Hello, I am trying to locate information on a relative from Antrim or possibly Down. My gg-grandafther William John Hawthorne Sr. (married to Elizabeth Bell in 1880, Lisburn) and his father James Hawthorne. I am wondering how I might go about getting William's birth certificate without knowing his mother's first or last name. I would like to obtain his father James and mother's marriage certificate but I have been unable to unearth any definitive source for his mother's identity. There seem to be a surplus of James and Williams running around Antrim Co. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance. Eireann

Steven: I have a copy of a 1773 appreciation letter of the passengers of the ship Lord Dunluce which sailed to Charleston, S.C. This may be a way to try and find them as by that period of time they were becoming popular as a way to tell the folks back home that they arrived safely. The Linen Hall Library in Belfast has a collection of these. Gordon Crooks ----- Original Message ----- From: <johnnylumen@comcast.net> To: <irl-antrim@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:37 PM Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] 1785 sailings from Antrim > Trying to determine port or ship that our MaryAnn? Biggers may have > departed from Antrim in 1785 after persecution by the Church after burying > her husband James in their yard. She would departed with three very young > sons. Family history says it was the ship Restoration to South Carolina, > but, of course, 1785 ship records are lacking, if existant at all. > Any thoughts would be sincerely appreciated. > Thank you. > r/Steven Mitchell, Naperville, IL, USA > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Norm, Do you find any SHANKS or WILSON's in the Balleymoney area in 1766 or before? My Mathew M. Shanks was married to ? Wilson in Carnmoney about 1762. They left for S. Carolina, Charleston, in Jan of 1767, she died enroute, and he had their son James, about 4 years old. They left from Belfast on the Earl of Hillsborough and were in S. Carolina, USA by Feb. Any help greatly appreciated!! Mary Widener ----- Original Message ----- From: "N.E.Parkes" <N.E.Parkes@btinternet.com> To: <irl-antrim@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-ANTRIM] 1785 sailings from Antrim > Steven, > > Have a search of the Belfast Newsletter at the University of Louisiana web > site http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/bnl/index.html > > Enter keyword Restoration in the search page. There are two pages of > results. Don't forget to read the results interpretation. > > By the way, there were folk named BIGGERT in the Ballymoney area of County > Antrim in 1766. > > Best regards > Norm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > To: <irl-antrim@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:37 PM > Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] 1785 sailings from Antrim > > >> Trying to determine port or ship that our MaryAnn? Biggers may have >> departed from Antrim in 1785 after persecution by the Church after >> burying >> her husband James in their yard. She would departed with three very young >> sons. Family history says it was the ship Restoration to South Carolina, >> but, of course, 1785 ship records are lacking, if existant at all. >> Any thoughts would be sincerely appreciated. >> Thank you. >> r/Steven Mitchell, Naperville, IL, USA >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I would be willing to help as a file manager.

Sorry, I knew they would upset someone. LOL I picked it as one of the oldest and bec. it shows Ireland on it. My great idea of using a stamp did present problems. Thanks for checking us out. Hope our data will make up for our stamp. Chris On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:44:21 +0100, David Gough wrote: > Nice site. Good idea. Pity about them stamps though.

Ireland Genealogy Projects (IGP) has a new project. The project is an archives for Ireland. The idea is that we will put transcriptions of Public Domain (pre 1923) documents online. This will not replace our county projects - it will be an adjunct to them. Submissions and volunteers are very welcome. Submissions would be in text format. The project is called Ireland Genealogy Projects Archives You can see it at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlarchive/ Thanks, Christina (We are also looking for File Managers. A little website experience is needed for that.)

In the article Directory of Irish Family Research 2000, Tenants on the estates of the Earls of Antrim in the 17th century, Ian Montgomery, pp 80-81 The terms Esq. __ Esquire; Gent. - Gentleman; Yeo. Yeoman are used. Can anyone explain what each of these meant in the context of the 1600's please. Mike Boyd Brisbane, Aust

Recently I was sent - Directory of Irish Family Research 2000, Tenants on the estates of the Earls of Antrim in the 17th century, Ian Montgomery, pp 80-81 Which had a list of the leases that have survived. However the question arises has aone done done anything similar for the 18th Century records and even the sub-leases. Thank you. Mike Boyd Brisbane

Thank you Chris. I am a long term member of this Antrim list and the Down list and I can attest that there are some very dedicated researchers on this list. The newer Belfast City list is also generating a lot of action. Thanks all for your dedication to providing data for Free genealogy databases. Don Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina Hunt" <filidh@carolina.rr.com> To: <IRL-ANTRIM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:48 AM Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] New Project Announcement! > Ireland Genealogy Projects (IGP) has a new project. The project is an > archives for > Ireland. The idea is that we will put transcriptions of Public Domain (pre > 1923) documents > online. This will not replace our county projects - it will be an adjunct > to them. > Submissions and volunteers are very welcome. Submissions would be in text > format. > > The project is called Ireland Genealogy Projects Archives > You can see it at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlarchive/ > Thanks, > Christina > (We are also looking for File Managers. A little website experience is > needed for that.) > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The Scotch-Irish - an insult, hardly! To call them Scotch-Irish may be an unacceptable to some Scots, and it is an amusing controversy, but the term is quite acceptable where the many listers hail from. "Scotch-Irish" found its way into the lexicon a very long time ago. Even though the term is an Americanism, and not generally known in Scotland and Ireland, it has been in general use since the 18th century. But it goes back even further. Writing in 1573 good queen Elizabeth (yes, I know - she is hardly a Scot!) used the term Scotch-Irish and nobody raised any objection, except perhaps Sorley Boy � but given the context perhaps his objections were a bit muted. Beth said, �We are given to understand that a nobleman named �Sorley Boy� [McDonald] and others, who be of the Scotch-Irish race, and some of the wild Irish, at this time are content to acknowledge our true and mere right to the countrie of Ulster and the crowne of Ireland�� Good Queen Liz then offered the right, ownership, and the inheritance of the land ��upon the taking of an oath of allegiance to any meer Irish, or Scotch-Irish, or other strangers.� But that was only an English Queen and she should be excused her transgressions, except for the fact that the late Professor James G. Leyburn located in the 1675 register of the University of Glasgow records and enrollment of one Francis Makemie from Ramelton. It included a notation that he was �Scoto-Hibernicus.� That is, of course, Scotch-Irish. This Franciscus Makemius was later to emigrate to North America where he founded the Presbyterian Church on that continent, and organized the first Presbytery in Philadelphia in 1706. By the way, the last time I googled Glasgow, it was still in Scotland. The Rev. Cotton Mather who received his Doctor of Divinity in 1710 from the University of Glasgow was a leading clergyman in the American colonies. In 1706 he wrote, � I write letters unto diverse persons of Honour both in Scotland and in England; to procure Settlements of good Scotch Colonies, to the Northwest of us.� For a little more history, during this formative period of American colonies the term �Scotch-Irish� was little used. This was not because it was felt to be disparaging, but rather the preferred term for those that originally emigrated was �Irish.� Most of these immigrants were originally Ulstermen, and between 1717 and the Revolutionary War more than a quarter million from Ulster came to America. And a majority were Presbyterians and other dissenters. Even during the Revolutionary War they referred to themselves as Irish. And the term stuck until the mid-19th century when the poorer and principally illiterate elements arrived, primarily Roman Catholics. This flood of Irish escaping the Famine was descending upon what was then a Protestant county, much like Ulster. Prejudice against all foreigners was rampant, not so much on a sectarian basis, but because these people would hire out at near slave wages. Like much of Ulster, the antipathy was generated at the lower class, that laboring mass that competed for jobs. It was at this time that the descendants of the original Irish settlers, most from Ulster and a majority were Protestant, sought ways to distinguish themselves from the newcomers � the �shanty Irish� or bog trotters. So the compound name came into being � that cant phrase, a shibboleth, a mongrel absurdity, and even the Scotch-Irish Society of America has been described as a humbug. But a good shot of Glenfiddich Ancient Reserve or even some 20 year old Black Bush will do wonders and might lighten one up just a little bit. That is the true meaning of Scotch-Irish. Myself, I prefer a pint of Smiticks. j.j.carroll@earthlink.net

Mike: I have a 1932 Pears Cyclopedia and here is what it says Esq/Equire= A squire, a general title. Gent/Gentlemen= One of good birth, a person of position or refinement. Yeo/Yeoman= man, a farmer, a freeholder. I also have a 1914 Webster's dictionary and the terms above agree with them too. Both of these books are English printed. Hope this helps. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Boyd" <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> To: <irl-antrim@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] Meaning of term for 1600's > In the article Directory of Irish Family Research 2000, Tenants on the > estates of the Earls of Antrim in the 17th century, Ian Montgomery, pp > 80-81 > > The terms Esq. __ Esquire; Gent. - Gentleman; Yeo. Yeoman are used. > > Can anyone explain what each of these meant in the context of the 1600's > please. > > Mike Boyd > > Brisbane, Aust > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Do you happen to subscribe to emerald ancestors? Would you have time to look up one name-James Bultitude who married in Elizabeth in Down in 1884. MANY THANKS. Sandra in Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Williams" <jennywil@hotkey.net.au> To: <irl-antrim@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] HOFFMAN/MINNIS > Many thank you's to you Heather. Your help is much appreciated, > Jenny in AUS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <irishheather7@aol.co.uk> > To: <IRL-ANTRIM@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:24 PM > Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] HOFFMAN/MINNIS > > >> Hi Jenny >> >> I picked the following up from www.emeraldancestors.com which may be of >> use:- >> >> Record TypeCivil Marriage >> Date of Marriage23 Sep 1858 >> Groom NameJames HOFFMAN >> Bride NameAmelia MINNIS >> ChurchSaint Annes Church of Ireland >> ParishShankill >> Civil DistrictBelfast >> CountyAntrim >> >> >> You can order the certificate from the General Registry Office in Belfast >> (just google "GRONI") and it should have residence, fathers name and >> occupation if you need more details. >> >> Cheers >> Heather >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Check out the new free AOL Email -- 2GB of storage and industry-leading >> spam and email virus protection. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Julie, I'm not sure if this is in connection to your family members or not but I have an Isabella Adair as a marriage witness to one of my relatives, Herbert Greenwood and Annie Cooper's marriage in Upper Falls Methodist Church, Shankill, Co. Antrim. The marriage was in 1913 - Isabella Adair was the witness for Annie Cooper. please let me know if you come across any connections to an Isabella. It may lead me to my realtives or they may be related in some way. Eireann > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:48:51 -0000 > From: "julie tyrell" <julie.zylon@btinternet.com> > Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] Name Interests: ADAIR amd COWDEN > To: <IRL-ANTRIM@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <00e201c74d3b$b9eacad0$0c01a8c0@julie> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi > > I am new to the list. > > I have just discovered that my g.g.g.grandmother Eliza ADAIR (b.1857) was > from Antrim. Her parents were James ADAIR and Ann Jane COWDEN. From the > IGI records James and Ann, married 30th July 1835, Millrow, Presb Church, > Antrim. > > Is there anyway I can find out who their parents were or are there any > Censuses still available? > > Any advise would be gratefull, > Thanks Julie >

Hi Julie, I don't have any details on your family, but would be interested if you come across any Adair/McClure connections. My ancestors William and Sarah McClure nee Whitesides married around 1845 in the Belfast area. One of their sons was called William Adair McClure, and of their daughters Jane named one of her sons Theophilus Adair Hayes. I presume their was an Adair connection to the family somewhere. Bye for now. Ray Ray Hayes Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Researching: Hayes – Hadspen, Deloraine, Natone, Burnie areas of Tasmania Deacon – Trowbridge, Wiltshire to London and surrounds to Victoria and South Australia, Australia Norton – Birmingham and West Bromwich areas to Tasmania, Australia Delve – Barnstaple area of Devon, and Wales Kaine – Ayr, Scotland to Tasmania, Australia Roark – Camolin, Wexford to Victoria, Australia Thorne – St Giles in the Wood, Devon McClure – Antrim, Ireland to Tasmania and Victoria, Australia Boyle – Ayr, Scotland Sidney - Bristol, Gloucester to Tasmania, Australia Bolton - Wexford, Ireland Redmore - Devon Howman - Great Ryburgh, Norfolk to Victoria, Australia julie tyrell wrote: >Hi > >I am new to the list. > >I have just discovered that my g.g.g.grandmother Eliza ADAIR (b.1857) was from Antrim. Her parents were James ADAIR and Ann Jane COWDEN. From the IGI records James and Ann, married 30th July 1835, Millrow, Presb Church, Antrim. > >Is there anyway I can find out who their parents were or are there any Censuses still available? > >Any advise would be gratefull, >Thanks Julie > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hello all just wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of the http://www.emeraldancestors.com/ for £10 a month you can get to look through a Northern Ireland birth death and marriage index and collect some great surname leads, it also has a free search, the full detail cert information are expensive at £12.00 each but the County Down rootsweb mailing list and myself are getting real value for money from this great site-give it a try. Yvonne Lascelles

Don't take this too seriously... apologies to the list and list owner My Parents and grand parents said "Scots are the people, Scotch is a drink" Not so long ago I was sent in Prestwick by locals including my Great Aunt born 1881 (died aged 105) to buy Mutton Pies from the butchers. She was the Cook the the Earl of Lindsay at Kilconquhar in Fife, and also previously to Lord David Stewart in Rothesay. This is reputedly where I was named after "Lindsay" Mysteriously over the years these pies have become 'Scotch Pies', now they are available in England too, but called this even in Scotland. Thank goodness there is no "Scotch' in them as I hate Whisky. So I take great pleasure going into the butchers and asking for 'Mutton Pies' and them not knowing what they are, or asking them "is there Scotch in those scotch pies?" Of course today most ordinary folk in Scotland just call them "pies" nowadays as it is hard to determine what's in them except the hot fat that runs down your arm when your eating one in a football ground. Have a look in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_%28disambiguation%29 Lindsay Young -----Original Message----- From: ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ayrshire-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lowlandscot@aol.com Sent: 10 February 2007 18:11 To: irl-antrim@rootsweb.com; ayrshire@rootsweb.com; BOYD@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [AYR] Scots and Scotch In a message dated 10/02/2007 14:56:29 GMT Standard Time, moments-in-time@houston.rr.com writes: I used to take this position too with a rather hard-headedness until I was "historically corrected". Going back through the literature into the 1600's -1800's the "Scots" were most often referred to as "Scotch". I think the crunch is in the words 'referred to' The Scots didn't call themselves Scotch ..others did...and the Scots found it irritating long before genealogy became popular. Historically names for people of other nationalities and colour are rarely anything other than derogatory so shouldn't be revived. Irene ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AYRSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I am new to the list. I have just discovered that my g.g.g.grandmother Eliza ADAIR (b.1857) was from Antrim. Her parents were James ADAIR and Ann Jane COWDEN. From the IGI records James and Ann, married 30th July 1835, Millrow, Presb Church, Antrim. Is there anyway I can find out who their parents were or are there any Censuses still available? Any advise would be gratefull, Thanks Julie

Many thank you's to you Heather. Your help is much appreciated, Jenny in AUS ----- Original Message ----- From: <irishheather7@aol.co.uk> To: <IRL-ANTRIM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: [IRL-ANTRIM] HOFFMAN/MINNIS > Hi Jenny > > I picked the following up from www.emeraldancestors.com which may be of > use:- > > Record TypeCivil Marriage > Date of Marriage23 Sep 1858 > Groom NameJames HOFFMAN > Bride NameAmelia MINNIS > ChurchSaint Annes Church of Ireland > ParishShankill > Civil DistrictBelfast > CountyAntrim > > > You can order the certificate from the General Registry Office in Belfast > (just google "GRONI") and it should have residence, fathers name and > occupation if you need more details. > > Cheers > Heather > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new free AOL Email -- 2GB of storage and industry-leading > spam and email virus protection. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRL-ANTRIM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 10/02/2007 14:56:29 GMT Standard Time, moments-in-time@houston.rr.com writes: I used to take this position too with a rather hard-headedness until I was "historically corrected". Going back through the literature into the 1600's -1800's the "Scots" were most often referred to as "Scotch". I think the crunch is in the words 'referred to' The Scots didn't call themselves Scotch ..others did...and the Scots found it irritating long before genealogy became popular. Historically names for people of other nationalities and colour are rarely anything other than derogatory so shouldn't be revived. Irene

Don You are quite correct. This is quoted form someone else work, so I had to go with what they wrote. I suppose that I should have made a footnote that he wrong term was used. Mike Boyd Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donal O'Kelly" <ocollaugh@comcast.net> To: <irl-antrim@rootsweb.com>; <ayrshire@rootsweb.com>; <BOYD@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [IRL-ANTRIM] Thomas Boyd and Mary Miller of Kilmarnock, Ayrshire > Since they were born in Scotland, can we assume they were Scots the > nationality and not Scotch the whiskey? > > One of my ancestors I know of came to Ireland from Scotland and in his > writing he said they were Scots. > > Thanks for clarifying the oft abused term Scotch. > > Don Kelly >