Hi Al Many thanks for the comments! I have tried to contact the ireAtlas people to give them a list of the issues I have found but they have never responded - I'm not sure if it is still being maintained, it would be a great pity if it isn't? Proni is actually the worst of the three as the Townland lists are missing a vast number of entries. I've tried contacting them too, without success. I haven't looked in the last month or two, but there were a number of issues still there after the site was updated. They appear to have suffered from some sort of software 'crash' as there are patterns: - most townlands starting from about "Tu" onwards are missing - in general all but one of groups of townlands with the same name, but split into upper, middle, lower or east, west etc is missing - there are random errors in addition to these - the old lists of Baronies, PLUs etc had many omissions, but these seem to have been corrected with the new Proni website (I haven't done a careful check and so care is needed) - the old townland maps which had vanished last time I looked were all over the place, in many the numbering on the map bears no relationship to the numbering in the list, in others the maps don't match the parishes etc. I totally agree with your comments re accuracy - Irish research is hard enough without misleading info being out there. Kind Regards Murray Christchurch New Zealand Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> for ... * The only comprehensive list and map of New Zealand Cemeteries <http://fhr.kiwicelts.com/Cemeteries/NZ_Cemetery_Map.html> * Interactive Administrative District map of Ireland <http://ireland.kiwicelts.com/irishMap/ireMap.html> * Our Family History Al Valentine wrote: > All of us everywhere owe you a debt of extreme gratitude for all your hard > work. Errors in PRONI are dangerous as it should be as near perfect as man > can make it, so please share your corrections with them as I think those > would be welcomed. Yours is a great website. > Three cheers at least > Al Valentine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Murray" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:08 PM > Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] Map update > > > >> I meant to note in my original email that you may notice some >> differences between my database of townlands and parishes and those in >> ireAtlas, irish Ancestors and PRONI. >> >> PRONI differs, as my data and the first 2 of these databases are based >> on the "Index to the Townlands and Towns,Parishes and Baronies of >> Ireland, 1851" which is the index for the 1851 census whereas PRONI, >> despite claims on their website that it is also based on the 1851 >> census, is actually based on definitions that Griffith used for the >> valuation carried out in the 1860s, which are significantly different in >> some places from the census. >> >> An example of a difference is that 1860s and later parishes of Ahoghill, >> Craigs and Portglenone were part of Ahoghill Civil Parish in 1851. >> There are many such differences, more in Antrim than Derry and many more >> again in Down. These include the addition and deletion of both townlands >> and parishes as well as townlands being swapped around parishes. Where I >> have seen these differences, I have included a note which can be seen in >> the popup window you get by clicking on the icons. The census also >> notes a number of other changes which must have occurred just prior to >> the census, these are also noted. >> >> My database also differs from the ireAtlas and irish Ancestors databases >> as both of these contain a number of errors. I have had the luxury of >> being able to double check these databases against each other and to use >> the original census book to arbitrate as to which is correct. >> >> I have found that these two databases contain about 2-3% errors in all >> counties I have looked at so far, ranging from trivial typos to major >> errors where townlands are missing or placed in the wrong parish / >> county - usually as the transcriber crossed a line as they entered the >> data and got the info mixed up with the previous or next entry. The >> original is 1000 pages of very small and often indistinct print and I >> have enormous respect for those who painstakingly transcribed it for >> ireAtlas and irish Ancestors! >> >> As a result however, mine is closer to the original 1851 census data but >> I make no claims that it is perfect! Please let me know if you do spot >> an error :>). >> >> As a researcher of Ireland, it is important to understand that the >> parishes and townlands regularly changed and that there is no 'right' or >> 'wrong' definition. As a result, you need to be aware that, for example, >> the townland you have found in say Griffith in the early 1860s may or >> may not have existed in 1851or may have been part of a different parish. >> The parish it was part of may not even have been the adjacent one, but >> one two or three removed! This probably sounds confusing - it is - but >> it is a fact of life that you need to understand! >> >> As I have mentioned, I feel that the site could be improved to make it >> easier to use and so if you have any bright ideas, please let me know! >> -- >> >> Kind Regards >> >> Murray >> Christchurch >> New Zealand >> >> Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> for ... >> >> * The only comprehensive list and map of New Zealand Cemeteries >> <http://fhr.kiwicelts.com/Cemeteries/NZ_Cemetery_Map.html> >> * Interactive Administrative District map of Ireland >> <http://ireland.kiwicelts.com/irishMap/ireMap.html> >> * Our Family History >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

I have had the same problem with PRONI. I reported to them that the map on their website showing the Townlands in Islandmagee is incorrect, in that many of the Townlands are shown in the wrong position. They have never corrected the errors. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Murray Sent: 04 May 2008 00:00 To: Al Valentine Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IRL-ANTRIM] Map update Hi Al Many thanks for the comments! I have tried to contact the ireAtlas people to give them a list of the issues I have found but they have never responded - I'm not sure if it is still being maintained, it would be a great pity if it isn't? Proni is actually the worst of the three as the Townland lists are missing a vast number of entries. I've tried contacting them too, without success. I haven't looked in the last month or two, but there were a number of issues still there after the site was updated. They appear to have suffered from some sort of software 'crash' as there are patterns: - most townlands starting from about "Tu" onwards are missing - in general all but one of groups of townlands with the same name, but split into upper, middle, lower or east, west etc is missing - there are random errors in addition to these - the old lists of Baronies, PLUs etc had many omissions, but these seem to have been corrected with the new Proni website (I haven't done a careful check and so care is needed) - the old townland maps which had vanished last time I looked were all over the place, in many the numbering on the map bears no relationship to the numbering in the list, in others the maps don't match the parishes etc. I totally agree with your comments re accuracy - Irish research is hard enough without misleading info being out there. Kind Regards Murray Christchurch New Zealand Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> for ... * The only comprehensive list and map of New Zealand Cemeteries <http://fhr.kiwicelts.com/Cemeteries/NZ_Cemetery_Map.html> * Interactive Administrative District map of Ireland <http://ireland.kiwicelts.com/irishMap/ireMap.html> * Our Family History Al Valentine wrote: > All of us everywhere owe you a debt of extreme gratitude for all your hard > work. Errors in PRONI are dangerous as it should be as near perfect as man > can make it, so please share your corrections with them as I think those > would be welcomed. Yours is a great website. > Three cheers at least > Al Valentine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Murray" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:08 PM > Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] Map update > > > >> I meant to note in my original email that you may notice some >> differences between my database of townlands and parishes and those in >> ireAtlas, irish Ancestors and PRONI. >> >> PRONI differs, as my data and the first 2 of these databases are based >> on the "Index to the Townlands and Towns,Parishes and Baronies of >> Ireland, 1851" which is the index for the 1851 census whereas PRONI, >> despite claims on their website that it is also based on the 1851 >> census, is actually based on definitions that Griffith used for the >> valuation carried out in the 1860s, which are significantly different in >> some places from the census. >> >> An example of a difference is that 1860s and later parishes of Ahoghill, >> Craigs and Portglenone were part of Ahoghill Civil Parish in 1851. >> There are many such differences, more in Antrim than Derry and many more >> again in Down. These include the addition and deletion of both townlands >> and parishes as well as townlands being swapped around parishes. Where I >> have seen these differences, I have included a note which can be seen in >> the popup window you get by clicking on the icons. The census also >> notes a number of other changes which must have occurred just prior to >> the census, these are also noted. >> >> My database also differs from the ireAtlas and irish Ancestors databases >> as both of these contain a number of errors. I have had the luxury of >> being able to double check these databases against each other and to use >> the original census book to arbitrate as to which is correct. >> >> I have found that these two databases contain about 2-3% errors in all >> counties I have looked at so far, ranging from trivial typos to major >> errors where townlands are missing or placed in the wrong parish / >> county - usually as the transcriber crossed a line as they entered the >> data and got the info mixed up with the previous or next entry. The >> original is 1000 pages of very small and often indistinct print and I >> have enormous respect for those who painstakingly transcribed it for >> ireAtlas and irish Ancestors! >> >> As a result however, mine is closer to the original 1851 census data but >> I make no claims that it is perfect! Please let me know if you do spot >> an error :>). >> >> As a researcher of Ireland, it is important to understand that the >> parishes and townlands regularly changed and that there is no 'right' or >> 'wrong' definition. As a result, you need to be aware that, for example, >> the townland you have found in say Griffith in the early 1860s may or >> may not have existed in 1851or may have been part of a different parish. >> The parish it was part of may not even have been the adjacent one, but >> one two or three removed! This probably sounds confusing - it is - but >> it is a fact of life that you need to understand! >> >> As I have mentioned, I feel that the site could be improved to make it >> easier to use and so if you have any bright ideas, please let me know! >> -- >> >> Kind Regards >> >> Murray >> Christchurch >> New Zealand >> >> Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> for ... >> >> * The only comprehensive list and map of New Zealand Cemeteries >> <http://fhr.kiwicelts.com/Cemeteries/NZ_Cemetery_Map.html> >> * Interactive Administrative District map of Ireland >> <http://ireland.kiwicelts.com/irishMap/ireMap.html> >> * Our Family History >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message