Irish-American October 10, 1857 Information Wanted Of Edward McDONNELL, by his wife Sarah McDONNELL, who has arrived from Ashton-under-Lyne, England. When last heard of he worked for Mr. WRIGHT, at Attleboro, Mass. Direct letter to 202 East 17th Street, New York. Mayo - Of Martin KEAN, a native of Minola, county Mayo, Ireland, who arrived in New York in 1847, and left for Carbondale, State of Pennsylvania, at which place he was when last heard from; but it is supposed he has removed to Syracuse. Any information of him will be thankfully received by his nephew, Anthony KELLY, by addressing a few lines to to him at 190 Mercer Street, New York. Donegal - Of James KELLY, from Ballyshannon, County Donegal, Ireland, who left New York for California about the 5th of June, 1855. When last heard from (in April 1856), he was living with F.A. COFFEE, in either Front or South Street, San Francisco. Any intelligence of him will be thankfully received by his sister, Catherine KELLY, care of Mr. Uriah HENRY, 163 Bleecker Street, New York.

Irish-American October 10, 1857 Deaths in Ireland On the 13th ult., after a few hours' illness, William WELSH, Esq., of Trough House. At Tarbert, Doctor Wm. G. KENNEDY, for the last 30 years medical officer of the Tarbert dispensary, and Ordnance medical officer on the Lower Shannon. At Thomas Street, Limerick, after a few days' illness, Kate, the beloved daughter of John GLEESON, Esq., solicitor. At Woodville, County Cork, Captain William HARRINGTON SHERLOCK, late 69th Regt. At Caryafort Avenue, Blackrock, Dublin, Andrew JAMESON, Esq., of Enniscorthy. At Willington Road, Dublin, Major Scrope BERNARD, of Youghal Lodge, Nenagh. Harriet, wife of Mr. William GILMORE, Belfast. At Maryborough, John WATERS, Esq. In Cork, Mr. Bernard J. MAZON. In Queenstown, Mr. James MURPHY, late of St. John's, Newfoundland. At Whitegate, Richard McCARTHY, Esq., H.B.M.'s Customs, Cork. At Dileen, County Louth, Anna Maria, daughter of John MORGAN, Esq. At Glenarm, George SMITH HOLMES, Esq. At Glasslough, the Rev. Wm. Henry PRATT, Vicar of Donagh. In Lower Baggot Street, Dublin, in the 76th year of his age, Thomas CLARKE, Esq. At Monkstown, County Dublin, rather suddenly, Mrs. BEVAN, beloved wife of F. BEVAN, Esq., of Camage. Of scarlatina, aged 17 years, Eliza Jane, second daughter of the Rev. James BENNETT, Vicar of Fedamore. On the 11th ult., at Sandycove Terrace, Kingstown, Frances SOMERSET, beloved daughter of the Rev. T. B. BRADY, ?omgrany Rectory, County Clare. In Queen Street, Limerick, Mr. Wm. MAHER, second clerk, Excise Office, Custom House. At Clontarf, Julia, daughter of John GRAVES, Esq., Morrison's Island. In Dublin, Abigail, wife of Mr. Daniel O'CONNOR. At Hollymount, County Galway, Anne, wife of Thos. JACKSON, Esq. At Bantry, Hester Jane, wife of Mr. Wm. WALLACE, batten officer of Inland Revenue. At Glenarm, aged 68 years, Francis D. FINLAY, Esq., proprietor of the Northern Whig. At Ballynock, Tandragee, Alexander McCLURE, Esq. At Calcutta, Robert EAGER, Esq., aged 53 years. Killed at Aliahabad, Ensign Edward Morris SMITH, son of N.T. SMITH, Esq., of Spiddall, Galway. September 14, Mrs. Frances LOWRY, of George's Street, Dublin, after a protracted illness, aged 42 years. September 17 at No. 8 James' Street, East Dublin, John THOMAS, aged 16 years, after a long and painful illness. September 13 in Hardwicke Street, Dublin, aged 82 years, Frances FITZGERALD, Esq., formerlly of Galway. July 8, killed with her husband during the Indian mutiny, Sarah Frances, wife of Doctor W. JAMES and eldest daughter of the late William WEST, M.D., Dublin. July 12 at Bellary, Bengal, of fever, Frances, wife of Colonel POTE, of the 12th Royal Lancers, and daughter of the late Colonel GROGAN, of Leicester Street, Dublin. September 9 at Dungiven, County Londonderry, John Nevin CRAWFORD, Esq., eldest son of the late Rev. Oliver CRAWFORD, of Aughrane Lodge, Stewartstown. September 11, of disease of the liver, Frederick BOLTON, son of the late George KENNEDY, Esq., solicitor, Tullamore. September 11 at Kilmurtha Cottage, County Roscommon, in the 75th year of her age, Dorothea, relict of Mr. Owen BANAHAN. September 12 at Rathgranaher, County Mayo, Anne, wife of Thomas JACKSON, Esq. In Waterford, Patrick TOBIN, Esq., a gentleman endeared to all classes of his fellow citizens by his gentleness of disposition and the practical character of an unbounded charity.

Irish-American October 10, 1857 Marriages in Ireland On the 8th ult., by the Very Rev. Dr. CUSSEN, V.G., assisted by the bridegroom's uncle, Rev. J. RYAN, P.P., Templebadin and Nicker, Joseph Gubbins KIRBY, Esq., of Ballygordan Cottage, to Bridget, second daughter of the late Patrick MOLONY, of Tullabacca, County Limerick. In St. Werburgh's Dublin, Philip JOHNSTON Jr., Esq., of Belfast, to Hannah, daughter of John SIBTHORPE, Esq., Upper Leeson Street, Dublin. At Lismore, Major HAWLEY, Depot Battalion, to Annie, second daughter of J.B. GUMBLETON, Esq., of Fortwitham, County Waterford. At Kinsale, Mr. Francis DAUNT, to Sarah, daughter of Mr. Joseph HOSFORD, merchant. In Ballysillan Presbyterian Church, Mr. Alexander WETHERED, of Glasgow, to Miss Mary BRUCE, Wolfhill, Belfast. At Rathmelton, the Rev. A.M. MOORE, A.M., to Anna, daughter of Mr. David BRIGHAM. In Connor Presbyterian Church, George JACKSON, Esq., of Baltimore, U.S., to Elizabeth, daughter of Francis OWENS, Esq., of Castlegore. At St. Michael's Church, Limerick, the Rev. Wm. Francis SEYMOUR, A.M., Vicar of Cahernarry, son of the Rev. Joseph J. SEYMOUR, Incumbent of Ballymacward, County Galway, to Mary Jane, youngest daughter of the late William VANDERKLATE, Esq., J.P., Collector of Customs, Glasgow. At Nantenan Church, Usher William, second son of the late Henry ALCOCK, Esq., Wilton, County Wexford, to Aphra Belinda, daughter of Richard D. DAXON, Esq., Altavil, County Limerick. In Dublin, John Irwin WHITTY, Esq., of Ricketstown Hall, County Carlow, to Beatrice Eliza Massy, daughter of Robert BUTLER, Esq., of Arbour Hill, Tipperary. Mr. Lawrence P. LYONS, of Waterford, to Miss Elizabeth McCARTHY, of Canirciveen. At Old Ross Church, William ROBINSON, Esq., of Kilbreany, County Wexford, to Mary, daughter of the late Robert BURTCHELL, Esq., of Lacken, Kilkenny. At Thurles, Thomas HAYDEN, Esq., M.D., of Dublin, to Marianne, daughter of the late Thomas RYAN, Esq., Rosanna, Tipperary. At Ballinasloe, Mr. Richard PEARSON, of Dublin, to Sarah Anne, daughter of Benjamin REEVES, Esq. At Ballymacormack Church, George MEREDITH, Esq., Sub-Agent of the Bank of Ireland, Drogheda, to Lilly Anne, daughter of the late George BIRNEY, Esq., Assistant Commissary-General. At Derriaghy Church, Mr. James McKINSTERY, of Knocknadous, to Anne, daughter of Mr. James McBRIDE, of Mosside, Antrim. September 12 in St. Peter's Church, Dublin, James SAWYER, Esq., of London, to Maria Jane, second daughter of the late T. NOBLE, Esq., of Dublin. September 13 in the Roman Catholic Church of St. Paul's, Arran Quay, Dublin, by the Rev. Bernard DELANY, Maryanne, only daughter of the late Mr. John MARTIN, of New Church Street, to Mr. James MAHON, of Smithfield. September 9 at Booterstown Church, Thomas R. CRAWFORD, Esq., of Lower Gardiner Street, Dublin, to Janet Isabella, youngest daughter of the late James FERRIER, Esq., of Willow Park, County Dublin. September 15 in St. George's Church, Dublin, Ralph WALKER, Esq., of St. Louis, U.S., and of Athleague, County Roscommon, to Frances Jane, youngest daughter of the late Henry WILSON, Esq., of Amiens Street, Dublin. September 16 in St. Peter's Church, Dublin, Captain George MEYLER, 65th Regiment, to Annie, daughter and only child of the late John KELLY, Esq., of Armagh. September 17 in the Church of St. Andrew, Westland Row, Dublin, John Michael O'CALLAGHAN, Esq., of Ashgrove, Dundrum, youngest son of the late Richard O'CALLAGHAN, Esq., of Smythstown, County Meath, to Anna Mary, third daughter of James ROUGHAN, Esq., of Carregoal, County Clare. September 13 at Rolestown Church, by the Rev. John MURPHY, P.P., John H. ROONEY, of Trevitt, County Meath, to Ellen Mary, daughter of the late A. ARCHER, Esq., of Cotterstown, County Dublin. September 10 at Carnew, the Rev. E.F. LAWLER, curate of Ballycanew, to Eleanor Braddell, daughter of John BOYCE, Esq., of Baggott Street, Dublin. September 15 at Lisburn, the Rev. Henry STOBART, A.M., Queen's College, Oxford, to Annie, daughter of S.K. MULHOLLAND, Esq., of Egiantine, County Down.

Greetings All. Our action in Federal Court for an Application for Judicial Review is progressing. The deadline for the current stage of the litigation - Cross Examinations - is 15 May 2002. Our lawyer Lois Sparling is flying to Ottawa to cross examine Greg Eamon (on behalf of the National Archivist, Ian Wilson) and Mary Ledoux (on behalf of Ivan P. Fellegi, Chief Statistician of Canada)on 9 May 2002. Counsel from Justice Canada for the National Archivist and the Chief Statistician will be cross examining Professor Bill Waiser and myself, in Calgary, on 14 May 2002. While it was expected that other Applicants in Calgary would also be cross examined at this time, Counsel has indicated that if they have questions of any other Applicants, they will do so by way of written interrogatories. (Written questions for which Applicants would provide written answers.) General Counsel for John Reid, Information Commissioner, has asked to be removed as a Respondent in our action, and Lois has consented to that. The Information Commissioner is still conducting his own, separate investigation into Statistics Canada's refusal to release custody of the 1906 Census and does not want to be bound in any way by the decision of the Federal Court and so must not participate further in this action. Lois has heard nothing from the lawyers for the Privacy Commissioner, even though he initially responded with an Intent to Appear. The next step in the litigation is to serve and file our "Record". This record is made up of our Notice of Application, all our Affidavits and documentary exhibits, the Transcripts of Cross-Examinations and our Memorandum of Fact and Law. The theoretical deadline for this is 3 June 2002, although that could possibly be extended to 13 June 2002. Further updates on our Application for Judicial Review will be posted as progress requires. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

Thanks for all of the great info on what and how to get info on Irish Catholics in NYC. May 1, 2002. Maybe I will be able to find my ggreatgrandmother yet!!! Thanks again. Berta

Greetings All. As all should by now be aware, Senator Milne's Bill S-12, An Act to Amend the Statistics Act and National Archives of Canada Act (census records), was referred back to Committee to allow Dr. Ivan Fellegi (Chief Statistician of Canada) to appear before the Committee. His appearance was expected to be held on 17 April 2002, and the Bill was expected to be returned to the Senate not later than 30 April 2002. On 16 April I received notice from the Clerk of the Committee that the consideration of Bill S-12 was no longer scheduled for 17 April. No reason was given for the change in schedule. No indication was given as to when Dr. Fellegi would appear before the Committee and from other sources it was indicated that Senator Michael Kirby, Chair of the Committee would be seeking a short extension to the time by which the Bill must be returned to the Senate. Records of Hansard for the Senate debates of 25 April 2002 show that Senator Kirby made the following motion: "That notwithstanding the Order of the Senate adopted on March 25, 2002, the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, which was authorized to examine and report on Bill S-12, to amend the Statistics Act and the National Archives of Canada Act (census records), be empowered to present its final report no later than June 6, 2002." The motion was passed. The final day for sitting of the House of Commons, before the summer recess, is 21 June 2002. With a deadline of 6 June for return of Bill S-12 to the Senate, it would appear that we will not see a parliamentary resolution to the Access to Census issue before the fall at least. Even if S-12 was once again returned to the Senate without amendment, immediately passed third reading, and was referred to the House of Commons, there is insufficient time for it to go through all the steps necessary in the House before summer recess. What this all means is that we have not yet achieved our goal, and it will be necessary for us to continue to seek the support of our elected and appointed represenatives through our letters and petitions. The summer recess of Parliament will give many opportunities for us to arrange personal meetings with MPs in their constituency offices. I urge you to take full advantage of these opportunities. You do not have to do it alone -- take some friends along with you. As always, whether with letters, email, or personal meetings, I urge you to be polite and respectful. Request support - do not demand it. We are seeking support for our cause - do not be abusive or disrespectful because they have not yet given it. Happy Hunting. Gordon A. Watts gordon_watts@telus.net Co-Chair, Canada Census Committee Port Coquitlam, BC http://globalgenealogy.com/Census en français http://globalgenealogy.com/Census/Index_f.htm Permission to forward without notice is granted.

Hello Listers, Can some kind lister tell me in what enumeration district I would find 974 3rd Avenue in the 1880 census? If you know, can you tell me how you know? I'd like to be able to find these things myself but I'm not having any luck. Thank you all very much for your time and expertise. Sincerely, Barbara Burnett in CT

Good Afternoon, I truly appreciate any consideration given this request. Trying to locate the baptism papers of above subject....somewhere in New York City. Parents Patrick and Helen O'Brien who arrived in New York in 1885. They eventually settled on Eastern Long Island. Nice day. Colin

Take the number 7 Flushing bound train to 40th Street Lower St Station and get a cab from there ...It is much closer then Queens Plaza,,,I live quite close to the Cemetery, so I know that this is much closer. Peggy Gernon

Would SKS please do a look up in a city directory for Brooklyn, New York for my Gr. Grandparents, Hugh and Margaret HATTON? They came to America in 1922 and 1923 respectively and landded at Ellis Island. They made their home in Brooklyn. Kind regards, Shar/ USA SRogers47@webtv.net

Ed. I would give Calvary a call - 718-786-8000 and ask them the line . I believe it may be the E & F that might stop along Queens Blvd and the enter into the gate. Also, there is and old and new section and it is large! Find out which section your family is in. regards susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "buddyboy" <buddyboy@total1.net> To: <IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:28 AM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Subway > Is it possible to take the Subway from Manhattan to Calvary cemetery in Queens and not have to walk too far after getting there > > Ed S. > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Please keep your anti-virus software up-to-date and run frequent scans! > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

http://istg.rootsweb.com/1800/thornton18670513.html Recently someone was looking for Scanlan. Some were on the ship's list at the above site.

Dear Maureen et al, I am adding to what nancy Coleman has said- and she is right about all of it. As to churches and locations in Manhatten go to this site http://community-2.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS/ when the site comes on, scroll down to Helpful hints and click there you will find the list of RC churches in Manhattan, with locations and the dates the church was opened. Also if the church records are at another location. Thanks to Moira for providing this information via Charles Sullivan of the NYC list. Hopefully this will help some of you looking mainly in Manhattan. I have yet to see information on churches in the other boroughs. You may have to join other lists, Bronx, Brooklyn etc in order to ask questions regarding churches in the neighborhoods or near an address you have found. Also to add to Nancy's suggestions of calling the parish rectory/secretary. Not everyone who answers the phone in all the offices will speak English. This could cause a problem, but usually there is someone there on staff who wil have an idea of what you want and are looking for. Not everyone is registered in a directory either. Most diectories, a person ppain to be in, and many just couldn't afford to be in them unless they were in a business. I'm still checking some directories for relatives unfound since 1888. And th epeople may have lived at one address when info was put into a directory and moved by the time it came out. People moved around a lot back in those days, for one reason or another, sometimes lease , sometimes cost of rent and some places offering fre rent for a period of time to get occupants. Also until after 1900 not all births registered and you may never find out the exact year, or you may find information in subsequent places like census a age but don't take it as gospel, I have seen many descrepancies as to age, especially for females, for whatever reason. Also marriages not registered as far as city records, but would be at church, when you find the right one. Not everyone is on the brides list or grooms list, films that can be rented thru your local Family History Center. Check these out and remember if it's a comon name, you will have to do even more searching until you find the right one. As to death certificates, it will help if you have an idea of when the party died as to getting the right death certificate. In my case, I had no idea when my Gfather died ( before I was born) and went thru sending for 7 certificates before getting the right one. And death certificate information is only as good as who it was that gave the information, if it was a friend, or neighbor, even a relative may not have known all the right answers to the questions. This is a time consuming hobby, and takes a lot of investigation getting to the exact thing you want. It took me 35 years to find my grandparents place of birth ( England and Ireland) county that is, and still not sure of town. If you think trying to find people in NYC is too hard, don't bother to try Ireland. Next suggestion find a good researcher that knows what to do and hire them, pay the fee asked and sit back and wait, you won't have any self satisfaction this way but you will eventually have some information to check. Last bit of advice, take Nancy's advice. Good luck! Pat

Dear Ed: Yes, it's possible to get (close to) there by subway. But it will still be a hike away. No, it's not easy to get around there on foot. It's huge. Someone suggested a taxi, which is a good idea once you have the exact location of the grave(s) you want to visit. Make sure to stop into the office or call or write to them ahead of time and obtain the plot location (or an interment list) and a map of the cemetery(ies) - there are four, very large, sections to Calvary. You want to make sure you know where you want to go. You do not want to walk. If you can get to Queens Plaza by bus or subway you can probably catch a cab from there. Best regards. Nancy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "buddyboy" <buddyboy@total1.net> To: <IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:28 AM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] Subway > Is it possible to take the Subway from Manhattan to Calvary cemetery in Queens and not have to walk too far after getting there > > Ed S. > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Please keep your anti-virus software up-to-date and run frequent scans! > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Dear Mike: Fifteen months is a very short time! If it is the ship manifest you are looking for (you already have the ship name and date), you can access that by ordering the film at your local FHC. The manifest may or may not give you more detail. Probably not (in that time period), but it's worth a shot if you don't already have it. That will be the only "immigration" record you will find. He certainly wasn't here long enough to be naturalized so he probably did that in SF. In that early period, the natz don't usually give you much more than "Ireland" anyway, even if he did file his intent here. But, there is one source that you may have a slim chance of finding that information (from NY records) from. The Emigrant Savings Bank records begin in 1850 and since you have such a narrow window when he was here, you have a relatively short search period (an account established 1851-53). If he opened an account at that bank, the information could include the parish or townland name. That's a big "if" however. One of the difficulties will be to determine who your William O'Brien is. It is a very common name and there could be many. The only way to sort him out (if he's there at all) would be to look at all William O'Briens for that timeframe. Possible. You have the ship name and date, which will help because that information is usually a part of the record as well. So that could confirm whether you have found the right guy or not. Anyway, that would be my suggestion. There aren't many sources for that information in that time period. The usual ones are tombstones, obits, and these wonderful ESB records. I don't know where in your area they are available though. I assume you've already checked for a death notice and seen his grave? I assume you've done all of your census work? If they lived to 1900, that census should tell you how long they had been married. Or, from others you can guesstimate by the birth of the first child from the 1860 census for SF (if the first child lived to that point). You didn't mention whether he was Catholic or not. If so, he most likely did not have his marriage to Catherine registered (civil registration) except by the church. Which church would be the big question and where (what county). Again, the commonality of the name and no firm last name for Catherine creates a bit of a pickle. If they married in England before departing you could be in luck there. Even Catholics registered marriages with civil authorities in that time period. Like many Irish, he may have been living and working in England before he emigrated to the US. Those records should be available through your local FHC as well. But, with the marriage, your biggest problem is the uncertainty of Catherine's maiden name. I would try to pin that down before doing anything else along the lines of a marriage search. For instance, have you acquired all the death certificates for all of her children? I'm not clear about what may or may not be included in a CA death record, but for later periods, here in NY, they include the mother's maiden name. Obtain any and all marriage records of her children. They should have her maiden name... If birth records exist in your area for the period, the same. Or baptismal records. Don't trust just one source. Obtain as many documents as you can. You increase your chances of determining the information you seek with every bit. My two cents worth... :) Best regards. Nancy. Nancy Coleman NLColeman@worldnet.att.net NYC & LI Research Services www.GenealogyPro.com/ncoleman.html ncroots@worldnet.att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike O'Brien" <obrienm@netwiz.net> To: <IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:24 PM Subject: [IRISH-NYC] O'Brien Research > Hi all, > > I am new to this list and hope someone can point me in the right direction. > > My g-grandfather, William O'Brien arrived in New York on 1 Nov 1851 on the ship Nathaniel G. Weeks (London to New York, departed 25 Sept 1851). > > William stayed in new York for about 15 months and left New York to Panama on the ship SS United States on 5 Feb 1853. From there, on to San Francisco. > > I am trying to find immigration information upon his arrival in New York. I know he is a native of County Limerick, but I need to find the parish or town name he was from to continue my research in Ireland. It is also possible that he married his wife Catherine while in New York. Her maiden name is believed to be O'Brien also. William sailed to San Francisco alone and his wife may have traveled later. > > All of our records in San Francisco were destroyed in 1906 and all the information I have found on him and his family was through newspapers. > > If anyone can point me in the right direction for this information, I would greatly appreciate it. > > Mike O'Brien > obrienm@netwiz.net > Monterey, California > > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Do you miss receiving MISSING LINKS and SOMEBODY'S LINKS? If so, > just subscribe to: > http://www.petuniapress.com/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Dear Maureen: I don't have a copy of your original post so I don't know, specifically, what parish you are referring to with this problem. But, I can generally tell you that the parishes (if they still exist or if it one was merged with another) in NYC (New York Archdiocese and Brooklyn Diocese) do have possession of their own parish records. The archivist of the diocese DOES NOT. Unless the parish was disolved and not merged with another. I know the archivist for Brooklyn does have a consolidated inventory (but not the actual records) of that diocese. Now, this is not specifically for you Maureen, but in general it may help others out there... I think you mentioned TX, IL, CA... :) One of the reasons people have difficulty in NYC with church records is that they try to do this before they know where the family was when the event (baptism or marriage) happened. The KEY to research in NYC is: LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. Do not send out fifty letters hoping to get a "hit." It's a waste of postage and a waste of time. I know there are some who have succeeded this way but it's generally not a good idea. You MUST know where the family resided if you want to be successful. You cannot assume that they attended the same church every decade or even every year. Some families moved every single year (in the 19th century, usually on May 1, which was moving day - most leases expired on that day). So, it is critical, before you attempt to cover church records, and before you attempt to do immigration or naturalization records, that you do all of the basics, EVERY bit of it, which is (first and foremost) thorough census and directory work. Every census (city, state and federal) and directory (year) you can get your hands on. One or two will not be helpful in the long run. Next, make sure you cover any and all deaths that you know about with civil registration (Municipal Archives). This will give you some exact addresses. While you are at it, make sure you check for marriages and births. Irish Catholics (particularly if they were first generation immigrants) generally depended on the church for these rites and did not bother to register - but, you have to check anyway. One child may have been registered and the others not. You never know. Finding just one could give you another address. As a rule, deaths were required to be recorded in order to obtain a burial permit. So, that is one record you know should be there if the person died in NYC no matter what their ethnicity. Remember that NYC was only Manhattan and a part of the Bronx until 1898. Before that date, deaths in the other boroughs were recorded either at the city (Brooklyn) level or by the state (Queens, Staten Island, other Kings Co. towns, etc.) Next, check with the cemeteries (which will be noted on the death certificate or register). Get an interment list for the plot and then look up anyone else (death certificates) who may be buried in the plot. More addresses. Find out who bought the plot, when, and what the address was. Create a timeline by date and event, by address. Next, look for death notices. VERY often, a church may be mentioned. If it is in the timeframe of a birth of another child, you may have a hint of which church to contact for that specific baptism (but not necessarily for others). Obtain wills or letters of administration, particularly if you know they did own property. NOW. You have an event (birth or marriage). You have an address, or two, or twelve. :) Before you go writing to any given parish, plot these out on a map and see what churches were in the vicinity. Plot them all (that are within walking distance), not just one. Some were very ethnic in their congregation makeup so don't assume that the closest was the one they attended. Now, find out WHEN the various parishes were established and whether they are still in existance or whether they've merged with another parish. It will do you no good to contact a church for a baptism in 1875 if the parish wasn't even established until 1910. This information is available and if you cannot locate (many of the churches now have websites) it yourself, someone on this list could probably give you all of that information and a *selection* of churches that would be probable matches for you. You can rule many churches out by doing just this one step. Some of this advice may seem obvious to many people. But, I coach and help out many out-of-towners every day here in NYC and can tell you that these are probably the most common misconceptions about NYC research: One, you cannot assume that your ancestor stood still. They moved and moved often unless they owned property. No, this is not true for everyone. But, it is true for the overwhelming majority. Not everyone who lived in Brooklyn always lived in Brooklyn. :) Many (if not most) families migrated across the river from Manhattan or from Staten Island. Some from NJ or anywhere else you can imagine. Don't assume that they were always where you think they were. Two, your ancestor most likely (particularly if they were Irish Catholic) did not have an uncommon name. I wish I had a nickel for every Patrick Ryan, John Murphy, or Mary Sullivan that ever lived in NYC. I'd be a very rich woman. You have to be careful not to assume that the first person you find with that name is yours... you have to do "whole family" research. Three, don't try to do the hardest tasks before doing the easiest. Do the basics (censuses and directories at the very least) to determine and concretely establish which James McLaughlin or Catherine Burke is YOURS. Work from death back to birth as carefully as you can. Create that timeline. I probably do not need to say this but I will anyway :) ... this is a big town and there are hundreds of Catholic churches. They weren't all established at once and many closed or merged with other parishes as the neighborhood populations changed. You have to narrow down a time and a place for EACH life event. Also, marriages: usually the bride's parish. The first child very often may be baptised at the bride's old parish (even if she and her husband moved away from her parents). This isn't always true, but I'd say it's a 50-50 chance if you can't find the baptism near where the new couple resides. If it's a first born male who is named after the paternal grandfather, you may even want to check the groom's original parish (if you can establish that). Now, you've narrowed down the possibilities to one or two churches. You know both parishes existed in your timeframe. You know both parishes still exist. You have an address and phone number. CALL THEM. Find out the name of the church secretary. This is who you will most likely be dealing with, not the parish priest. Speak with her and let her know you will be writing her for this information but that you'd like to ask a few questions. Do not tell her your entire family history. Just say you are looking for "A" marriage or baptism c. 1882 (or whatever) and ask her what the customary donation would be to have this research done for you. Usually it's about $15-25. One request. Do not send a laundry list unless you want your inquiry ignored. Make it easy for her. Establish a (good) relationship. You may need her again. Do not make any calls or request during the high Holy weeks of Christmas or Easter or during their first communion and confirmation weeks. Be sensitive to what their calendar is like (they may be holding a funeral at the exact time that you call) and if she sounds too busy, ask her when a better time to call would be. Ask her if you should address your request to her or whether someone else handles such inquiries. Some parishes have volunteers who do this. Many are genealogists themselves or belong to a family history society but are parishoners themselves. Again, this all might sound like stupid advice, but you'd be amazed at how many folks get upset because they are under the impression that the church secretary is just sitting there waiting for genealogists to call. :) Remember that your request is just one of hundreds and that it is a very small part of her overall job. Write your letter and address it (inside) to her by name. Thank her for her help on the phone (even if she wasn't helpful, this may put your request at the top of the heap because she knows you will call again if she doesn't respond). Enclose your donation by check, not cash. In the note section of your check, record what you sent the donation for. i.e.: baptism certificate <name, date>. In your written request, make sure you give all the pertinant information: type of record (baptism, marriage), name of the person, date of the event, parents names if it's a baptism. It also may be helpful to her if you include the address where they lived at the time. If she doesn't have the record, she may be able to suggest who does. Enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope. (#10 size) If you are writing for a record that was for a parish that merged into another, make sure you mention the parish by name so she looks in the right register (each parish has their own sets of books even if they merged, prior to the merge). Give her ample time to do the work. Response time for the Municipal Archives is 4-6 weeks (but usually much faster than that). Allow at least that. If you receive your cashed check back from the bank but have not heard from her, then call and ask for her by name (if she doesn't answer the phone herself). Mention that you have your check back but that you haven't received a letter from her regarding the research. She may have a verbal answer for you but has not had time to get the letter out. Each parish is different. Some are much busier than others. Some respond better than others. And, a very few take the donation and do not respond at all. Keep that cancelled check and if that is the case, send a copy of it and THEN direct it to the parish priest along with a copy of your original request (don't forget to keep a copy of this!). But, most will eventually respond even if they do not find the record you are looking for. If you do your homework, you should just be dealing with two or three possible parishes. Expect to receive a "not found" from at least two of them! :) So, that's the skinny from NYC. I'm sure I missed something but others can fill in the gaps. Hope it's helpful. Good luck and best regards. Nancy. PS: If someone has been particularly helpful and you may need to contact them again, send a thank you note. She will appreciate it and it will keep your name in her mind as someone who appreciates what she does. I know, more dumb, obvious advice, but it works... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maureen" <maureen1024@yahoo.com> To: <IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [IRISH-NYC] Baptism Cert > The Archivist was an employee at the Archdiocesan Archives. > It was a NJ cousin who handled that part, and it was 10 or > more years ago. I just paid my share of the bill and got > my copies of all the info. Write to (or email) the Diocese > of Newark Archives at Seton Hall University in one of the > Oranges (South Orange?), and see what they can do for you. > > I told that story simply to illustrate the ease with which > records were obtained on one side of the Hudson River, and > the great difficulty everyone seems to have on the other > side of the river. This list needs to have the information > on Catholic Church records permanently displayed for all to > see and use, as a huge majority of Irish NYC was Roman > Catholic. > > Once and for all, let's see if someone of you who is in NYC > can get some definitive answers. The Archdiocese says "the > parishes" and the parishes say "we don't have any records > that old" ...... WELL ..... Who does have them? Where are > they? Can someone in NYC track down an answer that makes > some sense of this for all of us in Texas and Illinois and > California? Can someone start an email campaign to > Archdiocesan administrators to get some action to provide a > method for securing ancestors' records that would be a > win-win for the Archdiocese of NYC and for genealogy > researchers, too? > > Good luck, > Maureen > > --- Peggy Apostolos <peggy.apostolos@itss-inc.com> wrote: > > Maureen, > > > > Do you still happen to have the name and contact info for > > the professional > > researcher that you used to obtain these records? I have > > heard how hard it > > is to access them and it would be beneficial to used > > someone with experience. > > > > Thanks, > > Peggy Apostolos > > River Falls, WI > > > > At 09:05 AM 4/30/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > >In Hudson and > > >Bergen Counties in NJ the old records (1840s-1850s) are > > at > > >the Archdiocese of Newark Archives and you can pay an > > >Archivist by the hour plus copying. I think we got > > >everything for everybody (first communions, > > confirmations, > > >everything) for 1-1/2 hours work at $9 per hour plus > > >copying ..... A REAL STEAL! A professional archivist > > can > > >do in 1-1/2 hours what would take me many days and many > > >trips and many tolls! > > > > > >Maureen > > > > > > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > > Do you miss receiving MISSING LINKS and SOMEBODY'S LINKS? > > If so, > > just subscribe to: > > http://www.petuniapress.com/ > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > > genealogy records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ===== > Researching: Costello, Lynch, Raftree/Raftery, Doran, Cotter, Shannon, Sullivan, Gansberg, Bove, Zeidt/Seitz, VonAlleman/Wollerman, Amacher, Giefer, Fischer, Marlot, Koch, Hense, Jackler, Alvine, Shook, Shelly, Prichard, Tye, Daly, Early, Greene, Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Do you miss receiving MISSING LINKS and SOMEBODY'S LINKS? If so, > just subscribe to: > http://www.petuniapress.com/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

If I lived near Calvary NY I would offer a volunteer service to genealogy visitors coming from a distance (pick them up at the end of the line for public transportation and take them into the cemetery to gravesites). It could probably be a nice volunteer service for someone to offer on RAOGK. Or a way to earn a little extra pin money for a retiree! In fact, I will now offer that voluntary service for Chicago/Evanston Calvary, Des Plaines All Saints, St. Joseph Wilmette, Sacred Heart Northbrook, St. Mary's Highland Park, and Memorial Park Cemetery in Skokie, IL to anyone on this list who might have the need for it in the Chicago area. Save this email and let me know when you want to visit! --- Maureen <maureen1024@yahoo.com> wrote: > There are several different sections of Calvary. I > recall > my mother talking about going there on public transp. in > about 1930 and walking and walking forever, it seemed to > her. I would think it best to call there, ask someone to > locate your graves and give you on-site estimates of the > walk, and send you a map to the graves. Or see if you > can > take public transp. and then get a cab from the end of > the > public transp. to your gravesite, and wait for you, if > walking is a problem. > Maureen > > > --- buddyboy <buddyboy@total1.net> wrote: > > Is it possible to take the Subway from Manhattan to > > Calvary cemetery in Queens and not have to walk too far > > after getting there > > > > Ed S. > > > > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > > Please keep your anti-virus software up-to-date and run > > frequent scans! > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > > genealogy records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ===== > Researching: Costello, Lynch, Raftree/Raftery, Doran, > Cotter, Shannon, Sullivan, Gansberg, Bove, Zeidt/Seitz, > VonAlleman/Wollerman, Amacher, Giefer, Fischer, Marlot, > Koch, Hense, Jackler, Alvine, Shook, Shelly, Prichard, > Tye, Daly, Early, Greene, Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Please visit the list website: > http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com > It is a work in progress. Thank you for your patience! > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > ===== Researching: Costello, Lynch, Raftree/Raftery, Doran, Cotter, Shannon, Sullivan, Gansberg, Bove, Zeidt/Seitz, VonAlleman/Wollerman, Amacher, Giefer, Fischer, Marlot, Koch, Hense, Jackler, Alvine, Shook, Shelly, Prichard, Tye, Daly, Early, Greene, Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com

There are several different sections of Calvary. I recall my mother talking about going there on public transp. in about 1930 and walking and walking forever, it seemed to her. I would think it best to call there, ask someone to locate your graves and give you on-site estimates of the walk, and send you a map to the graves. Or see if you can take public transp. and then get a cab from the end of the public transp. to your gravesite, and wait for you, if walking is a problem. Maureen --- buddyboy <buddyboy@total1.net> wrote: > Is it possible to take the Subway from Manhattan to > Calvary cemetery in Queens and not have to walk too far > after getting there > > Ed S. > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Please keep your anti-virus software up-to-date and run > frequent scans! > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > ===== Researching: Costello, Lynch, Raftree/Raftery, Doran, Cotter, Shannon, Sullivan, Gansberg, Bove, Zeidt/Seitz, VonAlleman/Wollerman, Amacher, Giefer, Fischer, Marlot, Koch, Hense, Jackler, Alvine, Shook, Shelly, Prichard, Tye, Daly, Early, Greene, Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com

Is it possible to take the Subway from Manhattan to Calvary cemetery in Queens and not have to walk too far after getting there Ed S.

The Archivist was an employee at the Archdiocesan Archives. It was a NJ cousin who handled that part, and it was 10 or more years ago. I just paid my share of the bill and got my copies of all the info. Write to (or email) the Diocese of Newark Archives at Seton Hall University in one of the Oranges (South Orange?), and see what they can do for you. I told that story simply to illustrate the ease with which records were obtained on one side of the Hudson River, and the great difficulty everyone seems to have on the other side of the river. This list needs to have the information on Catholic Church records permanently displayed for all to see and use, as a huge majority of Irish NYC was Roman Catholic. Once and for all, let's see if someone of you who is in NYC can get some definitive answers. The Archdiocese says "the parishes" and the parishes say "we don't have any records that old" ...... WELL ..... Who does have them? Where are they? Can someone in NYC track down an answer that makes some sense of this for all of us in Texas and Illinois and California? Can someone start an email campaign to Archdiocesan administrators to get some action to provide a method for securing ancestors' records that would be a win-win for the Archdiocese of NYC and for genealogy researchers, too? Good luck, Maureen --- Peggy Apostolos <peggy.apostolos@itss-inc.com> wrote: > Maureen, > > Do you still happen to have the name and contact info for > the professional > researcher that you used to obtain these records? I have > heard how hard it > is to access them and it would be beneficial to used > someone with experience. > > Thanks, > Peggy Apostolos > River Falls, WI > > At 09:05 AM 4/30/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >In Hudson and > >Bergen Counties in NJ the old records (1840s-1850s) are > at > >the Archdiocese of Newark Archives and you can pay an > >Archivist by the hour plus copying. I think we got > >everything for everybody (first communions, > confirmations, > >everything) for 1-1/2 hours work at $9 per hour plus > >copying ..... A REAL STEAL! A professional archivist > can > >do in 1-1/2 hours what would take me many days and many > >trips and many tolls! > > > >Maureen > > > > ==== IRISH-NEW-YORK-CITY Mailing List ==== > Do you miss receiving MISSING LINKS and SOMEBODY'S LINKS? > If so, > just subscribe to: > http://www.petuniapress.com/ > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > ===== Researching: Costello, Lynch, Raftree/Raftery, Doran, Cotter, Shannon, Sullivan, Gansberg, Bove, Zeidt/Seitz, VonAlleman/Wollerman, Amacher, Giefer, Fischer, Marlot, Koch, Hense, Jackler, Alvine, Shook, Shelly, Prichard, Tye, Daly, Early, Greene, Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com