Absolutely wonderful idea, but you are depending upon the individual parishes reporting accurately to the Archdiocese. Believe me, in NYC, they will not consider such searches for $2. each. I don't understand how this resolves the privacy issue. BMc kmct@earthlink.net writes: > Below in black is a copy of a correspondence I have started to send > to genealogy groups in the NY metro area. If anyone has suggestions > or ideas please share them. This is a "problem" that has a solution > that is acceptable to everyone. We want the records information, the > secretaries want to be left alone and the priests do to. I don't know > that the parishes are bankrolling much if any money of this by the > end of the day. I agree that the costs are a bit steep but don't > envision that there are that many requests every day of the month. > > > My ancestors were all Irish immigrants who arrived in Manhattan > between 1871-1925. They were Catholics. I am hoping to get a group > of genealogists together to approach the Archdiocese of NY to make > their sacramental records more readily available to the public. Many > births and weddings went unrecorded in the 19th-century so the > baptismal and marriage records are the only documents that exist to > substantiate a date of birth, maiden name, relatives' names as > witnesses etc. The records exist in their paper form only and are > kept at the local parish or successor parish if the church was closed/ > torn down. > > I know this is an odd request but my approaches as an individual have > not helped, so I am reaching out to see what groups may be interested > in approaching the issue in numbers. > > I am surprised that the parishes don't realize that the an > archdiocesan index would benefit them greatly. If a master index > existed the archdiocese could maintain it and charge a fee of say $2 > a request. Then once we had the right parish we would write to them > and pay an extra 10 or even 20 dollars at the parish. If we knew it > was the right parish it would make the cost worthwhile. That is a win > win for all involved. The archdiocese would get money it does not get > currently. The parish would spend less time on goose chases and be > fully compensated for its searches. It would also preserve the books > because the book would only be searched for the page needed and no more. > > This would also eliminate any "privacy" concerns that might be raised. > ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

My idea of the master index being at the chancery and only charging $2 an item would protect privacy because it would be retained by the Church only and not online for everyone. Since the master index would be a computerized list it should not take but a second to find John Smith married Marry Brown in 1853 at St. Parish B. Then you write St. Parish B with the index citation and get a copy for $10, $20 and it is as private then as it was today under the current retrieval system. It is just a lot faster. On Dec 30, 2007, at 2:08 AM, HeirLinesNY@aol.com wrote: > Absolutely wonderful idea, but you are depending upon the > individual parishes > reporting accurately to the Archdiocese. > Believe me, in NYC, they will not consider such searches for $2. each. > > I don't understand how this resolves the privacy issue. > BMc > > kmct@earthlink.net writes: > > >> Below in black is a copy of a correspondence I have started to send >> to genealogy groups in the NY metro area. If anyone has suggestions >> or ideas please share them. This is a "problem" that has a solution >> that is acceptable to everyone. We want the records information, the >> secretaries want to be left alone and the priests do to. I don't know >> that the parishes are bankrolling much if any money of this by the >> end of the day. I agree that the costs are a bit steep but don't >> envision that there are that many requests every day of the month. >> >> >> My ancestors were all Irish immigrants who arrived in Manhattan >> between 1871-1925. They were Catholics. I am hoping to get a group >> of genealogists together to approach the Archdiocese of NY to make >> their sacramental records more readily available to the public. Many >> births and weddings went unrecorded in the 19th-century so the >> baptismal and marriage records are the only documents that exist to >> substantiate a date of birth, maiden name, relatives' names as >> witnesses etc. The records exist in their paper form only and are >> kept at the local parish or successor parish if the church was >> closed/ >> torn down. >> >> I know this is an odd request but my approaches as an individual have >> not helped, so I am reaching out to see what groups may be interested >> in approaching the issue in numbers. >> >> I am surprised that the parishes don't realize that the an >> archdiocesan index would benefit them greatly. If a master index >> existed the archdiocese could maintain it and charge a fee of say $2 >> a request. Then once we had the right parish we would write to them >> and pay an extra 10 or even 20 dollars at the parish. If we knew it >> was the right parish it would make the cost worthwhile. That is a win >> win for all involved. The archdiocese would get money it does not get >> currently. The parish would spend less time on goose chases and be >> fully compensated for its searches. It would also preserve the books >> because the book would only be searched for the page needed and no >> more. >> >> This would also eliminate any "privacy" concerns that might be >> raised. >> > > > > > ************************************** > See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- > YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found weddings and deaths of my NYC Irish ancestors on Italian Gen. They have a wonderful resource and I suggest that everyone go to their web site and volunteer at something that is already "up and going so well." It is best for all if the records are online rather than given to one person privately -- perhaps over and over again as various researchers ask -- and Italian Gen has done a marvelous job so far, but needs volunteers to put up additional years. I think once they show what a careful and wonderful job they have done, the Archdiocese might be proud to let them have the sacramental records. There has been a problem with the LDS because, as you may or may not know, the LDS family researchers re-baptize all of their ancestors as Mormons, that is their sole purpose for doing the filming and opening their Family History Centers. The un-cooperating Catholic Bishops here and Lutheran Bishops in Germany feel that is not ethical practice -- nor what those individual souls would ever wish for! So they are protecting your dear ancestors from what they believe is an eternal fate far worse than your temporal anger with ecclesiastical authorities! Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: HeirLinesNY@aol.com To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:08 AM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] NYC Archdiocesan searches Absolutely wonderful idea, but you are depending upon the individual parishes reporting accurately to the Archdiocese. Believe me, in NYC, they will not consider such searches for $2. each. I don't understand how this resolves the privacy issue. BMc kmct@earthlink.net writes: > Below in black is a copy of a correspondence I have started to send > to genealogy groups in the NY metro area. If anyone has suggestions > or ideas please share them. This is a "problem" that has a solution > that is acceptable to everyone. We want the records information, the > secretaries want to be left alone and the priests do to. I don't know > that the parishes are bankrolling much if any money of this by the > end of the day. I agree that the costs are a bit steep but don't > envision that there are that many requests every day of the month. > > > My ancestors were all Irish immigrants who arrived in Manhattan > between 1871-1925. They were Catholics. I am hoping to get a group > of genealogists together to approach the Archdiocese of NY to make > their sacramental records more readily available to the public. Many > births and weddings went unrecorded in the 19th-century so the > baptismal and marriage records are the only documents that exist to > substantiate a date of birth, maiden name, relatives' names as > witnesses etc. The records exist in their paper form only and are > kept at the local parish or successor parish if the church was closed/ > torn down. > > I know this is an odd request but my approaches as an individual have > not helped, so I am reaching out to see what groups may be interested > in approaching the issue in numbers. > > I am surprised that the parishes don't realize that the an > archdiocesan index would benefit them greatly. If a master index > existed the archdiocese could maintain it and charge a fee of say $2 > a request. Then once we had the right parish we would write to them > and pay an extra 10 or even 20 dollars at the parish. If we knew it > was the right parish it would make the cost worthwhile. That is a win > win for all involved. The archdiocese would get money it does not get > currently. The parish would spend less time on goose chases and be > fully compensated for its searches. It would also preserve the books > because the book would only be searched for the page needed and no more. > > This would also eliminate any "privacy" concerns that might be raised. > ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My ancestors are burning in hell or enjoying the bliss of heaven or experiencing the purging fires on their way to heaven based on their lives and the state of their souls at the time of death. Assuming that the Mormon ordinances are not what Jesus wants, it still has no bearing at all on the souls of already dead people. You mean to tell me that Francis of Assisi was in heaven until he was baptized Mormon and then all of a sudden his soul was flushed from heaven and burning in hell? How weak must the NYC Catholic and German Lutheran bishops' faith be? It is basic theology that no Protestant or Catholic should worry about what a Mormon does with regards to these records. I am a Catholic in good standing and find it ridiculous that I can't easily access certain church records because of what a Mormon is doing. On Dec 31, 2007, at 8:07 PM, Maureen wrote: > I found weddings and deaths of my NYC Irish ancestors on Italian Gen. > They have a wonderful resource and I suggest that everyone go to their > web site and volunteer at something that is already "up and going > so well." > > It is best for all if the records are online rather than given to > one person > privately -- perhaps over and over again as various researchers > ask -- and > Italian Gen has done a marvelous job so far, but needs volunteers > to put > up additional years. > > I think once they show what a careful and wonderful job they have > done, > the Archdiocese might be proud to let them have the sacramental > records. > > There has been a problem with the LDS because, as you may or may not > know, the LDS family researchers re-baptize all of their ancestors as > Mormons, that is their sole purpose for doing the filming and opening > their Family History Centers. > > The un-cooperating Catholic Bishops here and Lutheran Bishops in > Germany > feel that is not ethical practice -- nor what those individual > souls would ever > wish for! > > So they are protecting your dear ancestors from what they believe > is an > eternal fate far worse than your temporal anger with ecclesiastical > authorities! > > Maureen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HeirLinesNY@aol.com > To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:08 AM > Subject: [IRISH-NYC] NYC Archdiocesan searches > > > Absolutely wonderful idea, but you are depending upon the > individual parishes > reporting accurately to the Archdiocese. > Believe me, in NYC, they will not consider such searches for $2. > each. > > I don't understand how this resolves the privacy issue. > BMc > > kmct@earthlink.net writes: > > >> Below in black is a copy of a correspondence I have started to send >> to genealogy groups in the NY metro area. If anyone has suggestions >> or ideas please share them. This is a "problem" that has a solution >> that is acceptable to everyone. We want the records information, the >> secretaries want to be left alone and the priests do to. I don't know >> that the parishes are bankrolling much if any money of this by the >> end of the day. I agree that the costs are a bit steep but don't >> envision that there are that many requests every day of the month. >> >> >> My ancestors were all Irish immigrants who arrived in Manhattan >> between 1871-1925. They were Catholics. I am hoping to get a group >> of genealogists together to approach the Archdiocese of NY to make >> their sacramental records more readily available to the public. Many >> births and weddings went unrecorded in the 19th-century so the >> baptismal and marriage records are the only documents that exist to >> substantiate a date of birth, maiden name, relatives' names as >> witnesses etc. The records exist in their paper form only and are >> kept at the local parish or successor parish if the church was >> closed/ >> torn down. >> >> I know this is an odd request but my approaches as an individual have >> not helped, so I am reaching out to see what groups may be interested >> in approaching the issue in numbers. >> >> I am surprised that the parishes don't realize that the an >> archdiocesan index would benefit them greatly. If a master index >> existed the archdiocese could maintain it and charge a fee of say $2 >> a request. Then once we had the right parish we would write to them >> and pay an extra 10 or even 20 dollars at the parish. If we knew it >> was the right parish it would make the cost worthwhile. That is a win >> win for all involved. The archdiocese would get money it does not get >> currently. The parish would spend less time on goose chases and be >> fully compensated for its searches. It would also preserve the books >> because the book would only be searched for the page needed and no >> more. >> >> This would also eliminate any "privacy" concerns that might be >> raised. >> > > > > > ************************************** > See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- > YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- > YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I do volunteer for the Italian Gen website and as a matter of fact, am typing in a batch of naturalization information now. But unfortunately none of my NYC Irish Catholic ancestors who married in the second half of the 19th century can be found on their website. None. Zip. Nada. As for the Mormons, God bless them! They are very kind and generous with their genealogy resources. So what if they have an ulterior motive? If we believe in our theology, then anything they do can have no impact on the souls of our Catholic ancestors. Besides, wouldn't they already be at risk from the census records that are readily available? Do the Bishops think they are hiding these ancestors from the Mormon Church? Couldn't they just be baptized from a City Directory? All kidding aside, let's just keep asking those in charge to find a way to get this historical information not only accessible but protected. I fear the loss of these records from fire or other dangers more than I do that my ancestors will suddenly switch faiths in the after life! Melanie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maureen" <mcshelly2@msn.com> To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] NYC Archdiocesan searches >I found weddings and deaths of my NYC Irish ancestors on Italian Gen. > They have a wonderful resource and I suggest that everyone go to their > web site and volunteer at something that is already "up and going so > well." > > It is best for all if the records are online rather than given to one > person > privately -- perhaps over and over again as various researchers ask -- > and > Italian Gen has done a marvelous job so far, but needs volunteers to put > up additional years. > > I think once they show what a careful and wonderful job they have done, > the Archdiocese might be proud to let them have the sacramental records. > > There has been a problem with the LDS because, as you may or may not > know, the LDS family researchers re-baptize all of their ancestors as > Mormons, that is their sole purpose for doing the filming and opening > their Family History Centers. > > The un-cooperating Catholic Bishops here and Lutheran Bishops in Germany > feel that is not ethical practice -- nor what those individual souls would > ever > wish for! > > So they are protecting your dear ancestors from what they believe is an > eternal fate far worse than your temporal anger with ecclesiastical > authorities! > > Maureen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HeirLinesNY@aol.com > To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:08 AM > Subject: [IRISH-NYC] NYC Archdiocesan searches > > > Absolutely wonderful idea, but you are depending upon the individual > parishes > reporting accurately to the Archdiocese. > Believe me, in NYC, they will not consider such searches for $2. each. > > I don't understand how this resolves the privacy issue. > BMc > > kmct@earthlink.net writes: > > > > Below in black is a copy of a correspondence I have started to send > > to genealogy groups in the NY metro area. If anyone has suggestions > > or ideas please share them. This is a "problem" that has a solution > > that is acceptable to everyone. We want the records information, the > > secretaries want to be left alone and the priests do to. I don't know > > that the parishes are bankrolling much if any money of this by the > > end of the day. I agree that the costs are a bit steep but don't > > envision that there are that many requests every day of the month. > > > > > > My ancestors were all Irish immigrants who arrived in Manhattan > > between 1871-1925. They were Catholics. I am hoping to get a group > > of genealogists together to approach the Archdiocese of NY to make > > their sacramental records more readily available to the public. Many > > births and weddings went unrecorded in the 19th-century so the > > baptismal and marriage records are the only documents that exist to > > substantiate a date of birth, maiden name, relatives' names as > > witnesses etc. The records exist in their paper form only and are > > kept at the local parish or successor parish if the church was closed/ > > torn down. > > > > I know this is an odd request but my approaches as an individual have > > not helped, so I am reaching out to see what groups may be interested > > in approaching the issue in numbers. > > > > I am surprised that the parishes don't realize that the an > > archdiocesan index would benefit them greatly. If a master index > > existed the archdiocese could maintain it and charge a fee of say $2 > > a request. Then once we had the right parish we would write to them > > and pay an extra 10 or even 20 dollars at the parish. If we knew it > > was the right parish it would make the cost worthwhile. That is a win > > win for all involved. The archdiocese would get money it does not get > > currently. The parish would spend less time on goose chases and be > > fully compensated for its searches. It would also preserve the books > > because the book would only be searched for the page needed and no > more. > > > > This would also eliminate any "privacy" concerns that might be raised. > > > > > > > ************************************** > See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >