Just thought I would let the list know that the following Famine Relief Commission Papers, 1844-1847 are online at Ancestry.com. Very interesting reading folks.. Happy St Patrick's Day Treacy _________________________________________________________________ Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/

Dear friends of Carlow, Find below the text of President McAleese's greeting to all Irish, everywhere, for St. Patrick's day. Best, Bill Gawne http://www.president.ie/index.php?section=5&speech=771&lang=eng Saint Patrick?s Day message from President McAleese Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig ar chlann mhór dhomhanda na nGael, sa bhaile agus ar fud na cruinne, ar ár lá náisiúnta ceiliúrtha féin. Warmest greetings to everyone who is celebrating Saint Patrick's Day 2010, wherever you are in the world. On this day we set aside our problems and remember the joy in life that comes from good company and the celebration of a great culture. Saint Patrick's Day is a time for fun and laughter, for showcasing the best of the Irish and for demonstrating our pride in homeland and heritage. Saint Patrick's own life story is worth remembering during these tough times for he himself faced and overcame great personal hardship that tested him to the limits. The family of the Gael gathers in his name in Ireland and in many diverse parts of the world. We are lucky to have such a large global family. It has proved itself to be a very precious and important resource in every generation. In recent years it has been an indispensable enabler of the Peace Process which is consolidating and strengthening little by little. Northern Ireland is enjoying the longest continuous period of devolved power-sharing since the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. The recent Hillsborough Agreement was another significant step in the completion of devolution and represents an important milestone on the path to long-term stability and normalisation. It took considerable generosity of spirit on all sides to secure this historic peace and we can look forward to the many benefits of a rapidly growing culture of good neighbourliness instead of wasteful division. The commitment of our global Irish family is now being harnessed as never before with initiatives like the Farmleigh Conference and the new Global Irish Network, all intent on putting their talents and ideas at the service of Ireland's economic recovery. Thanks to our global family the link with Ireland has been kept alive over generations and our culture introduced to countless millions throughout the world. Saint Patrick's Day is marked and relished in a myriad of places in a celebration that is both local and global and that is quintessentially Irish yet warmly welcoming of friends from other cultures and traditions. So whether you are parading down the street of a small rural Irish village or one of the largest cities in the world, Saint Patrick's Day parade is a shared celebration with the same deep pride and love of life and of community at its heart. To every Irish person and to every friend of Ireland, I wish you a happy and enjoyable Saint Patrick's Day 2010.

Thanks, Michael. I am just beginning my Carlow search and those military pages are a great resource! Deb DEBORAH LARGE FOX Read my blog for Irish research tips: "Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors!" http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

Deborah Have you checked out the Military section on the Carlow website? http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/military_index.htm Regards Michael Brennan Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm -------------------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:43:53 -0400 > From: "Deborah Fox" <deborahlargefox@gmail.com> > Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] British army in Carlow > Anyone know the locations of any British army barracks from the late > 1700's > to mid 1800's in Co. Carlow? Deb > DEBORAH LARGE FOX > Read my blog for Irish research tips: "Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My > Ancestors!" > http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com >

Hi Listers Gravestone located at Purewa Cemetery, St Johns, Auckland, New Zealand: Arthur Dunscombe ALLEN Born 15th February 1882 at Bagenalstown, Ireland Died 5th March 1969 At Auckland The dearly beloved husband of Majory ALLEN "Yet will I rejoice in the Lord" Regards Liz Auckland ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael purcell" <carlowmike@gmail.com> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:05 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW]Bunbury+Curran+Aughney+Cummins+Fishbourne+Eustace+Burton. 20th February 1835. Stephen Aughney states before J. Eustace of Castlemore that he lives in Roscat in the Parish of Ardistan, Barony of Rathvilly that he is worth the Sum of £5.00 over and above his just debts. 3rd March 1814. Nicholas Cummins of Seskinmadra in the Parish of Slyguf, Barony of Idrone East, states that he is worth the Sum of £20.00 over and above his just debts. 8th May, 1824. John Curran of Carlow, Swears before William Fishbourne, that he is a Householder and has a House in the Town of Carlow, in the Parish of Carlow and that he supports and maintains himself by Tailoring and he is worth the Sum of £5.00 over and above his just Debts. (Gentry at it !). 7th March 1818. (could be 1810 ?) Edward Burton of Pollerton, Carlow, who is Bonded by William Burton of Bruton Hall, in the Parish of Urglin and Joseph Fishbourne of Strawhall, Carlow, must appear in Carlow Sessions to answer all such Matters and Things, as shall be objected against him (Edward Burton) on behalf of our Said Lord the King by Henry and Ebenezer Bunbury . (signed) William Fishbourne. Magistrate. ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I hope this works , copy of the 1911 Census Return in Irish,referred to by Sean J. Murphy in previous email. The following images relating to the 1911 Census return for the Galvin family <http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/2068152/nai001916293/>of Castle Town, DED Castletown, County Cork (reproduced courtesy of the National Archives) well demonstrate this problem.

Sean J. Murphy M.A. of the Centre for Irish Genealogical and Historical Studies referred to the the Gaelic Census Return Forms in his review of March 2009. The sample Returns mentioned below may be viewed on Google, as they may not transfer on this email. Here is extract of Sean's findings. The case of Murreagh noted below can only be described as particularly unacceptable, where 9 of the 23 1911 Census returns were completed in Irish and simply left unindexed and untranslated, despite English versions of the surnames being provided in the Enumerator’s Form B1. It is indeed ironic that the British regime had less trouble organising the translation of early twentieth century census forms completed in Gaelic than public servants in an independent Ireland a century later. Copies of the 1911 Census return and the blank online index entry for the family of Seán Ághas (John Ashe) of Murreagh are appended below again for purposes of comparison (Appendix 2). It will be noted that the Gaelic forms of surnames are more complicated than the English forms, and I suggest that they should firstly be indexed exactly with the various prefixes (Ua, Ó, Uí, Ní, Mac, Nic) followed by a space and the name proper, and then cross-referenced to English translations, which should follow the admittedly inexact but nonetheless established conventions of placing an apostrophe after the O (O’X) and leaving no space after the Mc (McX). The following images relating to the 1911 Census return for the Galvin family of Castle Town, DED Castletown, County Cork (reproduced courtesy of the National Archives) well demonstrate this problem. This census form is 'indexed' as follows on the National Archives site: (Google) The present writer is not a well-paid public servant with holiday, sick-leave, conference travel, 'privilege day' and work expenses entitlements, but I will take the time nonetheless to point out to senior Archives staff, all of whom should be at least as familiar with the Irish lanaguage as myself, how to go about deciphering the above 1911 Census form. The task is admittedly complicated by the use of An Cló Gaelach or old Gaelic script, but this should not be a problem for those in their 50s or older who were trained at school to use this style before its replacement with An Cló Rómánach or modern script. Of course, the contemporary enumerator's form B.1, also online, helps us out immediately by listing the head of the family as Patrick Galvin (again, how ironic that the British regime could handle Gaelic translations better than Irish officials today). Secondly, with the aid of Woulfe's Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall and MacLysaght's Surnames of Ireland, supplemented where necessary with a good Irish-English dictionary, the above details can be transcribed and translated as follows, with some inevitable uncertainties indicated by question marks: Pádraig Ó Gealbháin/Patrick Galvin, head of family Máire Bean Uí Ghealbháin/Mary? Galvin, wife Mairghréad Ní Ghealbháin/Margaret Galvin, daughter Caitlín Ní Ghealbháin/Kathleen? Galvin, daughter Nóra Ní Raghallaigh/Nora (O?)Reilly, servant It should be noted that Máire can sometimes be translated as Maria or Maura, Caitlín sometimes as Catherine, while the 'O' prefix was not always used in the English version of the surname. The incorporation of entries such as the above in an online database is admittedly not easy but could be achieved with proper consultation and planning. Indeed the problem of Gaelic entries emphasises the need for a proper soundex or variant form search facility, which is lacking on the National Archives site, as well as doubly underlining the necessity to have a standardised system of dealing with 'O' and 'Mac' surnames (again, my advice is to employ the received forms, eg, O'Sullivan, McCarthy). Now this is just the sort of tutorial which I had in mind when I offered to visit the National Archives free of charge and advise senior staff on the census project, which offer as noted above was ignored. I am keenly aware that the census project is a complex one and that I do not possess all the answers, but it would appear that I do have some useful ideas to impart. To conclude, I do not wish to reflect unfairly on Library and Archives Canada, which is stated to have been contracted by the National Archives to carry out most of the work on the online census project, but how could such a respected repository issue a product so flawed as that which is under review? In particular, the treatment of census forms completed in Gaelic is equivalent to an Irish body contracting to index Canadian census returns and leaving any French-language forms encountered untranslated and unindexed. Of course the primary responsibility for the deficiencies of the online census project lies with the National Archives, which would appear to have farmed out the indexing of the censuses to people woefully uneducated concerning the English forms of Irish surnames and completely ignorant of their Gaelic forms. Once again I call on the Director and senior staff of the National Archives to pause work on the census online project until the problems outlined here have been resolved and if necessary to stand aside and pass the task on to more competent agents. Addendum II, 16 July 2009 While not stooping to acknowledge this report on the online census project properly, senior National Archives staff are showing more signs of tacitly acknowledging criticisms which were formerly ignored or dismissed out of hand. In particular, a belated attempt is being made to deal with the particularly embarrassing failure to make provision for the translation of census returns completed in Gaelic. It would appear that a special effort is being made to deal with the County Kerry returns highlighted above, and having secured the services of someone with a knowledge of Gaelic, transcriptions of forms completed in that language are being added to the online database. However, English translations of the surnames still appear to be strangely absent, so that for example, in the townland of Murreagh the dashes noted above have been replaced with Gaelic names only, which will leave those with a little or no knowledge of the language at a disadvantage. To spell this out, what good is it to index families known to descendants in the United States of America only as 'Kevane' or 'Ashe' in the unfamiliar forms 'Ua Caomháin' or 'Ághas'? Indeed such is the real as opposed to the professed degree of knowledge of Gaelic in Ireland, that there will be more than a few in this country who would be left struggling by this failure of comprehensive indexing. Furthermore, there are signs of confusion in these belated amendments, as for example in the case of the O'Sullivan family of Derrynid Townland, Dawross DED, County Kerry, where one entry is translated but garbled over two lines and the other entries merely transcribed: The following images relating to the 1911 Census return for the Galvin family of Castle Town, DED Castletown, County Cork (reproduced courtesy of the National Archives) well demonstrate this problem. This census form is 'indexed' as follows on the National Archives site: The present writer is not a well-paid public servant with holiday, sick-leave, conference travel, 'privilege day' and work expenses entitlements, but I will take the time nonetheless to point out to senior Archives staff, all of whom should be at least as familiar with the Irish lanaguage as myself, how to go about deciphering the above 1911 Census form. The task is admittedly complicated by the use of An Cló Gaelach or old Gaelic script, but this should not be a problem for those in their 50s or older who were trained at school to use this style before its replacement with An Cló Rómánach or modern script. Of course, the contemporary enumerator's form B.1, also online, helps us out immediately by listing the head of the family as Patrick Galvin (again, how ironic that the British regime could handle Gaelic translations better than Irish officials today). Secondly, with the aid of Woulfe's Sloinnte Gaedheal is Gall and MacLysaght's Surnames of Ireland, supplemented where necessary with a good Irish-English dictionary, the above details can be transcribed and translated as follows, with some inevitable uncertainties indicated by question marks: Pádraig Ó Gealbháin/Patrick Galvin, head of family Máire Bean Uí Ghealbháin/Mary? Galvin, wife Mairghréad Ní Ghealbháin/Margaret Galvin, daughter Caitlín Ní Ghealbháin/Kathleen? Galvin, daughter Nóra Ní Raghallaigh/Nora (O?)Reilly, servant It should be noted that Máire can sometimes be translated as Maria or Maura, Caitlín sometimes as Catherine, while the 'O' prefix was not always used in the English version of the surname. The incorporation of entries such as the above in an online database is admittedly not easy but could be achieved with proper consultation and planning. Indeed the problem of Gaelic entries emphasises the need for a proper soundex or variant form search facility, which is lacking on the National Archives site, as well as doubly underlining the necessity to have a standardised system of dealing with 'O' and 'Mac' surnames (again, my advice is to employ the received forms, eg, O'Sullivan, McCarthy). Now this is just the sort of tutorial which I had in mind when I offered to visit the National Archives free of charge and advise senior staff on the census project, which offer as noted above was ignored. I am keenly aware that the census project is a complex one and that I do not possess all the answers, but it would appear that I do have some useful ideas to impart. To conclude, I do not wish to reflect unfairly on Library and Archives Canada, which is stated to have been contracted by the National Archives to carry out most of the work on the online census project, but how could such a respected repository issue a product so flawed as that which is under review? In particular, the treatment of census forms completed in Gaelic is equivalent to an Irish body contracting to index Canadian census returns and leaving any French-language forms encountered untranslated and unindexed. Of course the primary responsibility for the deficiencies of the online census project lies with the National Archives, which would appear to have farmed out the indexing of the censuses to people woefully uneducated concerning the English forms of Irish surnames and completely ignorant of their Gaelic forms. Once again I call on the Director and senior staff of the National Archives to pause work on the census online project until the problems outlined here have been resolved and if necessary to stand aside and pass the task on to more competent agents. Addendum II, 16 July 2009 While not stooping to acknowledge this report on the online census project properly, senior National Archives staff are showing more signs of tacitly acknowledging criticisms which were formerly ignored or dismissed out of hand. In particular, a belated attempt is being made to deal with the particularly embarrassing failure to make provision for the translation of census returns completed in Gaelic. It would appear that a special effort is being made to deal with the County Kerry returns highlighted above, and having secured the services of someone with a knowledge of Gaelic, transcriptions of forms completed in that language are being added to the online database. However, English translations of the surnames still appear to be strangely absent, so that for example, in the townland of Murreagh the dashes noted above have been replaced with Gaelic names only, which will leave those with a little or no knowledge of the language at a disadvantage. To spell this out, what good is it to index families known to descendants in the United States of America only as 'Kevane' or 'Ashe' in the unfamiliar forms 'Ua Caomháin' or 'Ághas'? Indeed such is the real as opposed to the professed degree of knowledge of Gaelic in Ireland, that there will be more than a few in this country who would be left struggling by this failure of comprehensive indexing. Furthermore, there are signs of confusion in these belated amendments, as for example in the case of the O'Sullivan family of Derrynid Townland, Dawross DED, County Kerry, where one entry is translated but garbled over two lines and the other entries merely transcribed:

not only on County Monaghan but in many other areas some people made the Census returns in Gaelic, might explain why researchers are unable to locate people on the Census ?. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Turtle Bunbury <turtle@turtlebunbury.com>wrote: > Hi all, > Someone lately pointed out an anomaly in the 1911 Census for Monaghan. > He found that while there were some 17,395 persons listed on forms > completed in Gaelic, 4,473 of these apparently lived in Co. > Monaghan. As my source puts it, "I cannot imagine that the Gaelic > League would be more effective there than the adjacent counties > (Armagh 19, Cavan 151, Fermanagh 74 and Donegal, where there would > have been native Irish speakers only 1331). I imagine that Monaghan > was playing some sort of joke on the authorities but what was the > cause ?" The Clogher Historical Society then explained that the > figures for Monaghan were somewhat "skewed by the activities of a > priest in Magheracloone who encouraged locals to complete their forms > in Irish. Henry Morris, the folklorist, had been promoting the > language in Farney and taught classes in Lisdoonan c. 1895-1900." The > result is that people looking for their relatives in Farney, Co > Monaghan, have been "experiencing some difficulty in finding them on > the online census as the names haven't been given an Anglicised > version for indexing." > Best for now, > Turtle > > > Turtle Bunbury > www.turtlebunbury.com > Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland > Mob: + 353 - (0) 87 - 6453 486 > Skype: turtle1847 > > Turtle Bunbury is a best-selling author and travel writer based in > Ireland. He has lately launched www.HistoryinaBook.com<http://www.historyinabook.com/>which offers an > innovative way to transform your family history into a compelling > read. Turtle's seventh book, Vanishing Ireland - Further Chronicles of > a Disappearing World, with photographer James Fennell, was the top- > selling Picture Book in Ireland over Christmas 2009. > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi all, Someone lately pointed out an anomaly in the 1911 Census for Monaghan. He found that while there were some 17,395 persons listed on forms completed in Gaelic, 4,473 of these apparently lived in Co. Monaghan. As my source puts it, "I cannot imagine that the Gaelic League would be more effective there than the adjacent counties (Armagh 19, Cavan 151, Fermanagh 74 and Donegal, where there would have been native Irish speakers only 1331). I imagine that Monaghan was playing some sort of joke on the authorities but what was the cause ?" The Clogher Historical Society then explained that the figures for Monaghan were somewhat "skewed by the activities of a priest in Magheracloone who encouraged locals to complete their forms in Irish. Henry Morris, the folklorist, had been promoting the language in Farney and taught classes in Lisdoonan c. 1895-1900." The result is that people looking for their relatives in Farney, Co Monaghan, have been "experiencing some difficulty in finding them on the online census as the names haven't been given an Anglicised version for indexing." Best for now, Turtle Turtle Bunbury www.turtlebunbury.com Old Fort, Tobinstown, Tullow, Co. Carlow, Ireland Mob: + 353 - (0) 87 - 6453 486 Skype: turtle1847 Turtle Bunbury is a best-selling author and travel writer based in Ireland. He has lately launched www.HistoryinaBook.com which offers an innovative way to transform your family history into a compelling read. Turtle's seventh book, Vanishing Ireland - Further Chronicles of a Disappearing World, with photographer James Fennell, was the top- selling Picture Book in Ireland over Christmas 2009.

I don't know if this will help you at all, but here it is. It is the only Bow reference I have, mixed in with my Cummins. from "Search for Missing Friends: Irish Immigrant Advertisements Placed in The Boston Pilot 1831 - 1920," edited by Ruth-Ann Harris and B. Emer O'Keefe: 3 April 1875. Of DAN CUMMINGS, and his sister ANN BOW (maiden name Cummings); when last heard from Dan was in Tennessee in 1861, and Ann was in Raleigh, Mo., in ’63; their father, Jas. Cummings, and their mother, Margaret (maiden name Lynup), were natives of county Carlow. Information of them will be received by their sister, Elizabeth Kiely. Address Patrick Kiely, State Line City, Warren county, Indiana. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Fox" <deborahlargefox@gmail.com> To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:42:32 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] LARGE and BOWE and KAVANAGH I have been looking for three families that I believe might have originated in Co. Carlow: BOWE, LARGE, and KAVANAGH. Thomas Large married Bridget Kavanagh by 1826 or so, and they appear in Co. Kilkenny by then. I think this Thomas may have been married before to a woman in Carlow. One of the Large children later married a BOWE in Pennsylvania. I have been looking at Ballyknocken records since they contain both Bowe and Large families, but I am not limiting my search to that area. Would be interested in any information on any of these names in Carlow. Thanks! Deb DEBORAH LARGE FOX

Hi Michael, this maybe the needle I have be searching for, I know my Curran line has a strong connection to Tailoring I have confirmed 4 generation who worked within the trade to add to this marriages into other Tailoring families.   My earliest confirmed Curran was Patt Curran born about 1802 died November of 1862 on  Bridewell Lane, registered as Tailor on his own death entry and on his Son Marriage Certificate.   John Curran Mention here could be famliy memember maybe even his father whichever it is an excellent clue to follow.   Thanks again all the best Terry --- El dom, 14/3/10, michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> escribió: De: michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> Asunto: [IRL-CARLOW] Bunbury+Curran+Aughney+Cummins+Fishbourne+Eustace+Burton. Para: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Fecha: domingo, 14 de marzo, 2010 18:05 20th February 1835. Stephen Aughney states before J. Eustace of Castlemore that he lives in Roscat in the Parish of Ardistan, Barony of Rathvilly that he is worth the Sum of £5.00 over and above his just debts. 3rd March 1814. Nicholas Cummins of Seskinmadra in the Parish of Slyguf, Barony of Idrone East, states that he is worth the Sum of £20.00 over and above his just debts. 8th May, 1824. John Curran of Carlow, Swears before William Fishbourne, that he is a Householder and has a House in the Town of Carlow, in the Parish of Carlow and that he supports and maintains himself by Tailoring and he is worth the Sum of £5.00 over and above his just Debts. (Gentry at it  !). 7th March 1818. (could be 1810 ?) Edward Burton of Pollerton, Carlow, who is Bonded by William Burton of Bruton Hall, in the Parish of Urglin and Joseph Fishbourne of Strawhall, Carlow, must appear in Carlow Sessions to answer all such Matters and Things, as shall be objected against him (Edward Burton) on behalf of our Said Lord the King by Henry and Ebenezer Bunbury . (signed) William Fishbourne. Magistrate. ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com  with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Deborah, all, I know St. Mullins, in the south of County Carlow, is rife with Kavanaghs (of various spellings). There are a great many of them buried in the cemetery of the old St. Mullins church. Do you have any particular given names, dates of birth, family stories, etc...? I haven't come across the names Large and Bowe in St. Mullins, though that's not saying they might not have passed through or even lived there. Best, Bill Gawne Deborah Fox <deborahlargefox@gmail.com> writes: > I have been looking for three families that I believe might have originated > in Co. Carlow: BOWE, LARGE, and KAVANAGH. Thomas Large married Bridget > Kavanagh by 1826 or so, and they appear in Co. Kilkenny by then. I think > this Thomas may have been married before to a woman in Carlow. One of the > Large children later married a BOWE in Pennsylvania. I have been looking at > Ballyknocken records since they contain both Bowe and Large families, but I > am not limiting my search to that area. Would be interested in any > information on any of these names in Carlow. Thanks! Deb > DEBORAH LARGE FOX > Read my blog for Irish research tips: "Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My > Ancestors!" > http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without > the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Bill

Anyone know the locations of any British army barracks from the late 1700's to mid 1800's in Co. Carlow? Deb DEBORAH LARGE FOX Read my blog for Irish research tips: "Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors!" http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

I have been looking for three families that I believe might have originated in Co. Carlow: BOWE, LARGE, and KAVANAGH. Thomas Large married Bridget Kavanagh by 1826 or so, and they appear in Co. Kilkenny by then. I think this Thomas may have been married before to a woman in Carlow. One of the Large children later married a BOWE in Pennsylvania. I have been looking at Ballyknocken records since they contain both Bowe and Large families, but I am not limiting my search to that area. Would be interested in any information on any of these names in Carlow. Thanks! Deb DEBORAH LARGE FOX Read my blog for Irish research tips: "Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors!" http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

Just to let you know that I have added some more memorial inscriptions to my site at http://home.people.net.au/~ousie/county_carlow_memorials_of_the_dead_JPMD.htm under the heading NEW. They include memorial inscriptions from the parishes of :- Kellystown Kilemund / Kiltennell Linkerstown Old Leighlin Nurney Susie

20th February 1835. Stephen Aughney states before J. Eustace of Castlemore that he lives in Roscat in the Parish of Ardistan, Barony of Rathvilly that he is worth the Sum of £5.00 over and above his just debts. 3rd March 1814. Nicholas Cummins of Seskinmadra in the Parish of Slyguf, Barony of Idrone East, states that he is worth the Sum of £20.00 over and above his just debts. 8th May, 1824. John Curran of Carlow, Swears before William Fishbourne, that he is a Householder and has a House in the Town of Carlow, in the Parish of Carlow and that he supports and maintains himself by Tailoring and he is worth the Sum of £5.00 over and above his just Debts. (Gentry at it !). 7th March 1818. (could be 1810 ?) Edward Burton of Pollerton, Carlow, who is Bonded by William Burton of Bruton Hall, in the Parish of Urglin and Joseph Fishbourne of Strawhall, Carlow, must appear in Carlow Sessions to answer all such Matters and Things, as shall be objected against him (Edward Burton) on behalf of our Said Lord the King by Henry and Ebenezer Bunbury . (signed) William Fishbourne. Magistrate.

yes I have that...405 is the general figure mentioned...will check it out....I wrote "in the months following "Tatlers" comment over a hundred R.I.C.policemen were killed " by way of pointing out that his plea had been ignored...... On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Turtle Bunbury <turtle@turtlebunbury.com>wrote: > Richard Abbott's "Police Casualties in Ireland" lists 493 RIC officers > killed between the start of the Troubles in 1919 and disbandment in > 1922. I'm told that perhaps another 100-ish also died as a result of > accidents or non-political killings in that period. > > > On 13 Mar 2010, at 16:38, michael purcell wrote: > > > [ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- On the 21st January 1919, a > > group > > of nine masked Irish Volunteers ( by this time the Irish Volunteers > > were > > increasingly referred to as the Irish Republican Army ) ambushed > > a party > > of armed Royal Irish Constabulary escorting a cart load of gelignite > > (used > > for quarrying) at Soloheadbeg in Tipperary, two R.I.C. policemen > > were killed > > in the exchange of gunfire. This incident is regarded as the > > commencement of > > the Irish "War of Independence" (Anglo-Irish War). > > In November of that year a Carlow man serving in the R.I.C. was > > killed. The > > following is the report from the Nationalist and Leinster Times. > > This report is followed by a comment from Nationalist correspondent > > "Tatler". > > Nationalist 8th November 1919. > > Carlow Policeman Killed. > > On Friday of last week the R.I.C. Barracks in Ballivar, County > > Meath, was > > attacked by a number of masked men and a quantity of arms taken. The > > police > > defended, but the raid was short, sharp and decisive. The Sergeant was > > wounded, and one of the police, Constable W. Agar, was shot dead. > > Constable Agar belongs to a family well-known in Carlow. His father > > was > > evicted from a farm at Coolnakisha near the Kilkenny-Carlow border > > during > > the land war, and the family came to live in the town of Carlow. The > > dead > > constable was for a long time in the employment of Mr. E. Boake, > > Tullow > > Street, and was very popular. He joined the R.I.C. about 12 years > > ago. When > > the evicted tenants were being restored Mr. Agar, the deceased's > > father was > > given a farm near Rathvilly. Since then he has purchased a larger > > holding. > > On Monday the remains were conveyed by R.I.C. motor hearse to > > Rathvilly, and > > were met by a large number of County Carlow constabulary and > > contingents > > from the neighbouring districts of Wicklow and Kildare. The > > interment took > > place on Tuesday and the funeral was large. > > Amongst the chief mourners were the dead constable's three brothers. > > Mr. > > Townsend, District Inspector and Mr. J.C.Ryan, Resident Magistrate > > were also > > in attendance. Rev. Mr. O'Callaghan officiated at the graveside. > > NOTES BY TATLER. > > The fatal shooting of the R.I.C. Constable in Ballivar, is an act > > that no > > honest or moral Irishman can condone. Condonation of such a crime > > would be > > even worse than active participation because--so far as the vast > > majority of > > the Irish people are concerned-- there must be no condoning, Like a > > lie no > > deliberate killing --outside war--can be lawful, and so far as > > County Meath > > is concerned --there has been no war. I hold my own opinions about > > such > > incidents, but I am most interested in the Commandment --"Thou shalt > > not > > kill". That law is eternal, and the consequences must also be eternal. > > Slaughter either in war or rebellion is one thing altogether. Unless > > the > > Irish people want to scrap the decalogue altogether, they cannot > > condone > > murder. > > I hold terribly strong views on those incidents. I hold that whoever > > is > > perpetrating them have lost the moral sense and are not worthy > > members of > > the community. The Royal Irish Constabulary belong to the flesh and > > blood of > > the Irish nation --rightly or wrongly-- and it must be remembered that > > nine-tenths of the force joined the police before the mushroom > > Nationalists > > began to realise that there was ever such a thing as Irish > > nationality. > > [ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- In the months following > > "Tatlers" > > comment over 100 R.I.C. policemen were killed. Because the R.I.C. > > were an > > armed force the I.R.A. considered them an legitimate target for > > attack. In > > September 1919 the British government had reacted to this by sending > > over a > > police reserve made up of British ex-service men to support the > > R.I.C. they > > were known as "Auxiliaries". In January 1920 another force was > > recruited > > throughout Britain for service in Ireland, they became known as "The > > Black > > and Tans". From that point on a bloody guerrilla war commenced in > > which > > there were "no rules" . > > On 19 June 1920 Lieut-Col. Smyth, D.S.O. and Bar, made a speech to > > the > > ranks of the Royal Irish Constabulary in which he stated: > > *"Now, men, Sinn Fein have had all the sport up to the present, and > > we are > > going to have the sport now. The police are not in sufficient > > strength to do > > anything to hold their barracks. This is not enough for as long as > > we remain > > on the defensive, so long will Sinn Fein have the whip hand. We must > > take > > the offensive and beat Sinn Fein at its own tactics...If a police > > barracks > > is burned or if the barracks already occupied is not suitable, then > > the best > > house in the locality is to be commandeered, the occupants thrown > > into the > > gutter. Let them die there—the more the merrier. Should the order > > "Hands Up" > > not be immediately obeyed, shoot and shoot with effect. If the persons > > approaching a patrol carry their hands in their pockets, or are in > > any way > > suspicious looking, shoot them down. You may make mistakes > > occasionally and > > innocent persons may be shot, but that cannot be helped, and you are > > bound > > to get the right parties some time. The more you shoot, the better I > > will > > like you, and I assure you no policeman will get into trouble for > > shooting > > any man".* > > Many R.I.C. men resigned from the force in protest at this speech, > > some of > > them later joined the Irish Republican Army. Four weeks after making > > this > > speech Lieut-Col. Smyth was shot dead by the I.R.A. in the Smoking > > Room of > > the Cork and Country Club. > > ======================================= > > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > > --------------------------------------- > > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. > > No additional text is required. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Richard Abbott's "Police Casualties in Ireland" lists 493 RIC officers killed between the start of the Troubles in 1919 and disbandment in 1922. I'm told that perhaps another 100-ish also died as a result of accidents or non-political killings in that period. On 13 Mar 2010, at 16:38, michael purcell wrote: > [ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- On the 21st January 1919, a > group > of nine masked Irish Volunteers ( by this time the Irish Volunteers > were > increasingly referred to as the Irish Republican Army ) ambushed > a party > of armed Royal Irish Constabulary escorting a cart load of gelignite > (used > for quarrying) at Soloheadbeg in Tipperary, two R.I.C. policemen > were killed > in the exchange of gunfire. This incident is regarded as the > commencement of > the Irish "War of Independence" (Anglo-Irish War). > In November of that year a Carlow man serving in the R.I.C. was > killed. The > following is the report from the Nationalist and Leinster Times. > This report is followed by a comment from Nationalist correspondent > "Tatler". > Nationalist 8th November 1919. > Carlow Policeman Killed. > On Friday of last week the R.I.C. Barracks in Ballivar, County > Meath, was > attacked by a number of masked men and a quantity of arms taken. The > police > defended, but the raid was short, sharp and decisive. The Sergeant was > wounded, and one of the police, Constable W. Agar, was shot dead. > Constable Agar belongs to a family well-known in Carlow. His father > was > evicted from a farm at Coolnakisha near the Kilkenny-Carlow border > during > the land war, and the family came to live in the town of Carlow. The > dead > constable was for a long time in the employment of Mr. E. Boake, > Tullow > Street, and was very popular. He joined the R.I.C. about 12 years > ago. When > the evicted tenants were being restored Mr. Agar, the deceased's > father was > given a farm near Rathvilly. Since then he has purchased a larger > holding. > On Monday the remains were conveyed by R.I.C. motor hearse to > Rathvilly, and > were met by a large number of County Carlow constabulary and > contingents > from the neighbouring districts of Wicklow and Kildare. The > interment took > place on Tuesday and the funeral was large. > Amongst the chief mourners were the dead constable's three brothers. > Mr. > Townsend, District Inspector and Mr. J.C.Ryan, Resident Magistrate > were also > in attendance. Rev. Mr. O'Callaghan officiated at the graveside. > NOTES BY TATLER. > The fatal shooting of the R.I.C. Constable in Ballivar, is an act > that no > honest or moral Irishman can condone. Condonation of such a crime > would be > even worse than active participation because--so far as the vast > majority of > the Irish people are concerned-- there must be no condoning, Like a > lie no > deliberate killing --outside war--can be lawful, and so far as > County Meath > is concerned --there has been no war. I hold my own opinions about > such > incidents, but I am most interested in the Commandment --"Thou shalt > not > kill". That law is eternal, and the consequences must also be eternal. > Slaughter either in war or rebellion is one thing altogether. Unless > the > Irish people want to scrap the decalogue altogether, they cannot > condone > murder. > I hold terribly strong views on those incidents. I hold that whoever > is > perpetrating them have lost the moral sense and are not worthy > members of > the community. The Royal Irish Constabulary belong to the flesh and > blood of > the Irish nation --rightly or wrongly-- and it must be remembered that > nine-tenths of the force joined the police before the mushroom > Nationalists > began to realise that there was ever such a thing as Irish > nationality. > [ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- In the months following > "Tatlers" > comment over 100 R.I.C. policemen were killed. Because the R.I.C. > were an > armed force the I.R.A. considered them an legitimate target for > attack. In > September 1919 the British government had reacted to this by sending > over a > police reserve made up of British ex-service men to support the > R.I.C. they > were known as "Auxiliaries". In January 1920 another force was > recruited > throughout Britain for service in Ireland, they became known as "The > Black > and Tans". From that point on a bloody guerrilla war commenced in > which > there were "no rules" . > On 19 June 1920 Lieut-Col. Smyth, D.S.O. and Bar, made a speech to > the > ranks of the Royal Irish Constabulary in which he stated: > *"Now, men, Sinn Fein have had all the sport up to the present, and > we are > going to have the sport now. The police are not in sufficient > strength to do > anything to hold their barracks. This is not enough for as long as > we remain > on the defensive, so long will Sinn Fein have the whip hand. We must > take > the offensive and beat Sinn Fein at its own tactics...If a police > barracks > is burned or if the barracks already occupied is not suitable, then > the best > house in the locality is to be commandeered, the occupants thrown > into the > gutter. Let them die there—the more the merrier. Should the order > "Hands Up" > not be immediately obeyed, shoot and shoot with effect. If the persons > approaching a patrol carry their hands in their pockets, or are in > any way > suspicious looking, shoot them down. You may make mistakes > occasionally and > innocent persons may be shot, but that cannot be helped, and you are > bound > to get the right parties some time. The more you shoot, the better I > will > like you, and I assure you no policeman will get into trouble for > shooting > any man".* > Many R.I.C. men resigned from the force in protest at this speech, > some of > them later joined the Irish Republican Army. Four weeks after making > this > speech Lieut-Col. Smyth was shot dead by the I.R.A. in the Smoking > Room of > the Cork and Country Club. > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. > No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >

[ Note added by Michael Purcell 2010------In the General Election of December 1918, Sinn Fein won 73 of the 105 Irish seats in the British Parliament. Sinn Fein decided to establish an Irish Parliament to be known as The Dail. The first meeting of the First Dail, which lasted two hours, was held in the Mansion House, Dublin on the 21st January 1919, (although the attack was not ordered by the Dail the meeting took place on same day as the Soloheadbeg Ambush ) as the Sinn Fein President, Eamon de Valera was interred in a British prison, Cathal Brugha presided, addressing the Dail he stated ---Deputies you understand from what we are about to declare that we are now done with England. This was considered by many as tantamount to a declaration of war against England, in fact "War" was not officially declared by the Dail until March 1921. The following is a short extract from , "Ireland's Declaration of Independence " issued by The First Dail on 21st January 1919. ] >From a Poster in the PPP. ( In Irish and in English ). THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. "Whereas the Irish people is by right a free people: And whereas for seven hundred years the Irish people has never ceased to repudiate and has repeatedly protested in arms against foreign usurpation; And whereas English rule in this country is, and always has been based upon force and fraud and maintained by military occupation against the declared will of the people : And whereas the Irish Republic was proclaimed in Dublin on Easter Monday , 1916, by the Irish Republican army, acting on behalf of the Irish people: And whereas the Irish people is resolved to secure and maintain its complete independence in order to promote the common weal, to re-establish justice , to provide for future defence, to ensure peace at home and good will with all nations, and to constitute a national policy based upon the people's will, with equal right and equal opportunity for every citizen: And whereas at the threshold of a new era in history the Irish electorate has in the General Election of December 1918, seized the first occasion to declare by an overwhelming majority its firm allegiance to the Irish Republic: Now , therefore , we , the elected Representatives of the ancient Irish people in National Parliament assembled, do, in the name of the Irish nation, ratify the establishment of the Irish Republic and pledge ourselves and our people to make this declaration effective by every means at out command: We solemnly declare foreign government in Ireland to be an invasion of our national right which we will never tolerate, and we demand the evacuation of our country by the English Garrison : We claim for our national independence the recognition and support of every free nation in the world, and we proclaim that independence to be a condition precedent to international peace hereafter : In the name of the Irish People we humbly commit our destiny to Almighty God Who gave our fathers the courage and determination to persevere through long centuries of a ruthless tyranny, and strong in the justice of the cause which they have handed down to us, we ask His Divine blessing on this the last stage of the struggle we have pledged ourselves to carry through to freedom."

[ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- On the 21st January 1919, a group of nine masked Irish Volunteers ( by this time the Irish Volunteers were increasingly referred to as the Irish Republican Army ) ambushed a party of armed Royal Irish Constabulary escorting a cart load of gelignite (used for quarrying) at Soloheadbeg in Tipperary, two R.I.C. policemen were killed in the exchange of gunfire. This incident is regarded as the commencement of the Irish "War of Independence" (Anglo-Irish War). In November of that year a Carlow man serving in the R.I.C. was killed. The following is the report from the Nationalist and Leinster Times. This report is followed by a comment from Nationalist correspondent "Tatler". Nationalist 8th November 1919. Carlow Policeman Killed. On Friday of last week the R.I.C. Barracks in Ballivar, County Meath, was attacked by a number of masked men and a quantity of arms taken. The police defended, but the raid was short, sharp and decisive. The Sergeant was wounded, and one of the police, Constable W. Agar, was shot dead. Constable Agar belongs to a family well-known in Carlow. His father was evicted from a farm at Coolnakisha near the Kilkenny-Carlow border during the land war, and the family came to live in the town of Carlow. The dead constable was for a long time in the employment of Mr. E. Boake, Tullow Street, and was very popular. He joined the R.I.C. about 12 years ago. When the evicted tenants were being restored Mr. Agar, the deceased's father was given a farm near Rathvilly. Since then he has purchased a larger holding. On Monday the remains were conveyed by R.I.C. motor hearse to Rathvilly, and were met by a large number of County Carlow constabulary and contingents from the neighbouring districts of Wicklow and Kildare. The interment took place on Tuesday and the funeral was large. Amongst the chief mourners were the dead constable's three brothers. Mr. Townsend, District Inspector and Mr. J.C.Ryan, Resident Magistrate were also in attendance. Rev. Mr. O'Callaghan officiated at the graveside. NOTES BY TATLER. The fatal shooting of the R.I.C. Constable in Ballivar, is an act that no honest or moral Irishman can condone. Condonation of such a crime would be even worse than active participation because--so far as the vast majority of the Irish people are concerned-- there must be no condoning, Like a lie no deliberate killing --outside war--can be lawful, and so far as County Meath is concerned --there has been no war. I hold my own opinions about such incidents, but I am most interested in the Commandment --"Thou shalt not kill". That law is eternal, and the consequences must also be eternal. Slaughter either in war or rebellion is one thing altogether. Unless the Irish people want to scrap the decalogue altogether, they cannot condone murder. I hold terribly strong views on those incidents. I hold that whoever is perpetrating them have lost the moral sense and are not worthy members of the community. The Royal Irish Constabulary belong to the flesh and blood of the Irish nation --rightly or wrongly-- and it must be remembered that nine-tenths of the force joined the police before the mushroom Nationalists began to realise that there was ever such a thing as Irish nationality. [ Note added 2010 by Michael Purcell--- In the months following "Tatlers" comment over 100 R.I.C. policemen were killed. Because the R.I.C. were an armed force the I.R.A. considered them an legitimate target for attack. In September 1919 the British government had reacted to this by sending over a police reserve made up of British ex-service men to support the R.I.C. they were known as "Auxiliaries". In January 1920 another force was recruited throughout Britain for service in Ireland, they became known as "The Black and Tans". From that point on a bloody guerrilla war commenced in which there were "no rules" . On 19 June 1920 Lieut-Col. Smyth, D.S.O. and Bar, made a speech to the ranks of the Royal Irish Constabulary in which he stated: *"Now, men, Sinn Fein have had all the sport up to the present, and we are going to have the sport now. The police are not in sufficient strength to do anything to hold their barracks. This is not enough for as long as we remain on the defensive, so long will Sinn Fein have the whip hand. We must take the offensive and beat Sinn Fein at its own tactics...If a police barracks is burned or if the barracks already occupied is not suitable, then the best house in the locality is to be commandeered, the occupants thrown into the gutter. Let them die there—the more the merrier. Should the order "Hands Up" not be immediately obeyed, shoot and shoot with effect. If the persons approaching a patrol carry their hands in their pockets, or are in any way suspicious looking, shoot them down. You may make mistakes occasionally and innocent persons may be shot, but that cannot be helped, and you are bound to get the right parties some time. The more you shoot, the better I will like you, and I assure you no policeman will get into trouble for shooting any man".* Many R.I.C. men resigned from the force in protest at this speech, some of them later joined the Irish Republican Army. Four weeks after making this speech Lieut-Col. Smyth was shot dead by the I.R.A. in the Smoking Room of the Cork and Country Club.