Thank you so much for the quick response! Don't know if this Mary is an ancestor of mine but hanging onto the information Just in case. She could be a sister of my James, who knows! I know so very little, pre arrival in Saint John. Again, thank you, much appreciated. Barb -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: March-27-10 1:39 PM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Carlow Cathedral 1774--1811 30th August, 1788. Bapt. Mary of James Lawler and Catherine Seymour, Sponsors ; Michael Quinn and Catherine Connelly. no address. On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Barb Pattman <bpattman@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: > Would appreciate any information on Lawlor or similar spelling, around > 1788, > give or take a few years. I wish I give have a more > Accurate date but I don't have one. In particular, James Lawlor. When > James dies in Saint John on April 7, 1861 his obituary stated he was in his > 73rd year of life and a native of the town of Carlow. On the marriage > register, May 18, 1822 in Saint John, his parents are not listed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of alberdix@nbnet.nb.ca > Sent: March-27-10 11:44 AM > To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Carlow Cathedral 1774--1811 > > Hello, > > Any information on family name Maddix, Maddocks or similar spelling would > be > wonderful. Wish I could help transcribe but I live in Canada. > > Jeanne > ---- michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> wrote: > > we have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers for > 1774 > > to 1794 and 1787 --1811. > > I can confirm that the only Baptisms or Marriages recorded during 1777 to > > 1791 > > were for those who paid. > > 2 shillings and 2 pence for a Baptism. > > 1 shilling and 1 penny for " an Unction" . ( the sacrament of Extreme > > Unction ). > > 5 shillings and 5 pence for a marriage. > > We will be looking for a "willing victim" to type up the photocopies for > the > > Carlow List > > any takers ?....................... > > considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in > > Ireland . > > In the meantime if someone has a particular enquiry for this period , now > is > > the time to ask , > > the Registers are not indexed so approx. date of inquiry would assist. > > this offer is open for a week as we have to continue cataloguing the PPP > and > > will > > be moving on to other items, mick > > ======================================= > > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > > --------------------------------------- > > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2772 - Release Date: 03/27/10 > 04:32:00 > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2773 - Release Date: 03/27/10 04:32:00

I am at present working on the archive collection known as the Pat Purcell Papers. In this undertaking I am assisted by two part-time volunteers. I am very grateful to Michael Purcell for this opportunity to work on such an important resource. I wish to add the following comment to Carlow / Graigue / Killeshin Baptism and Marriage registers, 1769 to 1811 , photocopied and found in the PPP last week. The photocopies appear to have been done in 1969 by Pat Purcell. The Baptisms / Marriages in the Cathedral Register for Carlow / Graigue / Killeshin were entered by a clerk, who seems more interested in keeping the accounts for 1777 to 1784. The Parish Priest of Carlow -Graigue, Mr Gernon, is paid a fee at the end of each month. Many entries state : "Baptism at (name of street )" , two shillings = two pence. (no name recorded). "for an Unction" one shilling = one penny (no name recorded). "for a Baptism and Unction" = three shillings and three pence (combination of both charges ). " Married at Mr. Gernons House" five shillings and five pence. There are a few entries recorded as "unpaid". All the writing is very clear and readable. Most entries are named with no record of Sponsors for Baptisms but Witnesses are recorded for Marriages. What is really frustrating is when he gives the address, there is no name attached and when he records the names, no address in given . Best Wishes, Jean.

Hi Michael I am willing to transcibe, also will pay for any postal costs, however if beaten to the post, (excuse the pun) my interest is in any Patt Curran's mentioned well any Curran's really all the best Terry --- El sáb, 27/3/10, michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> escribió: De: michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> Asunto: [IRL-CARLOW] Carlow Cathedral 1774--1811 Para: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Fecha: sábado, 27 de marzo, 2010 13:42 we  have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers for 1774 to 1794 and 1787 --1811. I can confirm that the only Baptisms or Marriages recorded during 1777 to 1791 were for those who paid. 2 shillings and 2 pence for a Baptism. 1 shilling and 1 penny for " an Unction" . ( the sacrament of Extreme Unction ). 5 shillings and 5 pence for a marriage. We will be looking for a "willing victim" to type up the photocopies for the Carlow List any takers ?....................... considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in Ireland . In the meantime if someone has a particular enquiry for this period , now is the time to ask , the Registers are not indexed so approx. date of inquiry would assist. this offer is open for a week as we have to continue cataloguing the PPP and will be moving on to other items, mick ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com  with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Would appreciate any information on Lawlor or similar spelling, around 1788, give or take a few years. I wish I give have a more Accurate date but I don't have one. In particular, James Lawlor. When James dies in Saint John on April 7, 1861 his obituary stated he was in his 73rd year of life and a native of the town of Carlow. On the marriage register, May 18, 1822 in Saint John, his parents are not listed. -----Original Message----- From: irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irl-carlow-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of alberdix@nbnet.nb.ca Sent: March-27-10 11:44 AM To: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Carlow Cathedral 1774--1811 Hello, Any information on family name Maddix, Maddocks or similar spelling would be wonderful. Wish I could help transcribe but I live in Canada. Jeanne ---- michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> wrote: > we have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers for 1774 > to 1794 and 1787 --1811. > I can confirm that the only Baptisms or Marriages recorded during 1777 to > 1791 > were for those who paid. > 2 shillings and 2 pence for a Baptism. > 1 shilling and 1 penny for " an Unction" . ( the sacrament of Extreme > Unction ). > 5 shillings and 5 pence for a marriage. > We will be looking for a "willing victim" to type up the photocopies for the > Carlow List > any takers ?....................... > considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in > Ireland . > In the meantime if someone has a particular enquiry for this period , now is > the time to ask , > the Registers are not indexed so approx. date of inquiry would assist. > this offer is open for a week as we have to continue cataloguing the PPP and > will > be moving on to other items, mick > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2772 - Release Date: 03/27/10 04:32:00

Hi Michael, I live in Carlow town and would love to help out and type up the records. Kind Regards Alan McGrath On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM, michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com>wrote: > we have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers for > 1774 > to 1794 and 1787 --1811. > I can confirm that the only Baptisms or Marriages recorded during 1777 to > 1791 > were for those who paid. > 2 shillings and 2 pence for a Baptism. > 1 shilling and 1 penny for " an Unction" . ( the sacrament of Extreme > Unction ). > 5 shillings and 5 pence for a marriage. > We will be looking for a "willing victim" to type up the photocopies for > the > Carlow List > any takers ?....................... > considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in > Ireland . > In the meantime if someone has a particular enquiry for this period , now > is > the time to ask , > the Registers are not indexed so approx. date of inquiry would assist. > this offer is open for a week as we have to continue cataloguing the PPP > and > will > be moving on to other items, mick > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

we have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers for 1774 to 1794 and 1787 --1811. I can confirm that the only Baptisms or Marriages recorded during 1777 to 1791 were for those who paid. 2 shillings and 2 pence for a Baptism. 1 shilling and 1 penny for " an Unction" . ( the sacrament of Extreme Unction ). 5 shillings and 5 pence for a marriage. We will be looking for a "willing victim" to type up the photocopies for the Carlow List any takers ?....................... considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in Ireland . In the meantime if someone has a particular enquiry for this period , now is the time to ask , the Registers are not indexed so approx. date of inquiry would assist. this offer is open for a week as we have to continue cataloguing the PPP and will be moving on to other items, mick

Hello, Any information on family name Maddix, Maddocks or similar spelling would be wonderful. Wish I could help transcribe but I live in Canada. Jeanne ---- michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> wrote: > we have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers for 1774 > to 1794 and 1787 --1811. > I can confirm that the only Baptisms or Marriages recorded during 1777 to > 1791 > were for those who paid. > 2 shillings and 2 pence for a Baptism. > 1 shilling and 1 penny for " an Unction" . ( the sacrament of Extreme > Unction ). > 5 shillings and 5 pence for a marriage. > We will be looking for a "willing victim" to type up the photocopies for the > Carlow List > any takers ?....................... > considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in > Ireland . > In the meantime if someone has a particular enquiry for this period , now is > the time to ask , > the Registers are not indexed so approx. date of inquiry would assist. > this offer is open for a week as we have to continue cataloguing the PPP and > will > be moving on to other items, mick > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Alan, I noticed your last name of McGRATH and my ggreat grandfather Phillip GORMAN was born in Ireland which I have been unable to find out where 1-August-1834 and was the son of James GORMAN and Catherine McGRATH. I know nothing about them and was wondering if there might be a connection. The 1900 US Federal Census shows that Phillip GORMAN came to the USA in 1856 and was a Naturalized citizen and owned his farm. Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan McGrath" <amcgrath80@gmail.com> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Carlow Cathedral 1774--1811 > Hi Michael, > > I live in Carlow town and would love to help out and type up the records. > > Kind Regards > > Alan McGrath > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM, michael purcell > <carlowmike@gmail.com>wrote: > >> we have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers for >> 1774 >> to 1794 and 1787 --1811. >> I can confirm that the only Baptisms or Marriages recorded during 1777 to >> 1791 >> were for those who paid. >> 2 shillings and 2 pence for a Baptism. >> 1 shilling and 1 penny for " an Unction" . ( the sacrament of Extreme >> Unction ). >> 5 shillings and 5 pence for a marriage. >> We will be looking for a "willing victim" to type up the photocopies for >> the >> Carlow List >> any takers ?....................... >> considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in >> Ireland . >> In the meantime if someone has a particular enquiry for this period , now >> is >> the time to ask , >> the Registers are not indexed so approx. date of inquiry would assist. >> this offer is open for a week as we have to continue cataloguing the PPP >> and >> will >> be moving on to other items, mick >> ======================================= >> Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must >> subscribe >> to the List. Its FREE! >> --------------------------------------- >> To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the >> quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2773 - Release Date: 03/27/10 02:32:00

Lieut.-Colonel Charles Carlyle Macdowell, C.M.G., D.S.O Born 1874 in Carlow ,son of Charles William. Macdowell, M.D. and his wife Dorothy, of Otter Holt, Kilkenny Road, Carlow the Carlow Union Medical Officer.   The MacDowell were a noted Carlow Family C.W. Macdowell had followed his own  father into Medicine, his father was Benjamin Francis McDowell MD. Trinity College, Dublin. Royal College of Surgeons of Ireland, Surgeon to Mercer's Hospital, died February 8th 1879 aged 38 years. http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/Montgomery_House.htm     Charles Brother also continues the family tradition in Carlow http://www.igp-web.com/carlow/PP_papers_88.htm   Charles Carlyle Macdowell join the army in 1892, married in 1896 his military Career had a great start but by 1912 he resigned the reason is not clear, but it may have something to do with him been removed from the Sharpshooters a special unit he had created, 1914 he returned to the reserve and then to Active Force in 1915, where during the War years he excel with promotions and honours been award Order of St Michael and St George and the DSO, along with other commendations.   Macdowell was one of these special officers who in War and only in War worked best. However from 1914 to 1920 his rank was changed from Captain to Acting Col and back on number of occasions, yet when given command he showed quality and skills as leader but from some reason was fighting and up hill struggle against his superiors.      After the War he remained on the Active list until 1929, took great interest in the welfare of ex-soldiers and been a founding member and Chairman of the “DISCHARGED SAILORS', SOLDIERS' & AIRMEN'S CO-OPERATION Limited” which was created in 1920   Macdowell Lived in London for the rest of his life, he died in March of 1959 aged 85, and The London Times publish this.   However there are sad sides to his life, a lost of a son during the War, a business misadventures and family break-ups.His Son George Charles Macdowell was killed on the Western Front aged only 19 while leading his men in battle. This had a major affect on C.C. Macdowell for the rest of his life, his Military aspects of his life cause his marriage to dissolve and divorce in 1925, he remarried but this ended before 1929.   The 1930’s proved as unlucky as another failed marriage and he was declared Bankrupt in 1938. The 1940’s apart from phone book entries, I can not find anything on him, it possible he return to some form of unit i.e. a Dads Army unit but I can not find any proof.   It all sounds a sad end to a Grand Soldier.   All the best for now Terry --- El jue, 25/3/10, michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> escribió: De: michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> Asunto: [IRL-CARLOW] Roll of Honour 1919. Para: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Fecha: jueves, 25 de marzo, 2010 18:46 Carlow Sentinel, June 14th 1919. Lieut-Colonel C.C. Macdowell, D.S.O. (Major Reserve of Officers Royal Artillery). Son of the late C.W. Macdowell, M.D. of Otter Holt, Kilkenny Road, Carlow has been appointed in the recent Kings Birthday Honours, a companion of the Order of St. Michael and St. George, for his services in the final advance on Mons where he commanded four Brigades of Artillery. Col. Macdowell after serving in the early days of the war, as second-in-command of the 6th Battalion Royal Highlanders (The Black Watch) through the battles of Festubut and Neuve Chappelle, 1915, was selected to command the 281st Brigade, R.F.A., in November 1915, and has continued in command of this brigade on the Western front since that date. The D.S.O. was awarded to him for his services in the battle of the Somme. He commanded a group of artillery  in all the great battles of the years 1916, 1917, 1918, including Arras Cambrai, Vimy Ridge, Ypres, Langemark, Bapaume, St. Quentin and Mons. Colonel Macdowell's eldest son, Captain C.M.V. Macdowell , 6th Royal Highlanders, died of wounds received at Gavrelle, during the first battle of Arras, 1917, after serving with the famous 51st (Highland) Division in France since early in 1915, he was only 19 and a half years, when he was killed. ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com  with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wikipedia aside ---------you know the story, ( I did say at the outset of this "newspaper extracts" series that it was complicated !) -- the Black and Tans were British ex-servicemen recruited in 1920 to the Royal Irish Constabulary --- with not enough uniforms for the extra 10,000 ,or so, members wore a mixture of black and tan...many of them later wore R.I.C. uniforms when they became available...I have never seen "official figures" to agree for the number of deaths in the Black and Tans ..probably they were combined with the approx. 500 deaths in the R.I.C. during 1919--1923. (several were killed during The Truce) ?. The Auxiliaries numbered about 2,000 ex- British army officers, recruited as support force to the R.I.C. among their causalities were the 15 killed in the Kilmichael Ambush on 28th Nov. 1920. by Tom Barry's West Cork Flying Column ( "Up West Cork" joined "Up Dev" as a rallying cry for the I.R.A.). >From January 1919 to June 1921 the estimated death toll during the War of Independence ( compiled by the I.R.B. ) was ----- 400 Policemen ; ( did this figure include " Black and Tans" and "Auxies "? ) ---156 British military ; with estimated figure of 700 members of the I.R.A. combined with civilians. ( note : the figures only cover period to June 1921 ). During my lifetime I have spoken to several historians, seen original records and read a dozen books on the subject but none of them agree on a figure for causalities from January 1919 to July 1922 or up to the ending of the Civil War in April 1923 ?. Perhaps Turtle, you might, sometime in the future, make it one of your projects to research this inconsistency ?. There must be reliable figures stored somewhere. On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Turtle Bunbury <turtle@turtlebunbury.com>wrote: > Thanks Mick, > > Any idea how many Black and Tans were killed in the war? > > Wikipedia gives the following casualties: > > IRA - 550 dead > > British - 714 dead, including 410 RIC, 261 British Army and 43 USC > (Ulster Special Constabulary). > > A further 750 civilians are also said to have died. > > Best, > > TB > > > > On 26 Mar 2010, at 17:30, michael purcell wrote: > > > Irish War of Independence Jan. 1919 -- July 1922. > > In an earlier reference I confused dates for the forming of the > > Black and > > Tans and the Police Auxiliary Cadets ( Auxies). > > The following notes are extracted from the PPP. ( "Irish Republican > > Brotherhood Recollections" recorded in a copy book and uncovered by > > Jean > > Casey recently.) > > "The Black and Tans were formed in December 1919 when British ex- > > soldiers > > and sailors were recruited as a support force for the Royal Irish > > Constabulary. Their wage was 10 shillings per day and cigarettes. The > > "Tans" arrived in Ireland on the 25th March 1920 ( many of the > > participants > > in the struggle for independence would refer to the period following > > their > > arrival as "the Tan war"). > > The Auxiliaries were formed in June 1920, those who joined were > > demobilized officers of the British army. They arrived in Ireland in > > July > > 1920. Their wage was £1.00 a day. The "Auxies" were not under military > > discipline and they soon gained a reputation for brutality and > > ruthlessness. > > A distinctive feature of their dress was that they wore a belt with > > two > > holsters each containing a revolver. > > The term "Black and Tans" was often applied by the Irish to the > > Auxiliaries > > and also to British-born constables in the R.I.C. and sometimes even > > to the > > soldiers in the regular British army." > > ======================================= > > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > > --------------------------------------- > > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. > > No additional text is required. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe > to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Michael if anyone with a scanner wants to scan a half dozen pages or take digital pictures of those pages and send as attachments I would help. Charlie in Ottawa > considering postage costs it is better if the volunteer is resident in > Ireland . -----------

Michael if anyone with a scanner wants to scan a half dozen pages or take digital pictures of those pages and send as attachments I would help. Charlie in Ottawa On 27-Mar-10, at 8:42 AM, michael purcell wrote: > we have found a photocopy in the PPP of Carlow Cathedral Registers > for 1774 > to 1794 and 1787 --1811.

Thanks Mick, Any idea how many Black and Tans were killed in the war? Wikipedia gives the following casualties: IRA - 550 dead British - 714 dead, including 410 RIC, 261 British Army and 43 USC (Ulster Special Constabulary). A further 750 civilians are also said to have died. Best, TB On 26 Mar 2010, at 17:30, michael purcell wrote: > Irish War of Independence Jan. 1919 -- July 1922. > In an earlier reference I confused dates for the forming of the > Black and > Tans and the Police Auxiliary Cadets ( Auxies). > The following notes are extracted from the PPP. ( "Irish Republican > Brotherhood Recollections" recorded in a copy book and uncovered by > Jean > Casey recently.) > "The Black and Tans were formed in December 1919 when British ex- > soldiers > and sailors were recruited as a support force for the Royal Irish > Constabulary. Their wage was 10 shillings per day and cigarettes. The > "Tans" arrived in Ireland on the 25th March 1920 ( many of the > participants > in the struggle for independence would refer to the period following > their > arrival as "the Tan war"). > The Auxiliaries were formed in June 1920, those who joined were > demobilized officers of the British army. They arrived in Ireland in > July > 1920. Their wage was £1.00 a day. The "Auxies" were not under military > discipline and they soon gained a reputation for brutality and > ruthlessness. > A distinctive feature of their dress was that they wore a belt with > two > holsters each containing a revolver. > The term "Black and Tans" was often applied by the Irish to the > Auxiliaries > and also to British-born constables in the R.I.C. and sometimes even > to the > soldiers in the regular British army." > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. > No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >

----- Original Message ----- From: "michael purcell" <carlowmike@gmail.com> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:32 PM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] slight correction to Comrades Society. > The Minute Book of the "Comrades of the Great War Society" records > that the first meeting of the society was called by Lieut-Colonel > Browne-Clayton on Monday, 30th December, 1918. > It was held in the Deighton Memorial Hall, Burrin Street. > The meeting was attended by 67 men, many of them ex-soldiers of the > British > Army, wearing the Discharge Silver Badge. > Also among the attendance were a number of men wearing Khaki, home on > leave > or invalided out. There were also a number of civilians present who had > relatives in service. > The meeting was addressed by Sapper B.W. Bagenal, 10th Field Company, > Australian Engineers. > It was decided to establish a "Post" in Carlow town. > Sapper Bagenal stated: "that it was imperative that rooms > or a building should be procured in order to establish a meeting and > recreation place for members. > "Other desirable arrangements in the interests of members would include a > Library and Reading Room > with a plentiful supply of quality newspapers, a Licence to sell Beer > would > be sought and a canteen established where members who > have stood "shoulder to shoulder" in the Great War on the Sea, Land and in > the Air, would be able to spend leisure time among old comrades > and friends" > Mr. W.J. Webster, late C.Q.M.S., Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, and > Organising Secretary for central Ireland attended. > The following Officers and Committee were elected. > Trustees: Viscount French, Lord Beresford, Colonel John Ward, M.P. Rev. S. > Ridgeway. > President : Lieut-Colonel Robert Browne-Clayton, D.S.O. > Officers : General Lewis, D.S.O. Commander Forbes. > Medical Advisor : Dr. W.H. O' Meara, M.D. Carlow Pensions Committee > Medical > Referee. > Captain : Sergeant-Major Trundle > Chairman: Rev. S. Ridgeway. > Chairman : Mr. B.F. Bagenal. D.L. > Hon. Treasurer : John Norris. > Secretary : John Connolly. > Committee: Ex-Sergeant Bigley, Graigue ; Sergeant Rea, Sergeant Bigley, > Carlow. ; J. Bryan, J. Connolly, M. Geoghegan, C. Burke, J. Morris, P. > Geoghegan, P.Shaw, C. Connell, W. Curran, T. Walker. M. Millar, P.Nolan, > J. > Kelly. > Addressing the meeting Colonel Browne-Clayton said :--- > "members could travel to any town in the Empire and ask for the nearest > "Comrades Club" there they would find a friend who will help them in any > way > he can. Tonight we have a "Post" but when we have 100 members we will be > enlarged to a Branch. Posts are already established in Rathvilly, Tullow > and Bagenalstown. > We are non-political and non-sectarian, we have won the right to have a > voice in the affairs of Ireland and a responsibility which will be wisely > used. We must help the men who are due to be discharged and welcome them > settle into new conditions which may have arisen during their long > absence. > To help them settle down to everyday civilian life and work and to help > them > fight reaction. > We will parade on Victory Day on a date yet to be decided, men will want > to > look sharp and presentable on the day". > Standing on the table, General Lewis then addressed the meeting :-- As an > old soldier, who followed the drum for forty years, I tell you the success > of the movement will depend upon us all sticking together, we should be > comrades, in sickness and in health, in bad times and good times, as we > were in the trenches of which I have had experience, remember the trenches > and we shall achieve victory for our cause and glory for our comrades, > remember the trenches, men.". > Mr Geoghegan told the meeting that there were plans to hold a Social and > Dance in the Deighton Hall in February, he said he would welcome any > support > from the members. > Mr. Curran said that he knew of a building in Burrin Street that could be > restored and made of use for meetings. Rev. Ridgeway replied that Mr > Slocock > had contacted him earlier that day in relation to the vacant building > referred to by Mr. Curran, and he would be asking the committee to look at > it next week. > Colonel Browne-Clayton offered to pay the rent for the first twelve months > if the building was suitable. > The meeting concluded with the singing of the National Anthem and three > rousing cheers for the King. > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Minute Book of the "Comrades of the Great War Society" records that the first meeting of the society was called by Lieut-Colonel Browne-Clayton on Monday, 30th December, 1918. It was held in the Deighton Memorial Hall, Burrin Street. The meeting was attended by 67 men, many of them ex-soldiers of the British Army, wearing the Discharge Silver Badge. Also among the attendance were a number of men wearing Khaki, home on leave or invalided out. There were also a number of civilians present who had relatives in service. The meeting was addressed by Sapper B.W. Bagenal, 10th Field Company, Australian Engineers. It was decided to establish a "Post" in Carlow town. Sapper Bagenal stated: "that it was imperative that rooms or a building should be procured in order to establish a meeting and recreation place for members. "Other desirable arrangements in the interests of members would include a Library and Reading Room with a plentiful supply of quality newspapers, a Licence to sell Beer would be sought and a canteen established where members who have stood "shoulder to shoulder" in the Great War on the Sea, Land and in the Air, would be able to spend leisure time among old comrades and friends" Mr. W.J. Webster, late C.Q.M.S., Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, and Organising Secretary for central Ireland attended. The following Officers and Committee were elected. Trustees: Viscount French, Lord Beresford, Colonel John Ward, M.P. Rev. S. Ridgeway. President : Lieut-Colonel Robert Browne-Clayton, D.S.O. Officers : General Lewis, D.S.O. Commander Forbes. Medical Advisor : Dr. W.H. O' Meara, M.D. Carlow Pensions Committee Medical Referee. Captain : Sergeant-Major Trundle Chairman: Rev. S. Ridgeway. Chairman : Mr. B.F. Bagenal. D.L. Hon. Treasurer : John Norris. Secretary : John Connolly. Committee: Ex-Sergeant Bigley, Graigue ; Sergeant Rea, Sergeant Bigley, Carlow. ; J. Bryan, J. Connolly, M. Geoghegan, C. Burke, J. Morris, P. Geoghegan, P.Shaw, C. Connell, W. Curran, T. Walker. M. Millar, P.Nolan, J. Kelly. Addressing the meeting Colonel Browne-Clayton said :--- "members could travel to any town in the Empire and ask for the nearest "Comrades Club" there they would find a friend who will help them in any way he can. Tonight we have a "Post" but when we have 100 members we will be enlarged to a Branch. Posts are already established in Rathvilly, Tullow and Bagenalstown. We are non-political and non-sectarian, we have won the right to have a voice in the affairs of Ireland and a responsibility which will be wisely used. We must help the men who are due to be discharged and welcome them settle into new conditions which may have arisen during their long absence. To help them settle down to everyday civilian life and work and to help them fight reaction. We will parade on Victory Day on a date yet to be decided, men will want to look sharp and presentable on the day". Standing on the table, General Lewis then addressed the meeting :-- As an old soldier, who followed the drum for forty years, I tell you the success of the movement will depend upon us all sticking together, we should be comrades, in sickness and in health, in bad times and good times, as we were in the trenches of which I have had experience, remember the trenches and we shall achieve victory for our cause and glory for our comrades, remember the trenches, men.". Mr Geoghegan told the meeting that there were plans to hold a Social and Dance in the Deighton Hall in February, he said he would welcome any support from the members. Mr. Curran said that he knew of a building in Burrin Street that could be restored and made of use for meetings. Rev. Ridgeway replied that Mr Slocock had contacted him earlier that day in relation to the vacant building referred to by Mr. Curran, and he would be asking the committee to look at it next week. Colonel Browne-Clayton offered to pay the rent for the first twelve months if the building was suitable. The meeting concluded with the singing of the National Anthem and three rousing cheers for the King.

The Minute Book of the "Comrades of the Great War Society" records that the first meeting of the society was called by Lieut-Colonel Browne-Clayton on Monday, 30th December, 1918. It was held in the Deighton Memorial Hall, Burrin Street. The meeting was attended by 67 men, many of them ex-soldiers of the British Army, wearing the Discharge Silver Badge. Also among the attendance were a number of men wearing Khaki, home on leave or invalided out. The meeting was addressed by Sapper B.W. Bagenal, 10th Field Company, Australian Engineers. It was decided to establish a "Post" in Carlow town. Sapper Bagenal stated: "that it was imperative that rooms or a building should be procured in order to established a meeting and recreation place for members. "Other desirable arrangements in the interests of members would include a Library and Reading Room with a plentiful supply of quality newspapers, a Licence to sell Beer would be sought and a canteen established where members who have stood "shoulder to shoulder" in the Great War on the Sea, Land and in the Air, would be able to spend leisure time among old comrades and friends" Mr. W.J. Webster, late C.Q.M.S., Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, and Organising Secretary for central Ireland. The following Officers and Committee were elected. Trustees: Viscount French, Lord Beresford, Colonel John Ward, M.P. Rev. S. Ridgeway. President : Lieut-Colonel Robert Browne-Clayton, D.S.O. Officers : General Lewis, D.S.O. Commander Forbes. Medical Advisor : Dr. W.H. O' Meara, M.D. Carlow Pensions Committee Medical Referee. Captain : Sergeant-Major Trundle Chairman: Rev. S. Ridgeway. Chairman : Mr. B.F. Bagenal. D.L. Hon. Treasurer : John Norris. Secretary : John Connolly. Committee: Ex-Sergeant Bigley, Graigue ; Sergeant Rea, Sergeant Bigley, Carlow. ; J. Bryan, J. Connolly, M. Geoghegan, C. Burke, J. Morris, P. Geoghegan, P.Shaw, C. Connell, W. Curran, T. Walker. M. Millar, P.Nolan, J. Kelly. Addressing the meeting Colonel Browne-Clayton said :--- "members could travel to any town in the Empire and ask for the nearest "Comrades Club" there they would find a friend who will help them in any way he can. Tonight we have a "Post" but when we have 100 members we will be enlarged to a Branch. Posts are already established in Rathvilly, Tullow and Bagenalstown. We are non-political and non-sectarian, we have won the right to have a voice in the affairs of Ireland and a responsibility which will be wisely used. We must help the men who are due to be discharged and welcome them settle into new conditions which may have arisen during their long absence. To help them settle down to everyday civilian life and work and to help them fight reaction. We will parade on Victory Day on a date yet to be decided, men will want to look sharp and presentable on the day". Standing on the table, General Lewis then addressed the meeting :-- As an old soldier, who followed the drum for forty years, I tell you the success of the movement will depend upon us all sticking together, we should be comrades, in sickness and in health, in bad times and good times, as we were in the trenches of which I have had experience, remember the trenches and we shall achieve victory for our cause and glory for our comrades, remember the trenches, men.". Mr Geoghegan told the meeting that there were plans to hold a Social and Dance in the Deighton Hall in February, he said he would welcome any support from the members. Mr. Curran said that he knew of a building in Burrin Street that could be restored and made of use for meetings. Rev. Ridgeway replied that Mr Slocock had contacted him earlier that day in relation to the vacant building referred to by Mr. Curran, and he would be asking the committee to look at it next week. Colonel Browne-Clayton offered to pay the rent for the first twelve months if the building was suitable. The meeting concluded with the signing of the National Anthem and three rousing cheers for the King.

Hi Michael I will have the result from research ready for you tomorrow, which cover Lt Col Charles Carlyle Macdowell himself and both his father and Grandfather.     all the best Terry     --- El jue, 25/3/10, michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> escribió: De: michael purcell <carlowmike@gmail.com> Asunto: [IRL-CARLOW] Military interest anyone ? Para: irl-carlow@rootsweb.com Fecha: jueves, 25 de marzo, 2010 19:50 it would be interesting to learn what became of the most recent "Roll of Honour"  recipient :-- Lieut-Colonel C.C. Mcdowell, D.S.O. Maybe Terry Curran might track him , mick P.S. The heading  "ROLL OF HONOUR" is as it appears on the Carlow Sentinel. ======================================= Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must subscribe to the List. Its FREE! --------------------------------------- To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com  with the word "subscribe" (without the quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Irish War of Independence Jan. 1919 -- July 1922. In an earlier reference I confused dates for the forming of the Black and Tans and the Police Auxiliary Cadets ( Auxies). The following notes are extracted from the PPP. ( "Irish Republican Brotherhood Recollections" recorded in a copy book and uncovered by Jean Casey recently.) "The Black and Tans were formed in December 1919 when British ex-soldiers and sailors were recruited as a support force for the Royal Irish Constabulary. Their wage was 10 shillings per day and cigarettes. The "Tans" arrived in Ireland on the 25th March 1920 ( many of the participants in the struggle for independence would refer to the period following their arrival as "the Tan war"). The Auxiliaries were formed in June 1920, those who joined were demobilized officers of the British army. They arrived in Ireland in July 1920. Their wage was £1.00 a day. The "Auxies" were not under military discipline and they soon gained a reputation for brutality and ruthlessness. A distinctive feature of their dress was that they wore a belt with two holsters each containing a revolver. The term "Black and Tans" was often applied by the Irish to the Auxiliaries and also to British-born constables in the R.I.C. and sometimes even to the soldiers in the regular British army."

I found that my LARGE great grandfather's sisters were first baptized in the Church of Ireland, then a month (for two of them) to three years later, were baptized again in the RC church. Their father was Protestant, the mother was RC. Family legend claims there was much bickering between the two families--so I am guessing the baptism records confirm the tale. Deb DEBORAH LARGE FOX Read my blog for Irish research tips: "Help! The Faerie Folk Hid My Ancestors!" http://irishfamilyresearch.blogspot.com

My experience shows me that in Ireland the RC child was almost baptised from the womb, either by someone within the home or the current priest, with Church of Ireland it was a little different they seemed to have a waiting time to baptise them, but early when mortality rate was higher, it appears they also baptised as close to birth as possible. I have to say that I doubt that a child waited to baptised anywhere if there was someone who was concerned the child may die they baptised that said child immediately so if they waited in America to be baptised they must have been born of good stock. ( which is good) Cheers Cara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Shipman" <leshipman1@att.net> To: <irl-carlow@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:12 AM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] General question about baptisms >I would like to know if it was common in Carlow (around the late 1700's to >early 1800's) for newborns to be baptised right after birth...or was it >common to wait for a period of time? In America, it often happened that >newborns had to await their baptism (sometimes for years) because of no >church or official to do the baptismal. > > Thank you for any comments. > Linda > ======================================= > Before you post a message to the IRL-CARLOW mailing list you must > subscribe to the List. Its FREE! > --------------------------------------- > To subscribe to the IRL-Carlow mailing list, send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word "subscribe" (without the > quotes) in the Subject box. No additional text is required. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-CARLOW-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2761 - Release Date: 03/21/10 07:33:00