Work from knowns to unknowns. If they were in 1860 Census try and figure out what parish and then adjacent parishes. Where id known relatives or friends live? Maybe they connected through a mutual friend or acquaintance. Don't forget about the Police Census in 1890 for Manhattan and some Bronx that survives and the 1892 Census for Kings Co. I have one couple that is hard to find. Peter Goodwin arrives in 1882 to the West 30s. He declares his intent to naturalize in 1886 and was at 604 West 37th Street. Then in 1888 when he naturalized he was at 42nd and 10th Avenue. In the 1890 Police Census he and his wife are at 546 West 46th Street in the fall of 1890. Their first son as born at that same address in July 1891. Despite a closer church they baptize their son at Holy Cross at 329 West 42nd Street. Their second son was baptized there in 1892. The next three kids born in 1894, 1896 and 1898 are baptized at St. Raphael at 541 West 41st Street. Their sixth and final child was baptized at Sacred Heart on West 51st Street and 10th Avenue I think in 1901. In the 1900 Census the husband's age is off. Peter was 40 in 1898 on the birth certificate and then only 38 in 1901 on his death certificate. His wife's age and the three surviving children are right in the 1900 census. Says they were married 10 years in June 1900 with 5 kids born and 3 living. I know they were married by late September/early October 1890. They did not marry at Holy Cross, St. Raphael or Sacred Heart. There are other parishes in the area in Sacred Heart's care now but they were not married there either. My best bet is St. Michael on West 34th near where Peter first lived. Parish is most uncooperative one I have ever dealt with. I am leaning towards this is the place they wed and detail my working theory above. Hope this helps. On Jan 2, 2008, at 7:35 PM, Melanie Egan wrote: > All the discussion on Catholic parish records has renewed my > determination > to search out the marriage records for my gr-grandparents. Could > anyone > share the most efficient approach to finding the possible parishes > for the > time period of 1860 through 1895? I've tried the ones where the > children > were baptized but that hasn't worked. If I don't know where the > bride was > living before the marriage and I don't know the actual year, is it > completely hopeless at this point? They are not listed on the > Italian gen > website. Any suggestions appreciated. > > Melanie > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- > YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Stewartdor's list of Catholic Churches in Manhattan, is chronological order by the date of operation. This list is acording to ZIP codes> Source: http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Worship/Manh.Catholic.zip.html Stewartdor@aol.com writes: > > Date > Estab ZIP Name Address -- All Phones are Area Code: (212) > ---- ----- ---- ------- -------- > 1785 10007 St. Peter 16 Barclay St 233-8355 > 1809 10012 St. Patrick's Cathedral (Old) 263 Mulberry St 226-8075 > 1826 10002 St. Mary (1) 28 Attorney St 674-3266 > 1827 10013 Transfiguration 29 Mott St 962-5157 > 1827 10038 St. James 23 Oliver St 233-0161 > 1829 10014 St. Joseph (1) 371 Sixth Ave 741-1274 > 1833 10009 St. Nicholas (German) * 125 E 2nd St xxx-xxxx > Contact Most Holy Redeemer > 1834 10035 St. Paul 113 E 117th St 534-4422 > 1840 10001 St. John the Baptist (German) 210 W 31st St 564-9070 > 1840 10002 St. Vincent de Paul (moved) 26 Canal St xxx-xxxx > 1840 10011 St. Vincent de Paul (French) 116 W 24th St 243-4727 > 1840 10022 St. John the Evangelist 348 E 55th St 753-8418 > 1840 10022 St. John the Evangelist (moved) E 50th n. Fifth Ave xxx-xxxx > 1842 10003 Nativity 44 Second Ave 674-8590 > 1842 10007 St. Andrew 20 Cardinal Hayes Pl 962-3972 > 1844 10001 St. Francis of Assisi (German) 135 W 31st St 736-8500 > 1844 10009 Most Holy Redeemer (German) 173 E 3rd St 673-4224 > 1845 10001 St. Columba 343 W 25th St 807-8876 > 1847 10011 St. Francis Xavier 55 W 15th St 627-2100 > 1847 10013 St. Alphonsus (German) (moved) * 10 Thompson St xxx-xxxx Contact > St Anthony of Padua > 1847 10013 St. Alphonsus (German) * 308 West Broadway xxx-xxxx Contact St > Anthony of Padua > 1848 10009 St. Brigid 119 Avenue B 228-5400 > 1848 10016 St. Stephen 142 E 29th St 683-1675 > 1851 10028 St. Ignatius Loyola 980 Park Ave 288-3588 > 1852 10003 St. Ann (1) (Irish, now Armenian) 110 E 12th St 477-2030 > 1852 10036 Holy Cross (1) 329 W 42nd St 246-4732 > 1853 10027 Annunciation 88 Convent Ave 234-1919 > 1855 10009 Immaculate Conception 414 E 14th St 254-0200 > 1857 10001 St. Michael 424 W 34th St 563-2575 > 1858 10017 St. Boniface (German) * 882 Second Ave (E 47) xxx-xxxx Contact > Holy Family > 1858 10019 Assumption (German) * 427 W 49th St xxx-xxxx > Contact Sacred Heart of Jesus > 1858 10019 St. Paul the Apostle 415 W 59th St 265-3209 > 1859 10012 St. Anthony of Padua (Italian) 154 Sullivan St 777-2755 > 1860 10027 St. Joseph of the Holy Family(Ger) 405 W 125th St 662-9125 > 1863 10002 St. Teresa 141 Henry St 233-0233 > 1866 10018 Holy Innocents 128 W 37th St 279-5861 > 1867 10002 Our Lady of Sorrows 213 Stanton St 673-0900 > 1867 10016 St. Gabriel * 179 E 36rd St xxx-xxxx > Contact Sacred Hearts of Jesus & Mary > 1867 10021 St. Vincent Ferrer 869 Lexington Ave 744-2080 > 1868 10002 St. Rose * 42 Cannon St xxx-xxxx > Contact St Mary (1) > 1868 10010 Epiphany 239 E 21st St 475-1966 > 1868 10014 St. Bernard 328 W 14th St 243-0625 > 1868 10025 Holy Name of Jesus 207 W 96th St 749-0276 > 1869 10033 St. Elizabeth 268 Wadsworth Ave 568-8803 > 1872 10009 St. Stanislaus B.M. (Polish) 101 E 7th St 475-4576 > 1873 10009 St. Mary Magdalen (German) * 527 E 17th St xxx-xxxx Contact > Immaculate Conception > 1873 10017 St. Agnes 143 E 43rd St 682-5722 > 1873 10029 St. Cecilia 125 E 105th St 534-1350 > 1873 10128 St. Joseph (2) 404 E 87th St 289-6030 > 1876 10019 Sacred Heart of Jesus 457 W 51st St 265-5020 > 1879 10021 St. Monica 413 E 79th St 288-6250 > 1879 10022 St. Patrick's Cathedral 460 Madison Ave 753-2261 > 1880 10016 St. Leo * 11 E 28th St xxx-xxxx > Contact St Stephen > 1880 10035 All Saints 47 E 129th St 534-3535 > 1882 10021 St. Jean Baptiste (French) 184 E 76th St 288-5082 > 1883 10004 Our Lady of the Rosary 7 State St 269-6865 > 1883 10012 St. Benedict the Moor (moved 1898) 210 Bleeker St xxx-xxxx > 1883 10019 St. Benedict the Moor 340 W 53rd St 586-8462 > 1884 10029 Our Lady of Mount Carmel (Italian) 448 E 116th St 534-0681 > 1884 10035 Holy Rosary 444 E 119th St 534-0740 > 1886 10028 Our Lady of Good Counsel 230 E 90th St 289-1742 > 1886 10029 Our Lady Queen of Angels 226 E 113th St 534-6218 > 1886 10036 St. Raphael (Italian) 502 W 41st St 563-3395 > 1887 10014 St. Veronica 657 Washington St 924-5628 > 1887 10021 Our Lady of Perpetual Help (Bohem.) * 323 E 61st St xxx-xxxx > Contact Our Lady of Peace > 1887 10023 Blessed Sacrament 152 W 71st St 877-3111 > 1887 10031 St. Catherine of Genoa 506 W 153rd St 862-6130 > 1888 10002 St. Joachim (Italian) * Monroe & Catherine xxx-xxxx Contact St > Joseph (3) > 1888 10011 Guardian Angel 193 Tenth Ave 929-5966 > 1888 10014 St. Charles Borromeo (moved) 154 Carmine St xxx-xxxx > 1888 10030 St. Charles Borromeo 211 W 141st St 281-2100 > 1889 10016 Our Lady of the Scapular (Span.) * 339 E 28th St 683-2592 > Contact > St Stephen > 1889 10026 St. Thomas the Apostle 262 W 118th St 662-2693 > 1891 10009 St. Elizabeth of Hungary (moved) 345 E 4th St xxx-xxxx > 1891 10012 Our Lady of Loreto (Sicilian) 303 Elizabeth St 431-9840 > 1891 10013 Most Precious Blood (Italian) 109 Mulberry St 226-6427 > 1891 10028 St. Elizabeth of Hungary (Slovak) 211 E 83rd St 734-5747 > 1892 10014 Our Lady of Pompeii (Italian) 25 Carmine St 989-6805 > 1894 10028 St. Francis de Sales 135 E 96th St 289-0425 > 1895 10021 St. John Nepomucene (Slovak) 411 E 66th St 734-4613 > 1895 10025 Ascension 221 W 107th St 222-0666 > > > ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Ditto and thank you Mary Anne. I have received sacramental copies from every Manhattan Roman Catholic parish that had them. If one told me no records, I wrote to another parish using the list of Catholic churches by matching my know address with a zip code. How do I do this? Keeping it simple. l) Phone ahead before submitting a written request. 2) Be courteous to the person you speak with and ask them to spell their name. Some of the searchers are not native speakers of English or are volunteers. Ask about donations. Ask who you should address your request to. 3) Write a simple, typed business style letter, including your home phone number beneath where you sign. 4) Include the 5 "W"s :who, what, when, where, why 5) Offer alternative spellings of names, dates, etc Most searchers seek exactly what you ask for, and that includes the NYC Municipal Archives, & computers. 6) Limit sentences. Make small lists: name, sacrament, date etc. 7) Enclose a SASE. If they don't suggest an exact donation, ask if $5. is sufficient per look up. You can even compose a form letter on yourcomputer and copy it and add specific changes each time. It's a new year. Let's quit kibitzing and go for it! BMcK gothic@acd.net writes: > Golly folks. What does it really matter in the long run? What you believe > is > what you believe. And we are talking DEAD PEOPLE here. All else is > irrelevent. Thank the Lord that Mormons have taken it upon themselves > because of their beliefs to make sure that so many records have been saved. > Without Family History Centers and wonderful Mormon volunteers I would not > have found so many of my ancestors over the past 30+ years. > > Can we really leave this topic now and get on with things that are really > important? > > > Mary Anne, an Irish Roman Catholic with Mormon relatives ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Did you try stevemorse.org? Scan down for marriage records. > Hi Kevin > I wood for ever be indebited to ,My grandparents ( Thomas Ahern ,Julia A > Hussey were married between 1890 and 1895 ) have searched for years but > because I don't know exact date ,paid but have never been succesful . > > Carl Ahern ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Regarding Irish Catholic marriages in the Hell's Kitchen vicinity: does anyone know where else these couples could have been married? I am trying to locate a marriage somewhere between 1868 and 1871--it is not on Italiangen.org's database. Holy Cross was established to serve the Irish community in its neighborhood, it seems, so it surprises me that KMCT, below, could not find a record there. Cathy Michelle and Kevin Cassidy <kmct@earthlink.net> wrote: They did not marry at Holy Cross, St. Raphael or Sacred Heart. There are other parishes in the area in Sacred Heart's care now but they were not married there either. My best bet is St. Michael on West 34th near where Peter first lived. Parish is most uncooperative one I have ever dealt with. I am leaning towards this is the place they wed and detail my working theory above. Hope this helps. www.penniesforpeace.org --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Just sent an e-mail with a list of Catholic Parishes in NYC that were open during the years 1860 - 1895. Good luck with your search. Dorothy **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Date Estab ZIP Name Address -- All Phones are Area Code: (212) ---- ----- ---- ------- -------- 1785 10007 St. Peter 16 Barclay St 233-8355 1809 10012 St. Patrick's Cathedral (Old) 263 Mulberry St 226-8075 1826 10002 St. Mary (1) 28 Attorney St 674-3266 1827 10013 Transfiguration 29 Mott St 962-5157 1827 10038 St. James 23 Oliver St 233-0161 1829 10014 St. Joseph (1) 371 Sixth Ave 741-1274 1833 10009 St. Nicholas (German) * 125 E 2nd St xxx-xxxx Contact Most Holy Redeemer 1834 10035 St. Paul 113 E 117th St 534-4422 1840 10001 St. John the Baptist (German) 210 W 31st St 564-9070 1840 10002 St. Vincent de Paul (moved) 26 Canal St xxx-xxxx 1840 10011 St. Vincent de Paul (French) 116 W 24th St 243-4727 1840 10022 St. John the Evangelist 348 E 55th St 753-8418 1840 10022 St. John the Evangelist (moved) E 50th n. Fifth Ave xxx-xxxx 1842 10003 Nativity 44 Second Ave 674-8590 1842 10007 St. Andrew 20 Cardinal Hayes Pl 962-3972 1844 10001 St. Francis of Assisi (German) 135 W 31st St 736-8500 1844 10009 Most Holy Redeemer (German) 173 E 3rd St 673-4224 1845 10001 St. Columba 343 W 25th St 807-8876 1847 10011 St. Francis Xavier 55 W 15th St 627-2100 1847 10013 St. Alphonsus (German) (moved) * 10 Thompson St xxx-xxxx Contact St Anthony of Padua 1847 10013 St. Alphonsus (German) * 308 West Broadway xxx-xxxx Contact St Anthony of Padua 1848 10009 St. Brigid 119 Avenue B 228-5400 1848 10016 St. Stephen 142 E 29th St 683-1675 1851 10028 St. Ignatius Loyola 980 Park Ave 288-3588 1852 10003 St. Ann (1) (Irish, now Armenian) 110 E 12th St 477-2030 1852 10036 Holy Cross (1) 329 W 42nd St 246-4732 1853 10027 Annunciation 88 Convent Ave 234-1919 1855 10009 Immaculate Conception 414 E 14th St 254-0200 1857 10001 St. Michael 424 W 34th St 563-2575 1858 10017 St. Boniface (German) * 882 Second Ave (E 47) xxx-xxxx Contact Holy Family 1858 10019 Assumption (German) * 427 W 49th St xxx-xxxx Contact Sacred Heart of Jesus 1858 10019 St. Paul the Apostle 415 W 59th St 265-3209 1859 10012 St. Anthony of Padua (Italian) 154 Sullivan St 777-2755 1860 10027 St. Joseph of the Holy Family(Ger) 405 W 125th St 662-9125 1863 10002 St. Teresa 141 Henry St 233-0233 1866 10018 Holy Innocents 128 W 37th St 279-5861 1867 10002 Our Lady of Sorrows 213 Stanton St 673-0900 1867 10016 St. Gabriel * 179 E 36rd St xxx-xxxx Contact Sacred Hearts of Jesus & Mary 1867 10021 St. Vincent Ferrer 869 Lexington Ave 744-2080 1868 10002 St. Rose * 42 Cannon St xxx-xxxx Contact St Mary (1) 1868 10010 Epiphany 239 E 21st St 475-1966 1868 10014 St. Bernard 328 W 14th St 243-0625 1868 10025 Holy Name of Jesus 207 W 96th St 749-0276 1869 10033 St. Elizabeth 268 Wadsworth Ave 568-8803 1872 10009 St. Stanislaus B.M. (Polish) 101 E 7th St 475-4576 1873 10009 St. Mary Magdalen (German) * 527 E 17th St xxx-xxxx Contact Immaculate Conception 1873 10017 St. Agnes 143 E 43rd St 682-5722 1873 10029 St. Cecilia 125 E 105th St 534-1350 1873 10128 St. Joseph (2) 404 E 87th St 289-6030 1876 10019 Sacred Heart of Jesus 457 W 51st St 265-5020 1879 10021 St. Monica 413 E 79th St 288-6250 1879 10022 St. Patrick's Cathedral 460 Madison Ave 753-2261 1880 10016 St. Leo * 11 E 28th St xxx-xxxx Contact St Stephen 1880 10035 All Saints 47 E 129th St 534-3535 1882 10021 St. Jean Baptiste (French) 184 E 76th St 288-5082 1883 10004 Our Lady of the Rosary 7 State St 269-6865 1883 10012 St. Benedict the Moor (moved 1898) 210 Bleeker St xxx-xxxx 1883 10019 St. Benedict the Moor 340 W 53rd St 586-8462 1884 10029 Our Lady of Mount Carmel (Italian) 448 E 116th St 534-0681 1884 10035 Holy Rosary 444 E 119th St 534-0740 1886 10028 Our Lady of Good Counsel 230 E 90th St 289-1742 1886 10029 Our Lady Queen of Angels 226 E 113th St 534-6218 1886 10036 St. Raphael (Italian) 502 W 41st St 563-3395 1887 10014 St. Veronica 657 Washington St 924-5628 1887 10021 Our Lady of Perpetual Help (Bohem.) * 323 E 61st St xxx-xxxx Contact Our Lady of Peace 1887 10023 Blessed Sacrament 152 W 71st St 877-3111 1887 10031 St. Catherine of Genoa 506 W 153rd St 862-6130 1888 10002 St. Joachim (Italian) * Monroe & Catherine xxx-xxxx Contact St Joseph (3) 1888 10011 Guardian Angel 193 Tenth Ave 929-5966 1888 10014 St. Charles Borromeo (moved) 154 Carmine St xxx-xxxx 1888 10030 St. Charles Borromeo 211 W 141st St 281-2100 1889 10016 Our Lady of the Scapular (Span.) * 339 E 28th St 683-2592 Contact St Stephen 1889 10026 St. Thomas the Apostle 262 W 118th St 662-2693 1891 10009 St. Elizabeth of Hungary (moved) 345 E 4th St xxx-xxxx 1891 10012 Our Lady of Loreto (Sicilian) 303 Elizabeth St 431-9840 1891 10013 Most Precious Blood (Italian) 109 Mulberry St 226-6427 1891 10028 St. Elizabeth of Hungary (Slovak) 211 E 83rd St 734-5747 1892 10014 Our Lady of Pompeii (Italian) 25 Carmine St 989-6805 1894 10028 St. Francis de Sales 135 E 96th St 289-0425 1895 10021 St. John Nepomucene (Slovak) 411 E 66th St 734-4613 1895 10025 Ascension 221 W 107th St 222-0666 **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

All the discussion on Catholic parish records has renewed my determination to search out the marriage records for my gr-grandparents. Could anyone share the most efficient approach to finding the possible parishes for the time period of 1860 through 1895? I've tried the ones where the children were baptized but that hasn't worked. If I don't know where the bride was living before the marriage and I don't know the actual year, is it completely hopeless at this point? They are not listed on the Italian gen website. Any suggestions appreciated. Melanie

Please forgive all the ? .? I am using my son's laptop which does strange things.? Thanks, Bev W -----Original Message----- From: user917826@aol.com To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 8:02 pm Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] LDS Re-Baptizing Hi.. I have met several folks of all denominations who have worked in the Family History Centers. One gentleman, who has been a volunteer for years has helped me with my Italian ancestors.? I am sure he is Roman Catholic.? Certainly, the generosity in sharing this information has to be acknowledged.? It seems to me that no one's "faith" is compromised? (because?one's commitment to one's faith cannot be compromised if it is genuine)?and thus, it has been foolish not to allow records to be collected. But, this is unfortunately what has happened in Ireland and elsewhere.? We can only hope that those who hold the records of our ancestors will have some regard for our need to connect and begin to find ways to make information accessible! Bev W -----Original Message----- From: Irishcolleen45@aol.com To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 7:35 pm Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] LDS Re-Baptizing Maureen, I cannot speak about other people's ancestors and what was done. I just was asking about my grandfather and what a particular marking indicated in the file. I thanked the person at the LDS library (in Salt Lake City) for her help and started doing my own research. As I mentioned earlier, no one was searching for my grandfather until I came along. The FHC I used in Emerson NJ had mostly non-Mormons doing research. In fact, one was a retired Catholic priest who was researching. Nora In a message dated 1/2/2008 7:23:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _mcshelly2@msn.com_ (mailto:mcshelly2@msn.com) writes: In other words, they just rebaptized everyone on the films? Hmmm. That's pretty arrogant and amazing, isn't it? We were told when our genealogy instructor took us to the Family History Center the first time for a tour that the members place their ancestors' names in a special box or vault in the Temple for re-baptizing and that is why they have to do their family histories. At our FHC it is always full of church members doing their research .... If they were all rebaptized AUTOMATICALLY, it doesn't seem to make any sense, then, that the LDS would have spent all the time, effort and money to create all those Family History Centers and the online research site and so forth. Does it? I'm fully open to any answer -- not being Mormon -- but I wonder if they meant it is the Church that does the actual baptizing after the person has found his ancestor? And it is the Church that has put its members' family histories into the IGI? In my own faith, for instance, any baptized Christian can baptize -- and I baptized my preemie daughter ASAP after birth in the hospital -- then had her baptized again later at my Church, for the record. But the first baptism was "real." Did the person answering your question mean all the people on all the films were automatically re-baptized? Or maybe that after an ancestor is found, the member of the Mormon faith does not and can not, under their rules, re-baptize his own ancestor ..... but ONLY THE CHURCH can do that act or ceremony of re-baptizing? M. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Hi.. I have met several folks of all denominations who have worked in the Family History Centers. One gentleman, who has been a volunteer for years has helped me with my Italian ancestors.? I am sure he is Roman Catholic.? Certainly, the generosity in sharing this information has to be acknowledged.? It seems to me that no one's "faith" is compromised? (because?one's commitment to one's faith cannot be compromised if it is genuine)?and thus, it has been foolish not to allow records to be collected. But, this is unfortunately what has happened in Ireland and elsewhere.? We can only hope that those who hold the records of our ancestors will have some regard for our need to connect and begin to find ways to make information accessible! Bev W -----Original Message----- From: Irishcolleen45@aol.com To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 7:35 pm Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] LDS Re-Baptizing Maureen, I cannot speak about other people's ancestors and what was done. I just was asking about my grandfather and what a particular marking indicated in the file. I thanked the person at the LDS library (in Salt Lake City) for her help and started doing my own research. As I mentioned earlier, no one was searching for my grandfather until I came along. The FHC I used in Emerson NJ had mostly non-Mormons doing research. In fact, one was a retired Catholic priest who was researching. Nora In a message dated 1/2/2008 7:23:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _mcshelly2@msn.com_ (mailto:mcshelly2@msn.com) writes: In other words, they just rebaptized everyone on the films? Hmmm. That's pretty arrogant and amazing, isn't it? We were told when our genealogy instructor took us to the Family History Center the first time for a tour that the members place their ancestors' names in a special box or vault in the Temple for re-baptizing and that is why they have to do their family histories. At our FHC it is always full of church members doing their research .... If they were all rebaptized AUTOMATICALLY, it doesn't seem to make any sense, then, that the LDS would have spent all the time, effort and money to create all those Family History Centers and the online research site and so forth. Does it? I'm fully open to any answer -- not being Mormon -- but I wonder if they meant it is the Church that does the actual baptizing after the person has found his ancestor? And it is the Church that has put its members' family histories into the IGI? In my own faith, for instance, any baptized Christian can baptize -- and I baptized my preemie daughter ASAP after birth in the hospital -- then had her baptized again later at my Church, for the record. But the first baptism was "real." Did the person answering your question mean all the people on all the films were automatically re-baptized? Or maybe that after an ancestor is found, the member of the Mormon faith does not and can not, under their rules, re-baptize his own ancestor ..... but ONLY THE CHURCH can do that act or ceremony of re-baptizing? M. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Maureen, I cannot speak about other people's ancestors and what was done. I just was asking about my grandfather and what a particular marking indicated in the file. I thanked the person at the LDS library (in Salt Lake City) for her help and started doing my own research. As I mentioned earlier, no one was searching for my grandfather until I came along. The FHC I used in Emerson NJ had mostly non-Mormons doing research. In fact, one was a retired Catholic priest who was researching. Nora In a message dated 1/2/2008 7:23:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _mcshelly2@msn.com_ (mailto:mcshelly2@msn.com) writes: In other words, they just rebaptized everyone on the films? Hmmm. That's pretty arrogant and amazing, isn't it? We were told when our genealogy instructor took us to the Family History Center the first time for a tour that the members place their ancestors' names in a special box or vault in the Temple for re-baptizing and that is why they have to do their family histories. At our FHC it is always full of church members doing their research .... If they were all rebaptized AUTOMATICALLY, it doesn't seem to make any sense, then, that the LDS would have spent all the time, effort and money to create all those Family History Centers and the online research site and so forth. Does it? I'm fully open to any answer -- not being Mormon -- but I wonder if they meant it is the Church that does the actual baptizing after the person has found his ancestor? And it is the Church that has put its members' family histories into the IGI? In my own faith, for instance, any baptized Christian can baptize -- and I baptized my preemie daughter ASAP after birth in the hospital -- then had her baptized again later at my Church, for the record. But the first baptism was "real." Did the person answering your question mean all the people on all the films were automatically re-baptized? Or maybe that after an ancestor is found, the member of the Mormon faith does not and can not, under their rules, re-baptize his own ancestor ..... but ONLY THE CHURCH can do that act or ceremony of re-baptizing? M. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

AMEN!> From: gothic@acd.net> To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:19:08 -0500> Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] LDS Re-Baptizing> > Golly folks. What does it really matter in the long run? What you believe is > what you believe. And we are talking DEAD PEOPLE here. All else is > irrelevent. Thank the Lord that Mormons have taken it upon themselves > because of their beliefs to make sure that so many records have been saved. > Without Family History Centers and wonderful Mormon volunteers I would not > have found so many of my ancestors over the past 30+ years.> > Can we really leave this topic now and get on with things that are really > important?> > > Mary Anne, an Irish Roman Catholic with Mormon relatives > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007

AMEN! > From: gothic@acd.net > To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 19:19:08 -0500 > Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] LDS Re-Baptizing > > Golly folks. What does it really matter in the long run? What you believe is > what you believe. And we are talking DEAD PEOPLE here. All else is > irrelevent. Thank the Lord that Mormons have taken it upon themselves > because of their beliefs to make sure that so many records have been saved. > Without Family History Centers and wonderful Mormon volunteers I would not > have found so many of my ancestors over the past 30+ years. > > Can we really leave this topic now and get on with things that are really > important? > > > Mary Anne, an Irish Roman Catholic with Mormon relatives > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec

Golly folks. What does it really matter in the long run? What you believe is what you believe. And we are talking DEAD PEOPLE here. All else is irrelevent. Thank the Lord that Mormons have taken it upon themselves because of their beliefs to make sure that so many records have been saved. Without Family History Centers and wonderful Mormon volunteers I would not have found so many of my ancestors over the past 30+ years. Can we really leave this topic now and get on with things that are really important? Mary Anne, an Irish Roman Catholic with Mormon relatives

In other words, they just rebaptized everyone on the films? Hmmm. That's pretty arrogant and amazing, isn't it? We were told when our genealogy instructor took us to the Family History Center the first time for a tour that the members place their ancestors' names in a special box or vault in the Temple for re-baptizing and that is why they have to do their family histories. At our FHC it is always full of church members doing their research .... If they were all rebaptized AUTOMATICALLY, it doesn't seem to make any sense, then, that the LDS would have spent all the time, effort and money to create all those Family History Centers and the online research site and so forth. Does it? I'm fully open to any answer -- not being Mormon -- but I wonder if they meant it is the Church that does the actual baptizing after the person has found his ancestor? And it is the Church that has put its members' family histories into the IGI? In my own faith, for instance, any baptized Christian can baptize -- and I baptized my preemie daughter ASAP after birth in the hospital -- then had her baptized again later at my Church, for the record. But the first baptism was "real." Did the person answering your question mean all the people on all the films were automatically re-baptized? Or maybe that after an ancestor is found, the member of the Mormon faith does not and can not, under their rules, re-baptize his own ancestor ..... but ONLY THE CHURCH can do that act or ceremony of re-baptizing? M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Irishcolleen45@aol.com To: irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] CHURCH RECORDS Maureen, My grandfather was re baptized by the Mormons when his record was included in the index. I specially asked if there was an ancestor that did that (at the time I was early in my research and was looking for his siblings in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) and I was told it was the Mormon Church that had done that, no ancestor. Nora Hopkins FitzGerald Hopkins - Castlebar, Co. Mayo/New York City Grant - Drumboniff, Co. Down/NYC In a message dated 1/2/2008 3:20:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _mcshelly2@msn.com_ (mailto:mcshelly2@msn.com) writes: ....... Since the Mormons re baptize their ancestors when they find them, many congregations do not want the Mormons to have films of their records. And among those are some Roman Catholic churches. It is their choice, they are the owners. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Kevin - I have no idea where my great grandparents might have married, but they married probably in 1892 as their first child was born in Dec. 1893. My Great Grandparents were Thomas Quinn and Rose Emma Agnes Ryan - she hate the name Rose and went by Emma, so she might be married under either given name. Thank you. Georgia Evans Message: 8 Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 10:20:33 -0600 From: Michelle and Kevin Cassidy <kmct@earthlink.net> Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Marriage records at St. Raphael To: iriSH-NEW-YORK-CITY@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <B7A0A993-729A-478E-95A3-C8C81310B932@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Happy New Year I would be willing to search my xerox records from the FHL. If you have a marriage between September 1886- the end of 1908, send me the names and I can tell you if they married there. Kevin

Maureen, My grandfather was re baptized by the Mormons when his record was included in the index. I specially asked if there was an ancestor that did that (at the time I was early in my research and was looking for his siblings in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) and I was told it was the Mormon Church that had done that, no ancestor. Nora Hopkins FitzGerald Hopkins - Castlebar, Co. Mayo/New York City Grant - Drumboniff, Co. Down/NYC In a message dated 1/2/2008 3:20:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _mcshelly2@msn.com_ (mailto:mcshelly2@msn.com) writes: ....... Since the Mormons re baptize their ancestors when they find them, many congregations do not want the Mormons to have films of their records. And among those are some Roman Catholic churches. It is their choice, they are the owners. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Hi Kevin I wood for ever be indebited to ,My grandparents ( Thomas Ahern ,Julia A Hussey were married between 1890 and 1895 ) have searched for years but because I don't know exact date ,paid but have never been succesful . Carl Ahern cajo1@shaw.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle and Kevin Cassidy" <kmct@earthlink.net> To: <iriSH-NEW-YORK-CITY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 8:20 AM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Marriage records at St. Raphael > Happy New Year > > I would be willing to search my xerox records from the FHL. If you > have a marriage between September 1886- the end of 1908, send me the > names and I can tell you if they married there. > > Kevin > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kevin: Please do give up the good fight for our records. The church may own these records, however, we, as members of the Catholic Church do have a right to information about our ancestors. Recently, I requested and received a copy of my gr. grandparents marriage record from St. Joseph's, 6th Ave. NYC. There was a mistake on the certificate, they listed him as John Behan, but, his name was John Bacon. Both John and his wife Anne Fagan were from Co. Westmeath, Ireland. I know this was my grandfather's marriage certificate because my cousins have the original marriage certificate. I guess when John Bacon stated his name the church clerk thought he said Behan and that is how they recorded it on the church register. I guess, as newly arrived immigrants, they were afraid to question the church about the mistake. By the way, the people at St. Josephs were very pleasant and told me to call back if I have any other questions. I thought that your letter was excellent. Although, some sentences could be seen as challenging to the church, your letter was right to the point and explained the position and feelings of the researcher. I would be happy to help with the project. I am sure that you would be able to enlist many, many volunteers for this undertaking. The most difficult tasks would be to get the church's permission and laying out the structure of the plan for the gathering and recording the data. Keep in good spirits and have a healthy, Happy New Year. Betty Lou Garcia New Jersey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle and Kevin Cassidy" <kmct@earthlink.net> To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 4 > > I am sorry to have gotten us off on a tangent about records and > access. I wanted to see if someone had better luck or could share a > method that was more successful than my approach. There has not been > much listed about specific requesting techniques that are better than > others. Basically it seems it is chance that determines whether you > get a response from the parish. > > My final two cents on this is I do agree that we do not have a right > to the records as researchers. (The Department of Health may have for > the marriages in the 19th Century but that is a moot point for us.) > Likewise the records do belong to the Church and the pastors and > archbishop are the custodians of those records. (At least we know > where they are unlike so many other Christian records!) > > I think the archdiocese could do a better job explaining their > position. From where I sit it appears that they have something that > we want. Sharing that information would not use it up like sharing a > cookie and eating it would. Microfilming and digitizing would cost > money but not use up the information. It seems that even if a loyal > Catholic left the cash in his will to microfilm all these registers > and keep them with Sr. at Dunwoodie's archives, they would say no. We > do not have a right to the records but I don't believe that the > archdiocese has the right to keep the records from us in this manner. > Given the situation in other dioceses they can't argue that they are > doing this to keep the faith. It really comes down to I can't be > bothered or I just don't want to and that is not very other serving > but extremely selfish. > > I have made a resolution to refrain from requesting any Catholic > records via post this year. I wish you all the best with your > research. I am going to focus on completing my set of civil records > available to the public and give my mind and soul a break. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am sorry to have gotten us off on a tangent about records and access. I wanted to see if someone had better luck or could share a method that was more successful than my approach. There has not been much listed about specific requesting techniques that are better than others. Basically it seems it is chance that determines whether you get a response from the parish. My final two cents on this is I do agree that we do not have a right to the records as researchers. (The Department of Health may have for the marriages in the 19th Century but that is a moot point for us.) Likewise the records do belong to the Church and the pastors and archbishop are the custodians of those records. (At least we know where they are unlike so many other Christian records!) I think the archdiocese could do a better job explaining their position. From where I sit it appears that they have something that we want. Sharing that information would not use it up like sharing a cookie and eating it would. Microfilming and digitizing would cost money but not use up the information. It seems that even if a loyal Catholic left the cash in his will to microfilm all these registers and keep them with Sr. at Dunwoodie's archives, they would say no. We do not have a right to the records but I don't believe that the archdiocese has the right to keep the records from us in this manner. Given the situation in other dioceses they can't argue that they are doing this to keep the faith. It really comes down to I can't be bothered or I just don't want to and that is not very other serving but extremely selfish. I have made a resolution to refrain from requesting any Catholic records via post this year. I wish you all the best with your research. I am going to focus on completing my set of civil records available to the public and give my mind and soul a break.