Dear "Friends of Carlow", Just adding my thanks for your work cataloging the PPP, a mammoth task; much appreciated. Looking forward to reading your upcoming posts. Karen.

Could you elaborate a little on the Toler-Aylward Papers please, do they cover the Leighlin region ?. On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Friend of Carlow < [email protected]> wrote: > We have now catalogued the Pat Purcell Papers and have moved the archive to > secure storage., Over the years since Pat's death the collection was moved > many times, we found it to be in total disorder and whatever format Pat > originally had assembled the collection in was long since broken up and had > been rearranged many times, with no evidence of organization or function. > It was impossible to catalogue on the principle of original order. We have > done our best to establish a chronological record inventory arranged by > year or if the content overlapped into other years we have attempted to > file under subject. There were many gaps as some of the PPP is in other > hands having been removed from the main collection. Unfortunately with so > little time we were unable to compile an index of surnames. Within the PPP > were various collections such as the Brophy Papers (52 items), Marlborough > Clake-Douglas Papers (15 items), Toler-Aylward Papers, (324 items ) Vigor > Papers ( 430 items), Bunbury Papers (524 items), Beresford Papers ( 189 > items), Browne-Clayton Papers (1,750 items, mainly photocopies compiled in > recent times with main original collection donated to Carlow County > Library), Letters (792 items), Genealogical enquiries (220 dating from > 1920s) Irish Republican Brotherhood Papers (129 items), Irish Republican > Army records (109 items ), Cumann na mBan records (87 items),War of > Independence Records (523 items), Civil War Records (512 items), Political > Papers (2,010 items), Photos (128 items), Family (327 items), Legal Papers, > Deeds etc. (1,645 items), Duggan Papers (272 items) Religious (413 items), > Newspapers (312 items), bound books plus the main collection of the PPP. > The hope is that they will remain in storage until such a time as a Archive > Centre is established for Carlow. In the meantime we have many photocopies > of items which we hope to share as time permits with Carlow IGP in the > future. I know that Mick Purcell will be offline until Christmas as he will > be in Berlin carrying out research. As we will be operating voluntary from > our home computers we can only correspond through the IGP List. We are > unable to respond to individual emails. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A big big thank you from me as well. The work you have undertaken is extremely important and so valuable to us all. If we can find something about our own family it is fantastic, but the general knowledge gained of the cultural and social aspects of our ancestors lives is incredible. There are few other resources to compare with our own PPP! We are so fortunate! Thanks! Sue -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Pat Purcell Papers. We have now catalogued the Pat Purcell Papers and have moved the archive to secure storage., Over the years since Pat's death the collection was moved many times, we found it to be in total disorder and whatever format Pat originally had assembled the collection in was long since broken up and had been rearranged many times, with no evidence of organization or function. It was impossible to catalogue on the principle of original order. We have done our best to establish a chronological record inventory arranged by year or if the content overlapped into other years we have attempted to file under subject. There were many gaps as some of the PPP is in other hands having been removed from the main collection. Unfortunately with so little time we were unable to compile an index of surnames. Within the PPP were various collections such as the Brophy Papers (52 items), Marlborough Clake-Douglas Papers (15 items), Toler-Aylward Papers, (324 items ) Vigor Papers ( 430 items), Bunbury Papers (524 items), Beresford Papers ( 189 items), Browne-Clayton Papers (1,750 items, mainly photocopies compiled in recent times with main original collection donated to Carlow County Library), Letters (792 items), Genealogical enquiries (220 dating from 1920s) Irish Republican Brotherhood Papers (129 items), Irish Republican Army records (109 items ), Cumann na mBan records (87 items),War of Independence Records (523 items), Civil War Records (512 items), Political Papers (2,010 items), Photos (128 items), Family (327 items), Legal Papers, Deeds etc. (1,645 items), Duggan Papers (272 items) Religious (413 items), Newspapers (312 items), bound books plus the main collection of the PPP. The hope is that they will remain in storage until such a time as a Archive Centre is established for Carlow. In the meantime we have many photocopies of items which we hope to share as time permits with Carlow IGP in the future. I know that Mick Purcell will be offline until Christmas as he will be in Berlin carrying out research. As we will be operating voluntary from our home computers we can only correspond through the IGP List. We are unable to respond to individual emails.

To all those who carefully reconstructed Pat Purcell's family history collection: Congratulations on an outstanding job. I am particularly interested in the Beresford papers since there may be documents referring to the Darcy, Murphy and Stapleton families of Rathnageeragh townland and adjacent townlands. Tom Reed New Castle, DE USA --------------------------------------- Original E-mail >From : Michelle Wilson [[email protected]] Date : 04/30/2012 06:57 PM To : [email protected] Subject : Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Pat Purcell Papers. THANK YOU SO MUCH for all the work you all have done with this monsterous job. It is my hope that down the line there will be some index with family names, as Mike found some evidence that his Uncle Pat had done some genealogical reserach for my late Aunt in the 1930's. She and all the family info she found were lost in WW2 but I hope that maybe some evidence of his work for her will show up some day before I die.He was researching the FARLEY, MAGEE familes of Dublin and LEMON, ADAMS family of Carlow. Anyway...just wanted to say Thank you, and want you to know that many of us truly appreciate the long tedious hours that you all put in. Michelle Wilson Vermont USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Friend of Carlow" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:33 PM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Pat Purcell Papers. > We have now catalogued the Pat Purcell Papers and have moved the archive > to > secure storage., Over the years since Pat's death the collection was moved > many times, we found it to be in total disorder and whatever format Pat > originally had assembled the collection in was long since broken up and > had > been rearranged many times, with no evidence of organization or function. > It was impossible to catalogue on the principle of original order. We > have > done our best to establish a chronological record inventory arranged by > year or if the content overlapped into other years we have attempted to > file under subject. There were many gaps as some of the PPP is in other > hands having been removed from the main collection. Unfortunately with so > little time we were unable to compile an index of surnames. Within the PPP > were various collections such as the Brophy Papers (52 items), Marlborough > Clake-Douglas Papers (15 items), Toler-Aylward Papers, (324 items ) Vigor > Papers ( 430 items), Bunbury Papers (524 items), Beresford Papers ( 189 > items), Browne-Clayton Papers (1,750 items, mainly photocopies compiled in > recent times with main original collection donated to Carlow County > Library), Letters (792 items), Genealogical enquiries (220 dating from > 1920s) Irish Republican Brotherhood Papers (129 items), Irish Republican > Army records (109 items ), Cumann na mBan records (87 items),War of > Independence Records (523 items), Civil War Records (512 items), > Political > Papers (2,010 items), Photos (128 items), Family (327 items), Legal > Papers, > Deeds etc. (1,645 items), Duggan Papers (272 items) Religious (413 > items), > Newspapers (312 items), bound books plus the main collection of the PPP. > The hope is that they will remain in storage until such a time as a > Archive > Centre is established for Carlow. In the meantime we have many photocopies > of items which we hope to share as time permits with Carlow IGP in the > future. I know that Mick Purcell will be offline until Christmas as he > will > be in Berlin carrying out research. As we will be operating voluntary from > our home computers we can only correspond through the IGP List. We are > unable to respond to individual emails. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

THANK YOU SO MUCH for all the work you all have done with this monsterous job. It is my hope that down the line there will be some index with family names, as Mike found some evidence that his Uncle Pat had done some genealogical reserach for my late Aunt in the 1930's. She and all the family info she found were lost in WW2 but I hope that maybe some evidence of his work for her will show up some day before I die.He was researching the FARLEY, MAGEE familes of Dublin and LEMON, ADAMS family of Carlow. Anyway...just wanted to say Thank you, and want you to know that many of us truly appreciate the long tedious hours that you all put in. Michelle Wilson Vermont USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Friend of Carlow" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:33 PM Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Pat Purcell Papers. > We have now catalogued the Pat Purcell Papers and have moved the archive > to > secure storage., Over the years since Pat's death the collection was moved > many times, we found it to be in total disorder and whatever format Pat > originally had assembled the collection in was long since broken up and > had > been rearranged many times, with no evidence of organization or function. > It was impossible to catalogue on the principle of original order. We > have > done our best to establish a chronological record inventory arranged by > year or if the content overlapped into other years we have attempted to > file under subject. There were many gaps as some of the PPP is in other > hands having been removed from the main collection. Unfortunately with so > little time we were unable to compile an index of surnames. Within the PPP > were various collections such as the Brophy Papers (52 items), Marlborough > Clake-Douglas Papers (15 items), Toler-Aylward Papers, (324 items ) Vigor > Papers ( 430 items), Bunbury Papers (524 items), Beresford Papers ( 189 > items), Browne-Clayton Papers (1,750 items, mainly photocopies compiled in > recent times with main original collection donated to Carlow County > Library), Letters (792 items), Genealogical enquiries (220 dating from > 1920s) Irish Republican Brotherhood Papers (129 items), Irish Republican > Army records (109 items ), Cumann na mBan records (87 items),War of > Independence Records (523 items), Civil War Records (512 items), > Political > Papers (2,010 items), Photos (128 items), Family (327 items), Legal > Papers, > Deeds etc. (1,645 items), Duggan Papers (272 items) Religious (413 > items), > Newspapers (312 items), bound books plus the main collection of the PPP. > The hope is that they will remain in storage until such a time as a > Archive > Centre is established for Carlow. In the meantime we have many photocopies > of items which we hope to share as time permits with Carlow IGP in the > future. I know that Mick Purcell will be offline until Christmas as he > will > be in Berlin carrying out research. As we will be operating voluntary from > our home computers we can only correspond through the IGP List. We are > unable to respond to individual emails. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We have now catalogued the Pat Purcell Papers and have moved the archive to secure storage., Over the years since Pat's death the collection was moved many times, we found it to be in total disorder and whatever format Pat originally had assembled the collection in was long since broken up and had been rearranged many times, with no evidence of organization or function. It was impossible to catalogue on the principle of original order. We have done our best to establish a chronological record inventory arranged by year or if the content overlapped into other years we have attempted to file under subject. There were many gaps as some of the PPP is in other hands having been removed from the main collection. Unfortunately with so little time we were unable to compile an index of surnames. Within the PPP were various collections such as the Brophy Papers (52 items), Marlborough Clake-Douglas Papers (15 items), Toler-Aylward Papers, (324 items ) Vigor Papers ( 430 items), Bunbury Papers (524 items), Beresford Papers ( 189 items), Browne-Clayton Papers (1,750 items, mainly photocopies compiled in recent times with main original collection donated to Carlow County Library), Letters (792 items), Genealogical enquiries (220 dating from 1920s) Irish Republican Brotherhood Papers (129 items), Irish Republican Army records (109 items ), Cumann na mBan records (87 items),War of Independence Records (523 items), Civil War Records (512 items), Political Papers (2,010 items), Photos (128 items), Family (327 items), Legal Papers, Deeds etc. (1,645 items), Duggan Papers (272 items) Religious (413 items), Newspapers (312 items), bound books plus the main collection of the PPP. The hope is that they will remain in storage until such a time as a Archive Centre is established for Carlow. In the meantime we have many photocopies of items which we hope to share as time permits with Carlow IGP in the future. I know that Mick Purcell will be offline until Christmas as he will be in Berlin carrying out research. As we will be operating voluntary from our home computers we can only correspond through the IGP List. We are unable to respond to individual emails.

Thanks very much for this Was the sand pit just east of the railway line and south of St Killian's Crescent ? Where did Comrades of the Great War Club meet ? PD 28 April 2012 15:17, Terry Curran <[email protected]> wrote: > This is on the Carlow site and Turtle Bunbury site, > > > > 30th April: Died Owen Rice, aged 26 years, Factory Hand, Staplestown Road, > Carlow. Shot by Crown Forces. (Transcribed by Mary Corcoran - unusual > entries in Carlow Cathedral Death Register). An employee of the Carlow Boot > Factory and 'practically the only support of his mother', he was shot about > 20 or 30 yards from his own front door on Staplestown Road. His death > occurred on a Saturday evening when 'a large number of young men were as > usual engaged in a game of pitch and toss in a place known as the Sandpit, > in a rather populous district. Naturally when the shooting began the crowds > ran in all directions and the wonder is more tragedies did not happen. > Naturally when the shooting began the crowds ran in all directions and the > wonder is more tragedies did not happen.' 'Michael Byrne , ex-soldier, who > said he had fought in France, Salouika, Macedonia, Palestine, Sudan, etc., > deposed that he was a relation of the deceased. He came home on the night in > question about 20 minutes to ten, as he had been at the Comrades of the > Great War Club. He asked the officer to let him do something for Rice who > was lying on the ground. The officer refused.' Owen Rice's funeral was > marked by the closure of all business establishments and factories in the > town from 8:30 until 4pm. 'Included in the thousands that marched in the > procession were more than twelve hundred members of the Carlow Sacred Heart > Sodality of which Owen was an exemplary and devoted member. The Banners of > the Sodality formed an imposing feature of the cortege, and many people in > the procession could not conceal their emotion as the coffin was borne past > his mother's lonely door.' (PPP) > > > > As a side note the death of Owen cause rife between Curran's of Granby Row > the Rice's of Stapletowns Road. The Curran's of Granby Row are related to > me via my Granfather,. The Curran's disowned one of theirs (a William > Curran) due to him been in the Army and at the Comrades of the Great War > Club on the night of Owens death.To make matters worse William Curran's > Sister was married to Owen's Cousin and closed ranks with her Rice in-laws. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2012, 5:47 > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] James Duffy 1891- 1921. > > I accept what I related was "hearsay", he did say it and I did hear it. > > > When did the Auxiliaries arrive in Carlow? > > Were the tans ever there? > > Were the RIC armed or were only the Auxiliaries ? > > If all were armed during this period were the RIC armed prior to the > troubles ? > > One last question, is there any record of a civilian shot near the railway > bridge on staplestown road? > > PD > > On 27 April 2012 09:14, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on > > Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not > > ever destroyed by fire. > > The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans, never > happened. > > The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the vicinity > > of the Mall was James Duffy. > > I > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is on the Carlow site and Turtle Bunbury site, 30th April: Died Owen Rice, aged 26 years, Factory Hand, Staplestown Road, Carlow. Shot by Crown Forces. (Transcribed by Mary Corcoran - unusual entries in Carlow Cathedral Death Register). An employee of the Carlow Boot Factory and 'practically the only support of his mother', he was shot about 20 or 30 yards from his own front door on Staplestown Road. His death occurred on a Saturday evening when 'a large number of young men were as usual engaged in a game of pitch and toss in a place known as the Sandpit, in a rather populous district. Naturally when the shooting began the crowds ran in all directions and the wonder is more tragedies did not happen. Naturally when the shooting began the crowds ran in all directions and the wonder is more tragedies did not happen.' 'Michael Byrne , ex-soldier, who said he had fought in France, Salouika, Macedonia, Palestine, Sudan, etc., deposed that he was a relation of the deceased. He came home on the night in question about 20 minutes to ten, as he had been at the Comrades of the Great War Club. He asked the officer to let him do something for Rice who was lying on the ground. The officer refused.' Owen Rice's funeral was marked by the closure of all business establishments and factories in the town from 8:30 until 4pm. 'Included in the thousands that marched in the procession were more than twelve hundred members of the Carlow Sacred Heart Sodality of which Owen was an exemplary and devoted member. The Banners of the Sodality formed an imposing feature of the cortege, and many people in the procession could not conceal their emotion as the coffin was borne past his mother's lonely door.' (PPP)  As a side note the death of Owen cause rife between Curran's of Granby Row the Rice's of Stapletowns Road. The Curran's of Granby Row are related to me via my Granfather,. The Curran's disowned one of theirs (a William Curran)  due to him been in the Army and at the Comrades of the Great War Club on the night of Owens death.To make matters worse William Curran's Sister was married to Owen's Cousin and closed ranks with her Rice in-laws.  ________________________________ From: CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2012, 5:47 Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] James Duffy 1891- 1921. I accept what I related was "hearsay", he did say it and I did hear it. When did the Auxiliaries arrive in Carlow? Were the tans ever there? Were the RIC armed or were only the Auxiliaries ? If all were armed during this period were the RIC armed prior to the troubles ? One last question, is there any record of a civilian shot near the railway bridge on staplestown road? PD On 27 April 2012 09:14, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on > Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not > ever destroyed by fire. >  The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans,  never happened. > The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the vicinity > of the Mall was James Duffy. > I ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I accept what I related was "hearsay", he did say it and I did hear it. When did the Auxiliaries arrive in Carlow? Were the tans ever there? Were the RIC armed or were only the Auxiliaries ? If all were armed during this period were the RIC armed prior to the troubles ? One last question, is there any record of a civilian shot near the railway bridge on staplestown road? PD On 27 April 2012 09:14, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on > Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not > ever destroyed by fire. > The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans, never happened. > The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the vicinity > of the Mall was James Duffy. > I

This an article on Maj-Gen. James Lillis, Born Tullow, Co. Carlow in 1897. Service Corps -Supply and Transport Senior appointments held: Commanding Officer Military College 1950-51 GOC. Curragh Command 1951-52 Assistant Chief-of-Staff 1952-55 Quartermaster General 1955-58. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/James_Lillis.htm Source: Carloviana - December, 1998 No. 46. Pages 86- 87. Regards Michael Brennan County Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm

My previous post should have read December 22, 1920 and February 2, 1921. The Register Number is probably the one you need. I think that the Black and Tans and the Auxiliaries were issued with RIC numbers. Thanks Michael for the explanation of the RGA. On 27 April 2012 21:46, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > J.J. , --- RGA - Royal Garrison Artillery . served in The Great War 1914 > - 18. > My guess is that James enrolled in January 1921 ( date based on the > Carlow Inquest report ) in the AD Royal Irish Constabulary - made up of > ex-officers of the British Army, their pay was one pound a day, known as > Auxiliary Division, they were not subject to military discipline or the > civil courts, they were posted to Ireland in May 1920 as support to the > RIC. > The Black and Tans were posted in March 1920, they were paid 10 shillings a > day. > > > > > On 27 April 2012 21:30, JJ Woods <[email protected]> wrote: > > > If he joined the RIC in 1914 then it would appear as if his Register > Number > > is 67658. The numbers between 67001 and 69000 were issued between > December > > 16, 1912 and February 15, 1917. The number quoted above is the only one > for > > a James Duffy in that period > > > > This information is extracted from Jim Herlihy's excellent and exhaustive > > publication "The Royal Irish Constabulary. A complete Alphabetical List > of > > Officers and Men, 1816-1922." > > > > What is/was/were the RGA? It is my first time to encounter this > > abbreviation. > > > > J. J. > > > > > > On 27 April 2012 09:14, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on > > > Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not > > > ever destroyed by fire. > > > The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans, never > > happened. > > > The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the > vicinity > > > of the Mall was James Duffy. > > > It would appear from the evidence at the Inquest that James Duffy was a > > > member of the AUX Division....the Black and Tans were not stationed in > > > Carlow at this time. > > > Relatives of James Duffy are eager to find out as much as they can > about > > > him, I have requested they send me his Service Number. > > > Generally I am suspicious of members posting enquiries on the Carlow > IGP > > on > > > behalf of "a friend" or as a "favour" to some unknown unknown and for > > which > > > they may be charging a hefty fee to the "friend" for any information > > > willingly shared by our members but in this case the relatives of James > > > Duffy live in Monaghan, are elderly, and have not subscribed to Carlow > > IGP. > > > There is no fee involved and I can share their email address with > anyone > > > who is interested. > > > On 27 April 2012 04:41, CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > This brings to mind a conversation I had many years ago with the then > > > owner > > > > of Fitzpatrick's Pub. The Black and Tans arrived at the pub and > forced > > > the > > > > family out, they threatened to burn it but I can't recall that the > did > > > burn > > > > it. > > > > However soon afterwards three Black & Tans were apprehended in the > > > vicinity > > > > of the Mall, shot and buried some where near by! I wonder if this is > > > linked > > > > to the ambush mentioned? > > > > > > > > Were they Tans or Auxiliaries ? > > > > > > > > PD > > > > "The past is a different country" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 26 April 2012 16:01, michael purcell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Can any reader help Mike with his search ? > > > > > > > > > > 9th April 1921. > > > > > CARLOW R.I.C. CONSTABLE KILLED. > > > > > CIVILIAN SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. > > > > > On Sunday night at about 8.30 p.m. (Summer Time), Constable James > > > Duffy, > > > > > Royal Irish Constabulary, Carlow, was shot dead between the Mall > and > > > > > .......................... into Mr Fitzpatrick's licensed premises > to > > > > have > > > > > a drink. Then they > > > > > left, evidently intending to be back in Carlow before the Curfew > > hour. > > > > > At about a quarter of a mile on the Carlow side of Fitzpatricks > they > > > were > > > > > held up by three armed men who had been sitting in the hedge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

J.J. , --- RGA - Royal Garrison Artillery . served in The Great War 1914 - 18. My guess is that James enrolled in January 1921 ( date based on the Carlow Inquest report ) in the AD Royal Irish Constabulary - made up of ex-officers of the British Army, their pay was one pound a day, known as Auxiliary Division, they were not subject to military discipline or the civil courts, they were posted to Ireland in May 1920 as support to the RIC. The Black and Tans were posted in March 1920, they were paid 10 shillings a day. On 27 April 2012 21:30, JJ Woods <[email protected]> wrote: > If he joined the RIC in 1914 then it would appear as if his Register Number > is 67658. The numbers between 67001 and 69000 were issued between December > 16, 1912 and February 15, 1917. The number quoted above is the only one for > a James Duffy in that period > > This information is extracted from Jim Herlihy's excellent and exhaustive > publication "The Royal Irish Constabulary. A complete Alphabetical List of > Officers and Men, 1816-1922." > > What is/was/were the RGA? It is my first time to encounter this > abbreviation. > > J. J. > > > On 27 April 2012 09:14, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on > > Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not > > ever destroyed by fire. > > The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans, never > happened. > > The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the vicinity > > of the Mall was James Duffy. > > It would appear from the evidence at the Inquest that James Duffy was a > > member of the AUX Division....the Black and Tans were not stationed in > > Carlow at this time. > > Relatives of James Duffy are eager to find out as much as they can about > > him, I have requested they send me his Service Number. > > Generally I am suspicious of members posting enquiries on the Carlow IGP > on > > behalf of "a friend" or as a "favour" to some unknown unknown and for > which > > they may be charging a hefty fee to the "friend" for any information > > willingly shared by our members but in this case the relatives of James > > Duffy live in Monaghan, are elderly, and have not subscribed to Carlow > IGP. > > There is no fee involved and I can share their email address with anyone > > who is interested. > > On 27 April 2012 04:41, CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > This brings to mind a conversation I had many years ago with the then > > owner > > > of Fitzpatrick's Pub. The Black and Tans arrived at the pub and forced > > the > > > family out, they threatened to burn it but I can't recall that the did > > burn > > > it. > > > However soon afterwards three Black & Tans were apprehended in the > > vicinity > > > of the Mall, shot and buried some where near by! I wonder if this is > > linked > > > to the ambush mentioned? > > > > > > Were they Tans or Auxiliaries ? > > > > > > PD > > > "The past is a different country" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 26 April 2012 16:01, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Can any reader help Mike with his search ? > > > > > > > > 9th April 1921. > > > > CARLOW R.I.C. CONSTABLE KILLED. > > > > CIVILIAN SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. > > > > On Sunday night at about 8.30 p.m. (Summer Time), Constable James > > Duffy, > > > > Royal Irish Constabulary, Carlow, was shot dead between the Mall and > > > > .......................... into Mr Fitzpatrick's licensed premises to > > > have > > > > a drink. Then they > > > > left, evidently intending to be back in Carlow before the Curfew > hour. > > > > At about a quarter of a mile on the Carlow side of Fitzpatricks they > > were > > > > held up by three armed men who had been sitting in the hedge. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On reading earlier posts the date December 28, 1920 is mentioned. In that case the Register Number is 77133. Register Numbers between 77001 and 79000 were issued between December 22, 1922 and February 2, 1921. It would appear that there was very serious recruiting at that time. J. J. On 27 April 2012 21:30, JJ Woods <[email protected]> wrote: > If he joined the RIC in 1914 then it would appear as if his Register > Number is 67658. The numbers between 67001 and 69000 were issued between > December 16, 1912 and February 15, 1917. The number quoted above is the > only one for a James Duffy in that period > > This information is extracted from Jim Herlihy's excellent and exhaustive > publication "The Royal Irish Constabulary. A complete Alphabetical List of > Officers and Men, 1816-1922." > > What is/was/were the RGA? It is my first time to encounter this > abbreviation. > > J. J. > > > On 27 April 2012 09:14, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > >> there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on >> Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not >> ever destroyed by fire. >> The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans, never >> happened. >> The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the vicinity >> of the Mall was James Duffy. >> It would appear from the evidence at the Inquest that James Duffy was a >> member of the AUX Division....the Black and Tans were not stationed in >> Carlow at this time. >> Relatives of James Duffy are eager to find out as much as they can about >> him, I have requested they send me his Service Number. >> Generally I am suspicious of members posting enquiries on the Carlow IGP >> on >> behalf of "a friend" or as a "favour" to some unknown unknown and for >> which >> they may be charging a hefty fee to the "friend" for any information >> willingly shared by our members but in this case the relatives of James >> Duffy live in Monaghan, are elderly, and have not subscribed to Carlow >> IGP. >> There is no fee involved and I can share their email address with anyone >> who is interested. >> On 27 April 2012 04:41, CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > This brings to mind a conversation I had many years ago with the then >> owner >> > of Fitzpatrick's Pub. The Black and Tans arrived at the pub and forced >> the >> > family out, they threatened to burn it but I can't recall that the did >> burn >> > it. >> > However soon afterwards three Black & Tans were apprehended in the >> vicinity >> > of the Mall, shot and buried some where near by! I wonder if this is >> linked >> > to the ambush mentioned? >> > >> > Were they Tans or Auxiliaries ? >> > >> > PD >> > "The past is a different country" >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 26 April 2012 16:01, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > Can any reader help Mike with his search ? >> > > >> > > 9th April 1921. >> > > CARLOW R.I.C. CONSTABLE KILLED. >> > > CIVILIAN SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. >> > > On Sunday night at about 8.30 p.m. (Summer Time), Constable James >> Duffy, >> > > Royal Irish Constabulary, Carlow, was shot dead between the Mall and >> > > .......................... into Mr Fitzpatrick's licensed premises to >> > have >> > > a drink. Then they >> > > left, evidently intending to be back in Carlow before the Curfew hour. >> > > At about a quarter of a mile on the Carlow side of Fitzpatricks they >> were >> > > held up by three armed men who had been sitting in the hedge. >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

If he joined the RIC in 1914 then it would appear as if his Register Number is 67658. The numbers between 67001 and 69000 were issued between December 16, 1912 and February 15, 1917. The number quoted above is the only one for a James Duffy in that period This information is extracted from Jim Herlihy's excellent and exhaustive publication "The Royal Irish Constabulary. A complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men, 1816-1922." What is/was/were the RGA? It is my first time to encounter this abbreviation. J. J. On 27 April 2012 09:14, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on > Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not > ever destroyed by fire. > The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans, never happened. > The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the vicinity > of the Mall was James Duffy. > It would appear from the evidence at the Inquest that James Duffy was a > member of the AUX Division....the Black and Tans were not stationed in > Carlow at this time. > Relatives of James Duffy are eager to find out as much as they can about > him, I have requested they send me his Service Number. > Generally I am suspicious of members posting enquiries on the Carlow IGP on > behalf of "a friend" or as a "favour" to some unknown unknown and for which > they may be charging a hefty fee to the "friend" for any information > willingly shared by our members but in this case the relatives of James > Duffy live in Monaghan, are elderly, and have not subscribed to Carlow IGP. > There is no fee involved and I can share their email address with anyone > who is interested. > On 27 April 2012 04:41, CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This brings to mind a conversation I had many years ago with the then > owner > > of Fitzpatrick's Pub. The Black and Tans arrived at the pub and forced > the > > family out, they threatened to burn it but I can't recall that the did > burn > > it. > > However soon afterwards three Black & Tans were apprehended in the > vicinity > > of the Mall, shot and buried some where near by! I wonder if this is > linked > > to the ambush mentioned? > > > > Were they Tans or Auxiliaries ? > > > > PD > > "The past is a different country" > > > > > > > > > > On 26 April 2012 16:01, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Can any reader help Mike with his search ? > > > > > > 9th April 1921. > > > CARLOW R.I.C. CONSTABLE KILLED. > > > CIVILIAN SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. > > > On Sunday night at about 8.30 p.m. (Summer Time), Constable James > Duffy, > > > Royal Irish Constabulary, Carlow, was shot dead between the Mall and > > > .......................... into Mr Fitzpatrick's licensed premises to > > have > > > a drink. Then they > > > left, evidently intending to be back in Carlow before the Curfew hour. > > > At about a quarter of a mile on the Carlow side of Fitzpatricks they > were > > > held up by three armed men who had been sitting in the hedge. > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks PD for the insight to Lawry's Lane. It would be great if we could get some photos. Regards Michael Brennan County Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm Message: 4 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 04:18:30 +0100 From: CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Lawry's Lane Carlow If you walked in to Dempsey's yard through the vehicle gateway beside the shop entrance in the 1960's you would see the remains of two rows of houses, these were no longer dwellings but were used by the Dempsey family business for storage of "everything from a needle to an anchor", since then the houses have been demolished and various sheds erected. In my earlier contribution I mentioned the Courthouse, this was only to give some sense of direction, the Courthouse was built well after 1798. Lowery's lane may have run parallel to School Lane ? Perhaps a visit to Dempsey's shop and a word with one of the family might lead to some photographs of the old lane, its worth a try. PD

Many thanks for this, Roger! -----Original Message----- From: Roger Nowlan Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 1:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Tinnaclash Cemetery Maribeth, It is the Templepeter cemetery which is close to the Tinnaclash townland. Coming from Carlow town, driving on the N80 in the direction of Ballon it is just past the Fighting Cocks Pub (on right hand-side). Just look for a small laneway/parking lane going off to the left after the Pub. This is where the Templepeter cemetery is and also where most of the Tinnaclash Nolans (and individuals from other well-known Nolan family branches e.g. Kilconnor) are buried. For your information, besides pictures of the Templepeter Nolan tombstones found at my website I also have pictures of “all the tombstones” (in their current state taken in 2009 for future analysis & for creation of a map). I also have a history booklet on the cemetery with all transcriptions (which are also available at the Carlow IGP website (Michael Brennan's). Referring to the following map http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Clonmacshane,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=52.759077,-6.848103&spn=0.001763,0.005284&sll=52.759594,-6.846757&sspn=0.014102,0.042272&t=h&hnear=Clonmacshane,+County+Carlow,+Ireland&z=18 the Templepeter cemetery is northwest from the reference pin A (Clonmacshane townland) past a farmstead and a large field. On the map you can see the laneway veering to the left when coming from Carlow town. Bye for now, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org -----Original Message----- From: Maribeth Nolan Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 12:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Tinnaclash Cemetery Does anyone know the exact location of the cemetery near Tinnaclash? How do you get there from Carlow Town? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Maribeth, It is the Templepeter cemetery which is close to the Tinnaclash townland. Coming from Carlow town, driving on the N80 in the direction of Ballon it is just past the Fighting Cocks Pub (on right hand-side). Just look for a small laneway/parking lane going off to the left after the Pub. This is where the Templepeter cemetery is and also where most of the Tinnaclash Nolans (and individuals from other well-known Nolan family branches e.g. Kilconnor) are buried. For your information, besides pictures of the Templepeter Nolan tombstones found at my website I also have pictures of “all the tombstones” (in their current state taken in 2009 for future analysis & for creation of a map). I also have a history booklet on the cemetery with all transcriptions (which are also available at the Carlow IGP website (Michael Brennan's). Referring to the following map http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Clonmacshane,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=52.759077,-6.848103&spn=0.001763,0.005284&sll=52.759594,-6.846757&sspn=0.014102,0.042272&t=h&hnear=Clonmacshane,+County+Carlow,+Ireland&z=18 the Templepeter cemetery is northwest from the reference pin A (Clonmacshane townland) past a farmstead and a large field. On the map you can see the laneway veering to the left when coming from Carlow town. Bye for now, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org -----Original Message----- From: Maribeth Nolan Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 12:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Tinnaclash Cemetery Does anyone know the exact location of the cemetery near Tinnaclash? How do you get there from Carlow Town? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know the exact location of the cemetery near Tinnaclash? How do you get there from Carlow Town?

Great site, Sharon Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/ On 27/04/2012 10:07 AM, Roger Nowlan wrote: > Maribeth, > > It is the Templepeter cemetery which is close to the Tinnaclash townland. Coming from Carlow town, driving on the N80 in the direction of Ballon it is just past the Fighting Cocks Pub (on right hand-side). Just look for a small laneway/parking lane going off to the left after the Pub. This is where the Templepeter cemetery is and also where most of the Tinnaclash Nolans (and individuals from other well-known Nolan family branches e.g. Kilconnor) are buried. > > For your information, besides pictures of the Templepeter Nolan tombstones found at my website I also have pictures of "all the tombstones" (in their current state taken in 2009 for future analysis& for creation of a map). I also have a history booklet on the cemetery with all transcriptions (which are also available at the Carlow IGP website (Michael Brennan's). > > Referring to the following map > http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Clonmacshane,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=52.759077,-6.848103&spn=0.001763,0.005284&sll=52.759594,-6.846757&sspn=0.014102,0.042272&t=h&hnear=Clonmacshane,+County+Carlow,+Ireland&z=18 > > the Templepeter cemetery is northwest from the reference pin A (Clonmacshane townland) past a farmstead and a large field. > On the map you can see the laneway veering to the left when coming from Carlow town. > > Bye for now, > Roger > http://nolanfamilies.org

there are no reports in the Nationalist or other sources of a raid on Fitzpatrick's Pub during this period, certainly the premises was not ever destroyed by fire. The second incident, shooting and burying Black and Tans, never happened. The only British constable / soldier / auxiliary man shot in the vicinity of the Mall was James Duffy. It would appear from the evidence at the Inquest that James Duffy was a member of the AUX Division....the Black and Tans were not stationed in Carlow at this time. Relatives of James Duffy are eager to find out as much as they can about him, I have requested they send me his Service Number. Generally I am suspicious of members posting enquiries on the Carlow IGP on behalf of "a friend" or as a "favour" to some unknown unknown and for which they may be charging a hefty fee to the "friend" for any information willingly shared by our members but in this case the relatives of James Duffy live in Monaghan, are elderly, and have not subscribed to Carlow IGP. There is no fee involved and I can share their email address with anyone who is interested. On 27 April 2012 04:41, CARLOMAN2 <[email protected]> wrote: > This brings to mind a conversation I had many years ago with the then owner > of Fitzpatrick's Pub. The Black and Tans arrived at the pub and forced the > family out, they threatened to burn it but I can't recall that the did burn > it. > However soon afterwards three Black & Tans were apprehended in the vicinity > of the Mall, shot and buried some where near by! I wonder if this is linked > to the ambush mentioned? > > Were they Tans or Auxiliaries ? > > PD > "The past is a different country" > > > > > On 26 April 2012 16:01, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Can any reader help Mike with his search ? > > > > 9th April 1921. > > CARLOW R.I.C. CONSTABLE KILLED. > > CIVILIAN SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. > > On Sunday night at about 8.30 p.m. (Summer Time), Constable James Duffy, > > Royal Irish Constabulary, Carlow, was shot dead between the Mall and > > .......................... into Mr Fitzpatrick's licensed premises to > have > > a drink. Then they > > left, evidently intending to be back in Carlow before the Curfew hour. > > At about a quarter of a mile on the Carlow side of Fitzpatricks they were > > held up by three armed men who had been sitting in the hedge. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >