I am sorry to have gotten us off on a tangent about records and access. I wanted to see if someone had better luck or could share a method that was more successful than my approach. There has not been much listed about specific requesting techniques that are better than others. Basically it seems it is chance that determines whether you get a response from the parish. My final two cents on this is I do agree that we do not have a right to the records as researchers. (The Department of Health may have for the marriages in the 19th Century but that is a moot point for us.) Likewise the records do belong to the Church and the pastors and archbishop are the custodians of those records. (At least we know where they are unlike so many other Christian records!) I think the archdiocese could do a better job explaining their position. From where I sit it appears that they have something that we want. Sharing that information would not use it up like sharing a cookie and eating it would. Microfilming and digitizing would cost money but not use up the information. It seems that even if a loyal Catholic left the cash in his will to microfilm all these registers and keep them with Sr. at Dunwoodie's archives, they would say no. We do not have a right to the records but I don't believe that the archdiocese has the right to keep the records from us in this manner. Given the situation in other dioceses they can't argue that they are doing this to keep the faith. It really comes down to I can't be bothered or I just don't want to and that is not very other serving but extremely selfish. I have made a resolution to refrain from requesting any Catholic records via post this year. I wish you all the best with your research. I am going to focus on completing my set of civil records available to the public and give my mind and soul a break.

Kevin: Please do give up the good fight for our records. The church may own these records, however, we, as members of the Catholic Church do have a right to information about our ancestors. Recently, I requested and received a copy of my gr. grandparents marriage record from St. Joseph's, 6th Ave. NYC. There was a mistake on the certificate, they listed him as John Behan, but, his name was John Bacon. Both John and his wife Anne Fagan were from Co. Westmeath, Ireland. I know this was my grandfather's marriage certificate because my cousins have the original marriage certificate. I guess when John Bacon stated his name the church clerk thought he said Behan and that is how they recorded it on the church register. I guess, as newly arrived immigrants, they were afraid to question the church about the mistake. By the way, the people at St. Josephs were very pleasant and told me to call back if I have any other questions. I thought that your letter was excellent. Although, some sentences could be seen as challenging to the church, your letter was right to the point and explained the position and feelings of the researcher. I would be happy to help with the project. I am sure that you would be able to enlist many, many volunteers for this undertaking. The most difficult tasks would be to get the church's permission and laying out the structure of the plan for the gathering and recording the data. Keep in good spirits and have a healthy, Happy New Year. Betty Lou Garcia New Jersey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle and Kevin Cassidy" <kmct@earthlink.net> To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 4 > > I am sorry to have gotten us off on a tangent about records and > access. I wanted to see if someone had better luck or could share a > method that was more successful than my approach. There has not been > much listed about specific requesting techniques that are better than > others. Basically it seems it is chance that determines whether you > get a response from the parish. > > My final two cents on this is I do agree that we do not have a right > to the records as researchers. (The Department of Health may have for > the marriages in the 19th Century but that is a moot point for us.) > Likewise the records do belong to the Church and the pastors and > archbishop are the custodians of those records. (At least we know > where they are unlike so many other Christian records!) > > I think the archdiocese could do a better job explaining their > position. From where I sit it appears that they have something that > we want. Sharing that information would not use it up like sharing a > cookie and eating it would. Microfilming and digitizing would cost > money but not use up the information. It seems that even if a loyal > Catholic left the cash in his will to microfilm all these registers > and keep them with Sr. at Dunwoodie's archives, they would say no. We > do not have a right to the records but I don't believe that the > archdiocese has the right to keep the records from us in this manner. > Given the situation in other dioceses they can't argue that they are > doing this to keep the faith. It really comes down to I can't be > bothered or I just don't want to and that is not very other serving > but extremely selfish. > > I have made a resolution to refrain from requesting any Catholic > records via post this year. I wish you all the best with your > research. I am going to focus on completing my set of civil records > available to the public and give my mind and soul a break. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message