Correct, Karen. But don't forget the fact that during the 1800's the census taker probably didn't goany further than the 8th grade, and mostly less than that. He/she had to rely on spelling what they heard, whether it was correct or not. The other half of mistakes were made this way. And then there were those who were hiding members of their families or just didn't want to share with the government for whatever reasons. Genie Coats ----- Original Message ----- From: <irish-new-york-city-request@rootsweb.com> To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 3:32 AM Subject: IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 69 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Census Questions and Sometimes-Unreliable Answers (Maureen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 01:52:35 -0500 > From: "Maureen" <mcshelly2@msn.com> > Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Census Questions and Sometimes-Unreliable Answers > To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <BAY111-DAV8787D85382A5CA6241444FE000@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Ancestry.com has the full description for each census with that census. > It is very easy to skip over the small print without reading it, but it is > very important as the questions are tricky on some of them, as you say. > > In addition to this, of course, there were the enumerators who only spoke > to the neighbors or the landlord (so had all the kids' ages, the wives' > names and sometimes the occupations wrong -- I have found much of this in > my own families). > > On the 1930 Census, someone called my newly married mother-in-law Gladys > instead of Vivian, said she was 30 instead of 24, and said her husband was > a 25-year-old policeman instead of a 28-year-old attorney. So whom did > they ask? Some old folks six floors up on the other side of the apartment > building who happened to be home? > > I did field research for the Bureau of the Census for many years and I > know how easy it would be to sit at home in your easy chair and make up > the answers instead of going out night after night to catch those folks > who aren't at home during the day, for instance. Or asking neighbors. And > if I had had a few too many beers with my lunch? > > One time nearly 20 years ago I went to call on four houses that never > existed -- a community swimming pool now -- and formerly, for 200 years, > at least, an Illinois corn and alfalfa field, according to the desk > sergeant of police and the town planning and zoning department. > > When I said to my boss, "How do you like this story?" he informed me that > the last time that particular survey of households was done there was a > brand new administration in Washington determined to cut costs at the > Bureau and the researchers were paid on a "per household" basis for that > particular survey, instead of on an hourly basis, which it was felt > encouraged some waste --- and there had been a lot of instances of that > sort of thing that I had found --- including multiple families at an > address which would turn out to have been a car wash, tire factory, > supermarket, apple orchard, etc. > > The other thing I found in those days was that the dads were usually only > absolutely certain of their first child's exact age and birth date -- and > had to consult the mother on the rest of the children, for whom they had a > reasonably good idea but could not be sure. And if the mother wasn't > there ...... > > In my day we were paid by the hour, but rated monthly on minutes per > household. Would YOU drive 20 miles each way on the weekend to try to > catch that mother at home? Was it worth it? In denying your time to your > family? Your laundry? Ruining your "minutes per household" rating and > your chance for a raise? Or would you take the father's word, he -- after > all -- being "the head of the household," hmmm? > > We seeks perfection in those who are only human -- and we are indeed lucky > when we chance to find it -- but it is purely chance, remember. If it's > perfect, the enumerator probably suffered from O.C.D.! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Karen Brattesani > To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:51 PM > Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] 1850 Census > > > I am responding because I want to caution you about making assumptions > about > people's ages, or other vital information based solely on the date census > data were collected. > > I recall learning that for some US censuses, the census taker was > supposed > to ask the respondents to answer as if it was a particular date in the > past, > say Jan. 1. or Apr. 1. This leads to some quirky findings. For example, > someone who had died after that date but before the date the census data > were collected would be included in the census rolls, but an infant born > between those two dates might not be included. > > I suppose that people might not have responded according to these > instructions or the census-taker did not ask according to these > instructions, leaving lots of room for error. > > I could not find the online source where I originally learned this, and > it > may or may not apply to the 1850 census. So, I am asking if anyone > recalls > seeing this info somewhere to confirm it. Sorry to be so vague about the > source, but I know this has been discussed on other genealogy lists > before. > > -Karen > > -----Original Message----- > From: irish-new-york-city-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:irish-new-york-city-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marge > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:11 PM > To: IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY@rootsweb.com > Subject: [IRISH-NYC] 1850 Census > > Thanks for the answer. The 1850 Census for the Crane family was taken > August 13, 1850. > > Marge > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/887 - Release Date: 7/5/2007 > 1:55 PM > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY list administrator, send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY mailing list, send an email > to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 69 > **************************************************

I agree that most errors probably were due to the communication difficulties you mention. I made my post because someone was particularly interested in the date the census was taken. -Karen -----Original Message----- From: irish-new-york-city-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:irish-new-york-city-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Genie Coats Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 5:21 AM To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 69 Correct, Karen. But don't forget the fact that during the 1800's the census taker probably didn't goany further than the 8th grade, and mostly less than that. He/she had to rely on spelling what they heard, whether it was correct or not. The other half of mistakes were made this way. And then there were those who were hiding members of their families or just didn't want to share with the government for whatever reasons. Genie Coats

Does anyone know if the microfilms of the NYC Vital Records (from the 1860 - early 1900's time period) are available, without ordering and paying the $5.50/reel fee, at an LDS FHC or in any other location other than the Chambers Street Archives and Salt Lake City? I just saw that the microfilm of the Chicago Vital Records is also housed at a local FHC, so thought perhaps that is true of NYC microfilm as well. Just trying to figure out my options for the next research stage when I've exhausted the Italiangen database. I have relatives on Long Island so it would be easier if there was a location there that I could use for research on my next trip. Melanie Florida