I agree with you! I can't find civil marriage records for any of my relatives married in the 1870's and 1880's. I've sent numerous letters to parishes and it is hard to know if they even looked or even if it is the right parish. I can see that they have many other things to do, but then perhaps the books should be allowed to be microfilmed or copied so that the information would be available and they wouldn't be bothered. Does anyone know if this type of project is possible? There is a wealth of information there. One parish that has been amazing with baptisms is Immaculate Conception. They have twice sent a photocopy of the baptismal records for 6 or 7 children of the ancestors I was researching. They truly made an extra effort which was so helpful. We didn't know many of the children existed because they died so young. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle and Kevin Cassidy" <kmct@earthlink.net> To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Distance between parishes of couples > > The church does celebrate marriage as a sacrament but it understands > that it serves a purely civil purpose as well and that the state can > require a license or require a reporting of a marriage; for > inheritance and other reasons. The Irish priests in Ireland were > recording civil records of marriage with the government in 1864 and > later. It amazes me that the priests here felt comfortable ignoring > the state law in NY requiring them to do likewise. (Are the fines > still in effect or has the statute of limitations run? It was $50 an > omission until 1890 or so and then went to $100. That would add up > especially with interest.) > > I especially find it annoying that since the 19th-century priests did > not do their civic duty we have such a chore on our hands to find the > marriage yet Fr. is annoyed with you and me and it never dawns on him > that his predecessors are ultimately responsible and his superiors > are doing nothing to expedite the correction. I can only imagine that > since Chicago's older records are available through the FHL that they > have few requests at the parish level. > > I will stop complaining and wait to read others tales of success with > parish marriage searches! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree with Immaculate Conception being cooperative and providing children one may not have known about. I was provided with my ancestor's first wedding and the daughter of this first marriage, his brother's marriage and baptism a year later of apparently the only child of the brother's marriage and lastly the baptisms of the third brother's 5 American-born children. I assume that they must have an index. That is not the case at other parishes. Unfortunately, my ancestor's second marriage did not take place at Immaculate Conception. I am searching the Cassidy brothers. The first and third brothers married McKeon sisters in 1878 and 1882. The middle brother had married a Murphy in Newry, County Down/Armagh in 1877. The city of Newry crosses the river and is in both counties. I have written the archdiocese and it does not appear that any plans are being made to microfilm these records. I suggested that they create an index so that we could contact the right parish in a one shot deal but they did not take my suggestion seriously. An index would provide money for the diocese which could maintain it and charge a small fee. The parish could still charge $20 or so which would not be so bad if you knew ahead of time that it was the only parish you would have to send a check for that item. Indexing would also minimize the unnecessary searching if the event did not take place there and save the pages of the books from more wear and tear. On Dec 24, 2007, at 8:02 PM, Melanie Egan wrote: > I agree with you! I can't find civil marriage records for any of my > relatives married in the 1870's and 1880's. I've sent numerous > letters to > parishes and it is hard to know if they even looked or even if it > is the > right parish. I can see that they have many other things to do, > but then > perhaps the books should be allowed to be microfilmed or copied so > that the > information would be available and they wouldn't be bothered. Does > anyone > know if this type of project is possible? There is a wealth of > information > there. > > One parish that has been amazing with baptisms is Immaculate > Conception. > They have twice sent a photocopy of the baptismal records for 6 or 7 > children of the ancestors I was researching. They truly made an extra > effort which was so helpful. We didn't know many of the children > existed > because they died so young. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michelle and Kevin Cassidy" <kmct@earthlink.net> > To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 5:11 PM > Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Distance between parishes of couples > > >> >> The church does celebrate marriage as a sacrament but it understands >> that it serves a purely civil purpose as well and that the state can >> require a license or require a reporting of a marriage; for >> inheritance and other reasons. The Irish priests in Ireland were >> recording civil records of marriage with the government in 1864 and >> later. It amazes me that the priests here felt comfortable ignoring >> the state law in NY requiring them to do likewise. (Are the fines >> still in effect or has the statute of limitations run? It was $50 an >> omission until 1890 or so and then went to $100. That would add up >> especially with interest.) >> >> I especially find it annoying that since the 19th-century priests did >> not do their civic duty we have such a chore on our hands to find the >> marriage yet Fr. is annoyed with you and me and it never dawns on him >> that his predecessors are ultimately responsible and his superiors >> are doing nothing to expedite the correction. I can only imagine that >> since Chicago's older records are available through the FHL that they >> have few requests at the parish level. >> >> I will stop complaining and wait to read others tales of success with >> parish marriage searches! >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- > YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Dec 24, 2007 9:02 PM, Melanie Egan <megan@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > I can see that they have many other things to do, but then > perhaps the books should be allowed to be microfilmed or copied so that the > information would be available and they wouldn't be bothered. Does anyone > know if this type of project is possible? There is a wealth of information > there. It depends on the dioces/archdiocese, I think. The Newark (NJ) Archdiocese has allowed the LDS to film, up to just past 1900 or so (varies by parish). It was up to the parishes to decide if they wanted to participate, but luckily, in Jersey City at least, most took advantage. Considering JC has about the same number of RC churches as NYC, proportunate to their population! They also filmed the 3 (successive by date) archdiocesan cemeteries. Both the index records by surname, and plot 'occupants', by plot number. NYC seems more like Diocese of Limerick --- a real pain in the a$$ <g> BTW, my one pair of grandparents, both from Ireland, Married in NYC in 1908. I have 3 records documenting this event. NYC marriage License NYC marriage registration/certificate (both from NYC archives. They're in separate groups of films) and, the church record of the marriage. Don't know the time span covered by the License records. It doesn't include everybody, if I recall correctly. . But, I was lucky enough to get mine. <g> > > One parish that has been amazing with baptisms is Immaculate Conception. > They have twice sent a photocopy of the baptismal records for 6 or 7 > children of the ancestors I was researching. They truly made an extra > effort which was so helpful. We didn't know many of the children existed > because they died so young. > I hope you sent them a nice thank you and maybe an extra donation for their effort. Will make them more likely to do it again for somebody else. <g> Just my 2cents, Merry Christmas! Maureen in NJ