I thought we corrected this but it should read : and then set fire to several Faggots of Furze at or against the door with intent to set fire to Motley's House in order to Consume it - [ not "Taggots of Furze" ] On 7 May 2012 11:48, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > [ Note added 2012 by Michael Purcell - many documents in the Pat Purcell > Papers dating from this period describe "Informations / Examinations " of > people intimidated by groups blowing or sounding horns and shouting "Huzza, > Huzza" outside their homes. The term "Pointer" was used to describe an > Informer ] > Pat Purcell Papers. > 1810. > The Information of John Motley of Leighlinbridge in County Carlow, Dealer. > Taken before me [ ? ] Steurt, Esquire, one of his Majesties Justices of > the Peace for Carlow. > John Motley who being duly Sworn and Examined Saith that on the 23rd day > of April 1810 Between the hours of Eight and nine of the Clock in the > afternoon a number of persons Assembled in the Street opposite his Door in > the Town of Leighlin Bridge and by the sounding of a Horn and forming a > Riotous and Dangerous Mob. > That after passing by John Motley's Door several times they began to > Huzza, Huzza and called out for the Pointer at the same time carrying > Effigy dressed as John Motley. > That after carrying same through the street up and down, Mathew Farrell > and Judith Farrell his wife, John Dargan, Randel Neal, William Bermingham, > Sarah Keating, Francis Dwyer, William Farrell and Ann Farrell his wife, > James Doyle, Peter Toole,James Toole and Patrick Flood all of Leighlin > Bridge and Richard Walsh of Tomard all in County of Carlow and other > persons unknown to John Motley came to his house and set fire to the Effigy > and Burned it at his door at the same time crying -- Huzza, Huzza, Huzza > the Pointer Motley is gone -- > That after some time the aforesaid Mathew Farrell and his party came to > Motley's door took up a Stone and threw it at the window and broke the same > and there and then set fire to several Taggots of Furze at or against the > door with intent to set fire to Motley's House in order to Consume it > together with Motley's family and Property and John Motley further Saith > that from such outrage he was obliged to quit his House both himself and > wife being in dread and fear of being Murderd by the aforesaid party ~ > (signed) John Motley. > Sworn before me this [ ? ] day of May 1810 (signed) [ ? ] Steurt. >

Hi Sharon There are no Jacksons mentioned. It is a surname I would have noticed because my 3x greatgrandfather's brother married a Jane Jackson in Lanark County Ontario and I have been reading your work in the hopes of finding out which family she came from. In checking through the tract again, the people mentioned all lived in the parish of Dunlecky and several big landlords are mentioned. Col. Bruen receives the most attention. Virtually all the information is about Catholic tenants who were being evicted. Eleanore ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 10:37:51 -0700 From: Sharon Oddie Brown <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1836 mini-census source To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Eleanor, I would be interested in seeing if there is something to be learned from this. I tried to order a copy, but didn't succeed. JACKSONs are the family that I am most focused on. It looks like an interesting find, Sharon Sharon Oddie Brown, Roberts Creek, BC, Canada. History Project: http://www.thesilverbowl.com/ On 05/05/2012 10:10 AM, [email protected] wrote: > By chance, I came across an online copy of the following item, which might > be of interest to some of us: > Title: A statement of persecutions on the part of certain Tory landlords in > the county of Carlow, refererred to in a petition of Nicholas Aylward > Vigors, Esq.: presented to the House of Commons on the 15th Feb. 1836. > Source: Hume Tracts, (1836) > Contributor(s): UCL Library Services > Stable URL: [1]http://www.jstor.org/stable/60205197

Yes sue this is fantastic. I'd imagine that it is Darby Clowry based on the famous 1908 letter: http://www.clowryfamily.com/clowry-letter-1908-part-2/ Thanks, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 08 March 2012 08:25 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] NOWLAN, CLOWNY (sic ?CLOWRY), WATTON, ROACH, DELYONS Great find Sue, that will be appreciated, I believe the name should be Darby Clowry. the nearest to Clowny surname that I have seen is a record for Langrish Clownie from Scotland selling land in Fenagh in 1650 to Samuel Watson. On 8 March 2012 03:31, Sue Clement <[email protected]> wrote: > Georgia Gazette, 12 June 1800 > > (Transcribed as published) > > Dublin, March 13. We are sorry to learn from various parts of the country > that a renewed disposition to outrage has displayed itself, connected, we > doubt not, with the report of the Brest fleet sailing. > > Government has issued two proclamations; one for the apprehension of the > persons concerned in a violent attack on the persons of James Hancen, > servant to the rev. Richard Coxe, rector to the parish Chirconlish, county > of Limerick, and who threatened him with instant death if he did not > discover where his master's tythe books and notes were, and upon promising > so to do he escaped from them; the other for the apprehension of the > persons > concerned in the following barbarous murders and outrages: John Nowlan, > (lately permanent serjeant to Sir R. Butler's corps of yeomanry) and his > wife, were shot in their bed, at their house in the country of Carlow; > Darby > Clowny [sic], of said county, farmer, who was shot dead, and his man > servant > severely wounded; John Watton and Thomas Roach, inhabitants of the county, > were also shot dead near to their houses; Owen Delyons, a man who > voluntarily made discoveries to a magistrate of many robberies in which he, > with many others, were concerned, was murdered at the house of his mother, > situate in the barony of Carberry, Kildare; and at a small distance from > the > house the mother was found murdered, the house in which they resided burned > down, and it was with difficulty his three sisters, the eldest not 12 years > of age, escaped the flames, one of whom received a bayonet wound in her > body. On the night of the 1st inst. the chapel of Newtown, county Carlow, > was set on fire by some person or persons unknown. Government have, in each > proclamation, offered a reward of 100l. for the discovery of all or any of > the persons concerned in the above murder ad outrages. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

Thanks Jerry for the information. I intend to follow this up in the upcoming weeks. Thanks, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jerry Kelly Sent: 15 March 2012 16:53 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Ballybreen 1738 Hi Trevor, I'm coming late to this so you may know all this already.  As Michael detailed at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/PPP_Doc_1807.htm , Ballybreen is in the parish of Myshall.  As you know, Myshall is mentioned in your lease from 1738.  The parish of Myshall still exists in Carlow:  http://www.myshalldrumphea.com/default.htm .  Maybe they can point out the townland of Ballybreen. Alternatively, you may be able to use the map references on http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/county_carlow_townlands3.htm to map each of the townlands and other locations listed in the 1738 lease.  That may provide a kind of triangulation for Ballybreen.  (No doubt it's there but under a new or different name.)   It will be best to start with the English names (Templepeter, Pollardstown / Pollerton).  Because those English name meant something to an English-speaking population, it's likely that they did not change as much in spelling over time as the gobbledygook used by the Ordnance Survey in place of the original Irish Gaelic names.  (If the Ordnance Survey had stuck to the Irish Gaelic names, you'd probably be done by now.)   Eventually, the records of the Ordnance Survey may provide the confirmation you need.  They still exist for Carlow in the national Ordnance Survey office and the National Archives  ( http://www.nationalarchives.ie/research/research-guides-and-articles/guide-to-the-records-of-the-ordnance-survey/ ), and also apparently in the Royal Irish Academy (  http://sources.nli.ie/Record/MS_UR_051866 ).  These last are the "letters".  These will likely be your best source because their role was to discuss each placename in each townland in each barony in each district, not just map them.  The job of the Ordnance Survey was to identify all the placenames of Ireland, map them, and give them an anglicized name according to some kind of phonetic system they developed.  As far as I know and have ever heard, the Ordnance Survey had no authority to merge or delete placenames, so I think your correspondent in the valuation office has put you astray on that point.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_Ireland Go raibh sé sin cabhrach  /  Hope that's helpful, Jerry Treibheanna Éireannacha [email protected] www.irishtribes.com --- On Wed, 2/29/12, Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> wrote: From: Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Ballybreen 1738 To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 9:44 PM Thanks Mick for that information., Still no joy with this. I send an email to the logainm.ie(placenames) website and I also visited the valuation office today regarding Ballybreen(in the barony of Forth) and I received similar responses from both sources. "There are eleven townlands that begin with "Ballyb..." in the County of Carlow though Ballybreen is not one of them.  There is a townland called Ballybreen within the parish of Templeshanbo in Co Wexford that is not far from the border with Co. Carlow which may be the place you are looking for. If the placename predates the Griffith Evaluation you'll need to go to the Genealogy Office within the National Library of Ireland and see if they can help you as the records only go back to approximately 1850." The newest reference to Ballybreen i have found is 1832 is the item below from the National Archives. Testator Surname: Dunn, William Document Type: Administration Document Status: Transcript Date of Will: 1832 Where Granted/Proved: Leighlin Diocese Executor Surname: Clowry Executor Given: Catherine Executor Address: Ballybreen, Co. Carlow Reference: IAR/1832/F/88 Volume Name: 4/237 The staff member in the valuation office seemed to suggest that at a certain point in the 1800s someone decided to try and document the townlands/placenames in Ireland and some townlands/placenames where merged with others. I'll see what the NLI have to say about it and let you all know. Thanks, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 27 February 2012 13:18 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Ballybreen 1738 * From: The Burton Papers stored in Carlow County Library. Document code *P1/0083 * Date *13 November 1738 * Description *Lease made between Mary Wall (also Dowdal), widow of Ulick Wall, Pollardstown (Pollerton), county Catherlogh (Carlow), and Anthony Allen, of same place, esquire, in respect of one-third of the following townlands: Graigue[bridge], Templepeter, Clovashoneen, Molacraheen, Banogadadda Farrasbrahane, Cappaghmore [ ] Monemore, Ballyculloon, Ballybreen, Pollardstown. Also one-third part of a moiety of Killane and Myshall. All lands are in the barony of Forth, county Carlow. Lease to run for 31 years at annual rent of £115 sterling. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

Does anyone have any idea what the Clowrys were being prosecuted for? Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 21 March 2012 18:02 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Clowry+Miron+Nowlan 1820 >From Pat Purcell Papers. 1820. John Miron resides at Corries in the Parish of Lorum, Barony of Idrone East in Carlow. Be it remembered that the above named John Miron hath this day come before me and acknowledged himself Indebted unto our Sovereign Lord King George the fourth in the Sum of twenty pounds Sterling. The condition of the foregoing recognizance is such that John Miron shall appear in Court and prosecute Patrick Clowry, Darby Clowry, Martin Clowry, Peter Clowry and Edmond Nowlan. (signed) John Miron. Taken Sworn and Acknowledged before me this 19th day of September 1820. (signed) James Magrath. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

Trevor, Here is a bit of tentative Clowry ancestry which I have recorded in my files and which may relate to the Clowrys in the 1820 PPP transcript. For the descendance of an Edward Clowry, a tentative son of John Clowry (1726-1786) and brother of Darby Clowry of Kilkey/Ballybrommell I have the following: “ Thomas Clowry of Bagenalstown is buried in Myshall with his grandfather Edward Clowry. The father of Thomas Clowry of Bagenalstown was a Jeremiah Clowry. It is believed that his parents were a Jeremiah Clowry and a Mary Kealy who had their daughter Alicia Clowry baptized in the Myshall RC church on September 15, 1833. The sponsors were a Martin and Mary Clowry. It is believed that this Jeremiah/Darby Clowry was of Kylemaglush and a son of Edward Clowry of Kylemaglush. He is also presumed to have been a nephew of the Darby Clowry of Kilkey/Ballybrommell (Ballybreen?) shot in 1800. “ In the above information you will recognize the name “Martin Clowry” which also appears in the 1820 PPP transcript of current interest (see Email below). It would therefore appear that the Clowrys identified in the 1820 transcript were from the Kylemaglush area and descendants of Edward Clowry. [RN: The John Clowry of Kylemaglush mentioned in the 1801 PPP transcript may have been a bachelor brother of Edward.] A Myshall tombstone inscription for a William Clowry of Ballaughmore may be for a brother of the Martin, Darby and Patrick Clowry mentioned in the 1820 PPP transcript. Supporting evidence for William being yet another brother is the fact that he named tow of his sons Patrick and Peter, two of the Clowry first names appearing on the 1820 PPP transcript. Following is the inscription from the Myshall RC cemetery: " In Memory of WILLIAM CLOWRY of Ballaughmore who dep'd this life Dec 24 1878 aged 81 yrs also his son PATRICK who dep'd this life Aug. 14th, 1881 aged 48 yrs and his wife MARILDA and children THOMAS, JOHN, PETER, MICHAEL, ELIZA, MARY ANNE, BRIDGET, ANNE & KATE O'NEILL & daughter BRIDGET SHAUGHNESSY died Feb'y 10th 1937, aged 42 yrs and two of her children died young Also her husband JOHN SHAUGHNESSY Ballaughmore Died 12th July 1976 aged 90 yrs “ To help you visualize locations mentioned so far please note that Ballaghmore (mentioned in tombstone transcription) is located between Kylemaglush (mentioned in 1801 PPP transcript; a John Clowry, likely the eldest brother in Darby Clowry’s family lived there in 1801) and the town of Myshall. As the crow flies the sequence of areas encountered would be: Ballybrommell/KIlkey/Raheenkillane/Killane area >> Kylemaglush area >> Ballaghmore area >> Myshall town Bye for now, Roger P.S. Most of the above is conjecture but perhaps you can find corroborating evidence. -----Original Message----- From: Trevor Clowry Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 9:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] Clowry+Miron+Nowlan 1820 Does anyone have any idea what the Clowrys were being prosecuted for? Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 21 March 2012 18:02 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Clowry+Miron+Nowlan 1820 >From Pat Purcell Papers. 1820. John Miron resides at Corries in the Parish of Lorum, Barony of Idrone East in Carlow. Be it remembered that the above named John Miron hath this day come before me and acknowledged himself Indebted unto our Sovereign Lord King George the fourth in the Sum of twenty pounds Sterling. The condition of the foregoing recognizance is such that John Miron shall appear in Court and prosecute Patrick Clowry, Darby Clowry, Martin Clowry, Peter Clowry and Edmond Nowlan. (signed) John Miron. Taken Sworn and Acknowledged before me this 19th day of September 1820. (signed) James Magrath. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Anna, Someone once mentioned to me that the name Clowry came up on the Ardal O Hanlon "who do you think you are" programme but I could be wrong. Here's the programme: http://www.rte.ie/tv/whodoyouthinkyouare/s1/outline_ardal-ohanlon.html I will try and watch it next time it is on. Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 07 May 2012 12:27 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, Cornwall. these colliers are related to the comedian ardel o'hanlon on his mother's side and a lot of information is on his "who do you think you are?" programme. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael purcell" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 7 May, 2012 12:11:05 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, Cornwall. Clowry and Crowe are signing as bondsmen to guarantee that Margaret Neale will appear in Court and prosecute Robert Collier in open court. This method was used to make sure people did not make false charges against another and having made charges that they would appear in court to press the charges. In this case it would appear that Robert Collier was not convicted. On 7 May 2012 11:51, Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > Does anyone know why Patrick Clowry was mentioned in this article? > Trevor > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > Sent: 06 May 2012 18:25 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > Cornwall. > > Correction Sue, it appears that Patrick Fenelon Collier emigrated with his > parents, Robert and Catherine Collier to New York in 1866 not 1874 as I > stated . I missed a page in Pat's notes on the Collier family. > > On 6 May 2012 16:44, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes Sue the same Collier family. > > Abel Collier was grandfather to Patrick Fenelon Collier, Robert who was > > charged with Rape in 1827 was his father. > > It would appear that the claim made by Margaret Neale on her > "Information" > > sheet did not succeed in Court. > > From notes in the PPP :- > > Patrick Fenelon Collier married Catherine Dunne in 1873, a niece of > Bishop > > Comerford, he left Myshall for the United States in 1874, in 1880 founded > > his own printing firm in New York, within a few years it had the capacity > > to produce 25,000 books a day, at one stage his firm employed 800 people > > with nearly 100 branches throughout the United States. > > In later years Patrick was a regular visitor to Ireland, he rented out > > Killeen Castle and rode to the hounds with the Royal Meath Hunt. > > During his life Patrick presented 1,000 books to the Carlow Young Mens' > > Society and 1,000 books to Leighlinbridge Library. For many years the > > Collier Cup was presented by the Carlow Agricultural Society. > > Patrick died in April 1909, at the time of his death his firm had sold > > over 50,000,000 books, the Collier Publishing Company was later > > incorporated to Macmillan & Co. > > > > > > > > On 6 May 2012 14:53, Sue Clement <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Very interesting. I wish we had the outcome of the case. I think this > >> could > >> possibly be the Robert Collier who was father of Peter Fenlon Collier, > b. > >> Myshall 1849, d. New York City 1909. PF Collier was the publisher of > >> Collier's Weekly magazine in New York. He was first cousin to John > Fenlon > >> who married into my Aughney relatives. Robert Collier of Myshall married > >> Catherine Fenlon, and I have record of two children - Anne bap Myshall > >> parish 1849, and Peter. Robert Collier of Myshall gave a recognizance > bond > >> for Mary Tracey of Rathnegeerath, February 1836 (from the PPP). > >> > >> Sue > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 5:01 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > >> Cornwall. > >> > >> [ Note added 2012 - unusual submission from the PPP in that we have the > >> Information statement , Recognizance to Prosecute sheet and Recognizance > >> of > >> £20 guaranteeing that Margaret Neale shall appear in Open Court to press > >> charges against Robert Collier. > >> A very serious charge against Robert as at this time Rape was punishable > >> by > >> death or transportation. > >> The only thing missing is the verdict. ] Pat Purcell Papers. > >> 1827. > >> The Information of Margaret Neale of Myshall, Carlow, Spinster, taken > >> before > >> me one of His Majestys Justices of the Peace for Carlow. > >> Margaret Neale who being duly sworn on the Holy Evaneglists Saith that > on > >> Sunday Evening the 7th of January 1827 she went into the House of Abel > >> Collier of Myshall, Publican, where she had some tea and punch in > Company > >> with Robert Collier son of Abel Collier and two of Abel Collier's > >> Daughters > >> that having remained in the house till late - that on her return home, > she > >> was afraid her Father would chastise her for being out and thinking that > >> he > >> was about to do so she ran out of the house. > >> That on Crossing a Field opposite to her house she was overtaken by the > >> aforesaid Robert Collier who on hearing from her that she was afraid of > >> her > >> Father, offered to accompany her to the house of Owen Gorman of Aclare, > >> Carlow, who is married to a Relative of Margaret Neale. > >> That she put herself under the protection of Robert Collier who > >> accompanied > >> her part of the way, that on the Land of Myshall aforementioned he threw > >> her > >> down and by force and against her will had Carnal Knowledge of her and > >> committed a Rape on her Body. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> Having first being truly read over to Margaret Neale before signing.. > >> Sworn before me this 19th day of January 1827. (signed) John F. > Cornwall. > >> Margaret Neale do swear that I usually reside at Myshall, Parish of > >> Myshall, > >> Barony of Forth and County of Carlow and am Supported and maintained by > my > >> Parents. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> The said Margaret Neale acknowledges herself to be indebted to our > >> Sovereign > >> Lord the King in the Sum of Twenty pounds Sterling. > >> The Condition of the foregoing recognisance is that the above bound > >> Margaret > >> Neale shall be and appear at the next Assizes to be held at Carlow and > >> prosecute Robert Collier of Myshall for a Rape, and not depart the Court > >> without a Licence, then the above Recognizance to be null and void > >> otherwise > >> to be in full Force and Virtue in Law. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me this 20th day of January 1827, having > >> first > >> being truly read over to Margaret Neale. (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> I James Crow swear that I am a Householder, and have a House wherein I > >> usually reside at Rahenkillane [ ? ] in the Parish of Bendenstown [ ? ] > >> in > >> the Barony of Half Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of Ten > >> Pounds > >> Sterling over and above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) James > >> Crowe. > >> I Patrick Clowry do swear that I am a Householder and have a House > >> wherein I > >> usually reside at Ballintrain in the Parish of Templepeter Barony or > Half > >> Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of 10 Pounds Sterling over > and > >> above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) Patt Clowry. > >> The Condition of the Foregoing Recognizance is such that Margaret Neale > >> shall appear in her Proper Person in Open Court and prosecute Robert > >> Collier > >> of Myshall for a Rape. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me at Myshall Lodge the day and Year > >> aforesaid, (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Anna! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

these colliers are related to the comedian ardel o'hanlon on his mother's side and a lot of information is on his "who do you think you are?" programme. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael purcell" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, 7 May, 2012 12:11:05 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, Cornwall. Clowry and Crowe are signing as bondsmen to guarantee that Margaret Neale will appear in Court and prosecute Robert Collier in open court. This method was used to make sure people did not make false charges against another and having made charges that they would appear in court to press the charges. In this case it would appear that Robert Collier was not convicted. On 7 May 2012 11:51, Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > Does anyone know why Patrick Clowry was mentioned in this article? > Trevor > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > Sent: 06 May 2012 18:25 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > Cornwall. > > Correction Sue, it appears that Patrick Fenelon Collier emigrated with his > parents, Robert and Catherine Collier to New York in 1866 not 1874 as I > stated . I missed a page in Pat's notes on the Collier family. > > On 6 May 2012 16:44, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes Sue the same Collier family. > > Abel Collier was grandfather to Patrick Fenelon Collier, Robert who was > > charged with Rape in 1827 was his father. > > It would appear that the claim made by Margaret Neale on her > "Information" > > sheet did not succeed in Court. > > From notes in the PPP :- > > Patrick Fenelon Collier married Catherine Dunne in 1873, a niece of > Bishop > > Comerford, he left Myshall for the United States in 1874, in 1880 founded > > his own printing firm in New York, within a few years it had the capacity > > to produce 25,000 books a day, at one stage his firm employed 800 people > > with nearly 100 branches throughout the United States. > > In later years Patrick was a regular visitor to Ireland, he rented out > > Killeen Castle and rode to the hounds with the Royal Meath Hunt. > > During his life Patrick presented 1,000 books to the Carlow Young Mens' > > Society and 1,000 books to Leighlinbridge Library. For many years the > > Collier Cup was presented by the Carlow Agricultural Society. > > Patrick died in April 1909, at the time of his death his firm had sold > > over 50,000,000 books, the Collier Publishing Company was later > > incorporated to Macmillan & Co. > > > > > > > > On 6 May 2012 14:53, Sue Clement <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Very interesting. I wish we had the outcome of the case. I think this > >> could > >> possibly be the Robert Collier who was father of Peter Fenlon Collier, > b. > >> Myshall 1849, d. New York City 1909. PF Collier was the publisher of > >> Collier's Weekly magazine in New York. He was first cousin to John > Fenlon > >> who married into my Aughney relatives. Robert Collier of Myshall married > >> Catherine Fenlon, and I have record of two children - Anne bap Myshall > >> parish 1849, and Peter. Robert Collier of Myshall gave a recognizance > bond > >> for Mary Tracey of Rathnegeerath, February 1836 (from the PPP). > >> > >> Sue > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 5:01 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > >> Cornwall. > >> > >> [ Note added 2012 - unusual submission from the PPP in that we have the > >> Information statement , Recognizance to Prosecute sheet and Recognizance > >> of > >> £20 guaranteeing that Margaret Neale shall appear in Open Court to press > >> charges against Robert Collier. > >> A very serious charge against Robert as at this time Rape was punishable > >> by > >> death or transportation. > >> The only thing missing is the verdict. ] Pat Purcell Papers. > >> 1827. > >> The Information of Margaret Neale of Myshall, Carlow, Spinster, taken > >> before > >> me one of His Majestys Justices of the Peace for Carlow. > >> Margaret Neale who being duly sworn on the Holy Evaneglists Saith that > on > >> Sunday Evening the 7th of January 1827 she went into the House of Abel > >> Collier of Myshall, Publican, where she had some tea and punch in > Company > >> with Robert Collier son of Abel Collier and two of Abel Collier's > >> Daughters > >> that having remained in the house till late - that on her return home, > she > >> was afraid her Father would chastise her for being out and thinking that > >> he > >> was about to do so she ran out of the house. > >> That on Crossing a Field opposite to her house she was overtaken by the > >> aforesaid Robert Collier who on hearing from her that she was afraid of > >> her > >> Father, offered to accompany her to the house of Owen Gorman of Aclare, > >> Carlow, who is married to a Relative of Margaret Neale. > >> That she put herself under the protection of Robert Collier who > >> accompanied > >> her part of the way, that on the Land of Myshall aforementioned he threw > >> her > >> down and by force and against her will had Carnal Knowledge of her and > >> committed a Rape on her Body. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> Having first being truly read over to Margaret Neale before signing.. > >> Sworn before me this 19th day of January 1827. (signed) John F. > Cornwall. > >> Margaret Neale do swear that I usually reside at Myshall, Parish of > >> Myshall, > >> Barony of Forth and County of Carlow and am Supported and maintained by > my > >> Parents. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> The said Margaret Neale acknowledges herself to be indebted to our > >> Sovereign > >> Lord the King in the Sum of Twenty pounds Sterling. > >> The Condition of the foregoing recognisance is that the above bound > >> Margaret > >> Neale shall be and appear at the next Assizes to be held at Carlow and > >> prosecute Robert Collier of Myshall for a Rape, and not depart the Court > >> without a Licence, then the above Recognizance to be null and void > >> otherwise > >> to be in full Force and Virtue in Law. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me this 20th day of January 1827, having > >> first > >> being truly read over to Margaret Neale. (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> I James Crow swear that I am a Householder, and have a House wherein I > >> usually reside at Rahenkillane [ ? ] in the Parish of Bendenstown [ ? ] > >> in > >> the Barony of Half Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of Ten > >> Pounds > >> Sterling over and above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) James > >> Crowe. > >> I Patrick Clowry do swear that I am a Householder and have a House > >> wherein I > >> usually reside at Ballintrain in the Parish of Templepeter Barony or > Half > >> Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of 10 Pounds Sterling over > and > >> above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) Patt Clowry. > >> The Condition of the Foregoing Recognizance is such that Margaret Neale > >> shall appear in her Proper Person in Open Court and prosecute Robert > >> Collier > >> of Myshall for a Rape. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me at Myshall Lodge the day and Year > >> aforesaid, (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Anna!

Trevor, I believe that George Clowry of Pollerton may have been a brother of Jeremiah "Darby" Clowry (shot by “Rebels” in 1800) who lived in the Kilkey/Ballybrommell arheea in 1798. The "James Nowlan of Ballon, farmer" [RN: of Kilkey/Killane are] also mentioned in the transcript may have been my ancestor who married the widow of "James Clowry", Mary Shortall, in 1793 in the Ballon church and lived in the Kilkey/Killane area in the 1790s. The way I see it my James, being married to a Clowry widow, may have assumed the custodianship of the deceased James Clowry’s farm, and may have had Clowry stepsons, possibly one also named Darby. In the circumstances described, my ancestor James Nowlan would therefore have been a candidate to approach for a surety for a "step"-nephew of Pollerton. The John Clowry of Kylemaglush also mentioned in the sureties may have been yet another brother of Darby Clowry. In any case, if anything else, the transcript serves to make a link between Pollerton (where George Clowry and sons lived) and the Kilkey/Killane area where Darby Clowry lived, providing supporting evidence that George and Darby Clowry were related, most likely as brothers. A more remote possibility for James Nowlan of Ballon, farmer, would be James Nowlan of Tinnaclash who is known to have been leasing farm land in the Bendinstown area, just north of the Kilknock townland, in 1785. Bye for now, Roger http://nolanfamilies.org P.S. A another potential connection with the Kilkey/Ballybrommell area (near Killane and Raheenkillane which are townlands on the other side of the river Burren) is the profession of George Clowry of Pollerton, namely “Tanner and Dealer in Leather”. Recall that, in March 1800, when Farmer Clowry was shot the family and their dairy barn burnt the family had a large herd of cows. Could the cowhides used by George Clowry have come from Darby Clowry’s farm? Already before the fire? After the fire? A conjecture, hard if not impossible to prove, would be that, as a result of the barn fire in Ballybrommell in March 1800 the dairy herd had to be culled providing ample material (cowhides) for George Clowry to be a “Tanner and Dealer in Leather” in Pollerton in 1801. -----Original Message----- From: Trevor Clowry Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 7:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1801, Clowry+Nowlan+Ryan. Fantastic article. Again, thanks for these wonderful articles. I am getting through a backlog of emails since late March, so apologies if I am responding late. I have never seen a George Clowry mentioned to date and will try and find more about him. I hope to try and link up all of the Clowry PPP documents soon and will give a file to Michael Brennan to put onto the website. Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow Sent: 23 April 2012 18:06 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1801, Clowry+Nowlan+Ryan. James Clowry maketh oath that he usually resides at Pollerton in the Town of Carlow and County of Carlow.(signed) James, hisXmark, Clowry. John Clowry maketh oath that he is a Householder and usually resides in Kilmaglush, Parish of Kilmaglush and County of Carlow and that he supports himself by Farming and that he is worth the sum of five pounds above his Debts.(signed) John Clowry James Nowlan of Ballon, in the Parish of Ballon maketh oath that he supports himself by farming and that he is worth the sum of five pounds above his Debts. (signed) James Nowlan. George Clowry maketh oath that he is a householder and usually resides in Pollerton, Town of Carlow, Parish of Carlow and that he supports himself as a Tanner and Dealer in Leather and that he is worth the sum of five pounds above his debts.(signed) George, hisXmark, Clowry. Be it remembered that the above named James Clowry, John Clowry, James Nowlan and George Clowry came before me One of his Majestys Justices of the Peace and acknowledged themselves to be indebted to our Sovereign Lord the King in the Sums of 15 pounds Sterling and to which their names are respectively annexed. The condition of the Recognizance is such that the aforesaid James Clowry shall and will keep the Peace towards all his Majestys Subject and particulary towards Mary Ryan of the Barrack Street, Carlow Town, Spinster, for and during the term twenty five years from the Date hereof, otherwise to stand and remain in full force and virtue in Law. Taken and Acknowledged before me this eighth day of June 1801, (signed) Charles Burton. To be kept among the Records of the County aforesaid. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Mick. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 07 May 2012 12:11 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, Cornwall. Clowry and Crowe are signing as bondsmen to guarantee that Margaret Neale will appear in Court and prosecute Robert Collier in open court. This method was used to make sure people did not make false charges against another and having made charges that they would appear in court to press the charges. In this case it would appear that Robert Collier was not convicted. On 7 May 2012 11:51, Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > Does anyone know why Patrick Clowry was mentioned in this article? > Trevor > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > Sent: 06 May 2012 18:25 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > Cornwall. > > Correction Sue, it appears that Patrick Fenelon Collier emigrated with his > parents, Robert and Catherine Collier to New York in 1866 not 1874 as I > stated . I missed a page in Pat's notes on the Collier family. > > On 6 May 2012 16:44, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes Sue the same Collier family. > > Abel Collier was grandfather to Patrick Fenelon Collier, Robert who was > > charged with Rape in 1827 was his father. > > It would appear that the claim made by Margaret Neale on her > "Information" > > sheet did not succeed in Court. > > From notes in the PPP :- > > Patrick Fenelon Collier married Catherine Dunne in 1873, a niece of > Bishop > > Comerford, he left Myshall for the United States in 1874, in 1880 founded > > his own printing firm in New York, within a few years it had the capacity > > to produce 25,000 books a day, at one stage his firm employed 800 people > > with nearly 100 branches throughout the United States. > > In later years Patrick was a regular visitor to Ireland, he rented out > > Killeen Castle and rode to the hounds with the Royal Meath Hunt. > > During his life Patrick presented 1,000 books to the Carlow Young Mens' > > Society and 1,000 books to Leighlinbridge Library. For many years the > > Collier Cup was presented by the Carlow Agricultural Society. > > Patrick died in April 1909, at the time of his death his firm had sold > > over 50,000,000 books, the Collier Publishing Company was later > > incorporated to Macmillan & Co. > > > > > > > > On 6 May 2012 14:53, Sue Clement <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Very interesting. I wish we had the outcome of the case. I think this > >> could > >> possibly be the Robert Collier who was father of Peter Fenlon Collier, > b. > >> Myshall 1849, d. New York City 1909. PF Collier was the publisher of > >> Collier's Weekly magazine in New York. He was first cousin to John > Fenlon > >> who married into my Aughney relatives. Robert Collier of Myshall married > >> Catherine Fenlon, and I have record of two children - Anne bap Myshall > >> parish 1849, and Peter. Robert Collier of Myshall gave a recognizance > bond > >> for Mary Tracey of Rathnegeerath, February 1836 (from the PPP). > >> > >> Sue > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 5:01 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > >> Cornwall. > >> > >> [ Note added 2012 - unusual submission from the PPP in that we have the > >> Information statement , Recognizance to Prosecute sheet and Recognizance > >> of > >> £20 guaranteeing that Margaret Neale shall appear in Open Court to press > >> charges against Robert Collier. > >> A very serious charge against Robert as at this time Rape was punishable > >> by > >> death or transportation. > >> The only thing missing is the verdict. ] Pat Purcell Papers. > >> 1827. > >> The Information of Margaret Neale of Myshall, Carlow, Spinster, taken > >> before > >> me one of His Majestys Justices of the Peace for Carlow. > >> Margaret Neale who being duly sworn on the Holy Evaneglists Saith that > on > >> Sunday Evening the 7th of January 1827 she went into the House of Abel > >> Collier of Myshall, Publican, where she had some tea and punch in > Company > >> with Robert Collier son of Abel Collier and two of Abel Collier's > >> Daughters > >> that having remained in the house till late - that on her return home, > she > >> was afraid her Father would chastise her for being out and thinking that > >> he > >> was about to do so she ran out of the house. > >> That on Crossing a Field opposite to her house she was overtaken by the > >> aforesaid Robert Collier who on hearing from her that she was afraid of > >> her > >> Father, offered to accompany her to the house of Owen Gorman of Aclare, > >> Carlow, who is married to a Relative of Margaret Neale. > >> That she put herself under the protection of Robert Collier who > >> accompanied > >> her part of the way, that on the Land of Myshall aforementioned he threw > >> her > >> down and by force and against her will had Carnal Knowledge of her and > >> committed a Rape on her Body. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> Having first being truly read over to Margaret Neale before signing.. > >> Sworn before me this 19th day of January 1827. (signed) John F. > Cornwall. > >> Margaret Neale do swear that I usually reside at Myshall, Parish of > >> Myshall, > >> Barony of Forth and County of Carlow and am Supported and maintained by > my > >> Parents. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> The said Margaret Neale acknowledges herself to be indebted to our > >> Sovereign > >> Lord the King in the Sum of Twenty pounds Sterling. > >> The Condition of the foregoing recognisance is that the above bound > >> Margaret > >> Neale shall be and appear at the next Assizes to be held at Carlow and > >> prosecute Robert Collier of Myshall for a Rape, and not depart the Court > >> without a Licence, then the above Recognizance to be null and void > >> otherwise > >> to be in full Force and Virtue in Law. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me this 20th day of January 1827, having > >> first > >> being truly read over to Margaret Neale. (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> I James Crow swear that I am a Householder, and have a House wherein I > >> usually reside at Rahenkillane [ ? ] in the Parish of Bendenstown [ ? ] > >> in > >> the Barony of Half Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of Ten > >> Pounds > >> Sterling over and above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) James > >> Crowe. > >> I Patrick Clowry do swear that I am a Householder and have a House > >> wherein I > >> usually reside at Ballintrain in the Parish of Templepeter Barony or > Half > >> Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of 10 Pounds Sterling over > and > >> above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) Patt Clowry. > >> The Condition of the Foregoing Recognizance is such that Margaret Neale > >> shall appear in her Proper Person in Open Court and prosecute Robert > >> Collier > >> of Myshall for a Rape. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me at Myshall Lodge the day and Year > >> aforesaid, (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

To any Quinns that are interested. Here is the marriage certificate mentioned below: http://photos.geni.com/p10/3065/6457/5344483808b3e5da/1866_m_eliza_origi nal.jpg Thanks, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 22 April 2012 14:00 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Quinn+Clowry+Saunders+Harrington. Pat Purcell Papers. extract from Register Carlow Cathedral. Quinn. Thomas, Tullow St. died 11th Sept. 1937, aged 81. William, Tullow St. died, March 1909. aged 21. Farmer. Rose, Tullow St. died 30th Oct. 1927. Pat, Tullow St. died August 1913, aged 21, Clerk. David married Eliz. Harrington, 1872. they lived in Burrin St and College St. James married Eliza Clowry, daughter of Jeramiah Clowry from Staplestown Road, 1866. Margaret, Bap. 1794. Michael married Magaret Saunders 1777. John, Bap. 1845, Staplestown Rd. Mother, Mary Kearns. Father Pat Quinn. Alice, Bap. 1788. MNN. Eliz. Smith. William from Arles married Anne McCabe, Pollerton Road, in 1869 There are many more Quinns recorded in Cathedral register, the extracts above are from a page in the PPP. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

Clowry and Crowe are signing as bondsmen to guarantee that Margaret Neale will appear in Court and prosecute Robert Collier in open court. This method was used to make sure people did not make false charges against another and having made charges that they would appear in court to press the charges. In this case it would appear that Robert Collier was not convicted. On 7 May 2012 11:51, Trevor Clowry <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > Does anyone know why Patrick Clowry was mentioned in this article? > Trevor > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > Sent: 06 May 2012 18:25 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > Cornwall. > > Correction Sue, it appears that Patrick Fenelon Collier emigrated with his > parents, Robert and Catherine Collier to New York in 1866 not 1874 as I > stated . I missed a page in Pat's notes on the Collier family. > > On 6 May 2012 16:44, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes Sue the same Collier family. > > Abel Collier was grandfather to Patrick Fenelon Collier, Robert who was > > charged with Rape in 1827 was his father. > > It would appear that the claim made by Margaret Neale on her > "Information" > > sheet did not succeed in Court. > > From notes in the PPP :- > > Patrick Fenelon Collier married Catherine Dunne in 1873, a niece of > Bishop > > Comerford, he left Myshall for the United States in 1874, in 1880 founded > > his own printing firm in New York, within a few years it had the capacity > > to produce 25,000 books a day, at one stage his firm employed 800 people > > with nearly 100 branches throughout the United States. > > In later years Patrick was a regular visitor to Ireland, he rented out > > Killeen Castle and rode to the hounds with the Royal Meath Hunt. > > During his life Patrick presented 1,000 books to the Carlow Young Mens' > > Society and 1,000 books to Leighlinbridge Library. For many years the > > Collier Cup was presented by the Carlow Agricultural Society. > > Patrick died in April 1909, at the time of his death his firm had sold > > over 50,000,000 books, the Collier Publishing Company was later > > incorporated to Macmillan & Co. > > > > > > > > On 6 May 2012 14:53, Sue Clement <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Very interesting. I wish we had the outcome of the case. I think this > >> could > >> possibly be the Robert Collier who was father of Peter Fenlon Collier, > b. > >> Myshall 1849, d. New York City 1909. PF Collier was the publisher of > >> Collier's Weekly magazine in New York. He was first cousin to John > Fenlon > >> who married into my Aughney relatives. Robert Collier of Myshall married > >> Catherine Fenlon, and I have record of two children - Anne bap Myshall > >> parish 1849, and Peter. Robert Collier of Myshall gave a recognizance > bond > >> for Mary Tracey of Rathnegeerath, February 1836 (from the PPP). > >> > >> Sue > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell > >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 5:01 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, > >> Cornwall. > >> > >> [ Note added 2012 - unusual submission from the PPP in that we have the > >> Information statement , Recognizance to Prosecute sheet and Recognizance > >> of > >> £20 guaranteeing that Margaret Neale shall appear in Open Court to press > >> charges against Robert Collier. > >> A very serious charge against Robert as at this time Rape was punishable > >> by > >> death or transportation. > >> The only thing missing is the verdict. ] Pat Purcell Papers. > >> 1827. > >> The Information of Margaret Neale of Myshall, Carlow, Spinster, taken > >> before > >> me one of His Majestys Justices of the Peace for Carlow. > >> Margaret Neale who being duly sworn on the Holy Evaneglists Saith that > on > >> Sunday Evening the 7th of January 1827 she went into the House of Abel > >> Collier of Myshall, Publican, where she had some tea and punch in > Company > >> with Robert Collier son of Abel Collier and two of Abel Collier's > >> Daughters > >> that having remained in the house till late - that on her return home, > she > >> was afraid her Father would chastise her for being out and thinking that > >> he > >> was about to do so she ran out of the house. > >> That on Crossing a Field opposite to her house she was overtaken by the > >> aforesaid Robert Collier who on hearing from her that she was afraid of > >> her > >> Father, offered to accompany her to the house of Owen Gorman of Aclare, > >> Carlow, who is married to a Relative of Margaret Neale. > >> That she put herself under the protection of Robert Collier who > >> accompanied > >> her part of the way, that on the Land of Myshall aforementioned he threw > >> her > >> down and by force and against her will had Carnal Knowledge of her and > >> committed a Rape on her Body. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> Having first being truly read over to Margaret Neale before signing.. > >> Sworn before me this 19th day of January 1827. (signed) John F. > Cornwall. > >> Margaret Neale do swear that I usually reside at Myshall, Parish of > >> Myshall, > >> Barony of Forth and County of Carlow and am Supported and maintained by > my > >> Parents. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. > >> The said Margaret Neale acknowledges herself to be indebted to our > >> Sovereign > >> Lord the King in the Sum of Twenty pounds Sterling. > >> The Condition of the foregoing recognisance is that the above bound > >> Margaret > >> Neale shall be and appear at the next Assizes to be held at Carlow and > >> prosecute Robert Collier of Myshall for a Rape, and not depart the Court > >> without a Licence, then the above Recognizance to be null and void > >> otherwise > >> to be in full Force and Virtue in Law. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me this 20th day of January 1827, having > >> first > >> being truly read over to Margaret Neale. (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> I James Crow swear that I am a Householder, and have a House wherein I > >> usually reside at Rahenkillane [ ? ] in the Parish of Bendenstown [ ? ] > >> in > >> the Barony of Half Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of Ten > >> Pounds > >> Sterling over and above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) James > >> Crowe. > >> I Patrick Clowry do swear that I am a Householder and have a House > >> wherein I > >> usually reside at Ballintrain in the Parish of Templepeter Barony or > Half > >> Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of 10 Pounds Sterling over > and > >> above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) Patt Clowry. > >> The Condition of the Foregoing Recognizance is such that Margaret Neale > >> shall appear in her Proper Person in Open Court and prosecute Robert > >> Collier > >> of Myshall for a Rape. > >> Taken and Acknowledged before me at Myshall Lodge the day and Year > >> aforesaid, (signed) John F. Cornwall. > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mick, This article has made my day! These are the earliest articles I have seen of Clowrys living in Carlow Town. I shall be more careful in who I ask for in my hand in marriage. And the residents of Tullow Street can take my word that I won't go kicking coal around the streets! Thanks for sharing, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 21 April 2012 10:25 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1801 Ryan+Clowry+Curran+Hayden+Saunders+Bigley+Burton. Pat Purcell Papers. 1801. The Examination of Mary Ryan of the Barrack Street in Town of Carlow taken before Sir Charles Burton, Bart, having being first duly Sworn on the Holy Evangelists Saith that on the 2nd day of January 1801 she was walking down Tullow Street in the Town of Carlow about her lawful doings when James Clowry, Leather Dealer ,of Pollerton stood in her path and without any provocation called her a robber and proclaimed that her father Michael Ryan, Huxter, of Barrack Street was also a robber, James Clowry demanded of Mary Ryan in a most menacing manner that the Twenty Guineas paid to Michael Ryan for the hand in marriage of the said Mary Ryan should be returned to him forthwith saying that he would not have a common Whore of Scandalous reputation for the mother of his children, James Clowry continued such provocative Language forcing Mary Ryan to seek protection in the cellar of Margaret Curran, Bonnet Maker, at Tullow Street. James Clowry remained on the publick road loudly proclaiming in the most dreadful and abusive language directed at Mary Ryan so that all assembled in the street could hear.The aforesaid Margaret Curran with the aid of a grate pincher flung a hot coal in his direction to compel him to withdraw James Clowry kicked the coal through the window breaking the glass and could if he had his evil desire have the House of Patrick Saunders, Tullow Street. consumed by fire, saying he would consume the house with fire and rid the Town of the two Whores within. Mary Ryan was forced to climb out through a low window and seek protection in the house of big Daniel Hayden, Smith, Bridewell Lane, having tore her Petticoat and lost her shoe in the escape, from where in the dark of night she was escorted by Daniel Hayden son of big Dan and Bridget Bigley to her fathers house in Barrack Street and further Saith that she (Mary Ryan) is now afraid of been confronted in the Publick Streets or on the Kings Highway by James Clowry intent on accomplishing his evil design on her and she is prevented from going about her Lawful doings in the Town of Carlow and further Saith that she had no knowledge of her father having made a marriage settlement on her with the aforesaid James Clowry and would have no objection to such an arrangement if she had and Mary Ryan further Saith that she has no knowledge of the purpose of James Clowry in calling her a Whore and further Saith naught. Mary Ryan now in her eighteenth year craves for the Protection of the Magistrates. (signed) Mary, herXmark, Ryan, having first being read to her by Michael Whitmore, . Sworn before me this 6th day of June, 1801. Charles Burton. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

Fantastic article. Again, thanks for these wonderful articles. I am getting through a backlog of emails since late March, so apologies if I am responding late. I have never seen a George Clowry mentioned to date and will try and find more about him. I hope to try and link up all of the Clowry PPP documents soon and will give a file to Michael Brennan to put onto the website. Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow Sent: 23 April 2012 18:06 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1801, Clowry+Nowlan+Ryan. James Clowry maketh oath that he usually resides at Pollerton in the Town of Carlow and County of Carlow.(signed) James, hisXmark, Clowry. John Clowry maketh oath that he is a Householder and usually resides in Kilmaglush, Parish of Kilmaglush and County of Carlow and that he supports himself by Farming and that he is worth the sum of five pounds above his Debts.(signed) John Clowry James Nowlan of Ballon, in the Parish of Ballon maketh oath that he supports himself by farming and that he is worth the sum of five pounds above his Debts. (signed) James Nowlan. George Clowry maketh oath that he is a householder and usually resides in Pollerton, Town of Carlow, Parish of Carlow and that he supports himself as a Tanner and Dealer in Leather and that he is worth the sum of five pounds above his debts.(signed) George, hisXmark, Clowry. Be it remembered that the above named James Clowry, John Clowry, James Nowlan and George Clowry came before me One of his Majestys Justices of the Peace and acknowledged themselves to be indebted to our Sovereign Lord the King in the Sums of 15 pounds Sterling and to which their names are respectively annexed. The condition of the Recognizance is such that the aforesaid James Clowry shall and will keep the Peace towards all his Majestys Subject and particulary towards Mary Ryan of the Barrack Street, Carlow Town, Spinster, for and during the term twenty five years from the Date hereof, otherwise to stand and remain in full force and virtue in Law. Taken and Acknowledged before me this eighth day of June 1801, (signed) Charles Burton. To be kept among the Records of the County aforesaid. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

Mick, Michael and the Friends of Carlow, Thanks very much for all the hard work put into transcribing these documents. Researchers worldwide will find these transcriptions as an asset for years to come. Thanks, Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Friend of Carlow Sent: 30 April 2012 18:34 To: [email protected] Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] Pat Purcell Papers. We have now catalogued the Pat Purcell Papers and have moved the archive to secure storage., Over the years since Pat's death the collection was moved many times, we found it to be in total disorder and whatever format Pat originally had assembled the collection in was long since broken up and had been rearranged many times, with no evidence of organization or function. It was impossible to catalogue on the principle of original order. We have done our best to establish a chronological record inventory arranged by year or if the content overlapped into other years we have attempted to file under subject. There were many gaps as some of the PPP is in other hands having been removed from the main collection. Unfortunately with so little time we were unable to compile an index of surnames. Within the PPP were various collections such as the Brophy Papers (52 items), Marlborough Clake-Douglas Papers (15 items), Toler-Aylward Papers, (324 items ) Vigor Papers ( 430 items), Bunbury Papers (524 items), Beresford Papers ( 189 items), Browne-Clayton Papers (1,750 items, mainly photocopies compiled in recent times with main original collection donated to Carlow County Library), Letters (792 items), Genealogical enquiries (220 dating from 1920s) Irish Republican Brotherhood Papers (129 items), Irish Republican Army records (109 items ), Cumann na mBan records (87 items),War of Independence Records (523 items), Civil War Records (512 items), Political Papers (2,010 items), Photos (128 items), Family (327 items), Legal Papers, Deeds etc. (1,645 items), Duggan Papers (272 items) Religious (413 items), Newspapers (312 items), bound books plus the main collection of the PPP. The hope is that they will remain in storage until such a time as a Archive Centre is established for Carlow. In the meantime we have many photocopies of items which we hope to share as time permits with Carlow IGP in the future. I know that Mick Purcell will be offline until Christmas as he will be in Berlin carrying out research. As we will be operating voluntary from our home computers we can only correspond through the IGP List. We are unable to respond to individual emails. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

Hi all, Does anyone know why Patrick Clowry was mentioned in this article? Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell Sent: 06 May 2012 18:25 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, Cornwall. Correction Sue, it appears that Patrick Fenelon Collier emigrated with his parents, Robert and Catherine Collier to New York in 1866 not 1874 as I stated . I missed a page in Pat's notes on the Collier family. On 6 May 2012 16:44, michael purcell <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes Sue the same Collier family. > Abel Collier was grandfather to Patrick Fenelon Collier, Robert who was > charged with Rape in 1827 was his father. > It would appear that the claim made by Margaret Neale on her "Information" > sheet did not succeed in Court. > From notes in the PPP :- > Patrick Fenelon Collier married Catherine Dunne in 1873, a niece of Bishop > Comerford, he left Myshall for the United States in 1874, in 1880 founded > his own printing firm in New York, within a few years it had the capacity > to produce 25,000 books a day, at one stage his firm employed 800 people > with nearly 100 branches throughout the United States. > In later years Patrick was a regular visitor to Ireland, he rented out > Killeen Castle and rode to the hounds with the Royal Meath Hunt. > During his life Patrick presented 1,000 books to the Carlow Young Mens' > Society and 1,000 books to Leighlinbridge Library. For many years the > Collier Cup was presented by the Carlow Agricultural Society. > Patrick died in April 1909, at the time of his death his firm had sold > over 50,000,000 books, the Collier Publishing Company was later > incorporated to Macmillan & Co. > > > > On 6 May 2012 14:53, Sue Clement <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Very interesting. I wish we had the outcome of the case. I think this >> could >> possibly be the Robert Collier who was father of Peter Fenlon Collier, b. >> Myshall 1849, d. New York City 1909. PF Collier was the publisher of >> Collier's Weekly magazine in New York. He was first cousin to John Fenlon >> who married into my Aughney relatives. Robert Collier of Myshall married >> Catherine Fenlon, and I have record of two children - Anne bap Myshall >> parish 1849, and Peter. Robert Collier of Myshall gave a recognizance bond >> for Mary Tracey of Rathnegeerath, February 1836 (from the PPP). >> >> Sue >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael purcell >> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 5:01 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, >> Cornwall. >> >> [ Note added 2012 - unusual submission from the PPP in that we have the >> Information statement , Recognizance to Prosecute sheet and Recognizance >> of >> £20 guaranteeing that Margaret Neale shall appear in Open Court to press >> charges against Robert Collier. >> A very serious charge against Robert as at this time Rape was punishable >> by >> death or transportation. >> The only thing missing is the verdict. ] Pat Purcell Papers. >> 1827. >> The Information of Margaret Neale of Myshall, Carlow, Spinster, taken >> before >> me one of His Majestys Justices of the Peace for Carlow. >> Margaret Neale who being duly sworn on the Holy Evaneglists Saith that on >> Sunday Evening the 7th of January 1827 she went into the House of Abel >> Collier of Myshall, Publican, where she had some tea and punch in Company >> with Robert Collier son of Abel Collier and two of Abel Collier's >> Daughters >> that having remained in the house till late - that on her return home, she >> was afraid her Father would chastise her for being out and thinking that >> he >> was about to do so she ran out of the house. >> That on Crossing a Field opposite to her house she was overtaken by the >> aforesaid Robert Collier who on hearing from her that she was afraid of >> her >> Father, offered to accompany her to the house of Owen Gorman of Aclare, >> Carlow, who is married to a Relative of Margaret Neale. >> That she put herself under the protection of Robert Collier who >> accompanied >> her part of the way, that on the Land of Myshall aforementioned he threw >> her >> down and by force and against her will had Carnal Knowledge of her and >> committed a Rape on her Body. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. >> Having first being truly read over to Margaret Neale before signing.. >> Sworn before me this 19th day of January 1827. (signed) John F. Cornwall. >> Margaret Neale do swear that I usually reside at Myshall, Parish of >> Myshall, >> Barony of Forth and County of Carlow and am Supported and maintained by my >> Parents. (signed) Margaret, herXmark, Neale. >> The said Margaret Neale acknowledges herself to be indebted to our >> Sovereign >> Lord the King in the Sum of Twenty pounds Sterling. >> The Condition of the foregoing recognisance is that the above bound >> Margaret >> Neale shall be and appear at the next Assizes to be held at Carlow and >> prosecute Robert Collier of Myshall for a Rape, and not depart the Court >> without a Licence, then the above Recognizance to be null and void >> otherwise >> to be in full Force and Virtue in Law. >> Taken and Acknowledged before me this 20th day of January 1827, having >> first >> being truly read over to Margaret Neale. (signed) John F. Cornwall. >> I James Crow swear that I am a Householder, and have a House wherein I >> usually reside at Rahenkillane [ ? ] in the Parish of Bendenstown [ ? ] >> in >> the Barony of Half Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of Ten >> Pounds >> Sterling over and above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) James >> Crowe. >> I Patrick Clowry do swear that I am a Householder and have a House >> wherein I >> usually reside at Ballintrain in the Parish of Templepeter Barony or Half >> Barony of Forth and that I am worth the Sum of 10 Pounds Sterling over and >> above my just Debts. So help me God, (signed) Patt Clowry. >> The Condition of the Foregoing Recognizance is such that Margaret Neale >> shall appear in her Proper Person in Open Court and prosecute Robert >> Collier >> of Myshall for a Rape. >> Taken and Acknowledged before me at Myshall Lodge the day and Year >> aforesaid, (signed) John F. Cornwall. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/4982 - Release Date: 05/06/12

[ Note added 2012 by Michael Purcell - many documents in the Pat Purcell Papers dating from this period describe "Informations / Examinations " of people intimidated by groups blowing or sounding horns and shouting "Huzza, Huzza" outside their homes. The term "Pointer" was used to describe an Informer ] Pat Purcell Papers. 1810. The Information of John Motley of Leighlinbridge in County Carlow, Dealer. Taken before me [ ? ] Steurt, Esquire, one of his Majesties Justices of the Peace for Carlow. John Motley who being duly Sworn and Examined Saith that on the 23rd day of April 1810 Between the hours of Eight and nine of the Clock in the afternoon a number of persons Assembled in the Street opposite his Door in the Town of Leighlin Bridge and by the sounding of a Horn and forming a Riotous and Dangerous Mob. That after passing by John Motley's Door several times they began to Huzza, Huzza and called out for the Pointer at the same time carrying Effigy dressed as John Motley. That after carrying same through the street up and down, Mathew Farrell and Judith Farrell his wife, John Dargan, Randel Neal, William Bermingham, Sarah Keating, Francis Dwyer, William Farrell and Ann Farrell his wife, James Doyle, Peter Toole,James Toole and Patrick Flood all of Leighlin Bridge and Richard Walsh of Tomard all in County of Carlow and other persons unknown to John Motley came to his house and set fire to the Effigy and Burned it at his door at the same time crying -- Huzza, Huzza, Huzza the Pointer Motley is gone -- That after some time the aforesaid Mathew Farrell and his party came to Motley's door took up a Stone and threw it at the window and broke the same and there and then set fire to several Taggots of Furze at or against the door with intent to set fire to Motley's House in order to Consume it together with Motley's family and Property and John Motley further Saith that from such outrage he was obliged to quit his House both himself and wife being in dread and fear of being Murderd by the aforesaid party ~ (signed) John Motley. Sworn before me this [ ? ] day of May 1810 (signed) [ ? ] Steurt.

Thanks for the link! It may help to put a bit more information together about the Fenlons for me. Sue -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Trevor Clowry Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 7:30 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, Cornwall. Thanks Anna, Someone once mentioned to me that the name Clowry came up on the Ardal O Hanlon "who do you think you are" programme but I could be wrong. Here's the programme: http://www.rte.ie/tv/whodoyouthinkyouare/s1/outline_ardal-ohanlon.html I will try and watch it next time it is on. Trevor -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 07 May 2012 12:27 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-CARLOW] 1827, Neale, Collier, Clowry, Crowe, Gorman, Cornwall. these colliers are related to the comedian ardel o'hanlon on his mother's side and a lot of information is on his "who do you think you are?" programme.

Hi Mick The other PPP documents are listed under Robert Browne-Clayton Collection & Bunbury Papers extracts and the links for them are: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/Robert_Browne_Clayton_Papers_index.htm and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/Bunbury_document_Index.htm And there are more scattered around under different headings. Most of the links to most of the documents can be found on the Pat Purcell Papers Index page: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/Pat_Purcell_Papers_Index.htm I hope that's not too confusing. Regards Michael Brennan County Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm ******************************************

The Beet Song Air: 'The Mountains of Mourne ' 'It's down in Graiguenamanagh, we're run off our feet, Pullin', and crownin', and loadin' the beet. Our hands they're all blistered, our backs nearly broke, And divil a minit we get for a smoke. It's funny to hear all the things that they say, Each one complains in a different way, Some bless the day that the factory was built, And more people say, "Sure it have us all kilt'!. One farmer's pleased, and the other one's vexed, Because his percentage is lower than the next, More farmers say that the wages are high, And the labourers say, "With the hunger we'll die". It's breakin' the heart of the postman, Mick Byrne, When he looks at his bag with the factory return The gentleman driving his car on the roads Says, "Bad luck to the farmers, theirselves and their loads". The railway-man says "Sure we're up half the night, And no extra pay; sure that isn't right, And everyone says "Pullin' beet in the rain, will kill Half the country with rheumatic pain". Let them all grumble, myself I will say, We must have the sugar to sweeten the tay, And since we've started to grow sugar beet We've made our old country even more sweet. Written by Eddie Power of Tinnahinch, Co. Carlow Source: http://www.carlowcountymuseum.com/industry/sugar-factory/beet-song.html Regards Michael Brennan County Carlow Website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/ My Laois Page: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mjbrennan/index.htm ******************************************