Sounds like you've had some negative experiences... The Church considers marriage a religious Sacrament and not a civil event. Therefore they don't feel obligated to report the marriage. Not good for us but... I've had the same problem with some ancestors of mine. I've been unable to find their marriage, c 1870, and unable to find him in the 1850 & 1860 censuses so I don't know what neighborhood he lived in. I've found the baptisms of their children and the wife...marriage of the wife's parents, etc...but not their marriage, very frustrating. I've found, in my "numerous" requests for lookups at these churches, that many of the people that do the lookups are volunteers and consequently the effort may be lacking. One church, St. Mary's on the Lower East Side, required my calling on a half dozen different occasions over an 8 month period before the checking was finally done...Her name was "Sima" and I'm sure she doesn't want to hear from me again. She was very nice though. Merry Christmas Frank McCullough California Michelle and Kevin Cassidy wrote: >Yes, I do send a donation. I have started calling first to make sure >I send the correct amount. It is up to $25 at some places. They do >not always cash the checks right away. Sometimes they forget to send >a letter saying they did not find a marriage despite having a SASE >with the check. The check clears and when called they say they >thought they sent me a note. The letter then comes in a different >envelope than the one I sent. Did they even check or just take the >money and run? Most have been very cordial and helpful but a few have >been very rude. > >One priest in particular comes to mind. I know they do not exist to >serve our genealogical curiosity but hiring a professional will not >make my request go away. He seems to think that I would rather pay >him $25 for a chance that they were married at his parish and get >minimal details when I could pay Muni Archives $15 and get much >information on a civil record. I could also rent the film from the >FHL for $5.50 or send a request for a copy through the FHL for 8 >copies at $16. He did not believe me when I shared that many Catholic >marriages do not have a civil record from before 1915. I challenged >him to pull ten marriages from his records between 1866-1907 and see >how many do not show up on the IGG index. Even Milton Hershey's 1898 >wedding at St. Patrick's did not get turned into the Health >Department. Marriage records unlike the baptismal records are public >records. They were supposed to be turned in at the time of the >wedding. The archdiocese should do the right thing and turn in copies >of all these marriage records from before 1915. They would eliminate >requests like ours and provide a huge amount of goodwill for themselves. > > >On Dec 24, 2007, at 12:38 PM, Frank McCullough wrote: > > > >>When you send a request for lookup, do you also send along a donation? >> >>Frank >> >> >>Michelle and Kevin Cassidy wrote: >> >> >> >>>I have had a devil of a time finding marriages of certain couples. >>>One would assume that for a couple to marry they must live near each >>>other at some point or marry someone that lived near a friend, job or >>>relative. >>> >>>I have one couple that married in 1905 at Epiphany near the bride's >>>home in the East 20s but the groom lived on East 88th Street. Since >>>brides particularly do not show up in the city directory as a single >>>woman how have you found more difficult couples? I write to the >>>surrounding parishes and more often than not it is a bust. Also many >>>of the parishes are not so eager to look stuff up. Any tried and true >>>suggestions? >>> >>>The lack of full compliance by the priests in the civil recording of >>>weddings with the Health Department before 1908 has complicated the >>>matter in 2007. Unfortunately, the 5 marriages I am seeking took >>>place c. 1881, c.1886, c. 1890, c.1898 and c. 1900. None of these >>>five show up on the IGG site marriage index. I have church >>>certificates for several marriages that do not appear on the IGG >>>site; 1878, 1881, 1882, 1892 and 1903. >>> >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- >>>YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- >>YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

The church does celebrate marriage as a sacrament but it understands that it serves a purely civil purpose as well and that the state can require a license or require a reporting of a marriage; for inheritance and other reasons. The Irish priests in Ireland were recording civil records of marriage with the government in 1864 and later. It amazes me that the priests here felt comfortable ignoring the state law in NY requiring them to do likewise. (Are the fines still in effect or has the statute of limitations run? It was $50 an omission until 1890 or so and then went to $100. That would add up especially with interest.) I especially find it annoying that since the 19th-century priests did not do their civic duty we have such a chore on our hands to find the marriage yet Fr. is annoyed with you and me and it never dawns on him that his predecessors are ultimately responsible and his superiors are doing nothing to expedite the correction. I can only imagine that since Chicago's older records are available through the FHL that they have few requests at the parish level. I will stop complaining and wait to read others tales of success with parish marriage searches!