with a front of 2 curved bows > joined by a conservatory. The home of Mr. John Hedges Becher (of the family > of Fecher/IFR, but not actually included in the pedigree). > > There is no mention of Ballinabranna House. > > J. J. > > > > > > On 6 February 2010 21:15, Michael Brennan <mjbrennan@blueyonder.co.uk>wrote: > >> There are two Gentry houses which were mentioned in CARLOW GENTRY by >> Jimmy >> O'Toole 1993., but no details about the specific houses and who the >> families >> were. One of those was Ballinabranna House. The second house was >> Bagenalstown House: >> http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Bagenalstown­_House.htm >> >> I cant find any information on Bagenalstown House anywhere so I am hoping >> that someone can help me find out who built the house and when? >> >> The only info I have been able to find is that a Mr. John Newton lived >> there >> at one time but I have no date for this event. >> >> Regards >> >> Michael Brennan >> >> Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ >> My Laois Page: >> http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Hi Michael, the only information I can find is what is included in Marck Bence-Jones' book "A Guide to Irish country Houses".. Bagenalstown House. A 2 storey Georgian house with a front of 2 curved bows joined by a conservatory. The home of Mr. John Hedges Becher (of the family of Fecher/IFR, but not actually included in the pedigree). There is no mention of Ballinabranna House. J. J. On 6 February 2010 21:15, Michael Brennan <mjbrennan@blueyonder.co.uk>wrote: > There are two Gentry houses which were mentioned in CARLOW GENTRY by Jimmy > O'Toole 1993., but no details about the specific houses and who the > families > were. One of those was Ballinabranna House. The second house was > Bagenalstown House: > http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Bagenalstown­_House.htm > > I cant find any information on Bagenalstown House anywhere so I am hoping > that someone can help me find out who built the house and when? > > The only info I have been able to find is that a Mr. John Newton lived > there > at one time but I have no date for this event. > > Regards > > Michael Brennan > > Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ > My Laois Page: > http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm > > > > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >