Hi, I would like to thank you for this information. How do you get Heritage Quest? Is it only for libraries? I phoned our library and they don't even know what it is and they have a Genealogy department. Their Genealogy department was actually started by my best friend's Aunt but it is useless to me since it is all about Ontario and specifically Waterloo Region history. I was checking on-line and it seems that you cannot access Heritage Quest unless you are lucky enough to have your local library subscribe to it. Is this correct? I would appreciate it if you could send me a copy of the entry below for Hugh Leonards. I actually have 3 addresses for James Leonard. 1st his ship list in 1906 says he is going to his brother Johns at 3319 Third Ave, NY, NY In 1913 my grandfather, Hugh, says he is going to his brother James at 784 Amsterdam Ave, NY, NY In 1918, for the draft, James says he is living at 752 Columbia Ave, NY, NY. I don't have a map of NY so I don't really know where any of these adresses are. Regards Pauline ******************************************************************** This is from Heritage Quest. He is single and living as a boarder with a Thos. and Michl. Leonards. I know the names don't match but it is on the west side where James Leonard appeared to live in 1913 according to the ship manifest. LEONARDS HUGH 35 M W IREL NY NEW YORK MANHATTAN 1920

In a message dated 1/28/2008 3:21:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, irish-new-york-city-request@rootsweb.com writes: > As for the link to Ancestry, no I do not have Ancestry. I would need to get > the most expensive subscription since I was born in Ireland. Most Americans > just need to get the US part which is the cheapest subscription. I have > spent years just getting to the point of trying to find the missing NY part > of the family. > > I have checked out Ancestry at times when it has been free and others have > tried to find Hugh LEONARD in the census but I never seem to find anyone > that I could actually say that was him. If I remember correctly they were > all married and how could he have been married in the US and then go back to > Belfast and marry my grandmother in the Catholic Church? > > Thank you for your reply. > Pauline > Pauline. I too was born in Ireland and lived there until adulthood but that has not diminished the value to my research that Ancestry.com (and other subscription services at times) have proved to be in researching earlier generations of relatives who moved to the US! Success in Genealogy is usually the result of making carefully considered ,logical and painstaking deductions based on many individual items of information. Huge presumptions such as yours as to what "most American researchers", " just need" don't often produce results! Census records when found are not always correct and it is unlikely that any individual could be identified as "Definitely" the man you are seeking from just a single census entry. Each possible match would need to be tracked through every available census applicable to the years he was in the US and beyond! If you have previously searched (or especially if you have asked a volunteer to search) certain records it is helpful to include that in any request to avoid the volunteer researching the same documents again and of course it goes without saying you have kept detailed records of every unsuccessful search and are not relying solely on "recollection" in successive efforts. Because someone is identified as married on a census record doesn't mean they actually were at that time or ever! Perhaps he was widowed or divorced before his return to Ireland.Even if currently and legally married in the US, he could indeed still have married in the catholic church if his first marriage was one not recognized by that church in that era! Presuming he was single while in the US on the basis of his later catholic marriage in Ireland could eliminate many real possibilities. GMcC ************** Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

What are you trying to learn about Hugh Leonard? I can try to help although I only have the US Ancestry.com -- www.corbyoconnor.com -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Pauline Leonard" <treehouse3@gmail.com> > corbyoconnor@comcast.net > writes: > What was your grandmother's first name? Where was your father born? In > Ireland? Did you grandfather ever leave Ireland after he married your > grandfather? > ******************************************************************************** > **************** > > > My grandfather was Hugh LEONARD. he was from Cashelbane, Co. Cavan > (closest town was Dowra) and when he returned to Ireland he went to Belfast > and married my grandmother Catherine MURRAY in Belfast. He died and is > buried in Belfast. My father was born in Belfast and so was I. > > As for the link to Ancestry, no I do not have Ancestry. I would need to get > the most expensive subscription since I was born in Ireland. Most Americans > just need to get the US part which is the cheapest subscription. I have > spent years just getting to the point of trying to find the missing NY part > of the family. > > I have checked out Ancestry at times when it has been free and others have > tried to find Hugh LEONARD in the census but I never seem to find anyone > that I could actually say that was him. If I remember correctly they were > all married and how could he have been married in the US and then go back to > Belfast and marry my grandmother in the Catholic Church? > > Thank you for your reply. > Pauline > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Michelle and Kevin, · “One event was possibly recorded by two doctors.” Thank you so much for playing devil's advocate to my thought process: that was just what I was hoping for. I have found seven of the eight children Kate mentions in the 1910 census in censuses, draft registration cards, city directories, and burial plot records. My grandfather was born before the 1891 birth/s: I think I will acquire his birth certificate now and check the sibling count in 1888! · “It is rather odd that there is no burial information. I would think either there was no second baby at all or maybe he did not die but was institutionalized. Calvary etc. would not dream of burying a kid without a death certificate by 1891.” I agree: another reason to think the two certificates are for the same child. · “St. Raphael is one of the few parishes that has records available through the FHL in Salt Lake City. For $5.50 you can see a microfilm of the original baptismal register yourself. You might even find other Gaughran children baptized in these records.” Wonderful to know: I’ll try to do this later this week; however, I asked them about my grandfather's 1888 baptism about a year and a half ago, and they did not have record of it. I was also in the process of contacting Ellen at Holy Family this week: thanks for the encouragement. Again, MANY thanks for all of the insight and information. Take care, Cathy --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

 This is from Heritage Quest. He is single and living as a boarder with a Thos. and Michl. Leonards. I know the names don't match but it is on the west side where James Leonard appeared to live in 1913 according to the ship manifest. LEONARDS HUGH 35 M W IREL NY NEW YORK MANHATTAN 1920

corbyoconnor@comcast.net writes: What was your grandmother's first name? Where was your father born? In Ireland? Did you grandfather ever leave Ireland after he married your grandfather? ************************************************************************************************ My grandfather was Hugh LEONARD. he was from Cashelbane, Co. Cavan (closest town was Dowra) and when he returned to Ireland he went to Belfast and married my grandmother Catherine MURRAY in Belfast. He died and is buried in Belfast. My father was born in Belfast and so was I. As for the link to Ancestry, no I do not have Ancestry. I would need to get the most expensive subscription since I was born in Ireland. Most Americans just need to get the US part which is the cheapest subscription. I have spent years just getting to the point of trying to find the missing NY part of the family. I have checked out Ancestry at times when it has been free and others have tried to find Hugh LEONARD in the census but I never seem to find anyone that I could actually say that was him. If I remember correctly they were all married and how could he have been married in the US and then go back to Belfast and marry my grandmother in the Catholic Church? Thank you for your reply. Pauline

He may have married and lost a wife to death before he returned to Ireland. He may have also been mistakenly recorded in a census as Leonard Hughes or the like. Good luck. On Jan 27, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Pauline Leonard wrote: > corbyoconnor@comcast.net > writes: > What was your grandmother's first name? Where was your father > born? In > Ireland? Did you grandfather ever leave Ireland after he married your > grandfather? > ********************************************************************** > ************************** > > > My grandfather was Hugh LEONARD. he was from Cashelbane, Co. Cavan > (closest town was Dowra) and when he returned to Ireland he went to > Belfast > and married my grandmother Catherine MURRAY in Belfast. He died and is > buried in Belfast. My father was born in Belfast and so was I. > > As for the link to Ancestry, no I do not have Ancestry. I would > need to get > the most expensive subscription since I was born in Ireland. Most > Americans > just need to get the US part which is the cheapest subscription. I > have > spent years just getting to the point of trying to find the missing > NY part > of the family. > > I have checked out Ancestry at times when it has been free and > others have > tried to find Hugh LEONARD in the census but I never seem to find > anyone > that I could actually say that was him. If I remember correctly > they were > all married and how could he have been married in the US and then > go back to > Belfast and marry my grandmother in the Catholic Church? > > Thank you for your reply. > Pauline > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW- > YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Try this link: http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/listview.aspx?tid=2900158&ln=L&pn=11&tt=1214&tp=13&r=100 -- www.corbyoconnor.com -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Pauline Leonard" <treehouse3@gmail.com> > Hello, > I am at a complete standstill and would appreciate some advice. > My grandfather, Hugh LEONARD, went to the US in 1913 through Ellis Island. > After that I cannot find him and quite frankly don't know where to start. He > was in America for approximately 20 years and then he returned to Ireland > where he married my grandmother in 1934. > All of his sibling also went to America. I have found them on the Ellis > Island site but know nothing of them after that either. > > John- arrived 1904 > (maybe) Peter- arrived 1903 > James- arrived 1906 > Maggie- arrived 1916 > Mary- arrived 1915 but maybe also 1906 > Hugh (my granfather)- arrived 1913 > Biddy (Bridget)- rrived 1911 > Annie- arrived 1910 > Owen- arrived 1915 > Kate- arrived 1920 > > Owen, Kate and Mary went to Chicago and the rest all stayed in NY as far as > I know. I actually did find (throught the Chicago Tribune Historical > Archives) living daughters of Mary LEONARD in Chicago. They wanted nothing > to do with me and one of them actually hung up on me so they were no help. I > was extremely disappointed in them since they are my father's first cousins > and could have been so helpful but I also have a lot of information for them > about their mother and their father. > > I don't know where to start. I know almost nothing about this side of the > family. My Aunt says that her father was a quite man and never told them > anything about his family. He died when my father was 10 so the children > were all too young to ever learn anything about his family. > > I would appreciate any suggestions. > Thank you > Pauline Leonard > Ontario > Canada > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What was your grandmother's first name? Where was your father born? In Ireland? Did you grandfather ever leave Ireland after he married your grandfather? -- www.corbyoconnor.com -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Pauline Leonard" <treehouse3@gmail.com> > Hello, > I am at a complete standstill and would appreciate some advice. > My grandfather, Hugh LEONARD, went to the US in 1913 through Ellis Island. > After that I cannot find him and quite frankly don't know where to start. He > was in America for approximately 20 years and then he returned to Ireland > where he married my grandmother in 1934. > All of his sibling also went to America. I have found them on the Ellis > Island site but know nothing of them after that either. > > John- arrived 1904 > (maybe) Peter- arrived 1903 > James- arrived 1906 > Maggie- arrived 1916 > Mary- arrived 1915 but maybe also 1906 > Hugh (my granfather)- arrived 1913 > Biddy (Bridget)- rrived 1911 > Annie- arrived 1910 > Owen- arrived 1915 > Kate- arrived 1920 > > Owen, Kate and Mary went to Chicago and the rest all stayed in NY as far as > I know. I actually did find (throught the Chicago Tribune Historical > Archives) living daughters of Mary LEONARD in Chicago. They wanted nothing > to do with me and one of them actually hung up on me so they were no help. I > was extremely disappointed in them since they are my father's first cousins > and could have been so helpful but I also have a lot of information for them > about their mother and their father. > > I don't know where to start. I know almost nothing about this side of the > family. My Aunt says that her father was a quite man and never told them > anything about his family. He died when my father was 10 so the children > were all too young to ever learn anything about his family. > > I would appreciate any suggestions. > Thank you > Pauline Leonard > Ontario > Canada > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I am at a complete standstill and would appreciate some advice. My grandfather, Hugh LEONARD, went to the US in 1913 through Ellis Island. After that I cannot find him and quite frankly don't know where to start. He was in America for approximately 20 years and then he returned to Ireland where he married my grandmother in 1934. All of his sibling also went to America. I have found them on the Ellis Island site but know nothing of them after that either. John- arrived 1904 (maybe) Peter- arrived 1903 James- arrived 1906 Maggie- arrived 1916 Mary- arrived 1915 but maybe also 1906 Hugh (my granfather)- arrived 1913 Biddy (Bridget)- rrived 1911 Annie- arrived 1910 Owen- arrived 1915 Kate- arrived 1920 Owen, Kate and Mary went to Chicago and the rest all stayed in NY as far as I know. I actually did find (throught the Chicago Tribune Historical Archives) living daughters of Mary LEONARD in Chicago. They wanted nothing to do with me and one of them actually hung up on me so they were no help. I was extremely disappointed in them since they are my father's first cousins and could have been so helpful but I also have a lot of information for them about their mother and their father. I don't know where to start. I know almost nothing about this side of the family. My Aunt says that her father was a quite man and never told them anything about his family. He died when my father was 10 so the children were all too young to ever learn anything about his family. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you Pauline Leonard Ontario Canada

Working from knowns to unknowns we have Kate and Bryan Gaughran at 540 West 42nd Street Twins are delivered on 16 Oct 1891. Birth certificate #36644 is for a nameless child. This is not so uncommon as the doctor may not know the family that well and the parents may not have decided. (I have a family with 6 kids born between 1891-1901, 4 have birth certificates but only the 1901 has a name. The 1891, 1896 and 1898 did not. Ironically these three nameless children lived to adulthood while the 1892 and 1894 that did not have birth certificates at all and the named one in 1901 all die before they are six-months-old. They lived in this same neighborhood. The 1891 and 1892 were baptized at Holy Cross, 1894, 1896 and 1898 were baptized at St. Raphael. The 1901 was baptized at Sacred Heart.) There were five previous births and six living children. This means that there were children 1,2,3,4 and 5 when 6 was born. If 6 is the first born twin and takes a breath that is still true. One would expect that the second twin would be born momentarily and then the numbers are six previous births including the now 2 minute old baby even if he has already died and then 7 if twin 1/baby 6 is alive and 6 still living if twin 1/baby 6 has passed away. There is a chance that the doctor added wrong but the question asked was number of children born before this new baby. If none of your kids die the second number will always be higher because the new baby is not in the first part but is in the second. Babies that later die still count for number of previous births but not for number still living. Birth certificate #36820 for Charles says 6 previous children but only 4 now living. There may have been confusion but another child may have died this day as well. Highly unlikely since twins are born within moments unless something went very differently. There were no Gaughrans that died according to the 1891 death index online but that does not mean that it was not recorded. Below is the Thomas citation you mention. Dr. Molony had cared for the family before and he may have given more reliable information than Dr. Sanders. Perhaps Dr. Sanders was the only doctor they could find and Dr. Molony came around before the birth was over and delivered the second twin. If two doctors were filing the birth of twins that would nicely explain why they do not have sequential birth certificate numbers. Dr. Molony kept being their doctor as he handled the death of Thomas in 1892. Gaughran Thomas 14 m Dec 26 1892 #43826 Manhattan 1891 - 1892 People often changed the names of children. I have a birth certificate for Allan in 1890 but in the Police Census and thereafter he is Francis. I just thought though what is your basis for them being twins? Maybe Dr. Sanders delivered and reported the birth of a single child. The baby was sick or Dr. Molony came by to check on him and wanted to make sure the birth was registered and he registered it himself. One event was possibly recorded by two doctors. It is rather odd that there is no burial information. I would think either there was no second baby at all or maybe he did not die but was institutionalized. Especially by 1891 the death certificates are statistically complete. Calvary etc. would not dream of burying a kid without a death certificate by 1891. St. Raphael was just south of them at 541 West 41st Street. This is one of the few parishes that has records available through the FHL in Salt Lake City. For $5.50 you can see a microfilm of the original baptismal register yourself. You might even find other Gaughran children baptized in these records. Ellen at Holy Cross is a gem. The fee is $10 per request. Send a SASE too. There is an index so she is very quick and information is reliable. As for full notations and see if there is a notation stating Gemini in the margins.

I have seen "Dionysus" used for the name "Dennis" as well! Kelly Gray Gray-Devlin-Griffin ---Manhattan > To: IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY@rootsweb.com > From: kmct@earthlink.net > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:15:03 -0600 > Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Birth Certificates and Surprise information > > I have just gotten several Manhattan birth certificates lately via > the FHL photocopying service.(Thanks Mel!) > > What was a surprise is the added information or misinformation. It > reinforces the idea that you need multiple records to come to a > conclusion. > > This couple were married in 1902 in the Bronx. They fortunately have > a Department of Health marriage record. I also have the three birth > certificates of their daughters pre-1910. They have two later > children with certificates but they are not public yet but I did get > the certificate numbers from the index that runs through 1982. > > Name age in Feb 1902 Jan 1905 Jun 1907 Nov 1909 > Owen 35 40 40 38 > Mary 19 22 25 27 > > A few other things to notice. > > 1) Owen is listed as Eugene on the 1909 birth certificate. He is > always listed as Owen in all other records. When he was baptized in > 1862 he was listed as Eugenius which is the Latin for Owen. Owen and > Eugene are the same name like John and Sean. > > 2) In 1905 I have three records for this family and they are not at > the same address in ANY of them. In January 1905 on the birth > certificate they lived at 600 West 46th Street (and baby was baptized > at 329 West 42nd at Holy Cross). In the Jun 1905 NY State Census Owen > is age 35(sic) Mary is 23 and they lived at 543 West 43rd Street. > Sadly the baby died at age 10-months in November 1905 and they were > living at 474 West 43rd Street. That makes finding the right parish > and address very challenging. I heard this branch moved each year for > a freshly painted apartment but wow! > > 3) The 1907 birth certificate provided that Owen was from County > Tyrone and his wife was from County Limerick. This is the only time > his records indicated where he was from. His sisters' records > provided more but if one did not know of other immigrant siblings > sometimes just getting a record from an American-born collateral who > is not your ancestor may break the wall. > > 4) Be careful with the ages and then trying to find a baptismal > record in Ireland. As seen above it can be a tricky proposition to > find this guy since he was born from any of these circa 1867, 1865, > 1870, 1867, 1871. He was born in March 1862 according to his > baptismal certificate. Don't rigidly assume that the one record you > have is absolutely correct. Check it against the census and other > vital records from a more complete picture. > > 5) Pay attention to the number of previous children and number now > living in all. The 1905 indicates that there was an older child(no > birth certificate but have baptismal from 1903) and that it was still > living in 1905. The 1907 indicates that there were two previous > children(1903 and 1905) and now only two remain(1903 and 1907). The > 1905 died. The 1909 indicated that there were three previous births > (1903, 1905 and 1907) and now a total of three living(1903, 1907 and > 1909). The birth records in the the 1880s asked what number child was > this which is a different question so make sure you know which form > they used to determine how many kids there were. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

I have seen "Dionysus" used for the name "Dennis" as well! Kelly Gray Gray-Devlin-Griffin ---Manhattan > To: IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY@rootsweb.com > From: kmct@earthlink.net > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:15:03 -0600 > Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Birth Certificates and Surprise information > > I have just gotten several Manhattan birth certificates lately via > the FHL photocopying service.(Thanks Mel!) > > What was a surprise is the added information or misinformation. It > reinforces the idea that you need multiple records to come to a > conclusion. > > This couple were married in 1902 in the Bronx. They fortunately have > a Department of Health marriage record. I also have the three birth > certificates of their daughters pre-1910. They have two later > children with certificates but they are not public yet but I did get > the certificate numbers from the index that runs through 1982. > > Name age in Feb 1902 Jan 1905 Jun 1907 Nov 1909 > Owen 35 40 40 38 > Mary 19 22 25 27 > > A few other things to notice. > > 1) Owen is listed as Eugene on the 1909 birth certificate. He is > always listed as Owen in all other records. When he was baptized in > 1862 he was listed as Eugenius which is the Latin for Owen. Owen and > Eugene are the same name like John and Sean. > > 2) In 1905 I have three records for this family and they are not at > the same address in ANY of them. In January 1905 on the birth > certificate they lived at 600 West 46th Street (and baby was baptized > at 329 West 42nd at Holy Cross). In the Jun 1905 NY State Census Owen > is age 35(sic) Mary is 23 and they lived at 543 West 43rd Street. > Sadly the baby died at age 10-months in November 1905 and they were > living at 474 West 43rd Street. That makes finding the right parish > and address very challenging. I heard this branch moved each year for > a freshly painted apartment but wow! > > 3) The 1907 birth certificate provided that Owen was from County > Tyrone and his wife was from County Limerick. This is the only time > his records indicated where he was from. His sisters' records > provided more but if one did not know of other immigrant siblings > sometimes just getting a record from an American-born collateral who > is not your ancestor may break the wall. > > 4) Be careful with the ages and then trying to find a baptismal > record in Ireland. As seen above it can be a tricky proposition to > find this guy since he was born from any of these circa 1867, 1865, > 1870, 1867, 1871. He was born in March 1862 according to his > baptismal certificate. Don't rigidly assume that the one record you > have is absolutely correct. Check it against the census and other > vital records from a more complete picture. > > 5) Pay attention to the number of previous children and number now > living in all. The 1905 indicates that there was an older child(no > birth certificate but have baptismal from 1903) and that it was still > living in 1905. The 1907 indicates that there were two previous > children(1903 and 1905) and now only two remain(1903 and 1907). The > 1905 died. The 1909 indicated that there were three previous births > (1903, 1905 and 1907) and now a total of three living(1903, 1907 and > 1909). The birth records in the the 1880s asked what number child was > this which is a different question so make sure you know which form > they used to determine how many kids there were. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

Looking at my NYC birth certificates again it appears the forms changed c. 1890. I have a birth certificate from March 1889 and it asks number of child born to this mother 1,2,3,4... and then the number of them now alive. The April 1890 birth certificate asked number of previous children and the number still living in all (including the newborn).

I have just gotten several Manhattan birth certificates lately via the FHL photocopying service.(Thanks Mel!) What was a surprise is the added information or misinformation. It reinforces the idea that you need multiple records to come to a conclusion. This couple were married in 1902 in the Bronx. They fortunately have a Department of Health marriage record. I also have the three birth certificates of their daughters pre-1910. They have two later children with certificates but they are not public yet but I did get the certificate numbers from the index that runs through 1982. Name age in Feb 1902 Jan 1905 Jun 1907 Nov 1909 Owen 35 40 40 38 Mary 19 22 25 27 A few other things to notice. 1) Owen is listed as Eugene on the 1909 birth certificate. He is always listed as Owen in all other records. When he was baptized in 1862 he was listed as Eugenius which is the Latin for Owen. Owen and Eugene are the same name like John and Sean. 2) In 1905 I have three records for this family and they are not at the same address in ANY of them. In January 1905 on the birth certificate they lived at 600 West 46th Street (and baby was baptized at 329 West 42nd at Holy Cross). In the Jun 1905 NY State Census Owen is age 35(sic) Mary is 23 and they lived at 543 West 43rd Street. Sadly the baby died at age 10-months in November 1905 and they were living at 474 West 43rd Street. That makes finding the right parish and address very challenging. I heard this branch moved each year for a freshly painted apartment but wow! 3) The 1907 birth certificate provided that Owen was from County Tyrone and his wife was from County Limerick. This is the only time his records indicated where he was from. His sisters' records provided more but if one did not know of other immigrant siblings sometimes just getting a record from an American-born collateral who is not your ancestor may break the wall. 4) Be careful with the ages and then trying to find a baptismal record in Ireland. As seen above it can be a tricky proposition to find this guy since he was born from any of these circa 1867, 1865, 1870, 1867, 1871. He was born in March 1862 according to his baptismal certificate. Don't rigidly assume that the one record you have is absolutely correct. Check it against the census and other vital records from a more complete picture. 5) Pay attention to the number of previous children and number now living in all. The 1905 indicates that there was an older child(no birth certificate but have baptismal from 1903) and that it was still living in 1905. The 1907 indicates that there were two previous children(1903 and 1905) and now only two remain(1903 and 1907). The 1905 died. The 1909 indicated that there were three previous births (1903, 1905 and 1907) and now a total of three living(1903, 1907 and 1909). The birth records in the the 1880s asked what number child was this which is a different question so make sure you know which form they used to determine how many kids there were.

This touches on one of the most stimulating challenges I have come across in my own family history. I am intrigued, probably beyond all normal levels, so I feel compelled to share every last detail with you, hoping that I am not the only person out there who gets this wrapped up in this stuff :) I also hope someone else can see possibilities that I have overlooked! In my research, I figured out that my great-grandparents had twins in NYC in 1891. These two children were born on 16 Oct 1891, but it seems that one died almost immediately. The birth certificates both list the place of birth the same as they list parents Kate and Bryan Gaughran’s residence, 540 W 42 St. What seems to be the certificate for the first birth [no. 36644] lists no first name: in two different locations, there is a dash drawn in for the child’s first name. This certificate lists 5 previous births and 6 living children: the birth was reported and the certificate was filed 19 Oct by J. A. Sanders, MD, at 249 W 42 St. Maybe, as the paperwork was filed the day after the birth, the “how many living in all” number is higher than the “number of previous children” number because of the second of the twins having been born before the paperwork was filled out for this first birth. What seems to be the certificate for the second birth [no. 36820] names the child Charles. It lists 6 previous children and 4 now living: it seems like two children have died in the past day: perhaps grief led to this confusion. The birth was recorded on 18 Oct, and it was filed on 20 Oct by A. A. Mohny or Molony at 262 W 42 St, who also signed the death certificates of siblings John and Eugene in 1885 as well as a Thomas's death certificate in 1892: this Thomas was 14 months old at death, making him one of the two babies from this birth. I think the first child from this birth died before his birth was recorded—he was probably seen by a physician on the 19th who reported his birth before his death, hence the “6 now living with 5 previous births” report; the second baby from this birth must have started life as Charles and ended life as Thomas. There is no record of the first baby’s burial in the family cemetery plot with siblings and grandmother, nor have I been able to locate a corresponding death certificate; however, there are both a death certificate and a burial record for fourteen month-old Thomas fourteen months later. Maybe physicians intervened in some way regarding the deceased first baby. I cannot find the family in the 1900 census, but in the 1910 census Kate lists 8 children born and 4 living--all 4 live with their parents in 1910. My next step should be to find baptismal records, but I have not been successful so far at locating correct parishes for these records. I am in the process of trying to make phone contact with the correct person at Holy Cross; however, I am on west coast time, and my work schedule makes it difficult to catch her after 4:30 her time as the parish has indicated will be necessary. Whew! Hope some of you have read this far. Cathy Michelle and Kevin Cassidy <kmct@earthlink.net> wrote: Looking at my NYC birth certificates again it appears the forms changed c. 1890. I have a birth certificate from March 1889 and it asks number of child born to this mother 1,2,3,4... and then the number of them now alive. The April 1890 birth certificate asked number of previous children and the number still living in all (including the newborn). ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Thank you! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Northernrose54@aol.com> To: <irish-new-york-city@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Grand Street Boys > New York: Clean and tight. The association was originally founded for boys > who had grown up in the lower east side of New York City. It was later > thrown > open to any American. Its membership lists included many distinguished > Americans. This yearbook celebrates the association's activities and > prominent members. > Very good > > This is from ebay offering for 65 anniversary year boy. > > > Jerry > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

New York: Clean and tight. The association was originally founded for boys who had grown up in the lower east side of New York City. It was later thrown open to any American. Its membership lists included many distinguished Americans. This yearbook celebrates the association's activities and prominent members. Very good This is from ebay offering for 65 anniversary year boy. Jerry **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

I am looking for the marriage of Lawrence DOLAN. According to the 1870 census they were married in 1869, hard to read the month but it looks like June. The 1870 census doesn't show addresses but it was for the 6th Elect Dist 22nd Ward, NYC. Post Office was 1450 Broadway. How would I go about locating the church they may have gotten married in? I have looked through the LDS films with no luck and am hoping I could find the church. --Pam

I as looking over some old papers and found "The Grand Street Boys Assoc." it was started in 1920 in New York. They moved to 54th or 55th Street in N.Y. around 1924. Does anyone know anything about them? Thank you Yvonne