Hi Mario :) Anything you can find for him is more then I have now :) So, thank you so much for taking the time to add my request to your list :) I do know that he came over in Oct. 1914, Think he was staying with a relative 'Patrick McConnell', but the 1920 census list's them both as boarders in a "Larkin" household. I also know that in 1921 James became a cop for NYPD, I have those records, but they really don't give alot of information as to him prior to arrival in Brooklyn.. I know he came from Co. Fermanagh, Ireland, & I have his parent's names, but that is it... I am hoping that 'IF' these papers list family members it will list the family member status.. Which would help me figure out just WHO this Patrick is in relation to James (There is abt. a 10 yr age difference in the 2 of them...).. So, Anything you find on him will be great :) And again, Thank you so much :) Maureen NW FL -----Original Message----- From: mtogl [mailto:mtogl@email.msn.com] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:10 PM To: IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Brooklyn Hall of Records Okay....the name is James Joseph McConnell found in declaration of intent book # 100 on page 313 for the year 1915... No problem...It is an easy look-up so long as the information is correct. I am not xeroxing anything. I will simply copy down the name of the ship, date of arrival, Brooklyn residence and whatever other info there is. If it's a naturalization paper, I think for that year they give the names of family members.... Mario

I have to go into Brooklyn on Tuesday. I will be stopping in the Brooklyn Hall of Records. If you have a relative who was naturalized after 1907-1920, I will look for information only if you can provide me with Liber and page number. You will need to go to: www.jgsny.org then go down to Naturalization records for New York State then to Kings County Records then to Search Records... Do not ask me to search pre-1907 records.... I need Liber and page number. I will only be there for an hour....So I will look for "odd" names first [ e.g. Henry Quigley ] before "more common" ones [ e.g. John Sullivan]. Mario

If at all possible, could you please get the information on this person, he is my grandfather & has been a Brickwall for 29 years or so.. McConnell, James Joseph -(Dec Vol)# 100 -(Dec Page)# 313 -(year)1915 M254 Thank you so much in advance & Have a safe trip :) Maureen NW FL -----Original Message----- From: mtogl [mailto:mtogl@email.msn.com] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:46 AM To: IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Brooklyn Hall of Records I have to go into Brooklyn on Tuesday. I will be stopping in the Brooklyn Hall of Records. If you have a relative who was naturalized after 1907-1920, I will look for information only if you can provide me with Liber and page number. You will need to go to: www.jgsny.org then go down to Naturalization records for New York State then to Kings County Records then to Search Records... Do not ask me to search pre-1907 records.... I need Liber and page number. I will only be there for an hour....So I will look for "odd" names first [ e.g. Henry Quigley ] before "more common" ones [ e.g. John Sullivan]. Mario

Greetings All. For those sending polite faxes to Industry Minister Allan Rock requesting his immediate action to ensure continued access to Historic Census records in accordance with the National Archive of Canada Act and the Privacy Act, there seems to be some confusion as to what number to send it to. The number posted previously was (613) 992-0302 . This number is for his fax in the Ministry offices. The fax number for his office as an MP is (613) 947-4276. Both numbers are valid, and perhaps we should be sending our requests to both locations. After sending your fax, drop it in an envelope and send it to him via snail mail. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm

Irish-American September 26, 1857 News from New York A man named Patrick KELLY, residing at 249 East 18th Street, fell down stairs on the evening of the 14th inst., and was killed. A man named James SHEPHERD has been arrested for having set fire to his house in 53rd Street, last June. His wife was burned to a cinder in the conflagration. On the 15th inst., a man named Patrick BURKE had one of his legs broken at the Crystal Palace, by the fall of a piece of a fly-wheel. A man named John O'BRIEN was fatally stabbed at No. 8 Caroline Street, in this city, on the night of the 14th inst., by Thomas BYRON, who is in custody. William DOYLE, a gardener, committed suicide at New Brighton, Staten Island, last week by jumping into the water from the dock. James MORRISSEY, a Brooklyn newsboy, was crushed to death last week by the fenders at the Fulton Ferry on which he was sitting as a boat was coming in. On the 8th inst., a man named Patrick KEITH was run over by a baggage car on the Long Island Railroad, and died on the 14th from the effects of his injuries. On Friday last, a boy named Bernard FLYNN, whose parents reside in Harrison Street, Brooklyn, accidentally fell from a lumber pile where he was engaged at work at the foot of Baltic Street, and was drowned. William GORDAN, a brakeman on the N.Y. and Erie R.R. died at New York Hospital from injuries received a few days previous, by being run over by a train of cars near the Suffern Station. Ellen DUFFY, a child four years old, was burned to death on the night of the 16th inst., at 241 Sixth Street, by the bed taking fire from a match which she lit herself. News Around the U.S. Mrs. Elizabeth BENNETT, of Freehold, N.J., has been found guilty of the manslaughter of her child. A man named Michael FETTERS was killed in Snyder Township, Pennsylvania, by a tree falling on him last week. A man named John WARD, while intoxicated a day or two since, lay down on the railroad track at East Hartford, Ct., and was run over by a train and killed. Rev. G.H. DOANE, son of Dr. DOANE, Protestant Bishop of New Jersey, was on Sunday week, ordained a Roman Catholic priest in St. Patrick's Cathedral, Newark. James CURRAN, Michael CURRAN and Ellen CONLAN, were fined $10 each last week by Recorder Bedford in Jesey City, for selling liquor on Sunday. Nicholas BERRY, pilot, and a boy named RUSH, were drowned in Boston Harbor on the 17th inst., by the sinking of a boat. A man named James IRWIN fell overboard from the steamer Richard Stockton, at Philadelphia, on the 16th ult.; Francois KANE jumped to his assistance, when, melancholy to relate, both were drowned.

Irish-American September 26, 1857 Deaths in New York On Monday, the 7th last, at Hastings, N.Y., in the 32nd year of her age, from injuries received in the unavailing effort to save her little daughter from being killed by a train of cars on the Hudson River Railroad, Mary Josephine, the beloved wife of Mr. Thomas SMITH, Postmaster of Hastings. The child - Mary Josephine - who perished with her mother on this sad occasion, was the eldest daughter of Mr. and Mrs. SMITH, an interesting little girl, aged nine years and three months. Their remains were interred on the 9th in the new Catholic burying ground on the Bronxville Road; the entire population of Hastings and Dobbs Ferry evincing their respect for the deceased, and their sympathy with the bereaved husband and father, by suspending business during the funeral. Died at St. Joseph, Mo., Sept. 7, 1857, Dr. James BLAKE, aged 48 years. Galway (Ireland) and Australian papers please copy. At Lynchburg, Va., August 5th of consumption, Mr. George DRINAN, late of Cork, Ireland, aged 36 years. On Wednesday, Sept. 16th, in the 35th year of her age, Susan, the beloved wife of Thomas PURCELL, eldest daughter of the late David GREGG, of Coachford, Co. Cork, Ireland. Limerick and Cork papers please copy.

Irish-American September 26, 1857 Information Wanted Clare - Of James, Bridget and Ann LYNCH, children of the late Denis LYNCH, of Quin, County Clare, Ireland. If this should catch their attention, they will please write and send their address to their sister, Catherine, who has arrived in this city. Direct to the care of Patrick J. MEEHAN, Irish-American office. Cork - Of Garrett NAGLE, or his aunts Honora and Margaret WALSH, (the latter married to Jeremiah WALSH) from the city of Cork, Ireland, who came to this country about six years ago and are living in or near New Haven, Conn. If this should meet their eyes (or anyone who knows their address) they will please write immediately to Barbara NAGLE, sister of Garrett, who arrived in this city by the ship Cynosure. Direct to the office of the Irish-American, or to the care of M. CASSERLY, Esq., Secretary to the Commissioners of Emigration, New York. Limerick - Of Johanna SENEY or SOONEY, by her niece Johanna SULLIVAN, who arrived in this country Sept. 3, from Shannagolden, County Limerick, Ireland. Please call at 357 Bowery, in the Saloon. Roscommon - Of Annie HANLY, now married, and goes by the name Annie EARS or SEARS, a native of the parish of Kilmore, County Roscommon, Ireland; when last heard from she sent a letter home to the Old Country from Chicago, Ill., without giving the name of the street or number. Any information of her will be thankfully received by her sister and brother, Catherine and Michael HANLY, at Thomas McDONALD'S, 23 State Street, Brooklyn. Chicago papers please copy.

Irish-American September 26, 1857 Marriages in Ireland James HENSWORTH CUMMING, Esq., of Cork, to Margaret, daughter of James CUMMING, Esq., of Dublin. At Brinny, County Cork, George LOVELL, Esq., of Kilbeg House, to Susan, daughter of the late Thomas SULLEN, Esq., of Baxter's Bridge. In Dublin, Lucius KELLY, Esq., to Charlotte Catherine, daughter of the late Holmes BIGGAM, Esq., formerly Captain 81st Regiment. At Queenstown, Wm. Henry BARRY, Esq., of Cork, to Paulina Jane, daughter of the late William ROCHE, Esq., of Aghada House. Henery Meredyth CRUISE, Esq., of the Chief Secretary's Office, Dublin Castle, to Frances ARMITAGE, daughter of Pierce MORTON, Esq., fomerly of Kilnacroft, Cavan. Dr. James O'CONNOR, to Mrs. Honora O'SULLIVAN, Kenmare. At St. George's, Hanover Square, London, Robert John O'REILLY, Esq., of Mill Castle, County Meath, to Eleanor Grace, second daughter of Sir Morton KNATCH. Sept. 1 by the Rev. Geo. GOUGH GUBBINS, rector of Ballingarry, uncle to the bride, Theophilius, eldest son of John BENNETT, Esq., Oldtown, Templemore, to Mary Elizabeth, second daughter of Joseph L. GUBBINS, Esq., of Ballincolloo House, County Limerick. At St. Michael's Church, Limerick, by the Rev. Pryce PEACOCKE, Edward, eldest son of James WARDELL, Esq., Beverley, Yorkshire, to Alica Julia, youngest daughter of the late Robert O'SHAUGHNESSY, Esq., of Limerick.

Irish-American September 26, 1857 News from Ireland Carlow - A policeman named COLGAN drowned himself lately in the river Barrow, near Carlow, while laboring under a fit of temporary insanity. Louth - On the 1st inst., the liberal electors of Drogheda entertained their representative, James McCANN, to a public dinner in commemoration of his successful opposition to the petition presented against his return. During the evening, a splendid silver epergne, with an appropriate address inscribed on vellum, was presented to Mr. McCANN. Cork - The ship Western Star of Boston, put into Queenstown in a sinking condition, on the 30th ult., having come into collision with a strange bark off the old Head of Kinsale, the morning previous, sending her to the bottom with everyone on board. So sudden was the occurence, and so dark was it at the time, that the crew of the Western Star were unable to make out the nationality of the strange bark, but were confident she was neither British nor American. It is supposed she was a Genosee vessel. Patrick CROWE died on the 21st ult., from the effects of coup de soleil, at Keelaraheen, near Dunmanway. Mr. HUNTER, late assistant postmaster at Cork, convicted at summer assizes, 1856, of embezzling two money letters, and sentenced to tow years' and a half imprisonment, has been discharged from custody by order of the Lord Lieutenant, owing to ill health. Head Constable Michael HAYES has been transferred from Buttevant to an important station in the city of Cork. Francis LEAHY, Esq., Cork, has paid 4,200 pounds to the local charities, bequeathed by the late Earl of Cork. Mr. S. BENNETT, J.P., Blackrock, was robbed in Cork, lately, of a watch and chain vauled at fifty guineas. Antrim - The rioting caused by street preaching on each Sunday, in Belfast, was continued on the 30th ult., notwithstanding a promise made in one of the city newspapers that public preaching would be discontinued for the present. Mr. MATTEER endeavored to hold forth from the steps of the Custom House, but was obliged to desist, representations having been made to the Chief Constable of Police of the danger of a riot. Some of the crowd assembled at the Custom House, hearing that there was to be preaching in Eliza Street, proceeded there, and found a ranter about to hold forth; but when he saw the crowd approach somewhat hurriedly, he retreated into a meeting or school house; after which the crowd were attacked by a number of females, respectably dressed, who carried parasols in conunction with their tongues, which they used upon the throng, calling them, "Pound loaning sweeps" and saying it was horrid of them not to hear "the word of God" on Sunday. For this year, the direct emigration from Belfast to any part of the Continent of America, has entirely ceased. It has decreased from year to year, until, at length, it became almost a nullity, as compared with the local emgration statistics of former years. It is not, however, to be understood from this, that the actual emigration from the northern portion of Ireland fell off in the same proportion. The direct ports of departure for emigrations at present are Liverpool and Greencok; and to these ports our northern emigrants proceed (passage free) by steamer, to join their respective ships. Captain McBRIDE has received 2 pounds 4s. 2d., being a collection from the workers in the flax spinning mill belonging to Messrs. McCONNELL and KENNEDY, Falls Road, Belfast, from Mr. John ROBINSON, manager, for the purpose of assisting the poor people landing on the quays of that city in a most deplorable condition, from England and Scotland. Galway - His Grace the Archbishop of Tuam administered the sacrament of confirmation to over one thousand persons in the united parishes of Knock and Aughamore, on the 24th and 25th ult. During the time the clergy of the deanery attended, and were hospitably entertained by the worthy parish priest, the Rev. Eugene COYNE. Mayo - The Patron of Murrisk, which has from time immemorial been held on the Monday after the 28th August in each year, came off at the foot of Croagh Patrick, near the hospitable residence of the late John C. GARVEY, Esq., and now the residence of his amiable and accomplished widow. The attendance, as usual, was most numerous, and everything passed off quietly. John D. WATERS, Esq., formerly one of the vice guardians of the Ballina Union has, on the recommendation of James MALLEY, Esq., been appointed Secretary to the Dublin Conservative Society. Mr. SMITH of Drogheda, was accidentally shot, when grouse shooting near Castlebar, on the 27th ult.

Irish-American September 26, 1857 Deaths in Ireland At Beech Lodge, Cloughjordan, Eliza, relict of Devacques SMYTH, Esq., of Oakwood, King's County, and daughter of the late Richard DICKSON, Esq., Limerick. Suddenly, in Patrick Street, Cork, M. Gustave BONVALLET. In Buncrana, Dr. Hugh O'DONNELL. At Holywood, County Down, Maria, relict of Alexander MACAULEY, Esq., of Cusbendall. In Dublin, Rebecca, relict of the late Captain HILLIS, of Seaview, County Sligo. William, son of Mr. John GRIOTT, of Cratioe. In Dublin, James BARLOW, Esq. At Deepwell, Blackrock, Dublin, Richard Samuel GUINNESS, Esq. The wife of Mr. Richard FREE, court house, Waterford. The wife of Mr. Henry JONES, Clonmel. At Paris, Wm. GLOVER, Esq., of the Inner Temple, son of Dr. GLOVER, of Phillipstown. On the 25th ult., at Kilkee, Miss WILSON, of Caherconlish House, County Limerick. At the Rylands, Randwick, August 25th, Mary Jane, second daughter of the late Rev. E. POWER, of Athenstone, and sister to Mrs. EVANS, of Newmarket, aged 29. Susan, wife of Henry GOOD, Esq., of Old Fort, in County Cork. At Kenmare, Arthur, son of Arthur BLAND, Esq. At Gowran Rectory, Belfast, the wife of Rev. Alexander STAPLES, aged 66. At Wilmount, County Tipperary, John BLACKMORE, Esq. In Waterford, Mr. HICKEY, Professor of Music. At Melbourne, Victoria, James STIMPSON, Esq.

Hi- I'm one of the group who is going in with the group of people purchasing the bank records film. I've lost all of the mailing information-could somebody please email it to me again? Thanks Joy --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 3/14/2002

If anyone has the above mentioned cd from Family tree maker/ genealogy.com, I'd appreciate a lookup on a Thomas GORMAN died in Brooklyn May 23, 1920. Thanks.

I have a death certificate for a Grace D. Tully, borth Feb 9, 1902, to parents Charles Tully and Helen Benson of New york, died July 19, 1933 in Quincy, IL. Will be willing to send to authentic family member. Interested in why she came to Quincy, IL from New York. My ggrandfather was Patrick Tully of Quincy, but I do not know any ancestors of his. Lois Heath --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

Barbara - Please tell me how to get a Certificate # from Indexes available on microfilm thru Family History Centers? Please tell me where and how to start, I am new to all of this. I would like to find Marriage, Birth & Death Records in the 1850's in NYC. All 3 in the same family (my brickwall). I would be so appreciative, if I could find some names and dates. All I have is my ggrandmother's name, birth date in NY. My brickwall is her parents names. They died and she was placed in an orphanage when very young and apparently she did not know their names. Her father was from Ireland and her mother from NY. Her name was Mary Josephine RILEY, b. May 6, 1852 in NY and that is all I know. Is that enough to start on? Berta Grand Junction, Colorado

> >The Public Record Office in Kew now has an Online Catalogue which you can >search at http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ > >Choose 'Search the Catalogue' >Box 1. - Type in the name you are searching >Box 2. - Type in the Year >Box 3. - Type in WO <A HREF="http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/">PROCAT: Reader</A> pro WO 97/1/107 DAVID BARRETT Born HALIFAX, Yorkshire Served in 1st Life Guards Discharged aged 40 1795-1814 WO 97/1/109 HENRY BARRETT Born OLDHAM, Lancashire Served in 1st Life Guards Discharged aged 26 1809-1818 WO 97/1/110 RICHARD BARRETT Born GROSSAL, Staffordshire Served in 2nd Life Guards Discharged aged 57 1788-1822 WO 97/16/131 EDWARD BARRETT Born CASTLEBAR, Mayo Served in 9th Dragoons Discharged aged 20 1848-1848 WO 97/16/132 GEORGE BARRETT Born STOWE, Suffolk Served in 10th Dragoons Discharged aged 41 1803-1817 WO 97/16/133 GEORGE BARRETT Born STRADBALLY, Leix Served in 4th Dragoon Guards Discharged aged 41 1815-1841 WO 97/16/134 HENRY BARRETT Born OXFORD, Oxfordshire Served in 4th Dragoons Discharged aged 34 1826-1841 WO 97/16/135 JAMES BARRETT Born BERMONDSEY, Surrey Served in 4th Dragoons Discharged aged 33 1835-1848 WO 97/16/136 SAMUEL BARRETT Born MORTON, Norfolk Served in 17th Dragoons (Light) Discharged aged 26 1810-1820 WO 97/16/137 JOHN BARRETT Born ST MARGARETS, London and Middlesex Served in 14th Dragoons Discharged aged 43 1805-1831 WO 97/16/138 JOHN BARRETT Born DUBLIN, Dublin Served in 17th Dragoons (Light) Discharged aged 35 1820-1839 WO 97/16/139 RALPH BARRETT Born DROMORE, Down Served in 7th Dragoon Guards Discharged aged 37 1805-1822 WO 97/16/140 RICHARD BARRETT Born MALLOW, Cork Served in 6th Dragoon Guards Discharged aged 35 1831-1849 WO 97/16/141 RICHARD BARRETT Born COOLBARAGHIER, Leix Served in 4th Dragoon Guards; Leix Militia Discharged aged 48 1811-1840 WO 97/16/142 WILLIAM BARRETT Born DUNSTEW, Oxfordshire Served in 22nd Dragoons (Light) Discharged aged 46 1795-1820 WO 97/153/95 JOHN BARRETT Born SPALDING, Lincolnshire Served in 2nd Foot Guards Discharged aged 35 1805-1818 WO 97/153/98 JOHN BARRETT Born BLEWBURY, Berkshire Served in 3rd Foot Guards; Militia Discharged aged 50 1792-1815 WO 97/153/99 JOHN BARRETT Born OLDHAM, Lancashire Served in 2nd Foot Guards Discharged aged 45 1798-1816 PRO Reference Title/Scope and Content Covering Dates WO 97/153/100 THOMAS BARRETT Born LITTLE WILNETHAM, Suffolk Served in 2nd Foot Guards Discharged aged 40 1824-1845 WO 97/153/101 THOMAS BARRETT Born BROMSGROVE, Worcestershire Served in 3rd Foot Guards Discharged aged 32 1805-1818 WO 97/153/102 WILLIAM BARRETT Born BURY ST EDMUNDS, Suffolk Served in 2nd Foot Guards Discharged aged 39 1832-1853 WO 97/248/42 WILLIAM BARRETT Born ROCHDALE, Lancashire Served in 3rd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 31 1826-1838 WO 97/259/49 FRANCIS BARRETT Born ALDBURN, Wiltshire Served in 4th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 35 1816-1827 WO 97/259/50 HENRY BARRETT Born DENSTONE, Suffolk Served in 4th Foot Regiment; 54th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 38 1825-1847 WO 97/277/50 PETER BARRETT Born KILBRAGIN, Cork Served in 6th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 34 1826-1843 WO 97/287/42 JAMES BARRETT Born CORK, Cork Served in 7th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 32 1807-1821 WO 97/287/43 JOHN BARRETT Born BRAMFIELD, Yorkshire Served in 7th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 29 1810-1814 WO 97/294/41 HENRY BARRETT Born CHELSEA, London and Middlesex Served in 8th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 34 1839-1853 WO 97/302/61 HENRY BARRETT Born TEDBURY, Gloucestershire Served in 9th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 41 1799-1819 WO 97/302/62 PATRICK BARRETT Born AUGLISH, Mayo Served in 58th Foot Regiment; 9th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 38 1808-1827 WO 97/313/61 CHARLES BARRETT Born CORK, Cork Served in 10th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 36 1809-1815 WO 97/313/62 JOHN BARRETT Born FOWGART, Louth Served in 10th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 39 1804-1825 WO 97/322/37 MARTIN BARRETT Born MOATE, Westmeath Served in 11th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 30 1807-1817 WO 97/332/70 JOHN BARRETT alias JOHN BORRETT Born IKEN, Suffolk Served in 12th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 37 1837-1852 WO 97/341/28 MATTHEW BARRETT Born KILMORE, Mayo Served in 13th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 36 1807-1820 WO 97/341/29 PHILIP BARRETT Born RONAGH, Mayo Served in 13th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 39 1821-1841 WO 97/349/56 JAMES BARRETT alias JAMES BARROTT Born OUNDLE, Hertfordshire Served in 14th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 38 1822-1841 WO 97/368/20 GEORGE BARRETT Born BIRMINGHAM, Warwickshire Served in 16th Foot Regiment; 45th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 33 1825-1841

Greetings All. I have finished reading the Environics Report on the Town Hall Meetings and Focus Groups, and to say the least, I am not impressed. Information on the Town Hall Meetings was no surprize as we had reports of participants and witnesses previously and were aware that the vast majority of presenters supported access. The way that things were presented, however, was a surprize in that no numbers were indicated when presenting the various aspects of the issue. We know from other sources that there were 157 presenters at the meetings. We know that there were 6 presenters that spoke against access while the other 151 spoke for it. The Report, however, gives no indication of those numbers. It speaks of a 'majority of presenters', 'many presenters', 'a number of presenters', 'some presenters', 'several presenters' and 'a few presenters'. Similar references were made whether discussing either the pro access or negative access positions. But no numbers were cited. As such an unfamiliar reader would not be aware of the overwhelming support for access that was shown at the meetings. A similar situation exists in the individual reports and the summary of the Focus Groups, although perhaps not to the same extent. There are some numbers mentioned there, although they are not presented in a tabular form such as were the results of the surveys conducted for the Expert Panel. The Summary of Findings states, in part: 'Although qualitative results are not representative of the population as a whole, we did find that, by a two-to-one margin overall and in a majority of the sessions, the focus group participants would withhold the release of these records. This is in stark contrast with the town hall presentations, where the overwhelming majority supported the release of these records.' Not encouraging to say the least. There were approximately 43 questions asked of focus group participants. Not one of them specifically mentioned the 'promise' of never-ending confidentiality, however in responses in the individual reports on the focus groups it is referred to so frequently that I find it difficult to believe that all references to it were spontaneous. >From the start I have expressed my concern about the possibility that a bias towards negative response would be used in the focus groups. It is my opinion that there was such a bias here, although it is not as obvious as it was in, especially, the second survey held for the Expert Panel. Contrary to the surveys held for the Expert Panel, I believe this bias shows up not so much in what participants in the focus groups were told, but in what they were NOT told. They were told that Canadians have been participating in censuses for 3 centuries and that 'the overall data on population figures and other measures have always been released'. There was NO MENTION that individual information was included in the information released. They were next INFORMED that some people feel that data collected for individuals from censuses should be available after a delay of about 90 years. Emphasis was placed on the reference to information on INDIVIDUALS. Participants were shown two clauses from the Instructions to Enumerators for the 1911 Census. The first was Clause 23. 'Secrecy of census provided for'. Some questions on this clause followed with the main one asking if this clause had anything to do with the issue of the release of historical census records. They were next shown clause 36. 'Clear and legible records.' relating to enumerators being required to 'write legibly' and that the 'records would be stored in the Archives of the Dominion'. Again they were asked if this clause had anything to do with the issue of the release of historical census records, and if there was any conflict between the two clauses. What participants were not shown was a third clause of these instructions that plays a very important part in the issue of access. That clause, 16. 'Rural and village enumeration to be kept separate.' stated, in part: 'This separation will facilitate the tabulation of agricultural statistics, and it will have value as a record for historical use in tracing the origin and rise of future towns in the country.' One might ask how these records could 'have value as a record for historical use' if it were never intended that they be accessible in the future? This question was never asked of the focus groups. 'Appendix F - Summaries of Town Hall Meetings' contains the same reports on individual Town Hall Meetings that were placed on the Environics Research Group website at http://erg.environics.net/ , less the disclaimer that each report had. I note that earlier today those reports were still accessible. In checking just now, however, the link takes us to the Report on the Statistics Canada website. 'Appendix H- Summaries of Focus Group Sessions' contains reports on individul Focus Groups using a format similar to those for the Town Hall Meetings. These reports appear to be presented in a subjective manner, giving the moderator's interpretation of responses, rather than in an objective manner that would specifically detail the responses given with numbers or percentages attached to them. Each of these individual reports has the same disclaimer attache to them as was originally attached to the reports of the Town Hall Meetings. This disclaimer states: 'This summary is based on the notes of the moderator. Although this summary accurately portrays the overall findings in this session, this report is not based on a review of the session transcriopts and must be taken into consideration with the findings in upcoming focus group sessions. As well, qualitative results are not representative of the general population.' I find the last sentence of this disclaimer particularly interesting. If qualitative results are not representative of the general population, what was the purpose of this recent exercise? In the Report of the Expert Panel, questions asked in the surveys and responses given were placed in tabular form with numbers or percentages given for each response, and indicating the degree of those responses. No such table is found in this report. 197 people participated in the Focus Groups. Of those, by my count 94 specifically opposed access, which is a far cry from the 2 to1 margin referred to at the beginning of the Report. I read this to be less than 50% or closer to 1 to 1. Those who opposed access, for the most part, did so because they believed a 'promise' had been made and it should not be broken. Others gave moral reasons for not allowing access. Others preferred some type of compromise, but few favoured the compromise suggested by Statistics Canada. I find it hard to believe that 100 dissenting votes from the Focus Groups and Town Hall Meetings can outweigh close to 50,000 supportive votes sent to Ottawa in petitions, letters and email to our MPs, Senators and other officials. Thats it for my first go around with this report. I may have more to say when I have had time to more fully digest it. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

Greetings All. My thanks to Jacquie Nex for advising on the CCC mail list that the Environics Research Group Report on the Town Hall Meetings and Focus Groups has been posted on the Statistics Canada website. The URL for it is http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Info/5072%20report.pdf (Make sure you add on any part of the URL that may have wrapped to the next line.) The Report is in PDF format so you will need the Adobe Acrobat reader installed in order to read it. I have not finished reading it yet but will give my assessment of it later tonight. I will state here that I have concerns regarding the proceedings of the Focus Groups. Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

Hello: I am looking for the Brooklyn marriage for Wilihelminia ("Minnie") HACHT and Robert SCHALKENBACH. The date provided on a passport application was 01February1899. I have written to Vital Rcds and just rec'd their reply that they could not find the rcd. Anybody have any other ideas? Thanks, Patti Lakeville, MI

Patti, I've had trouble getting certificates from the New York City area also. I've found that if I first get the certificate number from the indexes available on microfilm through the Family History Centers, I get my certificate within a month. Even with the exact date and location, if I don't have the certificate number I get a notice saying they couldn't find the certificate. Amazingly when I ordered a certificate near the end of August, 2001, I received the certificate on September 26, 2001. Their office is just blocks away from the World Trade Center. Good luck. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Hacht" <phacht@peoplepc.com> To: <IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:23 PM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Brooklyn marriage 1899 > Hello: > > I am looking for the Brooklyn marriage for Wilihelminia ("Minnie") HACHT > and Robert > SCHALKENBACH. The date provided on a passport application was > 01February1899. I have written to Vital Rcds and just rec'd their reply > that they could not find the rcd. Anybody have any other ideas? > > Thanks, > > Patti > Lakeville, MI > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Please visit the list website: > http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com > It is a work in progress. Thank you for your patience! > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Can anyone tell me how to find the birth date and place of EMILY SMITHERS who married GEORGE WHITMORE CARR Nov.5, 1873 in Brooklyn, NY.? He was born 1851 in Dublin, IR. and came to Brooklyn abt age 17. Thank you. Patricia CARR McDonald e-mail is pmcdonald@acun.com