So, here is how this turned out. One child, Thomas, was baptised at St. Raphael's Church on 27 Oct 1891--no other baptisms mentioned. Back to the drawing board. None of the earlier children were in St. Raphael's baptism records, so the family must have switched parishes [parish records (and existence, if I understand correctly) begin in 1886--my grandfather was born in 1888 and is not here. Their sister Anna was baptised at St. Raphael's in 1895 and was married there in 1914 [there is a notation to this effect in the margin by her baptism record]. So, I need to see what parish the family belonged to prior to 1891 if I want to find my grandfather's baptism records. I will also order birth certificates for older siblings to see the "previous births" count. One sibling was born in 1881 and then there is a long break in known births until 1885. Long by the standards of the times :) Someone along the way here told me about St. Raphael's birth records on microfilm--this was a big find: thank you! It was easy to look through this film for family names--as I call other parishes, I'll have a yes or a no reply for the name and general date that I forward to their contact person. Take care to all, and a blessed St. Patrick's Day. Cathy Michelle and Kevin Cassidy <kmct@earthlink.net> wrote: Working from knowns to unknowns we have Kate and Bryan Gaughran at 540 West 42nd Street Twins are delivered on 16 Oct 1891. Birth certificate #36644 is for a nameless child. This is not so uncommon as the doctor may not know the family that well and the parents may not have decided. (I have a family with 6 kids born between 1891-1901, 4 have birth certificates but only the 1901 has a name. The 1891, 1896 and 1898 did not. Ironically these three nameless children lived to adulthood while the 1892 and 1894 that did not have birth certificates at all and the named one in 1901 all die before they are six-months-old. They lived in this same neighborhood. The 1891 and 1892 were baptized at Holy Cross, 1894, 1896 and 1898 were baptized at St. Raphael. The 1901 was baptized at Sacred Heart.) There were five previous births and six living children. This means that there were children 1,2,3,4 and 5 when 6 was born. If 6 is the first born twin and takes a breath that is still true. One would expect that the second twin would be born momentarily and then the numbers are six previous births including the now 2 minute old baby even if he has already died and then 7 if twin 1/baby 6 is alive and 6 still living if twin 1/baby 6 has passed away. There is a chance that the doctor added wrong but the question asked was number of children born before this new baby. If none of your kids die the second number will always be higher because the new baby is not in the first part but is in the second. Babies that later die still count for number of previous births but not for number still living. Birth certificate #36820 for Charles says 6 previous children but only 4 now living. There may have been confusion but another child may have died this day as well. Highly unlikely since twins are born within moments unless something went very differently. There were no Gaughrans that died according to the 1891 death index online but that does not mean that it was not recorded. Below is the Thomas citation you mention. Dr. Molony had cared for the family before and he may have given more reliable information than Dr. Sanders. Perhaps Dr. Sanders was the only doctor they could find and Dr. Molony came around before the birth was over and delivered the second twin. If two doctors were filing the birth of twins that would nicely explain why they do not have sequential birth certificate numbers. Dr. Molony kept being their doctor as he handled the death of Thomas in 1892. Gaughran Thomas 14 m Dec 26 1892 #43826 Manhattan 1891 - 1892 People often changed the names of children. I have a birth certificate for Allan in 1890 but in the Police Census and thereafter he is Francis. I just thought though what is your basis for them being twins? Maybe Dr. Sanders delivered and reported the birth of a single child. The baby was sick or Dr. Molony came by to check on him and wanted to make sure the birth was registered and he registered it himself. One event was possibly recorded by two doctors. It is rather odd that there is no burial information. I would think either there was no second baby at all or maybe he did not die but was institutionalized. Especially by 1891 the death certificates are statistically complete. Calvary etc. would not dream of burying a kid without a death certificate by 1891. St. Raphael was just south of them at 541 West 41st Street. This is one of the few parishes that has records available through the FHL in Salt Lake City. For $5.50 you can see a microfilm of the original baptismal register yourself. You might even find other Gaughran children baptized in these records. Ellen at Holy Cross is a gem. The fee is $10 per request. Send a SASE too. There is an index so she is very quick and information is reliable. As for full notations and see if there is a notation stating Gemini in the margins. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message www.penniesforpeace.org --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.